How old is the Hongmoon School?

[LunaBlood]

Okay, this is a bit confusing to me, and I'm not sure how accurate this information is. I did a rundown of noticeable things throughout the Blade and Soul game that might pinpoint how long the school was open, but there is no real clarification unless certain things are figured out. First, here is was what I currently got.

 

*Jiwan found Jinsoyun as a child, but it's not really clearly stated how old she was when Jiwan found her. I can only guess that she was not a teenager at that time and was only a young girl around the age of 7-10 years old, give or take some*

*Jiwan trained Jinsoyun, but it's not really clearly stated how long she trained her. From what we do know, it clearly looks like Jinosyun is roughly around 14-16 years old, give or take some during the events on Jiwan's Peak*

*Master Hong apparently opened the school sometime after the events on Jiwan's Peak*

*Dochun at some point trained under Master Hong before he left, but it's not clearly stated how old he was at that time*

*We saw Dochun holding Namsoyoo as a baby when he was a young man, and at that time, he had black hair*

*In the current timeline, we see that Dochun is older with white hair, and Namsoyuu is all grown up, but it's not clearly stated just how old Namsoyuu is. I'm guessing that she is probably around 14-16, give or take some*

 

Which leads me to wonder if the Hongmoon school was open for around 16 years or more. What do you think? How long do you think the Hongmoon School was open, and how long do you think the previous events took place?

Edited October 29, 2020 by LunaBlood

[JoannaRamira]

There unfortunately no real indication :X  as the game story itself give no real time reference.

[LunaBlood]

6 minutes ago, JoannaRamira said:

There unfortunately no real indication :X  as the game story itself give no real time reference.

I already know that, but I'm going by certain events that are seen. There clearly was a time frame when things took place. That is evident with the fact Dochon found Namsoyuu as a baby, but in the current timeline, she is all grown up. Which means that time has passed. So I'm going by these current events and descriptions to get a general idea of how much time went by. Like for example? How old would someone say Namsoyuu appears to be? 14... 15... 16... 18? Well, if you can figure that out, then you could add a few years onto that to figure out just how long the school has been opened. I'm guessing that Dochun spent a good two or more years training under Master Hong, which means that you would need to add roughly two or more years onto how old Namsoyuu is. That should give you a rough estimation of how long the school was open.

 

Clearly, the school had to have been open for a while as Dochun was young when he was taught there. That is evident because he trained at the school before becoming a Royal Stratus Guard to Stratus Empress Namsolyn. At the time he became a Royal Stratus Guard, Dochun was seen with black hair instead of his current white, not to mention he looks much older. He looks to be roughly around his 40's or 50's give or take some.

[StrykersGaming]

You get a sense of this through the story, especially when you're dealing with the Snapjaws and what they are doing. Furthermore, when you do the story dealing with the Aransu School, Zulia, and Jinsoyun, you can about piece it together. Likewise, when you play your part as Mushin you get the sense that he and the other Guardians were immortal; however, they could be killed. Mushin lived as a royal prince in the Naru Kingdom. Master Hong had his school prior to them finding Jinsoyun. Which was during the time of the second known Divine Mandate Ceremony. I get the feeling that Soyun is in her late forties to mid fifties if not a bit older but looks much younger. She a Yun, who, IIRC are long lived beings. My belief is the Hongmoon School is at least 200 years old if not more as its been stated its has a long and storied history and is renown.

[StrykersGaming]

6 minutes ago, LunaBlood said:

How old would someone say Namsoyuu appears to be? 14... 15... 16... 18?

No, I'd put her around 8 to 10. She's a Yun and tall for her age. By the time of the 3rd Divine Mandate, she's somewhere between late forties to mid-fifties yet looks young because of her race.

 

[StrykersGaming]

Also, when Cricket is given the Book of Hongmoon, she's been there 3 years. So she's around 16 to 18.

[LunaBlood]

27 minutes ago, StrykerGaming said:

You get a sense of this through the story, especially when you're dealing with the Snapjaws and what they are doing. Furthermore, when you do the story dealing with the Aransu School, Zulia, and Jinsoyun, you can about piece it together. Likewise, when you play your part as Mushin you get the sense that he and the other Guardians were immortal; however, they could be killed. Mushin lived as a royal prince in the Naru Kingdom. Master Hong had his school prior to them finding Jinsoyun. Which was during the time of the second known Divine Mandate Ceremony. I get the feeling that Soyun is in her late forties to mid fifties if not a bit older but looks much younger. She a Yun, who, IIRC are long lived beings. My belief is the Hongmoon School is at least 200 years old if not more as its been stated its has a long and storied history and is renown.

Actually, Master Hong created the Hongmoon school after Jinsoyun was found, not before. That information can be seen below.

 

 

"Thirty years ago, Prince Sogun, with Yura's help, attempted the ancient Divine Mandate Ritual in order to have the Heavens proclaim him as rightful emperor. Yura ensured that the ritual was botched, however, as it was part of a larger plot to introduce darkness into the world again. A Dark Gate opened within Highland Central with Dark Chi and demons flooding into the Earthen Realm.

The Sacred Beasts of Moonwater Plains came to contain the darkness within the city. By the time the Four Guardians arrived, the city was beyond saving. They worked together to seal the darkness into the Sealed Palace as a temporary solution to stem the flow of Dark Chi.

Afterward, the Guardians went their separate ways. Hong Sokyun founded the Hongmoon School at Heaven's Reach. Jiwan took in her first pupil, Jinsoyun. Iksanun continued his travels. All the while the darkness inside Mushin grew."

 

That means Jiwan found Jinsoyun roughly around thirty years in the past, placing her age at around 37-40 years old in the current timeline. However, we don't know exactly how many years Jiwan trained Jinosyun before the events on Jiwan's Peak. Jinsoyun appeared to be around the age of 7-10 years old or a young girl when Jiwan found her. When the events on Jiwan's Peak took place, Jinsoyun looked to be around 14-16 years old, give or take some. That means the school was around for nearly 30 years, but after the events on Jiwan's Peak, it was around for only roughly another 20+ years. This means that Dochun had to have joined probably around 20+ years ago.

 

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by LunaBlood

[LunaBlood]

14 minutes ago, StrykerGaming said:

No, I'd put her around 8 to 10. She's a Yun and tall for her age. By the time of the 3rd Divine Mandate, she's somewhere between late forties to mid-fifties yet looks young because of her race.

This makes no sense at all. It doesn't take someone 8 or 10 years to go from black hair to white hair, and Dochun was clearly a young man with black hair when he found Namsoyuu as a baby. So how do you figure that into the equation, huh?

Edited October 29, 2020 by LunaBlood

[LunaBlood]

14 minutes ago, StrykerGaming said:

Also, when Cricket is given the Book of Hongmoon, she's been there 3 years. So she's around 16 to 18.

That is inaccurate. Dochun never clearly stated that Namsoyuu has been there for 3 years. What he did state is that he has an adopted daughter named Namsoyuu that has been with them for quite some time. No time or years was ever mentioned.

[MassiveEgo]

18 hours ago, LunaBlood said:

That is inaccurate. Dochun never clearly stated that Namsoyuu has been there for 3 years. What he did state is that he has an adopted daughter named Namsoyuu that has been with them for quite some time. No time or years was ever mentioned.

StrykerGaming says Cricket has been in the hongmoon school for three years, not Namsoyoo. At least try to read...

My estimation is that Namsoyoo is between 21 and 28. That would give Dochun enough time to turn into an old man, given Namsoyoo was an infant when Yunma Khan entrusted her to him..

[StrykersGaming]

On 10/29/2020 at 6:01 PM, LunaBlood said:

Actually, Master Hong created the Hongmoon school after Jinsoyun was found, not before. That information can be seen below.

 

 

"Thirty years ago, Prince Sogun, with Yura's help, attempted the ancient Divine Mandate Ritual in order to have the Heavens proclaim him as rightful emperor. Yura ensured that the ritual was botched, however, as it was part of a larger plot to introduce darkness into the world again. A Dark Gate opened within Highland Central with Dark Chi and demons flooding into the Earthen Realm.

The Sacred Beasts of Moonwater Plains came to contain the darkness within the city. By the time the Four Guardians arrived, the city was beyond saving. They worked together to seal the darkness into the Sealed Palace as a temporary solution to stem the flow of Dark Chi.

Afterward, the Guardians went their separate ways. Hong Sokyun founded the Hongmoon School at Heaven's Reach. Jiwan took in her first pupil, Jinsoyun. Iksanun continued his travels. All the while the darkness inside Mushin grew."

 

That means Jiwan found Jinsoyun roughly around thirty years in the past, placing her age at around 37-40 years old in the current timeline. However, we don't know exactly how many years Jiwan trained Jinosyun before the events on Jiwan's Peak. Jinsoyun appeared to be around the age of 7-10 years old or a young girl when Jiwan found her. When the events on Jiwan's Peak took place, Jinsoyun looked to be around 14-16 years old, give or take some. That means the school was around for nearly 30 years, but after the events on Jiwan's Peak, it was around for only roughly another 20+ years. This means that Dochun had to have joined probably around 20+ years ago.

 

 

Can you provide a citation as to where this came from? Is this a cannon source or something a written as a fan's interpretation? If you listened to Master Hong when he talks about his school at the very beginning of starting a new character, he states "Long ago..." about the founding of the school and how it became renown and how many flocked to study the Hongmoon Way. While "long ago" is subjective it does imply that it was greater than 30 years. It can be interpreted as many decades or even a few centuries. I'd like to see this information you're quoting.

[StrykersGaming]

On 10/29/2020 at 6:06 PM, LunaBlood said:

This makes no sense at all. It doesn't take someone 8 or 10 years to go from black hair to white hair, and Dochun was clearly a young man with black hair when he found Namsoyuu as a baby. So how do you figure that into the equation, huh?

What are you talking about? I was referring to Jinsoyun, no Dochun, nor Namsoyuu. When Jiwan found and saved her, she was clearly a pre-teen (8 - 10 or even 11 - 12). She was clearly undeveloped as a female at that time.

Edit: I quoted the wrong statement, so the fault is mine. However, to answer your question of Namsoyuu's age, I'd put her age between 20 to 25. She's clearly a young woman and not some teen.

Edited October 31, 2020 by StrykerGaming

[IcyQuasar]

In the journal -- Prologue: Paradise Lost  Chapter 1: Awakenings. It says Dochun left 25 years ago from Heavens Reach to become a soldier. So the Hongmoon school is over 25 years old.  Or look at the wiki. https://bladeandsoul.gamepedia.com/Hong_Sokyun

[StrykersGaming]

22 hours ago, IcyQuasar said:

In the journal -- Prologue: Paradise Lost  Chapter 1: Awakenings. It says Dochun left 25 years ago from Heavens Reach to become a soldier. So the Hongmoon school is over 25 years old.  Or look at the wiki. https://bladeandsoul.gamepedia.com/Hong_Sokyun

Okay. After reading that and a few other important entries, I'm finding several continuity issues, blaring ones too. Just in Act X the biggest one deals with Jinsoyun's beginnings. In her write up it states she lived in Highland Central which is in the Moonwater plains. In Act X it shows she grew up elsewhere (where Warp Citadel is located). This is where the first Divine Mandate took place and involved the Blade of Divine Truth (IIRC the name). The one that happened in Highland Central, the second Divine Mandate, had no anchor and the reason it failed.

For cannon purposes this changes Jinsoyun's story as the most recent information released is cannon and literally RetCons the original. In ACT IX, this involves the Aransu School. When Cricket, Lusung, and her pupil go to the champion challenge, all participants, including Sun (the master of the Aransu school) and the future Emperor of the Talus Dominion, make mention on how Hongmoon school has a long and story history of having the best pupils. While this is a dream of sorts Cricket is stuck in, the information from it concerning lore is cannon. It literally screws up the lore continuity wise. Even if it is a dream, what's said is considered cannon.

Finally, this is Wiki. It appears that any and everyone has access to editing. Yes, it does. I just tested it and it allowed me into the editing window. Therefore...what is there really cannot be relied upon but taken with a grain of salt. If this wiki was only accessible by official Blade & Soul personnel or their designated people for upkeep, it would be a different story. I just read through Mushin's, Master Hong, and Jinsoyun's profiles. They mesh in some places and others kind fit like a square peg in a round hole. Just reading through those, based on knowledge gained from playing through the main story a 6 times, something doesn't feel right about the information provided. Mushin, Jiwan, Iksanun, and Master Hong fought together for "thousands of years" becoming the 4 Guardians of the Earthen Realm?

This is the first paragraph of Master Hong's profile, "Thousands of years ago, at the height of the Naryu Empire, he fought alongside Mushin, Jiwan, and Iksanun, to defeat the demons and prevent Dark Chi from overwhelming the Earthen Realm. The Heavens selected him and his fellow warriors as the Four Guardians, charged with keeping the Earthen Realm at peace." And Hong after all this time decides to form his school after the Highland Central Divine Mandate? This doesn't sound right at all. A master for "thousands of years?" He's an immortal...think about that.

The continuity of this game is questionable at best for when, what, where, how, and the actual time period. NCSOFT has writers RetConning at best or doing their own lore without consulting written cannon at worse. This is egregious writing and development at its worse. I bet if I spent some real research time in this, I can find all kind of continuity holes from beginning to end.

Edited November 1, 2020 by StrykerGaming

[LunaBlood]

On 11/1/2020 at 12:50 AM, StrykerGaming said:

Okay. After reading that and a few other important entries, I'm finding several continuity issues, blaring ones too. Just in Act X the biggest one deals with Jinsoyun's beginnings. In her write up it states she lived in Highland Central which is in the Moonwater plains. In Act X it shows she grew up elsewhere (where Warp Citadel is located). This is where the first Divine Mandate took place and involved the Blade of Divine Truth (IIRC the name). The one that happened in Highland Central, the second Divine Mandate, had no anchor and the reason it failed.

For cannon purposes this changes Jinsoyun's story as the most recent information released is cannon and literally RetCons the original. In ACT IX, this involves the Aransu School. When Cricket, Lusung, and her pupil go to the champion challenge, all participants, including Sun (the master of the Aransu school) and the future Emperor of the Talus Dominion, make mention on how Hongmoon school has a long and story history of having the best pupils. While this is a dream of sorts Cricket is stuck in, the information from it concerning lore is cannon. It literally screws up the lore continuity wise. Even if it is a dream, what's said is considered cannon.

Finally, this is Wiki. It appears that any and everyone has access to editing. Yes, it does. I just tested it and it allowed me into the editing window. Therefore...what is there really cannot be relied upon but taken with a grain of salt. If this wiki was only accessible by official Blade & Soul personnel or their designated people for upkeep, it would be a different story. I just read through Mushin's, Master Hong, and Jinsoyun's profiles. They mesh in some places and others kind fit like a square peg in a round hole. Just reading through those, based on knowledge gained from playing through the main story a 6 times, something doesn't feel right about the information provided. Mushin, Jiwan, Iksanun, and Master Hong fought together for "thousands of years" becoming the 4 Guardians of the Earthen Realm?

This is the first paragraph of Master Hong's profile, "Thousands of years ago, at the height of the Naryu Empire, he fought alongside Mushin, Jiwan, and Iksanun, to defeat the demons and prevent Dark Chi from overwhelming the Earthen Realm. The Heavens selected him and his fellow warriors as the Four Guardians, charged with keeping the Earthen Realm at peace." And Hong after all this time decides to form his school after the Highland Central Divine Mandate? This doesn't sound right at all. A master for "thousands of years?" He's an immortal...think about that.

The continuity of this game is questionable at best for when, what, where, how, and the actual time period. NCSOFT has writers RetConning at best or doing their own lore without consulting written cannon at worse. This is egregious writing and development at its worse. I bet if I spent some real research time in this, I can find all kind of continuity holes from beginning to end.

The wiki is the only real source and knowledge that we got, as there is no actual technical information, so it can only be speculated. And 25 years is plenty of time for Dochun to go from black hair to white hair somewhere in his 40's or 50's. That would place the timeframe you mentioned of Namsoyuu to be about correct. I can't remember exactly, but didn't it mention in the game during the Haunted Necropolis act that the Four Guardians' previous events took place 30 years ago? I think it actually mentions how much time passed. That was when Jinsoyun was found before she was trained by Jiwan, which was probably only around 5+ years, give or take depending on age. 

 

Also, the story, in general, is a bit messed up and has flaws, or so I hear many players say. In any case, I got my information from the wiki, which I believe is somewhat accurate. Especially considering it stats this for Chi.

 

Chi

Often somewhat mistakenly referred to as “Pure Chi”, this strange energy fuels and is fueled by all living beings. The earth, the air, the water – all have chi that courses powerfully through every aspect of their existence. Living creatures have chi as well, which is directly related to their health and martial prowess. The true martial artists of the world have mastered their inner focus to perform stunning feats and demonstrate otherworldly powers. Most anyone can Windwalk, but few bear the particular skills to harness the flow of chi in the world necessary to control Dragon Pulses. These natural wellsprings of chi can be manipulated, allowing a powerful martial artist to bend space and time, traveling long distances in an instant.

With years of training, martial artists have developed unique forms of combat that utilize their chi in extraordinary fashions. Their bodies harden against damage or heal rapidly with only a bit of food and meditation. They may channel their chi through ordinary weapons to make them even more deadly, or connect their own energies into those of the natural world to commune with Familiars or the very elements. Some legendary warriors have even been able to defy death itself through their mastery of chi. If there are any true limits to what could be achieved with the power of chi, they have yet to be discovered.

 

Focus

Focus is the chi that is used by martial artists to fuel their various combative skills. Since everyone has only a limited amount of chi at any given time, they must be careful to not overextend themselves. Focus can be replenished with food, rest, and for some classes, through combat. 

Different classes utilize their chi either internal or externally. Blade Masters, Force Masters, and Summoners externalize their chi to enforce change on the world, while Destroyers, Kung Fu Masters, and Assassins internalize their chi to increase their power.

 

Divine Chi

Beyond the Earthen Realm rests the unseen Divine Realm, where the pure-hearted spirits and enlightened beings watch over the world. Their chi is pristine and mighty, bearing a power that echoes through the ages. The royal family of the Stratus Empire gained the blessings of the Divine beings in ancient times and thus all its descendants bear a hint of that Divine Chi within them, passing from generation to generation.

It is not a power that is easily gained though. Few mortal beings ever bear the Divine Realm’s energy within them and even fewer master it. But those who do become enlightened enough to embrace Divine Chi stand ready to face the darkness without fear, for the wicked forces of the Dark Realm burn like kindling in the face of such radiance.

 

Dark Chi

For every light, there is a shadow. Dark Chi is a malevolent poison that spews from the Dark Realm. Demons spread it whenever they are able, using its raw power to corrupt both the earth and its people. Anything that bears chi within it runs the risk of being tainted by this horrid energy. Normal civilians stand no chance against it as their bodies die and transform into Demons. Powerful martial artists may fend off the effects of Dark Chi for a time through intense focus, but they will eventually succumb to its toxic influence as the darkness seeps into their mind. Truly powerful beings may still fall under its influence and transform into nightmarish monstrosities.

 

Demonic Pacts

Worse still are those unsavory souls who actively seek out Dark Chi, drawn to its alluring power. By focusing on their rage, greed, or other earthly vices that keep them from enlightenment, they try to use the Dark Chi to their own ends. Manipulative Demons seek out these evil souls, promising them immortality or endless fonts of power so that they further spread their chaotic influence. While the baleful energy does indeed grant inhuman prowess, it is only temporary. The Dark Chi is a starving animal that will inevitably devour them, body and soul, as it seeks to spread across all the realms.

 

Mark of the Black Rose

When Dark Chi is forced upon a person, they carry the Mark of the Black Rose. Those with strong chi are able to resist the effects of the Dark Chi, but it will continue to flare up from time to time. These individuals have a distortion in their spiritual energy, making them even more susceptible to influence by Dark Chi and allowing demons and Dark Chi users to dominate their minds. They may even partially transform into demons as their bodies warp into horrifying states. In the end, they will die both a painful physical and spiritual death as they transform fully into a demon. The only possible way to avoid this fate is by learning the Way of Enlightenment, a complex method of purifying the soul. Unfortunately, this art has been lost to time and only Madun the Mistwalker one of the Eight Master has been the only person to use this method to free himself from the Mark of the Black Rose.

 

This information is pretty reliable based on what we see and witness throughout the gameplay, so it does have some truth to what it does say. Although, I do wish there was a bit more information about the "Mark of the Black Rose" as I'm curious whether it is an open wound with blood spilling out or what it is exactly. All we know is the information that we witnessed and heard, which isn't really much.