What everyone's thinking?

[Azareel6]

@Hime & Devs

 

Was thinking the game could be so much better if NC would stop milking people for every cent they have and make all items easier to earn especially if you subscribe and are already supporting the game. That way you have more people subscribing and earn money because it's a good game?!?! A few of the top whales paying 100s or even 1000s of dollars isn't better than thousands or tens of thousands of people paying for a subscription monthly. F10 items should be a boost for people if they want to spend more real money on the game rather than a necessity if you want to make any progress. 

This event is a perfect example. Yet another cash grab and the third time we've seen this hongsil treasure draw in a 6 month period. I understand companies are there to make money. But did you forget there's a pandemic going on and millions aren't even working.

 

This isn't a rip fest on NC because I've still been enjoying the game. But there's so many negative changes over the past few months I feel some need to be mentioned.

 

• soulstones - taken out of Tower of Infinity and only obtainable in arena or soul stone plains..... why???

 

• moonstones - only obtainable in battlegrounds. ( Feels like it's done to keep that content alive for the players that want to do it. Which just let's them destroy those that don't. Then it makes them complain that those people are in there. Like somehow they have a choice.)

 

• event item limitations - Can only purchase 5 or 10 a week of certain items. What does it matter how much someone earns if they are putting time in the game. Plus they're account bound so it makes even less sense.

 

• Ascension orbs - As if it wasn't bad enough that CS and HM was updated awhile ago and because of that everybody's white orbs were antiqued with no compensation. Some bought hundreds of those weeks before they were taken away. Now we dont even have a way to earn items to enter dungeons that require orbs to enter? We dont even do Karri in CS anymore bc it's not worth wasting the orb.

 

• rumor mill - MSP is the only place you can earn evolved stones efficiently. But the rumor going around is that MSP is being increased and evolved stones are being removed. Any clarification on this? Thanks for responding in advance

[ImoutoMaster]

vor 15 Stunden schrieb Azareel6:

• soulstones - taken out of Tower of Infinity and only obtainable in arena or soul stone plains..... why???

Sorry but you get more than enough of them from PVE aswell i have 15K soul stone crystals and even if you actully need Soul stones just buy them off F5 its not like you are forced to do PVP for them. Also Soul stone plains can be done solo nowdays just farm it if you really dont wanna use F5. 

vor 15 Stunden schrieb Azareel6:

• moonstones - only obtainable in battlegrounds. ( Feels like it's done to keep that content alive for the players that want to do it. Which just let's them destroy those that don't. Then it makes them complain that those people are in there. Like somehow they have a choice.)

Its the only way of earning some money off 6v6. People gear up so they need to be able to get something worth the time spent. PVE only people complain since 2016 they are not getting everything for free while PVP Players always had a hard time getting somewhere without PVE. 

vor 15 Stunden schrieb Azareel6:

• event item limitations - Can only purchase 5 or 10 a week of certain items. What does it matter how much someone earns if they are putting time in the game. Plus they're account bound so it makes even less sense.

Events have been ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ since 2 years maybe ? Last event i actully enjoyed was when you ran some event dungeon and got an item you could go fishing with which gave you sacred vials or Divine Grace stone etc. Stuff thats actully usefull but nowdays you either get VT Gear from Events or Vials which are not worth farming cause you need to much event currency for them. @Moderators VT Gear is so outdated you will have it on day one after you reached lvl 60 atleast give em TT gear. 

vor 15 Stunden schrieb Azareel6:

• Ascension orbs - As if it wasn't bad enough that CS and HM was updated awhile ago and because of that everybody's white orbs were antiqued with no compensation. Some bought hundreds of those weeks before they were taken away. Now we dont even have a way to earn items to enter dungeons that require orbs to enter? We dont even do Karri in CS anymore bc it's not worth wasting the orb.

I have more than enough orbs. Ever time i wanna enter HM i have an orb thats cause NC give out alot of them for free on a regular basis and even if you miss this you get some fragments every single day for free. 

vor 15 Stunden schrieb Azareel6:

• rumor mill - MSP is the only place you can earn evolved stones efficiently. But the rumor going around is that MSP is being increased and evolved stones are being removed. Any clarification on this? Thanks for responding in advance

To my knowledge MSP is getting buffed and they throw in ET Items and some new item everyone will need. In my oppinion MSP is one of the most boring dungeons/raids in this game and i really hate to see they are actully buffing it and force us to keep running this instead of giving us a new place. If they removed that you need to fill the xp thingie to spawn the boss i would love MSP but thats so boring. 

[Grimoir]

1 hour ago, ImoutoMaster said:

To my knowledge MSP is getting buffed and they throw in ET Items and some new item everyone will need. In my oppinion MSP is one of the most boring dungeons/raids in this game and i really hate to see they are actully buffing it and force us to keep running this instead of giving us a new place. If they removed that you need to fill the xp thingie to spawn the boss i would love MSP but thats so boring. 

Agree with everything else, just to add to this instead of MSP they should rework the old 24 Man instances of POH and BSH. would be hell of a lot better than MSP and Naryu Sanctum (god i have no clue what on earth made them think of reworking that one)

[NorbertTheOpinionated]

I think it helps to understand NCsoft's business model and set up.

 

By the way, to be clear I am NOT ragging too hard on B&S west, the NA publisher group because, they don't have that much power when everything they want to do has to get approved by Korea first.

 

First of all consider this:

 

 

 

Now, also consider that if you go into a department store and look at a box on a shelf with an item in it, the box is going to have advertising on it right? It is going to tell you features and dimensions and functions of the product inside. Now understand that advertising on the box is legally binding. If they lie about it on the box, it is false advertising.

 

Now consider how NCsoft advertised this game to us originally before it was "out of the box:"

https://www.bladeandsoul.com/uk/news/business-model-revealed/

 

This is very significant because this isn't just some random thing that NCsoft said at some point. This is how they originally advertised this game to get it popular and to get people playing it "hooked" in the first place. Now consider where we are.

 

Next, let's look at how NCsoft's business model works if we are "painting with a wide brush" so to say. This is my interpretation of course, and I am going to use a comparison too. You know how, in the united states the top 20% pay most of the taxes and the bottom 50% pay very little in taxes by comparison to the top 20% right? NCsoft's business model is very similar. Most of B&S's funding comes from the top 20% of players. "Whales" if you like.

 

This creates a certain sentiment though: the company cares WAY more about what the top 20% thinks since, if those people leave, the game loses most of its funding. Look at how NCsoft brings out new content, and only the most geared people can partake in it. Who are the most geared people? The whales right? Why are they the most geared? It is because NCsoft's difficulty curve is intentionally designed such that grinding to keep up with the whales is darn near impossible. There aren't enough hours in the day.

 

Therefore, it could be said that when NCsoft releases new content, "Current content is for paying customers only." If you don't pay to be powerful enough to partake, you will have to wait until NCsoft "Adjusts" the costs of upgrading until you can partake in that content, but by that time there will be newer content, and probably even newer content on top of that, and maybe even one more layer of newer content on top of that. If you don't pay, you have to operate several waves of content behind because you probably can't keep up with people who are paying. 

 

It is a dangerous business model because it puts a lot of faith in a relatively few number of major eggs. If a few of those people leave... it is kind of a big deal. It is also dangerous for another reason though: The 80% aren't happy. NCsoft knows it. They aren't giving the 80% what they want fast enough though. Now, one might ask, "Why would it matter what the 80% want though if they contribute so little funding?" Well it does matter what they think because if all the little fish leave, then the game feels empty. There are no players. People can't get through dungeon queue times fast enough especially at late hours of the night. PVP slows to a crawl, and maybe you can't even get it at certain times. The only people left are the whales.

 

That is ok though right? NCsoft could fund the game just on those people right? Well, yes, probably, but once all that happens, those people aren't going to stay either. There is no one left to show off to. Would you pour $4000 into a single player game? Probably not right? Why not? Because no one can see how great you are. You see, B&S works on a bizarre system of what is basically "reverse-envy." "Look at my character! Marvel and despair!"
 

 

What if there are no little fish to see what your $4000 bought you though? Would you feel good about your $4000 investment? Why would you keep putting more money in? You probably wouldn't right? Therefore, without the little fish, minnows, dolphins (whatever you want to call them), the whales leave too. It DOES matter what the 80% thinks. If they leave, that is the first step to the game losing a lot of funding.

 

Next, let's remember that B&S had over 10 NA severs at one point. Now we are down to 1. Why? Because NCsoft didn't think that losing the 80% mattered that much. Oops. They lost a ton of funding. Then they got even MORE disgustingly greedy to try to boost funding back up, which only drove people away further. It is a downward spiral. They don't seem to understand that the way to get out of it is to appeal to the 80%. They need a bunch of new players, and a bunch of players to return.

 

How to do this? Give the players what they want. What do they want? If NCsoft wants to know this, they have no further to look than their own forums. GIVE THE CUSTOMERS WHAT THEY WANT?! What a novel concept. I can tell you that my #1 concern right now is the FPS issue. I need my Frames Per Second to stop dropping to 18 while in a dungeon boss fight! Sure I care about the graphic update and stuff, but I need the game to be playable. My #2 concern is the lag issues. B&S is a heavily ping / latency dependent game. People trying to play B&S with 300+ ping isn't really going to be ok. For this game, it should be less than 150ms. Preferably less than 70ms. If they could just fix those 2 things, that would go a LONG way. Please don't think I am saying those are the only 2 problems. No no. There are plenty of others, but if I could set the priorities at NCsoft, I would say fix those 2 things first.

 

People say that NCsoft doesn't listen. Well... let me be very exact about this. Yes they do. They do listen. I promise you they do. Not once, not twice, but multiple times, I have asked for something, and got a GM to respond. Sometimes the game is even altered if enough people feel a certain way. It might take a few months, but sometimes it happens. I have seen it multiple times. (I've been here since launch day.) Therefore, it isn't that NCsoft doesn't listen. It is also not that they don't do what the players want. It is that they don't do what the players want often enough, or fast enough, and their priorities are too based on the short term revenue gains rather than long term sustainability.

 

So they are listening, but it is actually even worse if you ask me because, since they are listening, they can't claim ignorance. Rather it is, "Yes, we are listening. We hear you. We know what you want... AND we deny you. Go pound sand peasant." Now to be fair, NCsoft does actually give us some of what we ask for. Credit where credit is due right? Many times in the past, we have wanted something, and got it. I have said, "Thank you!" Multiple times in the past for these things, and will say so again right now: "Thank you!" Also, to be fair, a lot of people on the forums ask for a lot of really dumb stuff that, either wouldn't add much to the game, but would take a lot of effort, OR if implemented, would have unintended consequences, which would make the game worse, and, therefore, should not be implemented. That means a lot of what we, as the community, ask for SHOULDN'T be implemented in the game. It is important to be smart about this. However, at the same time, there are a good number of things that should be done, and they either aren't being worked on, or aren't being worked on fast enough.

 

On top of that, when it comes to game development, you can't always just hire more developers. There is such a thing as "having too many cooks in the kitchen." If that happens, coordination falls apart. The left hand doesn't know what the right is doing, and well-meaning efforts end up stepping on each other's toes. There is kind of a limit to how fast stuff can happen, which is why prioritizing is important.

 

I don't feel like we need another dungeon for a while, or a new system to enhance our gear more. In fact, they could take some of those out. We have too many. We don't need a new piece of gear. We don't need a level cap increase. We don't need another new class right now. Blah blah blah. That stuff can go on the back burner for a while. We can do it later. We need the game to run smoothly and reliably at 56 FPS or higher. The existing stuff needs polish.

 

For example, fixing the FPS issue doesn't get you an immediate burst of revenue like releasing a new continental area does. In the long term, fixing the FPS issue slows the bleed of players, which is worth more though, but only in the long term. There are a lot of little things that need to be fixed and polished. NCsoft should take a cycle, and just focus on fixing things. Just have the producer write a letter that says, "No new content for a while. Instead, we are going to focus on going back and fixing everything. THEN... we will release new content, but not before the game is solid, smooth, and firing on all 12 cylinders like a well oiled machine. It is time for a long overdue spring cleaning."

 

So when people say, "NCsoft doesn't listen," that isn't really accurate. A more accurate way to say it is, "NCsoft doesn't obey what we want fast enough or a high enough percent of the time." Now, it is NCsoft's game of course. They don't HAVE to obey, but consider what happens if you have a job. Do you HAVE to do what anyone says? No. If you own a business, do you HAVE to do what the customers or anyone else says? No. What happens if you don't though? You either get fired, or go out of business right? Again, I point to NCsoft having more than 10 servers, and now having 1. Get the picture?

 

Fixing the game so that it runs smoothly, is also beneficial to the whales because right now I don't know anyone who can run B&S efficiently. Even if you have the top of the line processor, 32GB of ram, and a GeForce 2080 Ti, you are probably still dropping to less than 30 FPS in a raid boss fight with characters and effects turned on. That is unacceptable. You can't just leave performance that bad, and expect customers to keep paying. This game is 8 years old, and there are better looking games that run smoother (Resident Evil 2 remake. Resident Evil 3 remake.) I used to say that B&S didn't need a graphics upgrade, but when I look at those games and the FF7 remake... yeah. Ok at this point, to keep up B&S actually does kinda need a graphics update.  

 

I've been here since launch day. When I first started, B&S ran at nearly 60 FPS for me fairly steady and SOMETIMES dropped to 50 FPS. My hardware was far worse at that time. Now, my computer is far better... same game, but I go as low as 12-14 FPS sometimes. What is the excuse for this?

 

 

 

I mean let's be honest. I can tell the difference between 24 fps - 30 fps, and 60 fps, and so can you. It is a matter of smoothness. We should be able to play B&S at 60FPS. I get it if it drops to 59, and then pops up to 61, back and forth. That is fine, but if it so much as touches 55 fps, that is bad, and for me, it drops to less than 24 frequently. There are some people who will definitely want to see 120-144 fps, but darn it! At LEAST 60 sustainable please! And you know, when you turn down all the settings, it doesn't get better. What does make it better is pressing CTRL + F, but... now it isn't an MMO anymore. Hah!

 

Anyway, NCsoft got into this downward spiral, and now they need to get out. It isn't going to happen by selling more high end power items on the HM store like Hongmoon Master Scrolls and stuff, which is literally directly selling power - just... there it is. (No! It isn't ok to indirectly sell power either darn it! Philosophy!) NCsoft's behavior is what has gotten them into this downward spiral, and now they will have to fight hard to get out. It is a slippery slope, and they went down it. They thought, "Yeah it might be a problem later, but that is Future-Me's problem." Well... now they are Future-Me though. What now?

 

They could give up on B&S, but I for one will never buy another NCsoft game regardless of what they promise even if it is in writing because it WAS given to us in writing in their business model revealed and philosophy! NCsoft's word isn't worth anything. Why should I trust them with any new products until they fix this one? B&S S? B&S 2? I won't even consider them, or anything else NCsoft makes. We have substantial time and money invested here. Fix B&S first! Only then will I consider new stuff NCsoft makes. They don't want to fix it? It is a lot of work without a lot of immediate reward? Hmm. Maybe they shouldn't have made such a mess of it to begin with eh? Now they have a lot to clean.

 

I don't really know who to blame exactly because NCsoft doesn't like to name names, but it doesn't really matter because NCsoft is the developer AND the publisher AND is responsible for the way their Support is set up, so it is all on NCsoft ultimately.

 

To be clear, I do not hate B&S. No no! I love B&S! I could be all salty, and want them to go out of business because it would serve them right, but then I would lose my money and time investment, and not have a fun game to play, so I don't want that, nor do I want players leaving. If I didn't care about B&S, would I be writing this? No. I am writing this because I DO want to see B&S do well! B&S, at its core is a good game with tons of potential, but it is like a glimmering diamond in a pile of chunks of coal compared to other games. The problem is that the diamond has a filthy, rotting, smelly, maggot ridden banana peel with flies around it sitting on top of it. The banana peel was put there by the people running the game. All you have to do, is take the banana peel off, and polish the diamond. I would do it for them if I was allowed! I am sure most players AND employees of NCsoft are the same, so what is the hold up? Where is the bottle neck? Who is preventing this from happening? It must be certain people at NCsoft with a good amount of authority right? Remove these people! Unlock the team and the game's potential! We all want this game to be good right? We have to get these hurdles out of the way. More money isn't the answer. Certain people getting fired, and replaced is the answer.

 

See a lot of people think that this isn't constructive feed back. No no! I like 95% of Blade and Soul. I am criticizing 5% or so of the game not because I don't like the game, but because I DO like the game, and want to see it at full potential! I am pretty sure all of you feel the same way, and I think even NCsoft feels that way, but the players can't fix this for NCsoft. NCsoft has to change a bunch of stuff. It is their game. We don't have the power. They do. So why aren't they doing it? Lazy? Greedy? Too short sighted? Don't care, and choose to throw their loyal customers (and if you are on the last 1 server... you ARE a loyal customer. That isn't an exaggeration.) away because the mobile market makes more? Who cares about those PC gamers who funded our company for so long? Is that a good way to treat people?

 

B&S doesn't have a low amount of players because it never had them. It isn't low compared to the mobile market because the mobile titles are so much better. B&S isn't doing well because 90% of the player base left (more than 10 servers down to 1 is somewhere around 90% of regular players), which happened because of NCsoft's management of the game. The answer isn't, "NCsoft needs to make a new game" because the same thing will happen again. The answer is, "Change NCsoft's behavior so that this stops happening, and we start moving in the right direction."

 

Here is the deal. Corporations are run by a CEO, Chief Executive Officer. A CEO is, by contract, what is called a "Fiduciary." A Fiduciary is a legal entity that, by contract, MUST do what is in the best interests of another entity, or group of entities to the maximum extent of the law. A Fiduciary cannot break the law, but they MUST do the best the can for the entity they represent. The CEO, is a fiduciary for the shareholders, NOT the customers. That means the guy at the top is interested in doing the best he can for the share holders, not the customers. He is actually required by contract to only care about the customers so far as it gets more money out of their pockets into the shareholder's. If he violates this contract based on what he thinks is right or wrong, it is a contract violation, and he can lose his job, and, in some cases, even go to jail. It doesn't matter what he thinks is right and wrong. He has to do what is best for the shareholders as long as it is legal. Often times what is legal is not necessarily the same thing as what is "right." What is "wrong" is not always illegal either. The CEO sets the tone. The tone filters down the chain of authority within the company. Anyone who acts against the tone gets fired.

 

This is why Corporations CAN'T give you a straight, honest, blunt answer. It would be a contract violation. An employee is an agent of the Fiduciary of the shareholders. If they are totally honest with their customers, it tends to lose customers. That isn't in the best interests of the shareholders. You know the corporate, wink, smile, and nod with the thumbs up? You know how support apologizes profusely for everything without actually admitting fault or committing to DO anything? The corporate mealy mouthed answer? That is why that is a thing.

 

How to remedy this? My suggestion on how to get out of this problem would be to realize that what is best for the shareholders in the short term is actually bad for them in the long term. Ultimately, their investment would be better (long term) by not sacrificing NCsoft's game's player bases for the short term boosts obtained from cash grabs, sell outs, cutting corners, the company going back on its word, neglecting to go back and fix things, etc. Taking action based on THAT... is not a contract violation because, ultimately, it IS doing the best for the shareholders too because it is actually more money, but... over time in the long run. The whole corporation, overall would make more. Patience.

 

I am not going to detail out every nitty gritty little detail of everything that needs to be done because the list is long, and this post would be WAY longer than it already is, and NCsoft already knows what the players want anyway because they do read the forums. They know. They've been told. Now Korea needs to make it happen. Is there anything we can do to get the bottlenecks out of the way? Don't say more money. That hasn't worked in the past for this game, so I see no reason why it would work in the future.

Edited May 24, 2020 by NorbertTheOpinionated

[Rephiria]

@NorbertTheOpinionated It's very simple : mobile gaming is what give them the most of income. My take is that they're running on a single-minded economic plan. Mobile games are known to be more cash-grabbing than everything else in general and as said, it gives NC Soft the most of their incomes. I believe they're using that one economic for every single one of their games instead of running multiple ones. 

 

This is my feeling at least, nothing says I'm truly right.

 

 

 

 

[MassiveEgo]

15 hours ago, ImoutoMaster said:

Sorry but you get more than enough of them from PVE aswell i have 15K soul stone crystals and even if you actully need Soul stones just buy them off F5 its not like you are forced to do PVP for them. Also Soul stone plains can be done solo nowdays just farm it if you really dont wanna use F5.

Why are you talking about soulstone crystals when OP is specifically talking about Soulstones? You most definitely do NOT get enough soulstones out of PvE. Even if you push dailies and weeklies on all alts, you would hardly make enough of those for a single PTS try in a week. I would hardly call that enough, especially when we look at just how many TS and PTS the gear progression needs. And f5 prices of the stuff are yikes, at least in EU.

[ImoutoMaster]

vor 49 Minuten schrieb MassiveEgo:

Why are you talking about soulstone crystals when OP is specifically talking about Soulstones? You most definitely do NOT get enough soulstones out of PvE. Even if you push dailies and weeklies on all alts, you would hardly make enough of those for a single PTS try in a week. I would hardly call that enough, especially when we look at just how many TS and PTS the gear progression needs. And f5 prices of the stuff are yikes, at least in EU.

My point is: PVE Players complain and complain about avaibility of Soulstones/Moonstones and demand ways to farm them with PVE which would result in lowering the income of PVP which is already super low if they dont do PVE aswell. 

 

If PVE Players get something like they get all the time if some improvements come into the game, PVP Players get something taken from them alot of times and reducing their only way of income this is definetly not a good way just to statisfy some PVE Players. 

 

Dont get me wrong i do agree all PVE related Items should be 100% obtaibale in good quantitiy via PVE only but then i want them to remove 100% of the need to play PVE at all if you want PVP Gear. Expect for HM skills which are farmed really really fast there is litterly no reason for PVE Players to join PVP while PVP Player are forced to the following: 

 

1. Get decent PVE Gear cause no one will run the newest dungeons with you if you have Riftwalk 3 and 1st gen legendary stuff. 

2. Run the Dungeons 100 times so you can get your PVP Accesories (most of the time even more than 100).

3. Do dailys every single day just like weeklys cause you need Keys to open boxes which are mainly obtainable via PVE.

4. Farm Elder scales cause you need them for current PVP Gear aswell. 

 

P.S yeah Elder scales can be bought via F5 but there is not enough quantity so i cant count this but i do count Sacred orbs, Elysians etc. otherwise i would argue that PVP cant get thoose aswell just like PVE cant really get Soul stones and moonstones. 

 

Simply put: PVE Players should stop being selfish and demand stuff instead they should think about the consequenzes and show options which would be beneficial for booth kind of players and not hurt the others otherwise i would demand them to give us sacred orbs and elysians in PVP aswell which would hurt the income of PVE Players but well they have more than enough ways to farm gold. 

Edited May 24, 2020 by ImoutoMaster

[Li Mingxia]

Personally I think it’s stupid to have pvp players do pve to get pvp equipment and vice versa for pve players needing pvp to get pve  stuff. In my opinion, mmos should be separated int o two types, competitive pvp and cooperative pve. An mmo shouldn’t cater to both. I understand why they do because they want players to do all content. The problem with that is they don’t consider the fact that some players just really hate either pvp or pve so much that they refuse to touch the respective content, regardless if you need to do it to get mats or gear. Needing mats or gear is not motivation enough to get those players to play those modes. So what kind of motivation do we need to get those players to do pve or pvp content if they hate one or the other that much?

[Grimoir]

3 minutes ago, Li Mingxia said:

Personally I think it’s stupid to have pvp players do pve to get pvp equipment and vice versa for pve players needing pvp to get pve  stuff. In my opinion, mmos should be separated int o two types, competitive pvp and cooperative pve. An mmo shouldn’t cater to both. I understand why they do because they want players to do all content. The problem with that is they don’t consider the fact that some players just really hate either pvp or pve so much that they refuse to touch the respective content, regardless if you need to do it to get mats or gear. Needing mats or gear is not motivation enough to get those players to play those modes. So what kind of motivation do we need to get those players to do pve or pvp content if they hate one or the other that much?

One one hand yes but on the other, BnS has always been about both contents, even before release in the west so everyone should already know that in this game, part of its model is that you do both if you want to farm materials. This is not something that was magically added. Soulstones and Moonstones are PVP resources, so they are obtained through PVP only. This way its a healthy balance for both sides as each one has materials / items the other side needs.

 

I am very sure if moonstones were obtainable through PVE 6v6 would completely die out.

[Rephiria]

il y a une heure, Grimoir a dit :

One one hand yes but on the other, BnS has always been about both contents, even before release in the west so everyone should already know that in this game, part of its model is that you do both if you want to farm materials. This is not something that was magically added. Soulstones and Moonstones are PVP resources, so they are obtained through PVP only. This way its a healthy balance for both sides as each one has materials / items the other side needs.

I am very sure if moonstones were obtainable through PVE 6v6 would completely die out.

Hot take : streamlining all 4 types of materials for upgrades actually made the game worse.

 

I remember back in the day how of an issue gathering moonstone crystal was. Nowadays, it shifted toward elysians while also having a consequential loss of soulstone crystal as well. (it is literally used for every single thing at this point, while it's still not an issue, the loss of ss compared to what I used to own was alarming nonetheless)

Meanwhile it's been a kicking 4 years that I still have millions of sacred crystals with close to no ways of dumping them. When I can dump them into something (legendary elements/jewels), it doesn't change the fact that I also have to dump another mat along sacreds as well, which totally cancels the whole thing then.

 

You get tons of sacred crystals thanks to PvE, these should be massively used instead of certain other materials. Elysian only for path raid was fine too, they just needed to give more opportunity of gathering them. It's raid and people can end up with no progression because the elysians are only a part of boss drops. Give people a bunch of them via dynamic chests. (or the boss treasures)

Moonstone/soulstone are "pvp" materials and should stay that way : underused for PvE gear, main mats for PvP gear. It doesn't mean PvE gear should ask none of them, I do believe making people play "both PvE and PvP" isn't a bad thing, but they definitely need to make PvP fun for that to happen. Right now Arena/Tags are limited in time, with a tons of players either with 200 alts or people using xml/add-ons trash and Battleground is a cesspool of OHOKs with broken gear along broken 3rd specs for most.

But back to mats, it should be the opposite for sacred/elysian : main pve mats, underused for pvp gear.

[Li Mingxia]

10 hours ago, Grimoir said:

One one hand yes but on the other, BnS has always been about both contents, even before release in the west so everyone should already know that in this game, part of its model is that you do both if you want to farm materials. This is not something that was magically added. Soulstones and Moonstones are PVP resources, so they are obtained through PVP only. This way its a healthy balance for both sides as each one has materials / items the other side needs.

 

I am very sure if moonstones were obtainable through PVE 6v6 would completely die out.

The key word is should. However, that’s not always the case. When I first started I didn’t know the game had pvp. I didn’t find out until they make u choose a faction. Not everyone researches a game. I came for the story and the art style, I’m like this looks cool so I will try it. 
 

Anyway, regardless if someone knows or not, it’s still not enough motivation for some players so again, how do you get the players that hate one mode or the other to do both if even getting mats is not enough motivation for them?

[Grimoir]

8 minutes ago, Li Mingxia said:

The key word is should. However, that’s not always the case. When I first started I didn’t know the game had pvp. I didn’t find out until they make u choose a faction. Not everyone researches a game. I came for the story and the art style, I’m like this looks cool so I will try it. 
 

Anyway, regardless if someone knows or not, it’s still not enough motivation for some players so again, how do you get the players that hate one mode or the other to do both if even getting mats is not enough motivation for them?

Well...they dont have to persay. They are free to buy the materials off the marketplace. so either do both modes and be somewhat self sufficient and earn gold from both, or do one, make the gold to buy materials from the other.

[Azareel6]

Thanks for responding everyone and also thanks for pretty much proving my point. The point was that it is a really good game and I've been enjoying it for years now. I have taken a break here and there but for the most part, I've stuck with it. Buuuuuuut there needs to be a huge overhaul on how some of these items are earned. I don't care if you PvP or PvE and I especially don't care at all if you're F2P. If you are F2P and never spend anything on the game to support it then I don't think you really have much of a say in anything.  (BTW this isn't me trying to attack anyone. It's just my opinion in general about f2p because if none of us paid no game would ever survive.)

 

I would think a company would somewhat cater to the consumer if they want to succeed. This shouldn't be about nickel and diming us if we are paying a monthly subscription and supporting the company. I don't expect something for nothing, but if you pay your monthly/yearly subscription. You should be able to login and just play how you want and earn the items you need. If you're always making adjustments to squeeze a little more out of the players, you're going to lose a lot of them and limit your income. It seems dumb to rely on a few mega spenders vs just making it better and having more players subscribe.

 

I don't think telling people to "just buy them off of f5" or "wait for the devs to give you freebies in your rewards" or "it's the only way for PvP people to make gold" (hell half the people selling them on the market are probably gold farmers anyway) is a good argument to make for nothing needs to change. I do think it's complete bs that the PvP stuff has been put behind a timed window even more than it was before. It is horrible for those that are in different parts of the world but play on the NA servers. Also having a bit of PvP mixed in that you have to do if you're PvE is whatever as well. You need your skill books? Go do some arena. You want some of the older outfits and not farming a dungeon 1000 times with no luck? Go spend a day in arena as well. Who knows you may end up really liking it.

 

But to have certain mats on complete lockdown for it is ridiculous. Especially when if you don't PvP or care to upgrade that stuff, you are going to get destroyed in either SSP or BG's. There are what 8-10 trash mobs in SSP that actually give you prestige points and they are all dead 99.9% of the time bc someone else is already farming them. The mobs you need for the quests are all timed and good luck trying to kill them depending on what faction you are. Oh and if you do happen to be the right faction that has it on lockdown. Good luck getting a hit on the mob you need since its damage based and you won't get credit for it anyway.

 

The same goes for if you want to PvP and not do dungeons. Just put them all in bg or arena vendors and let them buy them with pvp currency and upgrade with bloodstones. But letting anyone rule the market for items needed to upgrade is idiotic.

 

Let's look at this only way for PvP people to earn money for a minute. Battlegrounds are legit the one and only way to earn Moonstones and you can earn what 100s per box depending on your ranking there (same goes for ss in arena btw). If I do your party/solo dungeons you're walking away with what 150+ gold a day and with the market prices always being overpriced (ms are currently 10g apiece) on literally everything. You'll never be able to earn even close to what you need by buying them. Why lock materials behind this kind of content when it really serves no purpose. I'm all about play how you want and earn everything except raid content with how you want to play because it's supposed to be fun. 

 

Again this is NOT me saying waaaaahhhhh I want more in the game for free give me give me give me. This is me saying if they would quit limiting materials everyone needs in the game and making people do content they don't want to do then they would have more subscribes and would make more money. It's all about having fun and being rewarded for the time you are putting in. If players, whether it's PVP or PvE, feel screwed for an extended period of time they are just all going to quit so why not make it fun for both playstyles.

 

What I think would be the easiest fix

1. Add dungeon gear in PvP vendors purchased with PvP currency (which I think they have started doing this with the past couple updates. At least some pvp accessories anyway.)
2. Let PvP players upgrade with bloodstones like some of the older gear vs the elder scales.
3. Make the refined mats (i.e. crystals) be converted to unrefined with a 5 or 10 to 1 ratio. This would allow pve players to earn their unrefined mats they need while also letting the pvp players sell the ones they earn. This would more than likely lower the prices in the market and make it somewhat reasonable as well.
4. Honestly, these could even be a subscription perk.

Thanks ladies/gents and see you in-game!!!

[Rephiria]

Il y a 1 heure, Azareel6 a dit :

If you are F2P and never spend anything on the game to support it then I don't think you really have much of a say in anything.  (BTW this isn't me trying to attack anyone. It's just my opinion in general about f2p because if none of us paid no game would ever survive.)

This is still one of many controversial opinion around the game, matters not what you're trying for, this will attack a certain group of people for sure. 

 

>they have nothing to say

And why is that ? While they not pay, they're still logging into the game daily and it still boost NC Soft's playerbase's numbers. This sounds more like an extreme point of view from a pseudo-capitalism standpoint to have only people that spend real money to have a say in anything. That's definitely NOT how you're supposed to balance or tweak this game at all.

 

The real problem here is one that appears in pretty much any kind of games (even AAA ones) : constructive criticism. 

When probably 70% of opinions here are like this :

Yes there's no way to argue when people act as such. You can see that as well anytime you see someone here arguing with @Grimoirfor example.

 

 Also quick point about the typical "if none of us paid, game wouldn't be alive" : NC Soft made a product where the point is to make people spend. However, you'd like to have a sustainable income and as you can see with the quarters results from over the last 2 years, Blade and Soul keeps dropping lower and lower each time. (this quarter had a small bump in gain, which I suppose was due to Frontier)

 

There's no reasonable opinions about how the current policy of micro-transactions is good at this very moment : Premium membership is barely worth it, base cosmetics rotations are almost inexistant, Trove and Hongsil treasure draw are unfair gambling features that should have never seen the day at all, and there's probably more like legendary unity stones being 30-50€ EACH while refining 8 purple unity stones as a f2p player doesn't even guarantee you to get a legendary one, which is literally called "shitting on your progression".

 

I'd understand about Korea having a specific gaming market with mobile gaming but when you open yourself to other regions, the least you should do is to fit these market standards. You can't be surprise to have your income being lower every quarter and say something like "But we're supposed to have made a deal !" while you're the one transgressing it, that's exactly what's currently happening with NC Soft.

Edited May 25, 2020 by Rephiria

[Grimoir]

1 hour ago, Rephiria said:

This is still one of many controversial opinion around the game, matters not what you're trying for, this will attack a certain group of people for sure. 

 

>they have nothing to say

And why is that ? While they not pay, they're still logging into the game daily and it still boost NC Soft's playerbase's numbers. This sounds more like an extreme point of view from a pseudo-capitalism standpoint to have only people that spend real money to have a say in anything. That's definitely NOT how you're supposed to balance or tweak this game at all.

 

The real problem here is one that appears in pretty much any kind of games (even AAA ones) : constructive criticism. 

When probably 70% of opinions here are like this :

I would actually say: "Doesnt matter how much you spend and if you spend, what korea says, goes". Lets be honest here, whales can complain and rage all they want, it still will not get things changed or done unless KR wants to.

 

As far as contructive criticism goes: i like when the criticism is expressed "properly" so no bad language or insults, just issue and arguments why someone thinks this way and not differently. However constructive criticism also requires one to be open to opinion of others who not necessarily are the same.

[ImoutoMaster]

Am 25.5.2020 um 07:25 schrieb Azareel6:

I would think a company would somewhat cater to the consumer if they want to succeed.

Thats sadly not the case. NCwest is providing us with Blade and soul but the updates and decisions are made in Korea but the Korean devs dont care about the wellbeing of the western market they have proven this multiple times. If it dies it dies. Recently there was also a written text of some ex Employee who wrote for example even if NCwest sees a specific update is gonna be bad for the western market KR dosent care about what NCwest says about this so after alot of disappointments NCwest is not even trying.

Zitat

Let's look at this only way for PvP people to earn money for a minute. Battlegrounds are legit the one and only way to earn Moonstones and you can earn what 100s per box

Its 14 per Gold box, 7 per Silver Box , probably 1 or 2 per Bronze Box. If it where 100 per Box Moonstones would be like 3 Gold or even 2 Gold each instead of 8 Gold.

Zitat

If I do your party/solo dungeons you're walking away with what 150+ gold a day and with the market prices always being overpriced (ms are currently 10g apiece) on literally everything. You'll never be able to earn even close to what you need by buying them.

Well if you have no idea how to earn gold via PVE its not the fault of PVP. For example solo CC runs can be sold, you can farm dungeons with Elder scales and the recent released Accesorie gear or you can raid. You gonna earn a ton of gold.

Zitat

Why lock materials behind this kind of content when it really serves no purpose.

Its keeping PVP somewhat alive. For example i am a player who plays booth PVP and PVE if i couldnt earn money off PVP i wouldnt play it and since i wouldnt have a stable income then (Dungeons the whole day is to boring for me) i wouldnt have a reason to play this game at all cause i wouldnt be able to progress.

Zitat

i'm all about play how you want and earn everything except raid content with how you want to play because it's supposed to be fun.

We all want this but to reach such a point first we either need to seperate booth modes or make PVP great again so people actully enjoy PVP. Making PVP great again is more likely cause it wouldnt cut the income of NCwest as much as seperating booth modes.

Zitat

Again this is NOT me saying waaaaahhhhh I want more in the game for free give me give me give me. This is me saying if they would quit limiting materials everyone needs in the game and making people do content they don't want to do then they would have more subscribes and would make more money. It's all about having fun and being rewarded for the time you are putting in. If players, whether it's PVP or PvE, feel screwed for an extended period of time they are just all going to quit so why not make it fun for both playstyles.

Again everyone agrees with u people shouldnt be forced to play PVP or PVE but its very very unlikely this is gonna happen cause it would remove the need to buy stuff from F10 cause you could simply farm the stuff. Thats why we need to think realistcly so every cry out of some PVE guy is litterly "cry cry cry i want the stuff for free cry cry cry i am to bored to do PVP" and this is kinda insulting to someone like me cause there are actully people in the past who actully meant it like "just kill of PVP i dont like this gamemode so who cares about it".

Zitat

What I think would be the easiest fix

1. Add dungeon gear in PvP vendors purchased with PvP currency (which I think they have started doing this with the past couple updates. At least some pvp accessories anyway.)

Would a good idea but to complicated. Just remove the need of running the dungeons to purchase PVP Gear Accesories completly this would remove the need to run Dungeons at all and change all kind of scales you need for PVP releated gear to Bloodstones.

Zitat

1. Make the refined mats (i.e. crystals) be converted to unrefined with a 5 or 10 to 1 ratio. This would allow pve players to earn their unrefined mats they need while also letting the pvp players sell the ones they earn. This would more than likely lower the prices in the market and make it somewhat reasonable as well.

Good idea id like to see this if they put in some sacred orb, Elysian crystal to PVP aswell otherwise it would be unfair cause even if PVE people cant get much Moonstone Crystals in PVE they still get some while PVP gets not a single Elysian or Sacred orb.

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by ImoutoMaster

[prietess]

On 5/24/2020 at 8:49 AM, NorbertTheOpinionated said:

I don't feel like we need another dungeon for a while, or a new system to enhance our gear more. In fact, they could take some of those out. We have too many. We don't need a new piece of gear. We don't need a level cap increase. We don't need another new class right now. Blah blah blah. That stuff can go on the back burner for a while. We can do it later. We need the game to run smoothly and reliably at 56 FPS or higher. The existing stuff needs polish.

 

For example, fixing the FPS issue doesn't get you an immediate burst of revenue like releasing a new continental area does. In the long term, fixing the FPS issue slows the bleed of players, which is worth more though, but only in the long term. There are a lot of little things that need to be fixed and polished. NCsoft should take a cycle, and just focus on fixing things. Just have the producer write a letter that says, "No new content for a while. Instead, we are going to focus on going back and fixing everything. THEN... we will release new content, but not before the game is solid, smooth, and firing on all 12 cylinders like a well oiled machine. It is time for a long overdue spring cleaning."

 i agree we dont need all these, but all these bring a huge revenue > new class (whales gonna spend a lot to upgrade / mail items), new dungeon (many people will be online to farm it), no choice..........they all only care about NOW, why care about future if there is no NOW (not enough money now to finance the company/not much enough)

 

I support your ideas, but i just think it will never happen sadly for this game.

from first day I feel this game updates TOO fast, like i need to be always playing everyday with many alts to keep up as i am f2p players. But in the end i give up, this is just the game it is, if I ask them to reduce the updates, they will never do it and I just have to find another game.

It is saddening truth.

 

And yes, if u ask me too what is most important thing to change for this game for better future (which they dont care about future, only care about now-how much money can be made every month) are those two; 1) FPS, 2) ping dependant lag.

But i know these 2 will never ever change, because company is too busy to deal with the monthly pay check/income.

[lillvargen]

@Imoutomaster, I am very sure we don't get any Ascension orb fragments from dailies any more, so still having those quests for dailies (at least Heavens Mandate) will soon be impossible to finish

[NorbertTheOpinionated]

On 5/28/2020 at 11:37 PM, prietess said:

 i agree we dont need all these, but all these bring a huge revenue > new class (whales gonna spend a lot to upgrade / mail items), new dungeon (many people will be online to farm it), no choice..........they all only care about NOW, why care about future if there is no NOW (not enough money now to finance the company/not much enough)

 

I support your ideas, but i just think it will never happen sadly for this game.

from first day I feel this game updates TOO fast, like i need to be always playing everyday with many alts to keep up as i am f2p players. But in the end i give up, this is just the game it is, if I ask them to reduce the updates, they will never do it and I just have to find another game.

It is saddening truth.

 

And yes, if u ask me too what is most important thing to change for this game for better future (which they dont care about future, only care about now-how much money can be made every month) are those two; 1) FPS, 2) ping dependant lag.

But i know these 2 will never ever change, because company is too busy to deal with the monthly pay check/income.

I agree. The thing that is frustrating to me is that while it is true that you have to worry about today or there won't be a tomorrow, that mentality is what NCsoft has been operating on for years now, and the result is that they had over 10 servers, and are now down to 1. That is around a 90% decrease! They don't seem to make the connection that they have been putting off fixing the game for so long that everyone has already quit. They always focus on today while today is still today, and they never get to what needs to be done tomorrow. This prevents sustaining long term player retention. As a result they produce for today, but they can never hold onto those gains for very long because what needed to happen tomorrow never gets done. It is like scooping up sand into a sieve or a pot where the bottom has rusted out to the point there are holes in it.

 

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0552/3217/files/Sieve.jpg?2984

 

You can do it, and it will fill up for a little while if you dump enough sand in all at once, but what is the point if you can't keep the sand from spilling out? The fact that they refuse to address the holes in the pot is what is killing them, and they refuse to fix it! As you said they insist on focusing on what makes them money in the short term, but then that income isn't as sustainable as it could be because the players that paid that money leave because of problems NCsoft chooses not to fix. Building more and more house on a broken, poor foundation is foolish! Why can't they see this, and fix the foundation first?! I am sure the NA team has told Korea, but Korea needs to fix it and they just aren't because... why? I would like to know the answer to this question.

 

Is it because they simply don't care about the PC gaming market anymore? Capcom made that mistake too. Sure, it made money in the short term, but in the long term it nearly destroyed them. Now that Capcom went back to console and PC titles, they are back on the horse, but they were hurting pretty badly for a while there. Failure to learn from the mistakes of others.

 

I mean what needs to happen for NCsoft to learn? Maybe they need to get the short term boost like Capcom got from the mobile market, then nearly go out of business and have more than half of their IP titles collapse on them despite having multiple great titles? Then wallow in their failure for a few years, and THEN MAYBE grow a brain, and if they are lucky enough to have enough money left, maybe fix a few things then? I mean really, what needs to happen? Does the fecal matter need to impact the overhead oscillating unit until the sparks are flying out of the engine, and lights the house on fire? If so, can we accelerate this so it happens sooner so they fix it? They could just avoid all this happening if they would just be smart and do the dirty, thankless work that needs to be done to ensure long term sustainability.

 

(Not totally thankless. I will thank them. Keroppi probably will on his you tube channel. I don't know about EvilDoUsHarm though. He is pretty disgusted, and mostly out the door at this point. Jarke will thank them on his you tube most likely. I am sure most of the community would be thankful, not that most of them would say so, but they would show it by not bleeding players as fast.) As far as regaining players who left? I hate to say this, but it might be too late for that. NCsoft might have messed up too hard for too many years now. Those players might never come back because they might never look back to check to see if NCsoft fixed anything, and honestly, why should they be obligated to? NCsoft has taken FAR too long. I guess new players... would start over, and NCsoft has already squandered their, "Hey we are a new game honeymoon period," so to a certain degree, they will have to start over building a new player base without it.

 

I can see that they want to get that initial burst back with their remakes of B&S, and... I am NOT going to play those if the game is dumbed-down due to being mobile version and if I can't keep my progress in both games. Does NCsoft think we are going to put years of effort into B&S, and then decide, "Hey look! B&S 2! Start over just because NCsoft wants that "our-game-is-new period" again? Sure!" NO! Not going to happen. Make due without it NCsoft. Why would I trust NCsoft to treat the new game right when they refuse to fix this one? If they want me to consider a new game they make after telling us they will take care of that one, they need to show us that they are serious about that by fixing their existing games first!

 

Another thing that is so frustrating to me about this is that B&S wasn't always like this. NCsoft actually broke it! It was fine, and then the people running it actually came in and made it worse little bit by bit with various changes over the years. STOP SELLING POWER! Fix the lag, and FPS issues, disconnects, bugs, sync issues, glitches, and stuff!

 

The way I perceive NCsoft Korea's response: "Nah. Go pound sand" *Turns to look at some data about their game* "I just can't understand why we are down to 1 server. Hmm. Maybe if I wasn't so dumb. I should ask for a raise. Maybe we should have an NA representative who can actually speak English so he can read what his own players say on the forums... Nah. We should ask the players for more money than they are already paying."

 

And I will tell the company about that graphics update... if it doesn't address FPS lower than 30 in dungeons AT THE VERY LEAST... it will also be a short term boost. Graphics alone are NOT going to save this game. We need performance.

[MassiveEgo]

On 5/26/2020 at 1:12 PM, ImoutoMaster said:

Good idea id like to see this if they put in some sacred orb, Elysian crystal to PVP aswell otherwise it would be unfair cause even if PVE people cant get much Moonstone Crystals in PVE they still get some while PVP gets not a single Elysian or Sacred orb.

Getting some = maybe 1x moonstone/day. Maybe. It could be zero and more often than not, it's 0. Also if we dial back a notch, the amount of moonstones produced per day is way too low compared to the amount of elysian orbs and sacred orbs produces in the same period of time. Couple this with the natural limitations when it comes to gold generation and you get a very uneven price range on pvp wares. Me no likes this kind of broken system. Me no likes at all.

[ImoutoMaster]

vor 14 Stunden schrieb MassiveEgo:

Getting some = maybe 1x moonstone/day. Maybe. It could be zero and more often than not, it's 0. Also if we dial back a notch, the amount of moonstones produced per day is way too low compared to the amount of elysian orbs and sacred orbs produces in the same period of time. Couple this with the natural limitations when it comes to gold generation and you get a very uneven price range on pvp wares. Me no likes this kind of broken system. Me no likes at all.

I play PVE and PVP mostly PVE thou since Awakening Update (this Update sucks) i do agree that we need more PVE avaibility i simply think its wrong without giving PVP Players the same treatment. Even if Elysians and Sacred orbs are cheaper than Moonstones and Soul stones together you also need way more of them. So PVP Players probably would need to pay way more to get their mats then PVE Player but again i didnt calculate it yet.

 

P.S sadly i always have to write this: PVP Players are forced to buy/Upgrade PVE Gear to farm their PVP Gear while PVE People can just completly ignore PVP so PVP needs way more mats then PVE.

[MassiveEgo]

Just completely ignore PvP. Suuuuure. Swiping is the only way to do that. So to hell with that logic.

[KzE]

I completely ignore the game. Best option nowadays :D

[ImoutoMaster]

Am 6.6.2020 um 02:41 schrieb MassiveEgo:

Just completely ignore PvP. Suuuuure. Swiping is the only way to do that. So to hell with that logic.

Tell me where are PVE People forced to do PVP outside of HM skills which are farmed very fast and expect for the Royal Zen bean which can be obtained without PVP if Event is going on.

 

I wrote it enough times already where PVP Players are forced to PVE and just to be safe i mention it again i mostly play PVE !

Edited June 9, 2020 by ImoutoMaster

[COSMICNINJA]

old news move on zz