I can't remember all dungeon mechanics

[Arohk]

Just now, Li Eunmi said:

Read my edit :3

oh that, well ic an explain that f you like , its pretty simple.

[Li Eunmi]

9 minutes ago, Arohk said:

oh that, well ic an explain that f you like , its pretty simple.

Oh? Is there a trick I’m missing?

[Arohk]

7 minutes ago, Li Eunmi said:

Oh? Is there a trick I’m missing?

 

Watch, and learn.

[Amarathiel]

@Li Eunmi

 

Firstly the problem with pug runs is that they most often will not give you that time you need to learn mechanics properly as people just want it done. So if you want to learn dungeons properly, you'd need to create an actual learning group for it. I mean you can't do them all first try, it's always confusing on your first runs. Gotta get experience to become a better player at it.

 

Secondly those instant death mechanics are there to basically force you to learn them and practice them until your reaction time gets better and you can do them to prevent you just from do them all mindlessly, its annoying sure cause of the loading times but without them it would be just so much more boring. Just need to get the timings into your muscle memory and you can do them next time with your eyes closed. Lot of the instant deaths were removed from most dungeons already, event the current top dungeons don't really instant kill you if you fail any mechanics, except the mini bosses.

 

Main issue I feel is that people don't want to spend 2 hours learning a dungeon mechanic anymore in these games for whatever reasons they might have for it when that particular part is supposed to be what makes the game worth playing. If a person is unable to learn them or remember them, that's not a problem of the game totally and the game should not really change to fit them if game was not meant to be like that. It just depends on what kind of dungeon difficulty developers want and for how many people that kind of difficulty is going to be appealing. As an example, Dark Souls or Sekiro are games not meant for every player as they are difficult games, designed for people who want that kind of thing. Same would go for MMO games, depends on for who it is intended for.

[RyVerseLy]

@NorbertTheOpinionated You want that people read your text, but you didn't read mine aha. To sum up:

- 90% of the actual (one shot) mechs already got removed and nerfed to the ground

- Just don't stay in dark, dangerous looking areas helps in like 9/10 cases

- DST is indeed crappy in a low gear f8 group

- Learn from your mistakes, use your rezz charms, watch guides

 

Oh and I did all these dungeons/bosses with low gear back then and we were able to clear it and besides low dps we had to do the actual, now removed, mechs :o Not gonna waste more time with this, have a good day sir o/

[Li Eunmi]

36 minutes ago, Amarathiel said:

@Li Eunmi

 

Firstly the problem with pug runs is that they most often will not give you that time you need to learn mechanics properly as people just want it done. So if you want to learn dungeons properly, you'd need to create an actual learning group for it. I mean you can't do them all first try, it's always confusing on your first runs. Gotta get experience to become a better player at it.

 

Secondly those instant death mechanics are there to basically force you to learn them and practice them until your reaction time gets better and you can do them to prevent you just from do them all mindlessly, its annoying sure cause of the loading times but without them it would be just so much more boring. Just need to get the timings into your muscle memory and you can do them next time with your eyes closed. Lot of the instant deaths were removed from most dungeons already, event the current top dungeons don't really instant kill you if you fail any mechanics, except the mini bosses.

 

Main issue I feel is that people don't want to spend 2 hours learning a dungeon mechanic anymore in these games for whatever reasons they might have for it when that particular part is supposed to be what makes the game worth playing. If a person is unable to learn them or remember them, that's not a problem of the game totally and the game should not really change to fit them if game was not meant to be like that. It just depends on what kind of dungeon difficulty developers want and for how many people that kind of difficulty is going to be appealing. As an example, Dark Souls or Sekiro are games not meant for every player as they are difficult games, designed for people who want that kind of thing. Same would go for MMO games, depends on for who it is intended for.

Yeah, I think the problem is the game is designed for players with a certain skill set in games but not marketed it as such like Dark Souls (and I’ve played and beaten dark souls and I don’t find that game hard compared to bns. Why I can play a game like dark souls easily enough but not bns is beyond me, I played Code Vein and loved that too) so it attracts a lot of people who just aren’t good at video games in the first place. When the new players see how hard the game is, they just get frustrated and leave, leaving only a small niche player base willing to put up with bad game design or really frustrating difficulty (I don’t find dark souls or code vein frustrating, the controls actually respond when I hit a button and do something, my ping in bns is like 120ms on average so not for sure if that is causing my input delays) Since the game has tiny numbers, they have to milk the few players they have to make any profit from it. 
 

Look at ffxiv. The game is super easy to play. As a result, it has the largest active player base on the mmo scene. It saves the most difficult content for those few willing to do it to raids, savage, extreme and ultimate. I bet though that because of this, they make bookoo bucks just from the subs alone compared to the tiny amount bns makes for NCsoft.

 

anyway, sorry I’m rambling. All me and op is asking for is a compromise. I can’t play at the same dungeon for eight hours a day to try and master the dungeon and the boss mechs, I don’t have time for that. It’s why I don’t play fighting games anymore, it takes too much time to get decent at them for people like me who have a hard time executing things flawlessly, especially on a game that has input delay and clunky controls. I just want to progress my character lol. I can learn the mechanics, but I have issues actually executing. Severe punishing mechanics don’t motivate me to get better, they just make me want to stop playing. I feel I already hit a wall because I don’t have the skill to raid (and I don’t like raiding anyway) so after just a month of playing I’m already bored because I have nothing to do. I can’t progress my character because I’m not good enough to handle even basic mechs. I started playing becuz there is no content in pso2 jp rn, ffxiv started heavily relying on rng for drops so could never get what I wanted and Black Desert is pure rng cancer. I just like Kim hyungtaes art style, it was why I started playing in the first place, to play in a world with his art and influence. Many of my friends were the same way but all quit because all of them said this:

 

The game is too hard.

 

I would think people would want to have the game last as long as possible, but it won’t if it can’t keep newer players due to the difficulty in easy mode. And it’s not like we are asking for much, just remove ALL instadeath mechs from easy and save those for the higher skilled content.

 

@Ahrok. Thx for the vid. Always thought the columns were random. At least now I know where to stand :3

Edited April 14, 2020 by Li Eunmi

[Arohk]

Just play the game, experience comes with time, practice makes the Master, but there is no point in complaining about mechanics jsut because you die a few times, take your time and learn them.

25 minutes ago, Li Eunmi said:

Look at ffxiv. The game is super easy to play. As a result, it has the largest active player base on the mmo scene. It saves the most difficult content for those few willing to do it to raids, savage, extreme and ultimate

The difficulty of FF14 is low because it's combat painfully slow, i have played it for a little bit, up to lvl 70 or so but my subscription ran out before i got into endgame, maybe it gets more challenging later?

Final fantasy is a huge Franchise to begin with, thats also why it has a lot of players, it borrows from all over the Final fantasy and Square Enix universe, for example Nier Automata has an own story line and raid there.

FF14 also has difficult bosses i had to learn the mechanics, we wiped a few times in those 1 boss raids before everyone understood what to do and then we beat it.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Arohk

[Nemises]

19 hours ago, Amarathiel said:

It just depends on what kind of dungeon difficulty developers want and for how many people that kind of difficulty is going to be appealing. As an example, Dark Souls or Sekiro are games not meant for every player as they are difficult games, designed for people who want that kind of thing. Same would go for MMO games, depends on for who it is intended for.

A real easymode/normalmode/hardmode with different item versions could solve this problem. At the moment everyone is legendary equipped no matter the dungeonmode, where are the blue and purples gone? Just put them into easymode and normalmode. That's a way for the players to play all dungeons, get better gear, but still have a motivation to try out the next difficulty stage from time to time.

In general I think, the game has become to easy on mechanics for me. There were interesting, demanding mechanics like in Naryu Sanctuary. I would gladly see some mechanics that are demanding like that again... so in HM ofc.

18 hours ago, Li Eunmi said:

Many of my friends were the same way but all quit because all of them said this:

The game is too hard.

I know many players who left, because the game has become to easy (replaced the dungeon learning time with brainless grinding time). So it seems no one is really happy about the current situation.

[Eclipse4598]

On 14/04/2020 at 3:53 AM, NorbertTheOpinionated said:

Cathedra Cliffs: 1st boss. Block the lines or wipe the whole party... on easy mode. Warped Citadel: Stay out of the instant death zone or you die on easy mode. (That won't wipe the whole party, but YOU will die if you don't do it.) Hangar 0 - 1st boss: Do tic tac toe with him, or wipe the whole party again... on easy mode.

 

DST boss 1 is probably the only place you have to pay attention to mechanics huh? Why are people saying there aren't instant death moves on easy mode? Then when I point out Dream Song Theater, they say, "Oh... well... ok so 1, but... excuses." No! More than 1. Also, pointing out that VT, BT, Botany, Hong, Mao, etc aren't easy mode dungeons doesn't invalidate my point either just because they aren't easy mode because it counts as a raid. By the way, also, let's not forget throne of oblivion. That has an instant wipe if you don't balance the light-dark gauge.

 

I don't approve of instant death mechanics unless it is part of something that is supposed to be real hard. I don't care if it is easy to avoid them. "It is easy to avoid them" isn't justification for them. You know what also isn't justification for them? "Just burst the boss down, so you don't have to deal with the mechanics." What if you are someone who is in the dungeon who actually SHOULD be in the dungeon? Do all of you people understand how hard these bosses are if you are a person who is the appropriate gear level to actually be fighting them? That is to say - you are in the dungeon, and you actually need the drops in the dungeon. For example: The soul shield pieces drop, and you actually put them on because it is an upgrade for you. You know - the people who the dungeon was actually meant for rather than the people who are just there to steam roll it in less than 10 minutes because it is part of a daily or something.

 

This "get good" mentality I see on this forum a lot is absurd. "Just burst it!" Bursting the boss down isn't "getting good." That doesn't have anything to do with skill. It is just getting geared enough that you don't have to "get good." "Just burst it" isn't a good answer. It is a functional answer, but not a "good" answer. The design of the game should be better such that you don't have to burst it.

 

Now onto my own post:

 

See this title? Den Master

 

https://puu.sh/FxaSg/2d943b3334.png

 

I am good enough to beat Mao, and I did it without TT gear. I am here advocating on behalf of the majority of people who either aren't good enough, don't have the time, or don't want to, and frankly... shouldn't have to. I have beat Mao, and even though I can do it, I am saying that boss is bad for the game. It is too hard. People shouldn't have to deal with nonsense like that. It is a game. It is supposed to be fun. Smashing my head against a wall for 4 days to learn to beat Mao isn't "fun." (Some classes have a harder time of it than others too by the way.) "Just pay NCsoft a bunch of money, and kill her in 30 sec! That will make it easier." No! That isn't the correct answer. "Just grind for a year and then overpower her in 30 seconds." NO! That isn't the correct answer either. "NCsoft offers an easy mode, hard mode, and maaaaaybe a normal mode for dungeons like this, but still lets you earn your tokens so progression isn't gated behind something more than 50% of people aren't going to do. However, they don't give you the title/achievement unless you do it on hard, which is actually hard." THERE is the correct answer. The dog and the deer bosses before Mao are about as hard as easy mode bosses should ever get.

 

I want to give NCsoft credit in this most recent event for allowing people to buy the Den of the Ancient's orbs even though I didn't need it because I am certain a lot of people did. That was a good move on NCsoft's part.

 

Furthermore, I'll say it again. No one shot mechanics on easy mode stuff please! I don't care if it is easy to avoid it. That isn't justification for it. No one-shots. I have already suggested alternatives in my previous posts. You want hard mode? I agree! I think hard mode should be a thing! I am not against that, but no one shots in easy mode, and everything should have an easy mode.

 

Here is another problem. If I point out that I have beaten Mao even with weak gear, then people will say, "See!? You can beat Mao, so it isn't too difficult! Therefore there are no problems!" At the same time, if I can't beat Mao, people say, "You're just a scrub, you need to git gud!" According to this, if you can beat her, it's fine, and if you can't beat her it is still fine. The problem with this is that, using this logic, under no circumstances is anything ever a problem based on its difficulty no matter how easy or hard it is. That is ridiculous.

 

You know what the real thing going on here is though? Selfishness. It is only too hard if YOU (whoever, anyone that is reading this) can't beat her. If YOU can beat her, but someone else can't, they just need to get good, but if YOU can't beat her, then she is too hard. Right? That is how most people's brains actually work. That is bad logic.

 

"If 90% of people can't beat her without way over-gearing it, then she is too hard for easy mode. There should be an easy mode, and more than 50% of people should be able to beat her within 1 evening of repeatedly trying on easy mode with appropriate level gear." That is good logic.

 

Remember the realm-rift supply chain event, where people were gear-equalized, and were complaining about how they can't even beat Poharan because their whale gear isn't helping them? You know what that means? It means a lot of these geared people aren't actually half as good as they thought they were in terms of skill. Yeaaaaaah.

 

You see we have WAY too many people who want to climb a ladder, and get help on the way up, but then when they get to the next level, they want to kick the ladder down so others can't climb it rather than help others up. Instead the person at the top wants to lord some kind of status over the lower ones even though they received help getting to the top. It is hypocritical. This is bad. There are also people who object to things getting easier. "I had to do this back when it was hard, so therefore you should too!" "I had to walk to school in the snow, uphill... both ways, so you should too even though we have buses now." No! Even though I had to do something the hard way, improvements happen. Advances happen. That is how the world works. Making something better is usually good, and it is not right for me to want someone new to have to suffer through something annoying just because I did. Therefore, it is not right for you to want that either.

 

Let me tell you a story about something that happened in another MMO: Game company releases new dungeon. Dungeon requires a certain mechanic to be completed or the whole party fails (Dungeon wipe.) The mechanic: There are 3 nodes arrayed around a circular room in a triangle pattern at 6 o clock, 10 o clock, and 2 o clock. The nodes are these pillars that stick out of the ground. Someone needs to go to a pillar and interact with it (press F and just channel it) repeatedly for the first half of the dungeon. This needs to be done for 2 out of the 3 nodes. If you fail to interact with the node when you are supposed to... party wipe. The problem is that interacting with it takes about 30 seconds each time, and interacting with it causes monsters to appear, which will attack you. Therefore, you need someone to defend the people interacting with the nodes. The other 3 people need to defend the 2 people interacting with the nodes. As soon as 1 point of damage is dealt to an incoming enemy, which approaches slow like a zombie, it will totally ignore the person interacting with the node pillar, and the enemies are easy to kill. Therefore, realistically, you only need 2 people to understand what to do in this dungeon (those people interact with the nodes). The other 3 can just brain dead DPS to defend the 2 channeling the pillars. So even though you only need 2 people to know what to do to accomplish this dungeon... you know what the failure rate on this dungeon was? 85%. Why? Because you couldn't even find 2 people per party who were willing to not pew pew. Everyone always wanted to brain dead DPS, and not interact with the node, but doing DPS attracts the attention of the zombies to you while you are channeling. All you have to do is channel the node, and let the other person defend you! 2 people need to do this. That's all you have to do! And yet... 85% failure rate. My point? "It's easy" doesn't mean the majority of people can do it.

 

The game company stuck to their guns. They didn't think it was that hard, and it wasn't. They said, "Well you people are going to have to learn." 9 months later, they released a "happy birthday to our game" statistic report on various things. You know what the failure rate on that same dungeon was? 85%. 9 months. The community didn't learn. I personally tried to explain it many times. Nope. All it would have taken was watching a 15 minute video on how to do the dungeon. Did people do that? No. Instead, people got frustrated and quit until the company finally buckled after having lost enough money from losing players, and made the dungeon simpler - start at point A. Proceed to point B. Kill boss. Collect treasure. The community never learned. They aren't going to. As a game developer, you need to accept this, and design around it - or lose players.

 

We don't need to be losing players in a game that is down to 1 server. You don't want to see NCsoft shut down Blade and Soul in the NA region, and lose your character, or have to play on a server with 250+ms latency do you? No? Then we need to appeal to a larger player base. You want me to say it bluntly? That means we need easy mode to be easier to appeal to brain dead american potatoes who this game is too hard for because we need their money to keep it running! They can play easy mode while we play normal or hard mode. The game doesn't appeal to a wide enough player demographic if it requires skill.

 

I don't think a lot of people understand how truly bad the vast majority of gamers are at video games. There are reasons why simplistic, brain dead mobile games are popular - most gamers aren't very skilled. I am NOT suggesting there not be a hard mode, or that hard mode shouldn't actually be hard. I am suggesting that easy mode should actually be easy, not have instant death mechanics and if you think that easy mode already is easy, then you need to realize how many people can't do it without being carried. How much sense does it make for a game company to spend tons of time and money and developmental effort making content that most of the player base won't complete, and in some cases, wont even see? Take for example that NCsoft has to invest time, money effort to make a hard mode of a dungeon. What percentage of the player base does hard mode dungeons? Go to F8 and look for how many posts there are for Hard Mode this-or-that dungeon. You DO need hard mode though because if you don't have it, then when people do want that challenge, if it isn't available, they will quit because the game is too easy.

 

It IS necessary to have versions of stuff that is actually hard, but that stuff shouldn't gate progression. It should just give those that accomplish it some fancy shiny thing, or title, or flag or whatever to wave around that everyone can see that means, "I am awesome," not actual power. The best players in the game don't need MORE power to widen the gap even more between them and normal players. The fact that they were able to do the hard thing is already proof they are the best. Recognition of that is enough. Yes, I understand that even more power than other people can get is what they want, but they shouldn't have it. They will disagree, but they know it is true too, not that they will admit it. They don't just want a title or outfit or sparkly thing that shows how good they are. They want more power, and to easily kill people who aren't on their level even easier than they already can, and that is not ok. If they are so good, then why do they need even MORE power to make it even easier for them?

 

People are saying, "But XYZ is just so easy, so it's fine!" Really? Here is an experiment for you if you are a person who believes that: Use some low-gear power alt character of yours. Don't use your clan. Go to the dungeon lobby, and start advertising for Dream Song Theater, but say, "No burst. Actually do mech." Go ahead and see how that goes for you. What? Oh... you couldn't get anyone to do it with you, or it took over an hour, or ... maybe you wiped multiple times, and people kept quitting, and you had to get more, and go back to the lobby over and over, and keep remaking the dungeon? I was told that doing mech was just so easy according to this forum thread. It's not? Hmm, but it is easy mode, and I was told that you don't have to worry about mech on easy mode! Wait... that is only true when people completely over-gear the dungeon? Oh well. I guess I was right after all.

 

Now probably watch people disagreeing with me as if I didn't address their counter-point in this post already because they can't even be bothered to read the whole thing.

 

 

CC+ should need mechs because they are current content and should be ignored sorry this is true but it is the consequence of putting power boosts in an easy mode also at the appropiate gear for CC you will likely ignore boss 1 mech anyway due to dmg/acidently doing it.

 

The mech for WC is so simple if you can't do it you have bigger problems than not bieng able to do the mech such as being blind

 

All the raids do invalidate your point and in your next paragraph say "i disagree unless something is meant to be real hard". These are RAIDS aka the end game content of MMOs they are the "real hard" stuff sure they are outdated and can be burst but back in the day they were the hardest stuff. Even the pleb raids should need some mechs and they do its a watered down version of the actual bosses an ok learning tool for one or two keys mechs.

 

DST is still an exception and not a norm.

 

I agree bursting isnt getting good but your saying people shouldn't need to get good which for endgame content they should

 

I know some classes have a harder time ive beaten mao on every class (though not every spec) including while being severly undergeared on the general its pretty easy once you learn her pattern and her mech which isnt even hard.

 

No there should not be an easy mode as solo dungs are generally a test of your skill sure you can overgear them but you can also do them while undergeared no one who needs to do mao cannot beat mao they are just to lazy to try if they want an easy time they SHOULD have to progress through the game more thats how MMOs work. Its like the mage tower in WoW it was BRUTAL undergeared but not to bad once you got decent gear and learnt it. Want to know something else? The mage tower was loved by most who did it as it was challenging solo but fair and could be overgeared. Also when not bursting i generally find the deer harder than Mao soooo.

 

The DoA orb should not have been purchasable if you can't beat mao with the gear given thats your problem for refusing to watch a 10 min video. TT and ET should be however as they are raids and cannot be solved by just watching a vid

 

Ok you dont really have a point here you said you can beat mao with bad gear (good for you) but if you can't you get mocked. Well if you can beat it undergeared so can anyone if they commit to it or they should get to an appropiate gear level first (reccomended not 30 second burst)

 

Thats how the human brain works people will find different things challenging but they can get good and overcome it with practice of course someone who cant beat something will find it hard if they didn't find it hard they would be able to do it first try

 

Thats the players fault for being lazy let me tell you a story again another MMO called WoW you have probaly heard of it. In xpac we had 2 years ago they released a solo dungeon type thing called the mage tower it required mechs and was tailored differently to each class and spec though some had it easier than others. It was brutually challenging had a lot of tough mechanics and many could not beat it at first. Some complained. However some beat it when it was released through sheer skill and willpower. Others waited for gear it gave them an easier time but they still had to do mechs and know their class. However people worked hard and overcame it now it is loved and gone (ended with xpac). People are now complaining there is nothing similar to it. These are 2 different outcomes based on 2 different types of people The MMO you mentioned just had a lazy populace. Most of BnS do learn and those who don't rant on forums the game won't die due to hard mechs because most are okay with them. As a game dev you should stick to your vision and not let idiots push you around or those who love you most will leave and your game becomes shitty boring and and empty a mere husk those who want stuff easier will quit because they don't want to stick around for the game they want stuff for free and when they get it will quit but you have also lost hardcore fans. The casual audience should not be the primary focus EVER.

 

There are quite a few games with not many servers eg SWTOR but it still has players one server dosnt mean a dead game although bns is dwindling. Those players WILL quit eventaully anyway because they are a casual audience not truly invested in the game losing players is inevitable.

 

Appealing to a wide demographic isnt the answwer because you stray to much from the core a focused demograhpic likes. For example destiny 1 at launch was ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ because it tried to appeal to to many people. Again a casual audience who cannot learn mechs are unlikely to invest money or time and will likely quit anyway how do we know this again back to WoW the game has become more ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ overtime back in classic it required effort that dwindled over time and hardcore players left casuals also left because they were never invested to begin with thats why the mage tower was so popular it was actually challenging. Thats why classic was successful because it catered to a hardcore playerberase and said ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ you to casuals some actually enjoyed it.

 

Easy mode is easy if you think its not you truly are braindead. The only exception is DST again an exception not a norm (and for the record this should be changed DST should be more fitting) WC is common sense of dont stand in glowy ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ which is a basic mech in most MMOs if theres fire why would you want to stand in it also the WC mech if you do somehow ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ it up is something you are unlikely to ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ up again because its easy to identify what you did wrong (there is an attack indicator for it btw something you are taught to avoid from day 1 do you want bosses do lose attacks to? Just make them chests you beat up for loot blindly?) and you are unlikely do do wrong again maybe 1 or 2 times more if you have the mental function of a pea.

 

NC also has to invest time making easy dungeons which btw never used to exist before mechs did wipe your group in normal so that argument is bullshit also they dont need to invest time to make HM its a case of turning up damage mechs are in EM they just dont oneshot when ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ up.

 

Harder ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ should grant more power that is a basic premise of any RPG or MMO. People like getting cool shiny gear that makes stuff easier thats why games like WoW have hard and mythic modes that grant awsome rewards. Cosmetics are opinions and loot drives a game everyone wants more power not all want some costume (btw this game already gives all powerful loot on easy mode). Getting more power from harder content makes people want to do it because it makes the content easier this is a fact shown by 90% of loot based games if this wasnt the case WoW diablo Destiny the Division etc etc would have died out ages ago they revolve around getting cool ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ that makes you stronger and makes it easier to get more cool ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ making it easier to get more cool ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ that is the cycle of loot based RPGs.

 

Challenge accepted. I did that by getting a lot of bad geared player off /f who needed DST and told them to watch a guide on DST (while i was on my alt) sure we wiped once or twice but we did it and it wasn't to challenging.

 

There i read your entire post worked through the god awful wording of some your paragraphs and provided a counter point for nearly every point you made in a decent way in my opinion.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 16, 2020 by Eclipse4598

[NorbertTheOpinionated]

11 hours ago, Eclipse4598 said:

All the raids do invalidate your point and in your next paragraph say "i disagree unless something is meant to be real hard". These are RAIDS aka the end game content of MMOs they are the "real hard" stuff sure they are outdated and can be burst but back in the day they were the hardest stuff.

I have to disagree with this. If the raid is required to get your weekly quests done such as Hall of the Templar, it should be considered an easy mode thing.

 

11 hours ago, Eclipse4598 said:

I agree bursting isnt getting good but your saying people shouldn't need to get good which for endgame content they should

Almost. To be specific. I'm saying people shouldn't need to get good for "easy mode" end game content. Normal and hard mode requiring some skill and then lots of skill is fine.

 

11 hours ago, Eclipse4598 said:

No there should not be an easy mode as solo dungs are generally a test of your skill sure you can overgear them but you can also do them while undergeared no one who needs to do mao cannot beat mao they are just to lazy to try

Well it is alright if that is how you feel, but I simply have to disagree. Also, yes you did have to do Mao if you wanted that necklace. (Thought that has recently been handed out in this event, but a month ago, it wasn't like that for a long time.) The reason I feel there should be an easy mode for Mao is BECAUSE gear progression was gated behind it. You had to earn Den of the Ancients tokens to get gear piece to enhance and start the next line. If they took the gear gating aspect out of it, I would be ok with not having an easy mode for it. As it stood, if you were a player not good enough to beat Mao... I guess that is the end of the line for that particular gear slot, which is not good.

 

11 hours ago, Eclipse4598 said:

The DoA orb should not have been purchasable if you can't beat mao with the gear given thats your problem for refusing to watch a 10 min video.

I am going to have to strongly disagree completely even though I didn't need it.

 

11 hours ago, Eclipse4598 said:

Ok you dont really have a point here you said you can beat mao with bad gear (good for you) but if you can't you get mocked. Well if you can beat it undergeared so can anyone if they commit to it or they should get to an appropiate gear level first (reccomended not 30 second burst)

I request that NCsoft release stats on what % of max level characters have the "Fighting the Moonlight" achievement. In other words what is the % of level 60 characters that have beaten M'ao. If it is less than 50%, I say you are wrong. I bet it is less than 50%.

 

 

11 hours ago, Eclipse4598 said:

of course someone who cant beat something will find it hard if they didn't find it hard they would be able to do it first try

That is simply not true in many cases.

 

11 hours ago, Eclipse4598 said:

the game won't die due to hard mechs because most are okay with them.

Most are ok with hard mech? Most of whoever is left right now maybe, but that is a small percentage compared to everyone who left already. We used to have over 10 servers. We are now down to less than 1/10 of what we used to have. Apparently, the game is NOT ok the way it is right now. The game is not super healthy right now.

 

Also, the game functions psychologically, largely on what is the equivalent of reverse-envy. "Look at me! I am proud of my character!" If all the little fish quit, the whales will quit too because the game will feel empty. They won't be able to get queue times reasonably, and they won't have anyone to show off to, or lord their achievements over.

 

Consider this: Ok, so a person beats a single player game, and "saved the world." They have the save files to prove it. Maybe it was pretty hard. Does anyone care? Not really. They beat a video game that they played by themself in a lonely room, interacting with an electronic device. That is what happened in real life. That is what a game like B&S devolves into without a sufficiently large community that cares about it. It really isn't ok to lose everyone but the hardcore. Right now we are too close to the borderline of when the game becomes dysfunctional due to an insufficient player-base for my liking, and we need to be doing everything we can to get people back, instead of crossing our arms and saying, "Get hardcore or get out." 

 

Side note: People keep mentioning Dark Souls. This isn't Dark Souls!

 

11 hours ago, Eclipse4598 said:

As a game dev you should stick to your vision and not let idiots push you around or those who love you most will leave and your game becomes shitty boring and and empty a mere husk

Stick to their vision... like this? https://www.bladeandsoul.com/uk/news/business-model-revealed/

I would agree with sticking to their vision.

 

11 hours ago, Eclipse4598 said:

those who want stuff easier will quit because they don't want to stick around for the game they want stuff for free and when they get it will quit but you have also lost hardcore fans. The casual audience should not be the primary focus EVER.

You have a point there. The casuals are pretty flaky: "Newer is better because it is newer and that means more advanced! Hehe! *snort*" They'll come in a wave just because the game is newly launched, play it for 3-6 months and then leave because it is 6 months old, as little sense as that makes.

 

11 hours ago, Eclipse4598 said:

There are quite a few games with not many servers eg SWTOR but it still has players one server dosnt mean a dead game although bns is dwindling. Those players WILL quit eventaully anyway because they are a casual audience not truly invested in the game losing players is inevitable.

SWTOR didn't have to be in the miserable condition it is in now. That is squarely on the hands of the company running it. It is their fault for mismanaging that game. That game had a lot of potential. Very sad.

 

 

11 hours ago, Eclipse4598 said:

Thats why classic was successful because it catered to a hardcore playerberase and said ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ you to casuals some actually enjoyed it.

WoW classic wasn't popular for that reason. It was popular because it was actually good compared to all the other MMO's out at the time, and revolutionized the MMORPG market, showing a bunch of companies how to make a proper game - how it should be; not because it was hardcore. Yes it had some hardcore content (Ragnaros, C'Thun), but that wasn't why it did well.

 

11 hours ago, Eclipse4598 said:

WC is common sense of dont stand in glowy ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ which is a basic mech in most MMOs if theres fire why would you want to stand in it also the WC mech if you do somehow ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ it up is something you are unlikely to ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ up again because its easy to identify what you did wrong

I noticed you took the easy pickings, and neglected to mention Hangar 0.

 

11 hours ago, Eclipse4598 said:

NC also has to invest time making easy dungeons which btw never used to exist before mechs did wipe your group in normal so that argument is bullshit also they dont need to invest time to make HM its a case of turning up damage mechs are in EM they just dont oneshot when ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ up.

Language please. Language.

 

11 hours ago, Eclipse4598 said:

(btw this game already gives all powerful loot on easy mode).

No it doesn't. Psyches. Realistically, if you want these, you need to do hard mode. If you want Scarlet Conservatory gear, you need to do Scarlet Conservatory, and that is definitely not easy mode.

 

11 hours ago, Eclipse4598 said:

Challenge accepted. I did that by getting a lot of bad geared player off /f who needed DST and told them to watch a guide on DST (while i was on my alt) sure we wiped once or twice but we did it and it wasn't to challenging.

Post the video, or it didn't happen. Also, how long did it take? Are you willing to do that every single time you want to run DST for your daily quests? I am sure you understand that you would have to teach people every single time if you want to try to run DST this way because there would never be a point where you have taught everyone, and they simply know it. If you are not willing to teach it every time because it would be a horrible chore, then that proves my point: It is not reasonable to do mech every time you want to do the dungeon.

 

11 hours ago, Eclipse4598 said:

There i read your entire post worked through the god awful wording of some your paragraphs and provided a counter point for nearly every point you made in a decent way in my opinion.

I actually do really appreciate you taking the time to make point by point commentary, but to be fair, have you proof-read your own post? Do you understand how horrendously hypocritical it is to criticize my wording? Otherwise, I can see we are coming from very different places, and I find it unlikely we will find very much common ground, but that is ok. I still acknowledge your opinion as a vote as a player of this game that we both like.

 

 

Edited April 16, 2020 by NorbertTheOpinionated

[Eclipse4598]

4 hours ago, NorbertTheOpinionated said:

 

No it doesn't. Psyches. Realistically, if you want these, you need to do hard mode. If you want Scarlet Conservatory gear, you need to do Scarlet Conservatory, and that is definitely not easy mode.

 

 

 

 

I mean yeah psyches are nice to have but they are not part of your core gear progression they are more like gems from other MMOs. Thats true i should have said most gear but you can get the pve equivilvant of ET (atleast weapon) without ET

 

4 hours ago, NorbertTheOpinionated said:

 

I noticed you took the easy pickings, and neglected to mention Hangar 0.

 

 

 

 

I did at the start i said i beleive CC+ should be ignored and shouldnt follow that rule as they are current endgame dungeons when new access are released im sure they will be nerfed

 

4 hours ago, NorbertTheOpinionated said:

Post the video, or it didn't happen. Also, how long did it take? Are you willing to do that every single time you want to run DST for your daily quests? I am sure you understand that you would have to teach people every single time if you want to try to run DST this way because there would never be a point where you have taught everyone, and they simply know it. If you are not willing to teach it every time because it would be a horrible chore, then that proves my point: It is not reasonable to do mech every time you want to do the dungeon.

 

 

 

Didn't record so sorry. All in all around 30 mins mostly finding people. Would i personally? No because i run my dailies with my clan and we are at thte gear to were we burst. I am always willing to teach mechs for a dungeon if it do PUG it. It is resonable to do the mech the issue is no one knows it because all burst it . Again DST is an exception not a norm although it exists yes it should be changed to other dungeons

 

4 hours ago, NorbertTheOpinionated said:

 

 

Almost. To be specific. I'm saying people shouldn't need to get good for "easy mode" end game content. Normal and hard mode requiring some skill and then lots of skill is fine.

 

 

Thats fair but to me there never should be easy end game content its end game it shouldn't be easy. Lower than endgame sure you can have easy mode

 

 

Thats about all i have time to say this morning because i've got to gfo to work. Also no i dont proof read my posts and i also don't see how its hipocritical? I agree we come from 2 very different places when it comes to game design