Cowards devs/staff

[ImoutoMaster]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb Grimoir:

Well yes, but as with almost all other games the makers decide, whether it appeals to the players or not.

My point is its their job to appeal to the community otherwise its a failed project. I dont play any of their other games althout i liked this Moba game they had for a short time.

vor 11 Stunden schrieb Grimoir:

Yes i agree with you, but thats the problem, most players focus too much on the soul, thinking thats super important, while in reality it isnt. It is a nice boost, but if you do not have the rest of the gear to support the damage output, the soul is pretty much a wasted upgrade.

Looking at my gear i always wonder why i can only do like 4.7 Million burst and stable like maybe up to 3.3 Million while others with similar gear but better heart have like stable 5 Million. Soul is definetly not what you should be looking for.

[YungBlaze]

The fact y'all still even playing this game and giving y'all money to them is why they continue to do what they are doing. Stop spending your money and playing their game.

[Noface007]

2 minutes ago, YungBlaze said:

The fact y'all still even playing this game and giving y'all money to them is why they continue to do what they are doing. Stop spending your money and playing their game.

Well the mega whales will NEVER stop spending, this game has them all in. I'm not sure if Ncsoft and NCwest has a very clear picture of the MMOs that will be going out this year. MANY are aimed right at the player base BnS attracts. If they don't do something for the middling players soon these games WILL kill BnS. Without middling and new players even the mega whales will quit because they won't have anyone left to impress and beat up on with their p2w accounts. 

[EasleyRR]

On 20/02/2020 at 10:25 AM, Grimoir said:

To be honest....you should not talk about new players because if a new player starts the game, the current adjusted costs will be seen as "normal" for them as they never experienced it differently. So i wouldnt say it "hurts" new players, since they never knew better in the first place.

 

anyway, looking at the recent adjustments to things it seems they want to promote progression instead of people waiting for reductions and then progress.

Ofc they never knew better and will be know any new player who start it.

Recentlly, when i started playing again, ii bring 4 friends to play with me, and they barely played for a month before going to Lost ark, even with me helping them with dungeons+VT(i even took them to msp so they could farm TT soulshield), cause the progression was terrible and not friendly to new players...

Not to mention they blamed alot the game optimiization, and all of them having high end PCs... and guess what? their experience was terrible...

[YungBlaze]

2 hours ago, Noface007 said:

Well the mega whales will NEVER stop spending, this game has them all in. I'm not sure if Ncsoft and NCwest has a very clear picture of the MMOs that will be going out this year. MANY are aimed right at the player base BnS attracts. If they don't do something for the middling players soon these games WILL kill BnS. Without middling and new players even the mega whales will quit because they won't have anyone left to impress and beat up on with their p2w accounts. 

I agree with you 100% 

[blooash23]

On 2/22/2020 at 5:32 AM, Grimoir said:

In all honesty, i do not need people to agree with me or disagree with me. Everything posted on forums is just different views and opinions.  They fall in line with what others think or may not, but that does not automatically disqualify them. If i present my opinion to you i will tell you why i think so. It doesn't mean that's how it is and you are wrong. That would be a pretty shallow way of thinking.

 

In all honesty, please don't quote me anymore then because I am tired of your never end attitude of 'any other problem is player problem, not NC problem, you should never complain/blame them, just live with it' kind of thing.

Since you don't intend to 'realize' that majority doesn't agree with you and you still think you are right over many cases. That is annoying for people.

It is fine to agree to disagree, but don't sound like you are the 1 most right when 99 other man think otherwise, it gives wrong impression to others.

For me I will just stop and keep quiet if 99 other people disagree with me and I will put a big mirror on my face and reflect on myself whether my thinking is correct or not, like that I evolve to be a better person.

Edited February 24, 2020 by blooash23

[blooash23]

On 2/21/2020 at 9:49 PM, ImoutoMaster said:

Sorry but this time i have to agree with him. Its not hard earning gold in this game and while Oils are nice in Events its not like new players are limited by this its still only like 10 oils till True Cosmic which is a pretty good soul already.

It is hard earning gold for new player when you dont have other income other than f8 dailies and getting kicked out from all DST and above.

Without knowing anyone and any friend to help you.

You said you self people might play for fun, where is the fun without knowing anyone? (NEW PLAYER aka totally new, not being carried by friends)

 

Good for you if you didn't go through that phase, which prob means you were carried by friends at the start of playing this game, or you played  since 4 years ago, or 3 years ago when Naryu Sanctum was still 15g or because no one kicks you for doing Avalanche Den as daily and you can get your daily challanges completed easily. And oil price was 180-200g.

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by blooash23

[Grimoir]

4 hours ago, blooash23 said:

In all honesty, please don't quote me anymore then because I am tired of your never end attitude of 'any other problem is player problem, not NC problem, you should never complain/blame them, just live with it' kind of thing.

Since you don't intend to 'realize' that majority doesn't agree with you and you still think you are right over many cases. That is annoying for people.

It is fine to agree to disagree, but don't sound like you are the 1 most right when 99 other man think otherwise, it gives wrong impression to others.

For me I will just stop and keep quiet if 99 other people disagree with me and I will put a big mirror on my face and reflect on myself whether my thinking is correct or not, like that I evolve to be a better person.

This has 0 to do with being right or wrong. If i say something i always repoly why i think the way i do, that does not mean thats how it is. Others may have different points of view.

Whether 99 people disagree with me doesnt matter if i think what i say is right in my view. If you cannot defend your own opinion regardless how many players disagree you shouldnt be saying anything cause it will jsut get lost in the turmoil.

 

And then when people lack actual arguments to counter you will see the "white knight" excuse popping up everywhere. Thats how internet works.

[pingal1ty]

On 21/2/2020 at 8:34 AM, Grimoir said:

And yet...there are many players who has not spent a single $ on the game and have near max soul and end game gear....so.....

Can you give links to profiles? Exclude PvP players who get their main source of gold from making 50k hmcoins getting in the top places because that's not something that literally everybody could do.

 

On 21/2/2020 at 8:34 AM, Grimoir said:

The point i am making is that a NEW player, will not come into the game and complain about a cost adjustment while he was not even playing the game, this is why the entire new player argument shouldnt even be here to begin with.

You don't get it, when people mention new players is not about their vision on cost reduction, its about their overall vision on the grindfest they see they have to do in order to get max gear, which shouldn't be exclusive to credit card warriors btw, in other MMORPG I was maxed and never spent a cent, however thanks to me playing hundreds of players got geared and thousands of euros were spent by other players to pay me the gold, which is what should be in bns, a more fair system to everybody and not only to a small percentage of the playerbase like it is right now, making everybody who's not a whale go away from the game even before starting it.

 

On 21/2/2020 at 8:34 AM, Grimoir said:

So unless You enjoy the grinds, and play the game for fun, you will very likely quit, regardless what patches we get. If you base your gameplay on maxing items which you technically do not even need to max to clear all the content in the game, thats your priorities being off.

Wrong again, grind was not designed to be something pleasurable, its designed so you get tired of doing it and shortcut it by throwing money into the game, if you can't see this clearly you're blind, and again gear should be accessible to EVERYBODY, not just whoever enslave his soul forever or whoever has the largest wallet.

 

On 21/2/2020 at 8:34 AM, Grimoir said:

There are plenty ways to make very good gold in the game, and doing dailies is the least effective one. If your gold income is purely based on daily quests, you will not make any gold in the game unless you kill your joy with running multiple alts. Also again, a max soul is not required or even needed for any content and that includes ET.

 

Mind mentioning some of this ways of making gold? Again, maxed stuff should be for everybody, not just for who you think it deserves it.

 

On 21/2/2020 at 8:34 AM, Grimoir said:

The thing is, players cant want anything but ultimately those who made the game decide which direction it goes. Sadly if they have a set vision on what and where they want to go with their product, players complaining will not change their mind. If that were the case we wouldnt be getting any content cause always someone complains about something.

Again wrong, money talks, if people would stop feeding them money they probably would start listening to our needs, but since they make milions in profit from us, even if its only 10% compared to the east market, its way enough to run the service, pay salaries and make earnings, same time they get presence in west market so why would they bother changing anything that works FOR THEM already.

 

And lastly Grimoir and don't take it personal or anything but I read you through this forum for years, you're known as the undercover nc employee, the white knight, etc, but I have a better theory, I think you dream one day they'll hang you a medal in this forum and hire you as moderator or community manager but that will not happen regardless how much you try hard to defend their company.

[Grimoir]

36 minutes ago, pingal1ty said:

Can you give links to profiles? Exclude PvP players who get their main source of gold from making 50k hmcoins getting in the top places because that's not something that literally everybody could do.

Just look on reddit. there was a very detailsed post of many f2p player and how he got to his end game gear. Use the search engine.

 

36 minutes ago, pingal1ty said:

You don't get it, when people mention new players is not about their vision on cost reduction, its about their overall vision on the grindfest they see they have to do in order to get max gear, which shouldn't be exclusive to credit card warriors btw, in other MMORPG I was maxed and never spent a cent, however thanks to me playing hundreds of players got geared and thousands of euros were spent by other players to pay me the gold, which is what should be in bns, a more fair system to everybody and not only to a small percentage of the playerbase like it is right now, making everybody who's not a whale go away from the game even before starting it.

That is purely a player mindset. Not a single raid / dungeon requires you to have full maxed gear. You can literally get everything maxed with just grinding it out. Sure it will take more work and time, but thats how it is. The system is fair. If you can spend money -= you get a shortcut, if you cant spend money = you get a grind, in both cases you progress at your own pace. Players focus far too much on comparing themselves to whales instead of playing the game.

 

36 minutes ago, pingal1ty said:

Wrong again, grind was not designed to be something pleasurable, its designed so you get tired of doing it and shortcut it by throwing money into the game, if you can't see this clearly you're blind, and again gear should be accessible to EVERYBODY, not just whoever enslave his soul forever or whoever has the largest wallet.

It is you who is wrong. I know a lot of players who enjoy grinding games, who like to work for something and achieve it. They do not care if someone spends money or not, they have fun in playing the game as they want it to.  Gear is accessible to EVERYBODY, since everyone can achieve it without even spending a single $ on the game. If you do not see that then you are the blind one here and you purely focus only on the aspect you want of the game.

 

36 minutes ago, pingal1ty said:

Mind mentioning some of this ways of making gold? Again, maxed stuff should be for everybody, not just for who you think it deserves it.

And why would i mention it to you? If you arent smart enough to catch on the many gold making ways, no one is going to tell you cause that cuts profit from themselves. Thats how people make profit, they catch on to whats going on in the game, they check, they calculate and they make profit. Those who cant find and see it, should just stick with their dailies.

And again you are focusing on the "maxed stuff".

 

36 minutes ago, pingal1ty said:

Again wrong, money talks, if people would stop feeding them money they probably would start listening to our needs, but since they make milions in profit from us, even if its only 10% compared to the east market, its way enough to run the service, pay salaries and make earnings, same time they get presence in west market so why would they bother changing anything that works FOR THEM already.

Money doesnt matter here. If it did, devs would have done everything players wanted and suggested to spend more money. If i make a game and its my "baby" that i want to grow into the thing i imagine it to be, i will not look at all the players crying, i will go the direction that i want for my product.

 

36 minutes ago, pingal1ty said:

And lastly Grimoir and don't take it personal or anything but I read you through this forum for years, you're known as the undercover nc employee, the white knight, etc, but I have a better theory, I think you dream one day they'll hang you a medal in this forum and hire you as moderator or community manager but that will not happen regardless how much you try hard to defend their company.

I never take things personal. It amuses me the labels people on the forum give people just because their view and opinion is different. They rather scream "white knight" than go into an actual discussion and defend their points. But hey whatever floats your boat xD

Edited February 25, 2020 by Grimoir

[blooash23]

LOL LOL LOL.

In every thread that I had read, many members are already very reasonable and very objective and give arguments that are understandable for normal people: Complaints about ninja-changing that NC has been doing, complaints about how bad the communication is (the fact that NC/Community people just keep quiet or respond very2 slowly), saying the event is so sucked with clear proof and comparison with previous events, saying why reduce this reward that reward and make it more difficult to obtain what were originally easier to obtain, etc etc.

Out of 100 complaining threads I had read for 2 years+, 99 of them are very reasonable and very understandable, and representing the thinking of most normal players and majority of F2P players.

 

People already argue with clear arguments and reasonable facts every time, which should be responded by NC/Community/Devs with arguments that MAKE SENSE, instead of just KEEPING QUIET or avoiding to respond and YET SAYING THAT they read everything and LISTEN to community.

BUT then someone always comes out with non-sense arguments which are against 99% of the population in forum, and yet that person always do it again and again and of course people get tired of him and label him white-knight. But now someone thinks people call him white-knight just because they don't have enough arguments to counter? Really? People call that person white-knight because people are FED UP with your way of defending people with unreasonable arguments that ARE OPPOSITE to what most people are feeling/thinking.

 

It shows people just want to stop talking to him and yet that person has no shame but keep showing up with non-reasonable arguments that are NO WAY representing the community idea/feeling/thoughts and might mislead other forum silent readers into thinking that there is still 50:50 of population supporting what NC/Devs/company are doing.

 

Yes I write without quoting because I am lazy to quote that person and hopefully he will stop quoting me too if he still has shame and mirror.

Edited February 25, 2020 by blooash23

[ImoutoMaster]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb pingal1ty:

Can you give links to profiles? Exclude PvP players who get their main source of gold from making 50k hmcoins getting in the top places because that's not something that literally everybody could do.

Theese HM coins are a nice boost you have at the end of season sure but the time spent in PVE would give you the same ammount of money probably its just no fun doing the same dungeon 24 hours a day.

 

BTW. i actully think anybody can reach atleast 1600 just play a bit of PVP and train.

1v1 with 12 chars = 24*170 = 4080 HM coins

3v3 with 12 chars = Sorry i dont believe a new player could reach gold here.

6v6 with 12 chars = 24*170 = 4080 HM coins * 3 = 12240

 

So in total: 16320 HM coins

 

So anybody can get atleast 16320 HM coins at the end of season and you dont even have to be good.

 

 

Edit: with new player i dont specificly mean someone who actully just started BNS i mean people who start PVP thats why i calculate with 12 chars sure actual new players will only have like 1 or 2 chars but still if they play PVE and PVP aswell they will earn alot of gold which would bring them very fast to TT Gear.

 

Edit 2: Cause i forgot to count 6v6 3 times.

Edited February 25, 2020 by ImoutoMaster

[Shekinah]

41 minutes ago, ImoutoMaster said:

Theese HM coins are a nice boost you have at the end of season sure but the time spent in PVE would give you the same ammount of money probably its just no fun doing the same dungeon 24 hours a day.

 

BTW. i actully think anybody can reach atleast 1600 just play a bit of PVP and train.

1v1 with 12 chars = 24*170 = 4080 HM coins

3v3 with 12 chars = Sorry i dont believe a new player could reach gold here.

6v6 with 12 chars = 24*170 = 4080 HM coins

 

So anybody can get atleast 9160 HM coins at the end of season and you dont even have to be good.

Well at least you are only counting 6vs6 as one ranking while we actually have 3 ranking lists. But still, you are making an assumption of someone 1.) having 12 characters and 2.) playing all of them to gold rank in arena.

I am always amazed seeing someone saying that reaching gold rank in arena is easy and that you dont have to be good. My only conclusion is that you are so long into pvp that you have no idea anymore how hard it is for a new player to reach gold. Especially with 12 characters.

Though I agree that getting a charater into battleground ranking is possible for almost anyone.

[ImoutoMaster]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Shekinah:

Well at least you are only counting 6vs6 as one ranking while we actually have 3 ranking lists.But still, you are making an assumption of someone 1.) having 12 characters and 2.) playing all of them to gold rank in arena.

I am always amazed seeing someone saying that reaching gold rank in arena is easy and that you dont have to be good. My only conclusion is that you are so long into pvp that you have no idea anymore how hard it is for a new player to reach gold. Especially with 12 characters.

Though I agree that getting a charater into battleground ranking is possible for almost anyone.

Ah yeah you are right i made a mistake counting 6v6 only as one gonna update it above. Anyway getting HM coins is ez af and you dont have to be good to reach silver in 6v6.

 

Yeah you are right i play since release and i would count myselfe as atleast top 5 sf from Europe so of course i have exp and its easy for me but if i can create a class ive never played in my life and still reach gold within 1 day or some hours i dont think someone who is playing their class as main couldnt do the same in 3 months. 

 

All you have to do is seriously play a bit PVP and dont give up immediatly. Maybe watch someone else play who is playing the same class and copy their actions. Of course you are not supposed to go into PVP lobby and magically reach gold after 10 Minutes you have like 3 Months time to learn your class and if you learned it once you will never have problems reaching gold again.

 

I am not saying everyone should force themselve all i am saying is if you want something specific you gonna have to do the specific thing the game tells you to do. For example i want the new Glove can i get it without Hangar ? NO but if i want it i need to run Hangar the same to HM coins. You want HM coins ? Then play PVP thats all.

 

P.S Everything is achiveble without PVP but not without PVE keep that in mind.

[pingal1ty]

10 hours ago, Grimoir said:

Just look on reddit. there was a very detailsed post of many f2p player and how he got to his end game gear. Use the search engine.

reddit is inmense, mind giving a link ?

[Crimhare]

2 hours ago, pingal1ty said:

reddit is inmense, mind giving a link ?

Last story on reddit I saw is about how some guy/girl reached endgame in several months  (last raid) spending only for premium with single character. What everyone forgets when says that 'you need only to play a game, no need to live in it' is a simple thing: common west Joe of mmorpg plays 1-1,5 hour per day, not even every day, and a little bit more on weekend. And west player base consist of 95% such players. Dude from story played 3 hours on weekdays and 8 hours on weekend. Guys, that is hardcore player. It is same story of success as poor honest boy making 1/10/100M by honest  work washing dishes. Of course it is possible, but relative dying and leaving you his money is feasible no less.

Numbers come from developers of one semi popular west mmorpg (forums, streams etc). Some other numbers: only less then 10% of players do dungeons, even less pvp. Those are for game that was rather balanced between quests, RP, pvp, dungeons and solo content. Obviously that differs from game to game.

About why BnS is so... BnS. I read somewhere good article about it. Mentalities of east and west players differ too much: it is normal for east player to pay to win, to progress. So it is understandable that NCS targets their major consumers and payers in the east and we are left as hitchhikers.

[KzE]

1 hour ago, Crimhare said:

Last story on reddit I saw is about how some guy/girl reached endgame in several months  (last raid) spending only for premium with single character. What everyone forgets when says that 'you need only to play a game, no need to live in it' is a simple thing: common west Joe of mmorpg plays 1-1,5 hour per day, not even every day, and a little bit more on weekend. And west player base consist of 95% such players. Dude from story played 3 hours on weekdays and 8 hours on weekend. Guys, that is hardcore player. It is same story of success as poor honest boy making 1/10/100M by honest  work washing dishes. Of course it is possible, but relative dying and leaving you his money is feasible no less.

Numbers come from developers of one semi popular west mmorpg (forums, streams etc). Some other numbers: only less then 10% of players do dungeons, even less pvp. Those are for game that was rather balanced between quests, RP, pvp, dungeons and solo content. Obviously that differs from game to game.

About why BnS is so... BnS. I read somewhere good article about it. Mentalities of east and west players differ too much: it is normal for east player to pay to win, to progress. So it is understandable that NCS targets their major consumers and payers in the east and we are left as hitchhikers.

These reddit guides always skip the part, where the lucky winner get carried. With carry you can do everything even with story gear and reach engame gear in a month or less.

[blooash23]

10 hours ago, KzE said:

These reddit guides always skip the part, where the lucky winner get carried. With carry you can do everything even with story gear and reach engame gear in a month or less.

Agreed. Definitely carried. It's impossible to get endgame gear within one month with only 1 character, and F2P.

How to get 200 oils = 100,000 g in 1 month withh only 1 character and he is new player? Not to mention you have to buy all your Hive queen's hearts + Grand celestial steels from F5 market since only 1 month is impossible to get >100 of them to upgrade to end game gear.

 

[Rephiria]

There is seriously no need to have an IQ over 120 to know how to make your game with a correct and progressive upgrading path.. certainly "new" players doesn't know what used to be the old materials costs in upgrading your soul but as someone said here already, your everyday materials should be used for relevant upgrades and not for something like a 4 years old soul.

 

Made multiple posts here in the past where I already talk about how there's an useless amount of items/upgrade systems that just make this game more "complicated" to manage that shouldn't have been made at all. (psyches, dyad gems, unity stones, etc..)

It only leads to the majority of people talking about "pay 2 win" and how frustrating it is to keep having this kind of items/systems "forced" down the throat. Yeah, when you have a 200 Crit psyche, it's just one psyche.. but then you add one again, and then another one.. and another one, and again.. and you add the total and you do understand that at some point, it does creates too much of a gap.

Realise that even the unity system actually kind of ruined a certain aspect of the game : low lvl PvP aka. alts with 30k hp vs a new player just trying open world pvp.

If you're not here since the game has been released, you'll most likely never really catch up unless you talk real money, everything is pretty much an illusion because the core problem is not fixed and will most likely never be since it's pretty much too late to do so now.