Fridzmaster

Please tell the truth to new players this game is p2w

Recommended Posts

vor 3 Minuten schrieb KzE:

This is the old definition, before the industry created the timewall.

 

The new definition is :

 

Pay to Win is a situation in gaming (usually MMOs or Massively Multiplayer Online games) where companies allow you to buy items or advantages with real money that cannot be obtained normally by playing the game. An exception to the rule is that if an item/advantage can be obtained in-game but the acquisition time is unreasonably long, that can also be considered Pay to Win.

 

 

Thats what i meant. Thanks for sharing. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, KzE said:

Pay to Win is a situation in gaming (usually MMOs or Massively Multiplayer Online games) where companies allow you to buy items or advantages with real money that cannot be obtained normally by playing the game. An exception to the rule is that if an item/advantage can be obtained in-game but the acquisition time is unreasonably long, that can also be considered Pay to Win.

the only thing that might take unreasonably long is awakened legendary unity stones. Then i agree. There's nothing else that takes "unreasonably" long. Like i said compare Korea's bns and EU/NA's bns and tell me again that it's p2w. It's really not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
KzE   
15 minutes ago, Nagisa Yuki said:

the only thing that might take unreasonably long is awakened legendary unity stones. Then i agree. There's nothing else that takes "unreasonably" long. Like i said compare Korea's bns and EU/NA's bns and tell me again that it's p2w. It's really not.

I give you a better comparison : pre lvl 50 EU/NA vs post lvl 50 EU/NA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, KzE said:

I give you a better comparison : pre lvl 50 EU/NA vs post lvl 50 EU/NA.

ofcourse pre was better that's obvious. but this still is not p2w. at most it's pay 2 progress. Trove doesn't give anything u can't farm other than outfits. same with RNG boxes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
KzE   
10 minutes ago, Nagisa Yuki said:

ofcourse pre was better that's obvious. but this still is not p2w. at most it's pay 2 progress. Trove doesn't give anything u can't farm other than outfits. same with RNG boxes.

There is no point to start the game with the words. If you pay, you get power. And i dont really care what some ppl can achieve in their unlimited free time. They are still a small minority and never should be a base for any statement. Its like someone completed a marathon under 2 hours, so everyone can do it from now.

Edited by KzE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vor 2 Minuten schrieb Nagisa Yuki:

Like i said compare Korea's bns and EU/NA's bns and tell me again that it's p2w. It's really not.

And like MANY other players said: it is P2W.

We all play in EU/NA so we judge about our region. And just because KR is more p2w (in your opinion) doesn't make EU/NA region "not P2W".

 

Why is it that hard for you to accept the fact that people have more than your (old) definition of P2W?

 

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Nagisa Yuki:

Trove doesn't give anything u can't farm other than outfits. same with RNG boxes.

I gave you ONE example, but you simply ignored it: Awaken Ascension Stone. SAME with boxes from F10 now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

u're playing an MMO a Korean one aswell u will expect to run a couple marathons. You are bound to need a lot of time to get close to max gear. If u dont have time is that the games fault? That's a reason why there's pay to progress in this game. A lot of people work. okay u don't have time? we give u the option to pay money so u can still enjoy this game. again its an Asian MMO what can u expect. If u dont have them time don't play. If u want to play but don't have time. U have an option to pay. And even then doing ur dailies and weeklies when u can and a couple dungs a week doesn't take that much.

 

U guys acting like it takes ages to get Semi-Max gear like i said which is more than enough to do anything in this game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, CrazyDude90 said:

We all play in EU/NA so we judge about our region. And just because KR is more p2w (in your opinion) doesn't make EU/NA region "not P2W".

I never said that was my argument. I just said. Look at Korea and call EU/NA p2w again.

 

3 minutes ago, CrazyDude90 said:

Why is it that hard for you to accept the fact that people have more than your (old) definition of P2W?

it is literally not, new or old definition of it.

 

and why is it hard for you to accept the difference between u guys's opinion of the time that it takes to get to Semi-Max gear. and mine. I think i have enough experience in gearing in any kind of way to know if it's undoable or not and to be very honest i almost never do pve and i am still able to pull millions of DPS and have a big impact in 6v6.

6 minutes ago, CrazyDude90 said:
51 minutes ago, Nagisa Yuki said:

the only thing that might take unreasonably long is awakened legendary unity stones. Then i agree. There's nothing else that takes "unreasonably" long. Like i said compare Korea's bns and EU/NA's bns and tell me again that it's p2w. It's really not.

gave you ONE example, but you simply ignored it: Awaken Ascension Stone. SAME with boxes from F10 now.

i addressed it here. Maybe read first before u comment on something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

vor 6 Minuten schrieb Nagisa Yuki:

U guys acting like it takes ages to get Semi-Max gear

vor 4 Minuten schrieb Nagisa Yuki:

and why is it hard for you to accept the difference between u guys's opinion of the time that it takes to get to Semi-Max gear. and mine

good that i talked about max gear and not semi-max gear like you.^^

Every "normal" player want to reach max gear and this should be possible in an acceptable and reasonable time imo.

Why should you want to reach 80% when you can reach more?

Many players in MMORPG's want to reach more. And thats fine. Because it is an MMO and its normal that people want to reach max gear.

But in B&S NCWe$t/NC$oft made many parts of the game harder on purpose. A lot people stopped at your called "semi max" gear because the rest is "unreasonably" long.

vor 1 Minute schrieb Nagisa Yuki:

Look at Korea and call EU/NA p2w again.

it is still p2w for people in OUR region. (No matter what KR have).

You compare 2 different regions and 2 different player types. 

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Nagisa Yuki:

I think i have enough experience in gearing in any kind of way to know if it's undoable or not

Trust me. I also have enough experience. I am playing since alpha until now. Without any breaks and without any money spend on gear.^^

 

vor 20 Minuten schrieb Nagisa Yuki:

I never said that was my argument. I just said. Look at Korea and call EU/NA p2w again.

"Look at Korea and call EU/NA p2w again." How it sound to me: -> "look at KR. THAT is P2W not what EU/NA have." Sounds like an argument/statement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

does it matter that much to you to get max gear. Are you that bothered by the; lets count, about 5 people are fully maxed geared cause they like to support this game with money? Lets be honest they need the money. and does it hurt any of the other players to not have semi max gear instead of max? Im talking about semi max gear cause there is close to no reason to get max gear it's not worth it if u're not just wanting to help the game out. imo

Edited by Nagisa Yuki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Arohk   
1 hour ago, Nagisa Yuki said:

the only thing that might take unreasonably long is awakened legendary unity stones. Then i agree. There's nothing else that takes "unreasonably" long. Like i said compare Korea's bns and EU/NA's bns and tell me again that it's p2w. It's really not.

XEAiPY2.jpg

 

creating one of these cost 512 juwel powders, (excluding the cost of the previous gems) 

one powder costs 28 gold right now, thats 14-15k Gold just for one of these, acquiring powder is almost impossible in the regular game, you can basically only buy them for HM coins.

And yet i see people having 6 of these in their weapon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vor 16 Minuten schrieb Nagisa Yuki:

does it matter that much to you to get max gear.

I mean: Why should you not want to achieve everything in a GAME? It's normal. Its a game and no 2nd life and shouldn't be a 2nd "work". Imo.^^

 

vor 16 Minuten schrieb Nagisa Yuki:

Im talking about semi max gear cause there is close to no reason to get max gear it's not worth it if u're not just wanting to help the game out. imo

i understand your point but the majority of players WANT to achieve everything in a GAME. And thats understandable imo. :)

 

vor 6 Minuten schrieb Arohk:

And yet i see people having 6 of these in their weapon.

MANY people. And nearly EVERYONE dont crafted this gems... they got it from trove. and BTW: they have this gems for PVE AND PVP! Absolutly not achievable for the majority of players.

Edited by CrazyDude90

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i dont play pve keep that in mind. i make 15k in 2 maybe if i dont play much 3 weeks. 15k for a Dyad which is not that necesarry. again. MAX GEAR IS OPTIONAL. But lets assume u want it so badly u'll waste ur gold on dyads. honestly i play this game a long time and it's been more than enough to have full tri gems. Again if u want to spend 15k for like 12 more ap. u should do it. If u dont? u're still good to go. it's not like u can't do the newest dungeons.

 

again again and again. that YOU are not trying to put effort into trying to make as much gold as u can is not to blame in the game im sorry.

 

Clan BG is a good way to get gold one of the best actually maybe try it :) u get like 1-1.5k worth of moonstone in 2 hours.

 

u're pointing out such an unnecesary item in this game. BUT AGAIN if for some reason its necesarry for u to have it work for it. It's not unreasonable. IDK i never looked into costs for gems but if it's only 15k im pretty surprised i thought it would be more.

Edited by Nagisa Yuki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, CrazyDude90 said:

i understand your point but the majority of players WANT to achieve everything in a GAME. And thats understandable imo. :)

I TOTALLY understand that because i was like that too, i really wanted to get max of the max everything at its highest, but at some point i think more people will understand it's not necesarry. yea i know it's nto for me to decide what's necesarry for someone, but if it's that necesarry for someone they shouldn't be bothered if they had to spend a lot of time to get it right?

 

u want a Ferrari? Then work for a Ferrari, it's not really necesarry but if u want it u gotta work for it. If u can't get it don't blame the world u can't buy a Ferrari.

 

isn't it better this way? atleast people will feel special who are actually max geared.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vor 7 Minuten schrieb Nagisa Yuki:

i really wanted to get max of the max everything at its highest, but at some point i think more people will understand it's not necesarry. yea i know it's nto for me to decide what's necesarry for someone, but if it's that necesarry for someone they shouldn't be bothered if they had to spend a lot of time to get it right?

necesarry or not: people want it and how said and it's perfectly understandable because its a ****ing GAME. xD
Its not a 2nd life and dont have to be 2nd work to reach everything in a game. Its sad that NC$oft designed the game like this. :(

 

SURE you have to do something for your gear.. and thats totally ok... but the amount of time and effort you have to do in B&S for max gear is ridiculous high. Its simply too much. You CANT reach max gear by simply playing the game because the game is intentionally made so that only paying "customers" reach max gear and the rest do not.. 
Because new gear get released that "fast" that you dont have the "time" to reach the "old" max gear before.
I hope you know what i mean.^^

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Xzard   

P2W is too subjective now.
I don't think this game as a whole is P2W but has some P2W features: Unity System, HM levels and recently SS psyches, those things cannot be maxed in a reasonable amount of time.
But it doesn't mean that you can't enjoy the game without them, it is frustrating yes, but still the game offers tons of content for FREE, $0, which is great.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
KzE   
9 hours ago, Nagisa Yuki said:

u're playing an MMO a Korean one aswell u will expect to run a couple marathons. You are bound to need a lot of time to get close to max gear. If u dont have time is that the games fault? That's a reason why there's pay to progress in this game. A lot of people work. okay u don't have time? we give u the option to pay money so u can still enjoy this game. again its an Asian MMO what can u expect. If u dont have them time don't play. If u want to play but don't have time. U have an option to pay. And even then doing ur dailies and weeklies when u can and a couple dungs a week doesn't take that much.

 

U guys acting like it takes ages to get Semi-Max gear like i said which is more than enough to do anything in this game.

I would give you right, if this was true from the beginning. But no. You was able to get max gear with playing a single character for 2, maybe 3 hours / day. But we got later soul 1,2,3, pet, dual gems, unity system... Ofc there is a reason, why there is pay to progress. Because it gross more, than p2w.  If the majority can enjoy the game only with payments, then yes, its the game fault. What you think, how we lost those 50+ servers? We have now 2 half empty. Yes, i dont play this game anymore. But i will be sad if closes. And again, i am not jelaus of anyone wasted money or time in a videogame. I just want to this game survive, because its unique.

Edited by KzE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just look at AxE Alliance vs Empires. They may be automated, for the processes of upgrading gear, but there is still a p2w element that is fairly compensated. Blade and Soul's model however, is not. It is not whether pay 2 win is defined, as that is semantics. It is the accountability/transparency of NCSOFT, which up until now, there has NOT been a change, or at least my viewpoint of it. And rather, the way we progress through the "ladder" is extremely futile, but with a system that CAN be changed, should. Just Mushin's act is an example of that. Should it be rigid? What is the meaning for the costumes anyways, a set of clothes already that is basically, modified presets from the vanilla outfits, character tones, etc.

 

ps- I've been out for a long while.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This game is pay to progress, but not pay to win... yet.

 

As MMO veteran I played many others/older/korean MMO games before BnS and I can easily say, that BnS have one of the easiest (and maybe best) progression system. Compare to many others MMO i don't need spend 20e/50e/100e per month to even start progressing.

 

Few examples:
Fiesta - 2 years to finally reach max level. it cost me 100e per month in average. double exp boost, no death penalty item and hp/mp boosts were essentials for progression and cost me 30e per month + many other things player needed. 20-30e just enhance one weapon (protection stone to prevent destroying weapon, protection stone to prevent downgrade, stone to get higher chance for success - all this items was store only). AP boost, defense boost, stats boost, everything was available in store for real money. This is pay to win.
Dragon Nest - 1 and half year to reach semi-max gear. 50e per month. Store costumes have permanent additional stats that really help boost your character.

BnS - playing this game actively only 9 months and already have semi-max gear on my main + full VT sets on my alts. And it cost me almost nothing. Sometimes I bought something, but usually costumes. Yes I'm playing 5-6 hours per day in average, but this is how MMO games works. Also clan helped me a lot.

 

CrazyDude90:
And what you will do when you reach max gear? Don't tell me, that you will be enjoying this game same as before.
I have semi-max gear and reached goal I wanted. I don't need max gear to do end game content and because of that I'm already loosing interest. Only I can do now are daily/weekly quests, few raids to get some money/materials and my motivation to play this game going down quickly.

You really want that?

 

P.S.: Sorry for my bad English.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vor 10 Stunden schrieb Shironeko:

And what you will do when you reach max gear? Don't tell me, that you will be enjoying this game same as before.

Thats the thing. How i said many times now.... you cant reach current max gear because the moment you would reach it the new released gear is already months (or much longer) old. So you are always behind. Would be nice to not say something 1kk times (just saying^^ nothing against you! In general). :)

 

vor 10 Stunden schrieb Shironeko:

I have semi-max gear and reached goal I wanted.

Fine for you. But the majority of players want to reach more what they cant because of said reasons.

Its a game and a game should give you the possibility to reach it without money in an acceptable and reasonable time.

Which is not the case here.

 

vor 10 Stunden schrieb Shironeko:

You really want that?

I have definitely more than this "semi max gear" and yes i would want more. I mean.. why not? xD Its a game. Should be reachable... or.... not? :)

 

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Nagisa Yuki:

91d11b74876945092af81640229f1b9e.png

it depends... right.. thats the point... it depends. You cant compare endgame players in endgame clans with endgame gear and their possibilites with the "average" player.

 

Not everyone have a clan that do many sell runs every week with thousands of gold income...

not everyone have 10 alts for dailys and event..

not everyone have the time to play that much every day...

not everyone wants to play the GAME as a 2nd work/life...

.... and so on.

 

When you have all this things and you should use all this things you should realized that there is also a REAL LIFE (i know bad thing!). Its a game (the thing you do instead of RL). :D

 

What you guys do wrong is comparing 2 different types of players with different possibilities, different times and so on.

 

Full F2P and 2.5k....?? good joke. Thats definitely not possible for the average player without many many many help from others, many many many many time and very good "connections" + "possibilities" in this game. SO.. something that not everyone is able to achieve.

vor 10 Stunden schrieb Shironeko:

P.S.: Sorry for my bad English.

Np^^ my english is also bad. :D as long as we understand each other its fine imo. :P

 

 

AGAIN: Its not the thing IF you NEED it.... it should be POSSIBLE to REACH in an acceptable and reasonable time in a ---> GAME <--- . Which isn't the case.

And now i stop repeating.. thats a waste of time to say it again and again and again and again... ^^

 

Its a KR game right.. but that doesn't mean we have to play/like it how it is in KR. Even after the changes they made its far away from good for the western playerbase!

 

Everyone is allowed to have their own opinion about this topic, but if I say "the game is P2W because of reason XYZ" and I get answers like "you don't need this things to play the game", then I would really like to stop the discussion because i cant take this "arguments" serious.

 

There are so many things in your life you also dont need but you buy it... you want it..

 

Why is it that "bad" to want everything in a game (NOT FOR FREE) but without this heavy grindfest and money advantages like in B&S?

So max gear is fine to be "locked" behind €/$? I think its not. Every game advantage with real money is P2W.

 

And i still think that this one is the BEST definition for P2W nowadays:

 

"Pay to Win is a situation in gaming (usually MMOs or Massively Multiplayer Online games) where companies allow you to buy items or advantages with real money that cannot be obtained normally by playing the game. An exception to the rule is that if an item/advantage can be obtained in-game but the acquisition time is unreasonably long, that can also be considered Pay to Win."

Edited by CrazyDude90

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Immunity   
Am 9.1.2020 um 02:25 schrieb Nagisa Yuki:

i dont think this is true. It definitely is pay to progress, if u look at trove nowadays it's just old maths. 16k gold in 2 months? i guess u're just starting. but if u start doing sell raids u'll probly earn more than 16k gold in 2 months. 16k is probly what i get in 1-2 weeks. Arena is equalized and it's about skill u just need to be lvl 60. im free 2 play and i am every season in the top rankings for all ladders of my class. Money will help but in the end for pve it's about how much dungeon runs u do and for pvp how much effort u put into it. Gear is only so much. Skill can comepensate for it to some extend.

but you understand that you can only sell raids because people are buying raids?

and that you are top ranked because others are ranked lower? 

 

if everyone was able to sell raids, nobody would buy. 

if everyone was top ranked, nobody is (ranking would be random). 

 

you can talk about  how easy it is without spending real money because you are already at the top. 

doesnt matter how you got there but everyone else can only catch up (except for arena) by spending real money which is pay2win. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, CrazyDude90 said:

Not everyone have a clan that do many sell runs every week with thousands of gold income...

not everyone have 10 alts for dailys and event..

not everyone have the time to play that much every day...

not everyone wants to play the GAME as a 2nd work/life...

.... and so on.

i'm sorry but then don't play an MMO in all honesty.

1 hour ago, Immunity said:

if everyone was able to sell raids, nobody would buy. 

what stops u from gathering a couple friends and spam faction chat with WTS runs?

1 hour ago, Immunity said:

if everyone was top ranked, nobody is (ranking would be random). 

That's why competition exists. and again being top 15 or top 30 will still get u like 3k hmcoin which are enough to buy those "whale" unity boxes or whatever. U can even buy trove keys. if everyone actually puts effort in learning arena then everyone will be top ranked some higher than others, but everyone will deserve what they've worked and practiced for.

1 hour ago, Immunity said:

you can talk about  how easy it is without spending real money because you are already at the top. 

and you think i got at the top by doing nothing? i already said this i came back late to the game i did what i had to do to catch up with gear and i succeeded. That's why im always triggered at people who say it's p2w. again again and again dont blame the game on something u can't achieve by urself? i wasn't born to be the best gunner in the world (or maybe lul) jkjk but i put actual effort. A LOT. U're playing an MMO. if u're not gonna put effort in it don't play. just being honest. Everyone knows MMO's in general require a lot of time some more than other's but please.

1 hour ago, Immunity said:

doesnt matter how you got there but everyone else can only catch up (except for arena) by spending real money which is pay2win. 

can u explain how i get top rankings in 6v6 then? luck? did an angel fall on my shoulders that others didnt get to win games?

 

u acting like i had the help of a god or something, like "only u can reach it everybody else can't lmao except for arena".

 

This'll be my last reply on this post. It's an MMO if u want max of the max it's not impossible. U guys want it to be easy, unlucky play Guild Wars or something. like @Shironeko said it's really not that hard to get semi-max gear. When u have that it only costs more time to get max gear. Whether it's worth it to spend that much time on MAX gear is ur own choice cuz like i said it's not worth the time. IT TAKES A LOT OF TIME. but it taking a lot of time isn't p2w old or new definition of it whatever. I've seen more than enough people get to max gear without paying 1 cent. Just cuz u dont feel like grinding for months doesn't mean it's impossible.

6 hours ago, CrazyDude90 said:

not everyone wants to play the GAME as a 2nd work/life...

again it's an mmo it's basicly a 2nd work/life, if u dont, either stay at semi max gear or just dont play :/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
KzE   
8 hours ago, Immunity said:

but you understand

I dont think this will happen. But i understand, that there are people who want to feel special because of their wasted time farming in a video game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's the issue with gearing up to max gear too quickly.

 

If a completely new player were to be able to get 100% max gear in about 4-6 months of playing, that new player would stop playing after those months and go play something else because he has now done everything there is to do in the game and would be bored of the game. Most likely. Especially if it takes 3-6 months to get new content, which it usually does. You would have fun with the max gear for couple of weeks or so and then quit the game. Developers don't want that. They want you to play the game way longer than that which is why they make currently max gear be very hard and time consuming to get. Not to mention it's a Korean mmo game designed for Koreans who farm stuff 24/7.

 

When looking at the point of a new player, you are not supposed to get max gear that easily in just couple of months of playing the game casually. Max gear is meant for those who have lots of time or the money to get it(Meaning if you want max gear in a short period of time). That's what mmo games are about in a nutshell. Everyone wants the max gear obviously, that's how p2w and game balancing debates started out to begin with.

 

The option to get the gear with money is obviously meant for people who work say 10 hours a day and don't have time to play much. Or for those who just don't want to actually play the game and skip farming :P. That is why this "p2w" thing exists. To give those people a chance for a price. Common method of business for a free to play game unfortunately. It has bad sides to it also.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now