Nico

A Quick Update From Nico

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Oupy   

how about getting  us skill patches that we're missing in the november update    instead of waiting trillion  months between skill patches , and maybe sin and destroyer third spec in december huh .

 

thanks for the update.

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Destrudo   

fnaly a response from the developer.. it was so hard ???

why community must force ncwest team to make an anoucment every tme?

so that bns compete "update" not come on west for what reason?

that "update" not apply on live server?(never?)

is populaton problem?

who we must blame for that low populaton in west, the player base?

i dont thing so ... when a ncwest make a simply socal stream to have fun wth the payers and kick players from the partys not looks so good or frendly or "social"

u know what else not look so good?? when the comunity mngr say to ppl if u dont like the game as it  is right now and u are tired from all that false updates just take a break or better quit the game hahahaHAAAAAAAAAA.

 

Edited by Destrudo

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vor 10 Stunden schrieb Senjinmaru:

Hello everyone

 

I wonder the requeriments to play the game in UE4... someone?

I guess you will need a GTX 660 atleast to play on low settings but a 970 for high settings. (Driver wise the old cards lack alot of performance in UE4.)

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Cor   
11 hours ago, healing pandor said:

Lost ark recently came out in Russia, it's on Ue3 and runs PERFECTLY WELL, it's not engine problem

90% don't complain about fps issues, 90% complain about how ncsoft manages this game

Lost ark is a different kind of game it's isometric view so it will obviously have better performance than a game like bns. There are other issues which also cause fps problems but ue3 is certainly part of it it's just not a good engine to use for a game like bns.

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On 11/1/2019 at 9:56 PM, Grimoir said:

Arent 90% of the issues ppl have now due to visuals killing fps and the UE3 engine just being too poor to run properly? xD so in essence UE4 even visual upgrades will help a lot.

Well 90% of the technical issues are from the engine being a completel single thread potato. Then there are another 90% of issues that are generated from epic levels of poor management and lack of communicaion. Take this thread for example. "We expect it in 2020". That's so helpful. Somewhere in 2020! How about a month in which we are to get it? How about pointing out what performance problems it WILL fix? Where is that info? When it comes to trove stuff, they do 2 hour streams to explain to us how to give them our cash, but about something which actually interests us, they either pretend not to exist, or answer in a way that doesn't give us anything. I can tell you that there is 100% chance that everybody on this planet, will trip over something. When? That, my friend, is information hidden in the quantum realm.

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On 11/2/2019 at 4:56 AM, Grimoir said:

Arent 90% of the issues ppl have now due to visuals killing fps and the UE3 engine just being too poor to run properly? xD so in essence UE4 even visual upgrades will help a lot.

Ya, um no. The majority of the issues are related to poor net code, which UE4 won't fix, and horrendous management practices by NCsoft and NCWest. So, yes UE4 will make the game look pretty, however it won't fix the management issues. The game has been on a rocket sled ride downhill for at least 6 months (see Storm of Arrows update) and this letter is more evidence they have no intention of changing that.

Edited by KlausFlouride

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PetPuggi   

Basically no credible information as usual. They went to Korea to have some BBQ, that's about it. It's pathetic that RU servers have more info regarding NA/EU servers, than NCW's own staff.

 

  1. Zero info about UE4 (wtf does "2020" mean, Dec 2020? After NA/EU already shut down?)
  2. Zero info about what's gonna happen to current servers
  3. Zero info about any upcoming classes or new specs
  4. Zero info about any major balance changes or cost "increases" (cause I refuse to use "cost reductions" in this game's context ever again)
  5. Zero info about any upcoming "content" - or right but NCW considers more RNG scamboxes "new content", that's why he put "excited to see this in Dec"
  6. Zero info about any other thing players actually give a ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ about

 

@All the whales still putting money in this dying game, there's your money put to use, some plane tickets, hotel charges and some local BBQ.

 

I've got an idea. Why don't you introduce a "BNS 1st subscription" on top of the premium? For only another $100 a year you get the actual privilege of playing in UE4 once it releases.

Edited by PetPuggi

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Grimoir   
13 minutes ago, PetPuggi said:

Zero info about UE4 (wtf does "2020" mean, Dec 2020? After NA/EU already shut down?)

Well you can be sure it will be short after korea. Since once they get the engine update, any other future patches will be for that engine so even if they wanted to they cannot delay it else it would be a huge cost increase for them.

 

14 minutes ago, PetPuggi said:

Zero info about what's gonna happen to current servers

Nothing lol, everything will be as it is, just with a new engine.

14 minutes ago, PetPuggi said:
  • Zero info about any upcoming classes or new specs
  • Zero info about any major balance changes or cost "increases" (cause I refuse to use "cost reductions" in this game's context ever again)
  • Zero info about any upcoming "content" - or right but NCW considers more RNG scamboxes "new content", that's why he put "excited to see this in Dec"
  • Zero info about any other thing players actually give a ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ about

Well...i would like more info aswel, but its always been the way that these things get announced as bigger patches hit. So i am not really suprised there isnt more info shared right now.

T%he last producer letter actually said we would get another 2 specs by end of this year so i would assume that is still on track. Unless something happened and KR delays them.

Next balance tweaks we should get is december anyway (or eralier if they get a patch bundle sooner)

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Grimoir   
5 hours ago, MassiveEgo said:

Well 90% of the technical issues are from the engine being a completel single thread potato. Then there are another 90% of issues that are generated from epic levels of poor management and lack of communicaion. Take this thread for example. "We expect it in 2020". That's so helpful. Somewhere in 2020! How about a month in which we are to get it? How about pointing out what performance problems it WILL fix? Where is that info? When it comes to trove stuff, they do 2 hour streams to explain to us how to give them our cash, but about something which actually interests us, they either pretend not to exist, or answer in a way that doesn't give us anything. I can tell you that there is 100% chance that everybody on this planet, will trip over something. When? That, my friend, is information hidden in the quantum realm.

you cannot mix game management with the UE4 upgrade as one does not relate to eachother in terms of game performance. I am talking specifically about the games performance on PC's. And while yes they did not give an exact date, but that can mean a few reasons:

 

1. they expect issues and they are waiting to see how KR upgrade goes and depending what problems / issues arise and fix time then have a better idea

2. they already have a soft date planned which may be delayed due to how KR goes

 

Overall, i am 100% sure that once the upgrade hits korea devs will not even bother making any content for the old engine as that would simply be a waste coding for 2 engines. so we should get the upgrade shortly after KR.

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Belido   
vor einer Stunde schrieb PetPuggi:

 

  1. Zero info about UE4 (wtf does "2020" mean, Dec 2020? After NA/EU already shut down?)

It means 2021 or later, well unless server been shut down before

 

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Belido   
vor 42 Minuten schrieb Grimoir:

Overall, i am 100% sure that once the upgrade hits korea devs will not even bother making any content for the old engine as that would simply be a waste coding for 2 engines. so we should get the upgrade shortly after KR.

well if their content management would be really that bad and depending on graphics engine they should just go and purge their dev ranks

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Same happened in my clan. We always had like 15-20 persons online every day just some months ago, and now you are lucky if you find someone else playing when you login. We went from doing 2 VT raids, 4 BT raids, 1TT and prepare 1 ET every week, to now not even having enough people to raid. I don't even have any wish to keep playing the game as is, and even if I think UE4 will be great for the game, I don't think it will solve anything if the developer keeps doing changes on their own without listening to the community of players. You can't keep milking the players to the limit, reducing the rewards and increasing the costs of basic things like the weapons, repeating again and again and again old events, and expect players to applaud when you announce UE4 for 2020.

 

Blade and Soul is a game that doesn't have any social feature, it is based completely in character progression and combat. Combat is very fun, that's true, but last patches have completely screwed character progression, at least for those of us who had to level up our GC weapons. You can't expect to keep increasing the costs of things (like weapon upgrades), and have the playerbase happy. Also RNG is good at some degree, but you just transformed this game to Blade and RNG... Just let the players chose, add guaranteed rewards or RNG boxes, and let the players chose what they want (with chance of RNG being worse or better than the guaranteed reward), at least then we won't have the feel that we are farming for absolutely nothing.

 

And really, if we are doing an event to get tokens of that event and then get a selection of clothes or accesories, don't ask for fabrics to open the boxes of clothes, we already worked in the event to get the tokens and get those boxes, for god's sake...

 

There are so many things to be fixed right now, things that you changed to the worse slowly since Jonathan Lien left the team months ago... I really hope that the big patch in december will be good for the players, because sadly, lately every single patch has changed the game to worse for us.

Edited by Toshiwoshi

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Derekito   

Guys dont waste your time anymore. Your wasting your energy and healthess. Are u new in this game? Its rip since more than 1.5 years ago. Go have fun with other games or activity.

They wont never change anything or listen you. And if u said something bad about them. Rip x2

Game was best of all times. At the start. When u had to farm silverfrost and Yetti. After that. Game went to the ....

Edited by Derekito

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Since we were told we would be getting the graphics update 2019, and now it is pushed back to 2020, I would normally be a bit mad about that, but frankly I don't care. I'd rather have it done well than done fast, and I am not 100% sure why we even need this graphics update to begin with. Blade and Soul is already gorgeous. I suppose MORE gorgeous is always nice, but do we really need that, also, can we really even support it?

 

What I mean by that is the game is already so pretty most people even with VERY powerful computers can't run it at high FPS, especially at 4k resolution. If we make it even more pretty won't that just make the FPS problem worse?

 

Or is the FPS problem due to the current engine the game is built on being too old to work well with current graphics cards? If that is the case is it possible for the game to get prettier, AND for us to get better FPS? If that is the case, that would be super! Usually win-win isn't how this stuff works though. Prettier usually costs more system resources.

 

 

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Crimhare   

I doubt visuals have anything to do with lags at all. Because that doesn't explain why same raid boss with solo player has 2 times more fps than with full raid and switched off characters (Ctrl-F) (MSP). I checked UE3 games list: all of those I played either perfectly worked on maximum settings or required some slight adjustments (I commonly switch off motion blur, v-sync and tune AA). Not like BnS where I turn down almost everything to make 15 fps in raid.

Well BM 3rd spec has 15 fps on Koldrak with switched off effects when fire KFM has 30 fps with effects on (and any other class I have). I doubt visual upgrade will help much.

 

PS: I suspect that before UE4 they will make another 'reductions (tm)' to gearing or to dailies so I will leave before that.

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I think the low FPS in B&S is at least partially a processing issue. You can have the mightiest video card there is, but still have horrible FPS. Getting a better processor helps though. Of course that also then might require you to upgrade your motherboard to have the improved slot to accept the new processor... which might also force you to upgrade to DDR4 ram if you are still on DDR3... in other words, pretty much buy a large portion of a new computer. NOTE: even with a very powerful processor, and superior video card you are still likely to get sub 60 FPS.

 

The reason I say it is probably partially a processor issue is because for one thing, NCsoft makes processor heavy dependent games. Aion for example, which I have also played. Furthermore, when I am standing at a highly populated area like the banker outside Temple of Eluvium / Zulia's dungeon by Dasari Palace near the Ebondrake Lair entrance... if I face all the people with characters turned on, the FPS is 20-28, but if I continue standing exactly where I am, and just turn around so that no characters are on my screen, the FPS jumps back up to 60 without changing any settings, which is max for me since I have a 4k monitor that can only go 60 hz, and I have vertical sync on to prevent screen tearing (because otherwise the screen tearing gets bad). The vertical sync (on) is going to limit my FPS to the max refresh rate of the monitor, which is going to be 60FPS.

 

So therefore, what really drains the FPS? A bunch of characters on screen all at once, and it gets even worse if I am in a dungeon (MSP) where 12 people are also doing a bunch of stuff. I notice that it does get notably better if I turn character display off though by pressing CTRL + F.

 

Furthermore, it seems like if you go to a lightly populated area, the FPS will still drop with other characters on screen, but not as much as when there are a LOT of characters on screen in a very highly populated area. It seems like our characters and the effects they generate are so detailed that having to display a lot of them really chews up system resources, which forces the FPS to drop. Whether that is a video card issue, engine UE3 software issue, or processor issue, something else, or some combination ... as well as what combination of remedies would be best to improve the situation... I don't know. I can't tell. That is above my paygrade.

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Crimhare   

It is combination probably. I read somewhere that translation wrapper also plays big role in lags. That would explain why BM 3rd spec is so laggy - it's talking head doesn't shut up. It is uneducated wild guess though.

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It's unfortunate the current state of MMOs. I am a long time veteran of BDO, and having recently quit that game after 3 years to come back to BnS is bittersweet. The combat is how I remembered it from beta and fresh NA release times, and the lack of UI issues (huge deal if any of you know whats been going on in BDO), it all felt so fresh coming back to the game about a month ago. And the lack of gear degradation upon failed enhancement attempt was amazing. But now as I become more involved, despite having my hopes raised with news of UE4 coming, I can see that a long term reinvestment into this game isn't conducive for me either. I am now currently playing five different MMOs just trying to find a new home. *sigh The formula for the perfect MMO is literally right there, any half decent dev should be able to see it clear as day, but here we are in 2019 still grasping at straws and compromising just to end up being milked for our money for no returns.

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Smo   

@Nico there's two parts to the performance issues currently and I'm worried that one might be getting completely overlooked.

 

So for NA/EU as well as other regions, a big part of why the games performance feels so bad a lot of the time isn't only the FPS performance. It's the lag due to how the netcode for combat functions. Sure, if UE4 solves the FPS issues as well as making the game look better, it will be great, but if the netcode for how combat functions isn't changed then the game will still *feel* like crap even if it looks amazing and runs smooth.

 

Unlike pretty much every other game that exists, BNS requires two-way processing between the game client and the server for every input to actually go through. This results in our ping for our inputs in combat being more than doubled from what our ping to the server is, due to how many routers handle two-way traffic differently than one-way traffic. Someone with 60 ping to the server could be having close to that ping on inputs if the netcode was just designed differently (like literally EVERY other game lol). But instead, someone with 60 ping to the server, will end up having an average of 150+ ms on their inputs instead just due to the poor coding design for the combat.

 

Essentially more than doubling the ping on all inputs may not cause much issue in korea, where the country is so small and has a much better internet infrastructure than NA/EU, but it is a HUGE problem for NA/EU. Especially for NA due to the large geographic distances and generally inferior internet infrastructure here.

 

All of the classes in the game are balanced around the low ping that korea has, and for faster attacking classes/specs they get affected very hard by the higher average ping that other regions have compared to korea. This makes a lot of those classes/specs hardly an option for many players here, and those who still choose to play them experience a handicapped version of what the class/spec is meant to be like.

NCsoft is upgrading to UE4 to fix the FPS and general performance issues, but the other side of the coin for performance issues is the lag/delay.
And for many of the players in NA/EU, the combat delay is a much bigger problem for them than the FPS.

And honestly it's a much simpler issue to fix than the FPS issues.

 

@Nico can you please let us know if something is being done with the upgrade to UE4 about how the combat is coded, to make it require just one-way processing like basically every other game? Because if nothing is being changed with it, I hate to say it man but no matter how good UE4 makes the game looks, it will still feel like crap if the combat netcode isn't changed.

Edited by Smo

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Immunity   
vor 6 Stunden schrieb Smo:

BNS requires two-way processing between the game client and the server for every input to actually go through.

lets hope it stays this way and i dont think other games do it differently.

it sounds like you want to calculate damage on client side which could easily result in speedhacking etc.

you should never trust user input!

 

that doesnt mean that the combat system or basically the whole client-server communication cant be optimised.

 

edit: after reading again i think you mean using udp instead of tcp, which really can improve network performance.

Edited by Immunity

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Smo   
3 hours ago, Immunity said:

lets hope it stays this way and i dont think other games do it differently.

it sounds like you want to calculate damage on client side which could easily result in speedhacking etc.

you should never trust user input!

 

that doesnt mean that the combat system or basically the whole client-server communication cant be optimised.

 

edit: after reading again i think you mean using udp instead of tcp, which really can improve network performance.

no. you misunderstood what I was saying. I never said anything in my post about damage calculation.

 

the way the game client works right now, basically every input you do sends the data of that input to the server, which processes it and does a check to make sure conditions allow it, then it sends that data giving the go-ahead back to your game client, which your game client processes and does its own check to make sure conditions still allow it, and then the input actually happens. It was originally setup this way to make the combat as reactive as possible for low-ping competitive PVP in korea. The server can easily be where the final processing happens before the input goes off, rather than our game client. The way it is right now results in double or even triple the delay for NA players from what their ping is to the server.

On every other multiplayer game, when you have 60 ping to the server for example, you get around the same ping on your inputs being processed. That is not the case for BnS.

 

Edited by Smo

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Immunity   

 

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Smo:

basically every input you do sends the data of that input to the server, which processes it and does a check to make sure conditions allow it, then it sends that data giving the go-ahead back to your game client, which your game client processes and does its own check to make sure conditions still allow it, and then the input actually happens.

it means validating the input and calculating damage on server side, which is exacly what i was saying. or what is processing and checking then?

 

the client is only for taking input and showing the results of it.

the processing must be on the server (for security reasons and for every client showing the same thing).

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