Losing interest. Considerations about it

[NorbertTheOpinionated]

So I don't like it, but I am slowly losing interest in B&S, and I want to say why just so that NCsoft has it on record... and probably promptly do nothing about it, but... for the record I am going to talk about it anyway. By the way, I know there are a lot of people who have the opinion: "Good! We don't want you! Get out then! QUIT! How dare you like the game, but not like every single thing about it, and point out problems hoping for correction!?" Except no. That is actually really ignorant because B&S used to have over a million players with lots of servers. Now we are down to 1 server, and depending on what time of day you queue up, it can be pretty hard to find a queue for a dungeon ok? So no, "Quit!" is not an intelligent response to tell people when their fervor for the game wavers since it hurts you too long term if everyone does it... which they are more and more. I don't want to quit, but the game... it has problems. More problems than I am listing here by the way! Why though? I mean honestly, the game has been out for years! Why is the game not EXACTLY what NCsoft wants it to be by now? What is the excuse?

 

1)

 

The game just isn't enough fun, and it is way too grindy and complex. It isn't even clear what all you need to do to gain power, and frankly, I just don't even care anymore. It seems like NCsoft thinks, I am just screaming, "I NEED TO BE MORE OPTIONS TO GAIN POWER!" What I want is a fun game that has a lot of replay-ability. Also, while the exp / gear treadmill concept is ok, it has just become outright ridiculous at this point. They just keep introducing more and more and more stuff. At this point a new player wouldn't even know what to do. Heck, I am not a new player, and even I don't know all the options to gain power in this game because it isn't intuitive, and that is a problem. I don't want to go research it either. It's a game! It should just be fun. It shouldn't require an intelligence check just to know what to do correctly!

 

Let's introduce a badge, and then lets introduce another badge, and then lets introduce hearts, and then talismans, and then... and then... that's not enough, so... so lets enchant the badges! Oh! And lets start putting gems in our pet auras, and and and... more gems for the weapons, and psyches, and stages of the gear, and new gear, and cruxes, and stat boosts for having lots of costumes, and hongmoon levels so you can have more levels than there are levels, and then Hongmoon mastery scrolls so you can have more hongmoon levels than those levels! We need to have these soul shields so that we can sacrifice more soul shield to those soul shields to upgrade your soul shields in an RNG fest to get the perfect stat arrangements because you can't pick because we don't want you to be able to, because we heard that you like RNG, so we put RNG in your RNG so that you can RNG while you RNG! Once you get the perfect stats, you have to max them out, and then you can sacrifice primers to your soul shield pieces to upgrade them even more, and THEN you can use soul warden crafting to use engravings to enchant them even further! Don't forget about achievement based stat bonuses either! Temporary bonuses too: Food. Then there are the stages for every piece of gear, and there aren't enough badges yet, so we need to be able to combine badges into new more powerful badges! Don't forget the talent build choices either. Oh, and then your class has multiple specializations. One of which is still coming because we are introducing so many different ways to upgrade your character we can't even keep up with it! Then there is the unity system. Ascension stones! Radiance Stones!

 

You know what? I don't think this is enough. Stones! I need more types of stones! I think that we should be able to put gems in literally every single piece of gear. Then let's put gems in our radiance stones! I want to be able to put stones in my stones! We already have a heart and a soul. Let's add a new item and call it "mind!" Then we can add another one and call it "body!" This game already has charts and tables just to help you keep track of the upgrade paths, and the charts have been wrong in the past because it IS complicated, but I need MORE charts! That's clearly the answer! Let's psyche out every piece of gear, combine gear with other gear because I should be able to duct tape 3 boots together into 1 super boot like we do for badges! Let's fold ourselves into an origami paper crane to quad our power! I think we should be able to put gems into our enchantments, and then enchant the enchantments! Enchantments should have stages!!! RARGHGHGHAGH!

 

NO! STOP IT! STOP IT! STOP IT! ENOUGH! I DON'T CARE ANYMORE! IT'S TOO MUCH! It's too complex. It is stupid!

 

Simple! Simple, straightforward and intuitive is good! I can barely be bothered to keep up with what the options are anymore (I probably missed some) let alone care enough to actually try to do any of that ridiculous nonsense, but you are at a disadvantage if you don't you know. If you just take a step back and look at all this, you can see how absurd this all is. There is such a thing as burdening a customer with so many options that they don't pick any options, and simply leave. Most of these ways to upgrade don't even offer customization options. It's just another money pit you are expected to dump resources into, or you are at a disadvantage, and you wouldn't want that now would you. The game is full of them.

 

You know what I could also do? Forget about B&S, and just go watch some TV. That is what I have been doing since... fishing came out pretty much... Fishing is also not fun by the way. The game's advancement needs to be overhauled and dramatically simplified. Instead, focus on adding replay-ability based on the game being consistently fun instead of rewarding in terms of gear.

 

2)

 

The bosses are becoming absurd. I feel like it would be better if NCsoft stopped trying to 1 up themselves in terms of the difficulty of each successive dungeon. NCsoft having a boss fight be different is good! NCsoft having a boss require better gear is fine. Having bosses that can repeatedly hit massive swaths of areas of the battlefield over and over again is NOT good. It's not fun. Remember when there were yellow attacks that you could block, and red attacks that you couldn't? Remember when there were single target attacks, and the bosses were challenging, but reasonable and fun, and didn't just have a bunch of gimmicky moves and one shots? "Do this ballroom dance exactly like THIS, or you lose." That is what the game is turning into.

 

Now we have these bosses like Amara for example that can hit everything around them multiple times every second or so. We have red attacks that are MORE than red attacks now. They are "SUPER" red attacks. You can't even I-frame them anymore. You just have to get out of the way. Forget about blocking them, even if you I-frame them, they still apply a debuff to you or just kill you or something. Think about Master Hong. The dude puts persistent auras on the ground that cover half the battle area, and he does it multiple times covering more than half the map. He does it 4 times with the 5th one at the end that hits the entire field if he gets if off. It is a damage over time effect, but it isn't even accurate to call it a DOT anymore because it doesn't even do damage. If you get hit for 1 tick, you just die. The amount of damage that it does is, "You're dead..." a DOT! It doesn't even matter what kind of gear you have or how many hongmoon levels. You might think you have a lot of health, but the bosses have these DOTs that just do a % of your health in damage every tick.

 

The bosses require a skill level that is just so high... it's not that it is too much to accomplish. Yes it CAN be done, but it's asking so much that I don't feel like it is fun anymore. The game is failing to make be "want" to do it is the problem. It's just complicated, and tedious, and grindy. It's not "fun." The game needs to be more "fun." Blade and Soul at its core is a good game, but the one-upmanship is just so absurd at this point.

[TemmieHoi]

33 minutes ago, NorbertTheOpinionated said:

let's add a new item and call it "mind!" Then we can add another one and call it "body!" This game already has charts and tables just to help you keep track of the upgrade paths, and the charts have been wrong in the past because it IS complicated, but I need MORE charts! That's clearly the answer! Let's psyche out every piece of gear, combine gear with other gear because I should be able to duct tape 3 boots together into 1 super boot like we do for badges! Let's fold ourselves into an origami paper crane to quad our power! I think we should be able to put gems into our enchantments, and then enchant the enchantments! Enchantments should have stages!!! RARGHGHGHAGH!

Mind, Body, and Boots equipment FUTURE CONFIRMED for Blade and Soul!

I cant wait for Duct Tape 3 boots stage 10 to come out. 

I also can't wait for Socks, Underwear, Bra, and Nose Piercings as well. HAHAHAHAHA XD

 

Edited October 17, 2019 by TemmieHoi

[MissHaiko]

I and many people played with me in the past felt the same way and almost all of them had stopped playing. Everything you wrote has been felt by anyone who play this game for a period of time. Some of them tried to ignore them but eventually it will wear them out.

 

NC is killing itself with the direction they are heading.

[Xzard]

There are many types of players and what you are describing are problems for some, others enjoy having a lot of thing to upgrade, I don't even see a problem with that.
And complaining about the difficulty of Hong, really? The point is fun is subjective, many people see ET too easy, I've seen ppl quit because this game is not challenging enough.
Cant satisfy everyone.

 

[NorbertTheOpinionated]

3 hours ago, TemmieHoi said:

I also can't wait for Socks, Underwear, Bra, and Nose Piercings as well. HAHAHAHAHA XD

 

You realize all the guy characters would be shamelessly wearing the bra's too right? I NEED THE +1% CHANCE TO CRIT!    Have to min-max! Trade the ability to blink for +1% attack power!

 

Edited October 17, 2019 by NorbertTheOpinionated

[Grimoir]

5 hours ago, NorbertTheOpinionated said:

Heck, I am not a new player, and even I don't know all the options to gain power in this game because it isn't intuitive, and that is a problem. I don't want to go research it either. It's a game! It should just be fun. It shouldn't require an intelligence check just to know what to do correctly!

It doesnt require intelligence, just common sense. Its similar in all games where you have stats on gear and you need to know / figure out which ones benefit you more, thats a big part of the entire fun of playing a game. There is nothing more boring then getting everything served on a plate and just taking it.

Given i agree with you in the point that BnS doesnt have variety in terms of gameplay and its mostly the same thing over again. But you also have to keep in mind that a game is only as fun as you make it to be for yourself.

 

5 hours ago, NorbertTheOpinionated said:

The bosses are becoming absurd. I feel like it would be better if NCsoft stopped trying to 1 up themselves in terms of the difficulty of each successive dungeon. NCsoft having a boss fight be different is good! NCsoft having a boss require better gear is fine. Having bosses that can repeatedly hit massive swaths of areas of the battlefield over and over again is NOT good. It's not fun. Remember when there were yellow attacks that you could block, and red attacks that you couldn't? Remember when there were single target attacks, and the bosses were challenging, but reasonable and fun, and didn't just have a bunch of gimmicky moves and one shots? "Do this ballroom dance exactly like THIS, or you lose." That is what the game is turning into.

 

Now we have these bosses like Amara for example that can hit everything around them multiple times every second or so. We have red attacks that are MORE than red attacks now. They are "SUPER" red attacks. You can't even I-frame them anymore. You just have to get out of the way. Forget about blocking them, even if you I-frame them, they still apply a debuff to you or just kill you or something. Think about Master Hong. The dude puts persistent auras on the ground that cover half the battle area, and he does it multiple times covering more than half the map. He does it 4 times with the 5th one at the end that hits the entire field if he gets if off. It is a damage over time effect, but it isn't even accurate to call it a DOT anymore because it doesn't even do damage. If you get hit for 1 tick, you just die. The amount of damage that it does is, "You're dead..." a DOT! It doesn't even matter what kind of gear you have or how many hongmoon levels. You might think you have a lot of health, but the bosses have these DOTs that just do a % of your health in damage every tick.

 

The bosses require a skill level that is just so high... it's not that it is too much to accomplish. Yes it CAN be done, but it's asking so much that I don't feel like it is fun anymore. The game is failing to make be "want" to do it is the problem. It's just complicated, and tedious, and grindy. It's not "fun." The game needs to be more "fun." Blade and Soul at its core is a good game, but the one-upmanship is just so absurd at this point.

In all fairness asside raids and maybe hard modes, literally no boss fight requires any skill level to clear. Everything is so icredibly dumbed down, even a monkey could clear it.....its just players themselves. To give you an example, did throne of oblivion, 6 people say in alliance chant "dont be more than 3 people per circle"....what happens? You have 5 people in a circle......or you say "stop attacking" in chat, what happens? Its a wipe because people lack common sense and understanding. And this is what is basically ruining the game, adapting to a player base that cant even jump or move right despite 20 people telling them the same thing.

[ARC-1276]

3 hours ago, Xzard said:

There are many types of players and what you are describing are problems for some, others enjoy having a lot of thing to upgrade, I don't even see a problem with that.
And complaining about the difficulty of Hong, really? The point is fun is subjective, many people see ET too easy, I've seen ppl quit because this game is not challenging enough.
Cant satisfy everyone.

 

Fun might be a subjective trait, but what happens when most people's subjective view of something points to the negative? That subjectivity becomes what we call statistical data, and statistical data is objective.

 

If most players think the game isn't fun anymore, and to the point where they'd quit (and that is exactly what happened here), then we can say that objectively, there must be something wrong with the game design that is leaving players unsatisfied.

 

Some players don't mind spending boat loads on the game, but most players (past and present) do. Some players were professional PVP players, and now the arena is more empty than it's ever been, with people unable to get past the 1800 mark because of the lack of people queuing. My clan's had to cancel raids because so many people have quit the game.

[ombremq]

This is a perfect feedback you got there, nothing much to add, i have been aswell amazed about all those nonsense unblockable attack added on everything, back then when game was good it was focused on what they called "martial art", a boss attack = you react to it/ you block it like a fighting game, now we basically have to read book for everyboss "attack pattern" and script our gameplay, if devs decided to implent thousand of unblockable red attack you have to avoid as melee every 2sec making the fight completly boring then we have to.

[Miggy Miggs]

14 hours ago, NorbertTheOpinionated said:

 

Let's introduce a badge, and then lets introduce another badge, and then lets introduce hearts, and then talismans, and then... and then... that's not enough, so... so lets enchant the badges! Oh! And lets start putting gems in our pet auras, and and and... more gems for the weapons, and psyches, and stages of the gear, and new gear, and cruxes, and stat boosts for having lots of costumes, and hongmoon levels so you can have more levels than there are levels, and then Hongmoon mastery scrolls so you can have more hongmoon levels than those levels! We need to have these soul shields so that we can sacrifice more soul shield to those soul shields to upgrade your soul shields in an RNG fest to get the perfect stat arrangements because you can't pick because we don't want you to be able to, because we heard that you like RNG, so we put RNG in your RNG so that you can RNG while you RNG! Once you get the perfect stats, you have to max them out, and then you can sacrifice primers to your soul shield pieces to upgrade them even more, and THEN you can use soul warden crafting to use engravings to enchant them even further! Don't forget about achievement based stat bonuses either! Temporary bonuses too: Food. Then there are the stages for every piece of gear, and there aren't enough badges yet, so we need to be able to combine badges into new more powerful badges! Don't forget the talent build choices either. Oh, and then your class has multiple specializations. One of which is still coming because we are introducing so many different ways to upgrade your character we can't even keep up with it! Then there is the unity system. Ascension stones! Radiance Stones!

 

You know what? I don't think this is enough. Stones! I need more types of stones! I think that we should be able to put gems in literally every single piece of gear. Then let's put gems in our radiance stones! I want to be able to put stones in my stones! We already have a heart and a soul. Let's add a new item and call it "mind!" Then we can add another one and call it "body!" This game already has charts and tables just to help you keep track of the upgrade paths, and the charts have been wrong in the past because it IS complicated, but I need MORE charts! That's clearly the answer! Let's psyche out every piece of gear, combine gear with other gear because I should be able to duct tape 3 boots together into 1 super boot like we do for badges! Let's fold ourselves into an origami paper crane to quad our power! I think we should be able to put gems into our enchantments, and then enchant the enchantments! Enchantments should have stages!!! RARGHGHGHAGH!

We can all agree that this part of the statement is completely true.

 

and its the same reason i stop leveling my pve gear and just go with pvp gearing and pledge full time pvp in this game aka bg .

 

heres the gunfire:

 

-Too much items to upgrade

 

-sed items requires sed upgrade  materials.

 

-5 upgrades of sed items give little to no stat gain considering the amount of materials use .... use 100 elysian and 200 sacred crystals  for 2 ap ---____---

 

-literally every item that was previously or intended to be defensive upgrades somehow finds it self in dps lane (so saying you dont need to focus on talisment as its a pvp upgrade, take at look at close to max talisment pve dps stats. same for pet.

 

6- every cost reduction nc issue out  is just a cover up, for a cost change. meaning they just made it farmeable material to hender you from upgrading another item, and confusing you even more, instead of actually reducng the quantity of items needed....meaning ...if it was 3 prem stones before -then 2 or 1 is a reduction . not replacing the whole entire thing and making it  500 ms crystal etc ....

they do this with every so call reduction... soul got it, pet got it , heart and talisment am not sure but yea

i mean not to be ungrateful but some of us do benefit from this , i my self got my soul up a good amount of stages. but at the cost of not upgrading anything else for a long time .

 

this is the reason people are so fustrated, because were blind to all of this , because at the end of the day 70 percent of people still have to buy those so call farmeable materials, because we simple dont have enough... we could farm but is it really worth a whole day of farming to do 1 upgrade worth 2 ap . NO and the fact that after that one day you can only upgrade 1 thing . but really and truly  they provide elsyains in hm store, hm coin value is nothing in this time , and prices there are almost sed price as market if you work it out only way to benefit is if u got a venture token and bought it but since new reward boxes it feels venture tokens or even lower chance than before( just saying) and also we could use nc coin and buy them, just for a lil added boost...... spend a little 5 dollar here .... but its still not enough.

 

everything was easy when everything was simplified ..... get weapon and ascending soul and u have dps along with 2 bt accs and thats u . all the dps boost u get now from items are  at the end of the never ending rainbow .

 

 

Can they fix it ? YES

 

separate certain items jewelry accs/weapom uses sacred cry/moonstones 

 

everything else like pet soul talisment heart m- elsyian and soul stones 

 

or they need to invent a new material then and add it , yes thats there problem , I FINALLY SOLVE THEIR ISSUE, i hope they see this !

 

 

YOU GUYS NEEED TO INVENT MORE MATERIALS AND ADD THEM TO MATERIAL CHEST , too much upgrades with too little materials to split them by .

 

YOUR WELCOME .

 

 

 

[lithium14]

If I may add in my $0.02, as a returning player coming from Black Desert, the gear grind in B&S seems so relaxed in comparison. Everything is laid out for you with build trees and upgrade paths and no RNG. In BDO, spending billions of silver enhancing accessories that blow up on failure for 1 AP gain is such a tilting factor that I personally know more people than I can count that quit the game because of it. While I can agree, yes, that insane amount of items to upgrade is quite the wall to climb, at least you know every bit of progress you gain is progress that can't taken from you according to the whims of some half-assed coding by a dev that doesn't give a rats ass about the game. Also, not having hidden stats on gear is nice too.

[RyVerseLy]

@NorbertTheOpinionated Even with bt gear twinks (even as a no mobility Shadow WL) you can kill Hong and survive 2-3 dot stacks and every easymode dungeon is just braindead now and you can solo most of it xD But the fun is gone, that's true.

vor 10 Stunden schrieb ombremq:

This is a perfect feedback you got there, nothing much to add, i have been aswell amazed about all those nonsense unblockable attack added on everything, back then when game was good it was focused on what they called "martial art", a boss attack = you react to it/ you block it like a fighting game, now we basically have to read book for everyboss "attack pattern" and script our gameplay, if devs decided to implent thousand of unblockable red attack you have to avoid as melee every 2sec making the fight completly boring then we have to.

As a tank I have to say old bosses like in Ebondrake Citadel or Desolated Tomb are way more annyoing than the new ones, because you had to perma block the yellow attacks otherwise you are perma cced. Nowadays you just have to iframe or dodge some of the attacks and you got more time to dps and imo this is way better :D

But overall I can say one year ago the game was super fun, I really enjoyed it and did a purpletrain every day with my clanmembers. But now with every patch I'm losing more and more interest, because of nc's decisions to make the game "better". Also many friends, clan- and raidmembers already quitted and I can completely understand them. The main reason I'm still playing this game is, because I already played it for years and it would be sad to quit.

[PetPuggi]

18 hours ago, NorbertTheOpinionated said:

You realize all the guy characters would be shamelessly wearing the bra's too right? I NEED THE +1% CHANCE TO CRIT!    Have to min-max! Trade the ability to blink for +1% attack power!

 

Pretty sure Tera already has a "lingerie" slot for all characters, female or male, so that is totally a possibility for another pay2win game that is 99% similar in operation model, aka BnS.

[NorbertTheOpinionated]

On 10/17/2019 at 7:05 AM, ombremq said:

This is a perfect feedback you got there, nothing much to add, i have been aswell amazed about all those nonsense unblockable attack added on everything, back then when game was good it was focused on what they called "martial art", a boss attack = you react to it/ you block it like a fighting game, now we basically have to read book for everyboss "attack pattern" and script our gameplay, if devs decided to implent thousand of unblockable red attack you have to avoid as melee every 2sec making the fight completly boring then we have to.

Right? You have these attacks where you I-Frame, and it damages you anyway! If I played a blade master I would be very frustrated that I have this block move... that doesn't work on a LOT of the attacks launched at me. The reaction time expected on some of this stuff is unreasonable too. Like just take F-roll for example. The time you have to press the button to F-roll out of something is like a quarter of a second to half a second?

 

On 10/17/2019 at 4:02 PM, lithium14 said:

If I may add in my $0.02, as a returning player coming from Black Desert, the gear grind in B&S seems so relaxed in comparison. Everything is laid out for you with build trees and upgrade paths and no RNG. In BDO, spending billions of silver enhancing accessories that blow up on failure for 1 AP gain is such a tilting factor that I personally know more people than I can count that quit the game because of it. While I can agree, yes, that insane amount of items to upgrade is quite the wall to climb, at least you know every bit of progress you gain is progress that can't taken from you according to the whims of some half-assed coding by a dev that doesn't give a rats ass about the game. Also, not having hidden stats on gear is nice too.

This is true. I took a look at BDO, and investigated it before trying it. BDO has more problems than B&S, and that is part of the reason why I made my post. I actually like Blade & Soul. At its core it is a very good game that is made somewhat frustrating in some aspects by the people running it. It is like a diamond with a rotting banana peel on top of it. All we need to do is take the banana peel off, and polish it up. The problem is that the rotting banana peel is how NCsoft makes their money, so we can't do that. Maybe we could make change the banana peel so that it isn't quite as offensive and smelly somehow though? I admit that the rotting banana peel isn't as bad as BDO's, but lets also not justify bad behavior by pointing to worse behavior. If something can be improved, let's improve it. Then it would be better right?

 

Yes I am a squeaky wheel, but the squeaky wheel gets the oil. That is why I put effort into making my criticism very clear. It isn't just to yell about something. It is meant as a request while I try to be as coherent as possible about what I would very much appreciate be changed for the better.

 

On 10/17/2019 at 6:20 PM, RyVerseLy said:

@NorbertTheOpinionated Even with bt gear twinks (even as a no mobility Shadow WL) you can kill Hong and survive 2-3 dot stacks and every easymode dungeon is just braindead now and you can solo most of it xD But the fun is gone, that's true.

 

 

Right. Since 2 people said something similar, perhaps I wasn't super clear on this point. To clarify, I am not pointing at Hong saying, "He's unbeatable" and that is a problem. Him being difficult or not isn't what makes him a good example for the point I was trying to make - it is the mechanics behind the attacks he uses that I don't like. IF I was just saying "this boss is too hard" then ANY boss would be a bad example eventually because every boss will eventually get power-crept into oblivion just like all the others before it. That isn't what I am saying. I understand you can outgear him, and even without outgearing him, he is beatable solo. That isn't the point I am making.

 

I use Hong as an example because I don't like the mechanics that come with his attacks: He has a red attack. You I-Frame it like any other red attack? It puts a DOT on you anyway! Then furthermore, the DOT doesn't tick for X amount of damage that you can overgear. It ticks for X% of your life no matter how powerful you are. Do you see the problem with that? The only answer to this is either have enough regeneration, or don't get hit by it that much. With his persistent death area on the ground, it just kills you. The only answer to this is, "Don't get hit by it." Oh... did you have a 5 second immunity? That's nice. Did you have a block button? Too bad. Did you I-Frame? Oh well!

 

If they are going to have these "super red attacks" where you are get punished if you are in them no matter what you do, and the only answer is "get out of the way" then they should really have a new color because that is not the same thing as a normal red attack. Purple? Blue? Green? Maybe change it to where green attacks you can block, yellow attacks you can I-frame. Red attacks, you just have to get out of the way. Maybe they should have yet another color for attacks that have instant death attached to them. For the record, I don't think ANY attack should have that attached to them.

 

They put all these abilities in the game where you are supposed to "push THIS button to respond to THAT," except then they put these attacks in the game where there is no answer to it other than "don't get hit." Dr. Grobak's instant death zones are another example. I don't feel like that is the right direction for boss battles to go for the future of Blade and Soul to be "fun," again, in my totally subjective opinion as a player, BUT... let me point out... also my opinion as a repeat paying customer for what that is worth. "Do this little dance exactly like this, or lose." I feel like these sorts of attacks are bad for the game. Raven King's "Punishment" attack where he puts the red circles on the ground is similar. The only answer is "eat the damage" or "don't get hit by it." I-framing and blocking are not options. I don't like attacks that are that heavy-handed. With Raven King it wasn't that bad though because it was only damage. Now it is getting to the point where it is just "you're dead." It's too forced. I feel like I should thank the boss for the dance after the battle.

 

 

[MeatMachine]

You do realise you can walk though the boss and avoid 99% of the attacks right?

Hong was easy on release and he's 10x easier now.

[Grimoir]

On 10/17/2019 at 1:05 PM, ombremq said:

This is a perfect feedback you got there, nothing much to add, i have been aswell amazed about all those nonsense unblockable attack added on everything, back then when game was good it was focused on what they called "martial art", a boss attack = you react to it/ you block it like a fighting game, now we basically have to read book for everyboss "attack pattern" and script our gameplay, if devs decided to implent thousand of unblockable red attack you have to avoid as melee every 2sec making the fight completly boring then we have to.

Are you talking about regular rotation attacks or the enrage attacks?

I have not yet encountered attacks that i cant block or iframe. The only attacks that still can damage or CC you are the ones during boss enrage. they removed the instant death during boss enrage, but the attacks still go through your counter / blocks. For example last boss WC, when he enrages and spins, you still get knocked back.

 

As for some other attacks, easy mode was made to match hard mode, thats why some CC you or go through block, because that is the same they do in HM, and since easy mode is supposed to prepare you for hard mode, it only makes sense they go through.

 

5 hours ago, NorbertTheOpinionated said:

I use Hong as an example because I don't like the mechanics that come with his attacks: He has a red attack. You I-Frame it like any other red attack? It puts a DOT on you anyway! Then furthermore, the DOT doesn't tick for X amount of damage that you can overgear. It ticks for X% of your life no matter how powerful you are. Do you see the problem with that? The only answer to this is either have enough regeneration, or don't get hit by it that much. With his persistent death area on the ground, it just kills you. The only answer to this is, "Don't get hit by it." Oh... did you have a 5 second immunity? That's nice. Did you have a block button? Too bad. Did you I-Frame? Oh well!

I think using Hong is a really bad example. The entire idea of the fight being challenging is that you do not get hit, thats why the DoT is there, so you cannot just blindly iframe and clear, this is where the entire point of "being rewarded for skill" comes into play.

Not to mention hong can easily be beaten by measily 80k DPS, as long as you know the mechanics and what to do. And yes you can survive by getting the DoT once / twice, but thats a punishment for not avoiding it in the first place (since avoiding the hit is the way it is supposed to be done), thats why at least when fighting Hong, having block / iframes doesnt matter as you can do the fight entirely without using a single one of them.

Those DoT's are actually a good way to learn mechanics properly since if you dont learn them you get punished untill you do it better

 

On 10/18/2019 at 12:20 AM, RyVerseLy said:

But overall I can say one year ago the game was super fun, I really enjoyed it and did a purpletrain every day with my clanmembers. But now with every patch I'm losing more and more interest, because of nc's decisions to make the game "better". Also many friends, clan- and raidmembers already quitted and I can completely understand them. The main reason I'm still playing this game is, because I already played it for years and it would be sad to quit.

Agreed. Ever since all the dungeons became a brainded spam of a button there is literally no fun running them anymore. even Realmrift that was super fun, became a brainded spam since they nerfed the mechs there too.

 

 

 

 

[Galeon81]

If it weren't for the main story's still ongoing chapters I would've also stopped playing B&S. It's a pity most of the lower dungeons are no longer active, while the top ones can be too difficult for casuals and newbies.

 

I agreed with OP's comment that the some bosses' mechanics at certain level are too rigid and punishing. I don't enjoy it particularly when I'm running with random players because they will tend to rage quit or throw insults when wiped or not clearing fast enough.

 

The game needs to be more inclusive towards all players new and veterans, and more flexible in clearing daily/weekly runs (e.g. lower difficulty dungeon runs for characters at lv.30, lv.50, lv.60). Each time I start a new class I always felt pressured to quickly get to lv.60 so I can do daily/weekly/event dungeons.

There's not much fun grinding until you reached at least HM14 and completely equipped with story gears. 

[Merlin DE]

vor 45 Minuten schrieb Galeon81:

The game needs to be more inclusive towards all players new and veterans, and more flexible in clearing daily/weekly runs (e.g. lower difficulty dungeon runs for characters at lv.30, lv.50, lv.60). Each time I start a new class I always felt pressured to quickly get to lv.60 so I can do daily/weekly/event dungeons.

you are 2.5 years late mate. Thats what we had when the game was released. We had an upgradeable weapon and assessouirs from the start and had to spam every dungeon from blackram narrows at viridian cost upwards.
NC-Soft removed the upgradeable weapon and assessouirs long time ago and with the removal of those items the need for the lower dungeons was gone.

Thats sad in on case cause some dungeons where realy cool, on the other hand they had to remove it cause there are way to less players especialy in the lower ranks.

Viridian Cost, Cinderland, Moonwater, and even Silverfrost (except Zaiwei) is mostly abandoned. When there is no new class, you can walk through these areas for days, without ever meeting another player and you wont find any partyies to do the lower dungeons. 

Poeple want more farming opportunities and variety, thats why i saiy lets reuse old dungeons, maybe from Asura upwards. add the removed mech again, pimp the boss HP and make them worth to be cleared again.
Or use them as challange dungeon, like the poharan event. Add the mech again, give players fixed stats and make it more rewarding to do these challange dungeons.

Either way, those dungeons would have a use, other than just wasting diskspace, again 

[Grimoir]

2 hours ago, Galeon81 said:

The game needs to be more inclusive towards all players new and veterans, and more flexible in clearing daily/weekly runs (e.g. lower difficulty dungeon runs for characters at lv.30, lv.50, lv.60). Each time I start a new class I always felt pressured to quickly get to lv.60 so I can do daily/weekly/event dungeons.

There's not much fun grinding until you reached at least HM14 and completely equipped with story gears. 

Because thats why they streamlined everything, you are supposed to get to 60 asap as then the actual grind begins. Problem with that, you skip basically all dungeon content in the lower levels which should be teaching you slowly the mechanics, instead you are so overgeared at each level that you go in brainlessly one shot things and move on, and then it all comes to light with the current dungeons when people cant stun / iframe, counter or even jump.

[NorbertTheOpinionated]

10 hours ago, MeatMachine said:

You do realise you can walk though the boss and avoid 99% of the attacks right?

Hong was easy on release and he's 10x easier now.

Did you even read what I said in detail? Probably not. TL;DR right? The point that he is "easy" isn't the point. The problem is that NCsoft thinks its ok to have red attacks that you can't I-Frame. Do you not see how that is a slippery slope? As soon as they accept that it is fine, then they start making more and more and more attacks like that, where even if you I-Frame, they punish you anyway. I don't think that would be good for the game because it invalidates counters they already built into the game, BUT if they choose to do it anyway, I would at least request that these "SUPER red attacks" be given a different color to indicate that neither blocking nor using an I-Frame dodge will be sufficient to avoid getting punished by it.

 

7 hours ago, Merlin DE said:

you are 2.5 years late mate. Thats what we had when the game was released. We had an upgradeable weapon and assessouirs from the start and had to spam every dungeon from blackram narrows at viridian cost upwards.
NC-Soft removed the upgradeable weapon and assessouirs long time ago and with the removal of those items the need for the lower dungeons was gone.

Thats sad in on case cause some dungeons where realy cool, on the other hand they had to remove it cause there are way to less players especialy in the lower ranks.

Viridian Cost, Cinderland, Moonwater, and even Silverfrost (except Zaiwei) is mostly abandoned. When there is no new class, you can walk through these areas for days, without ever meeting another player and you wont find any partyies to do the lower dungeons. 

Poeple want more farming opportunities and variety, thats why i saiy lets reuse old dungeons, maybe from Asura upwards. add the removed mech again, pimp the boss HP and make them worth to be cleared again.
Or use them as challange dungeon, like the poharan event. Add the mech again, give players fixed stats and make it more rewarding to do these challange dungeons.

Either way, those dungeons would have a use, other than just wasting diskspace, again 

Yeah I remember that. Good times. To this day I maintain that was a better system. I LIKED having to do all the quests, and go into all those little side holes and caves in all the zones to do a little mini-dungeon that was meant to be soloed. The exploration was good! The developers made the zone. B&S is pretty! "Look at our zone!" I have no problem with that. I want to look at their zone. I like it.

 

I don't think that the fact that you wouldn't be able to get dungeons for them would be a problem because they were meant to be soloed to begin with. You COULD bring in more people with you, but you really shouldn't have to. Then you would get this item and sacrifice it to your main weapon, in order to make your main weapon stronger. Remember that? I thought that was great! Also it was manageable. It felt like you were constantly making progress, but the grind was paced with your advancement in such a way that it was fun.

 

The only thing I didn't like about it was that while it guaranteed a drop from a box every dungeon run, it was for a random class. You needed the one for YOUR class to upgrade your weapon, so if you got unlucky, you could end up doing this one mini dungeon 23 times or something. I was ok with doing each dungeon 5 times or so, but after that it did become irritating. They probably should have just had the rewards from the box automatically be for your class, and don't say they couldn't do that. That is what those brilliant hongmoon keys were for, so yeah, they had the mechanics to do that if they wanted to. They just didn't want to, because they wanted you to have to grind the dungeon over and over. Also those wheels that you spin were pretty dumb too. I don't like RNG. I'd rather just have to kill this particular boss for essences over and over, and then pay a certain amount of essences per item to a vendor than to have to spin that wheel, which is more like how it is now, so that is an improvement I think... in that particular aspect. The essence cost at the vendor should be reasonable though. Not "Oh you need divine grace stones? Well you can just run Outlaw Island 300 times." No. I said it before, and I'll say it again. I am not going to run their dungeon 300 times. I could see... 30 times per dungeon. I'll give them 30. I will NOT give them 40. 40 is a deal breaker. 30 is my personal "grinding" limit.

 

 

 

[Merlin DE]

Well i was not talking about the solo contend in the old areas, i was talking about dungeons like blackram narrows, Tomb in cinderlands, Dukomo, Blackram Supply chain in moonwater and so on.
Ill guess with the gear you get while playing through the story you cant solo these dungeons. If you would still need to do them you would have a problem at all ;)

 

Anyway its sad to see all these most times beautifull created areas and dungeons abandoned. I loved Supply chain and Asura, Nexus, shattered masts and even desolate tomb and the mechanics there.

If someone would create a "retro" server with content befor they introduced Normal/Hardmode and removed good old 4 player veteran groups i would say good bye NC-Crap i play the game at a state where it still was fun and overall woth worth playing it ;)

 

 

[NorbertTheOpinionated]

1 hour ago, Merlin DE said:

Well i was not talking about the solo contend in the old areas, i was talking about dungeons like blackram narrows, Tomb in cinderlands, Dukomo, Blackram Supply chain in moonwater and so on.
Ill guess with the gear you get while playing through the story you cant solo these dungeons. If you would still need to do them you would have a problem at all ;)

 

Anyway its sad to see all these most times beautifull created areas and dungeons abandoned. I loved Supply chain and Asura, Nexus, shattered masts and even desolate tomb and the mechanics there.

If someone would create a "retro" server with content befor they introduced Normal/Hardmode and removed good old 4 player veteran groups i would say good bye NC-Crap i play the game at a state where it still was fun and overall woth worth playing it ;)

 

 

Oh yeah. Those places. I see. Yeah those would be problematic these days if you can't solo them at the time you should be doing them, and no one will do them with you. A vanilla B&S server huh? Max level 45-50 or something? Hmm... that is an interesting idea. I probably wouldn't mind. You know the actual gameplay hasn't really changed much. I mean do you really care if you lost those hongmoon ultimate skills that require focus? I almost never use them. Do you really care about losing that talisman slot? Do you really need that temporary defense button? I don't. Do we need hongmoon levels? What is wrong with people being more equalized? It is easier to balance. The class still plays pretty much the same. I don't need the unity system. When I think about it, the game has gotten a lot more complex, but my character still plays pretty close to the same. The only result is that the numbers have gotten bigger.

 

Edited October 22, 2019 by NorbertTheOpinionated

[RNB]

My problem with this game is like "I wana spend some money, but it makes no sense" 

Short story :

Played like for 1 year (casually) most of the time solo. Got my self raven 6 (At that time it was a thing) legendary set and some nice gems. Invested totally 300 - 500 euros (Trove, bundles, prem... ) 

Game updated to that peaches update and I got exaided I even more new weapon... 

Then I moved to another country and returned to game after 6-8 month break and OMG raven 3 from main quest easy, legendary crap for free.... So many new items and stuff. 

My 1st fealings got like "why I wasted so much time and some money all for nothing" 

Point is I don't see a point in spending money on this game because end game gear is not for me I'm casual and any way it will be nerfed sooner or later why trash money? 

I wana Invest in character not pay to keep him alive. 

Doing upgrades on items is stupid. Just w8 for nerf. 

So I ended up for now playing not investing and I have all materials tons and tons got some gold and feeling comfy. 

Point is you spend you lose you upgrade you lose you stop play you lose. 

Sorry for my english

 

 

[MassiveEgo]

6 hours ago, RNB said:

My 1st fealings got like "why I wasted so much time and some money all for nothing"

It's cause of the trove. In order for trove to be profitable, they need to have desirable items in it. Since their costume designers suck, they end up relying on other stuff in trove in order to incite players to rng it. Therefore we get nerfs to out craftibles and essencial materials - TS got ninja nerfed, HM powders are nowhere to be found (NC is still "working on it" btw. I haven't forgotten). And here's the main deal - by padding the number of gear items and pushing out gear updates faster, they ensure that there is always a material deficiency, making trove the defacto only source of enough mats in reasonable amount of time in order to max MOST of your stuff out before next gear patch hits. Mind you it's MOST, not even all gears. That's how padded our current gear system is. We currently have the whooping 45 upgrade lines on our gear. 45! This isn't even insanity at this point.

[MeatMachine]

Having all blockable/iframeable attacks makes the game extremely boring imo.

Sometimes you have to physically be out of the attack to avoid it, and all those times it's easily doable.

Edited October 30, 2019 by MeatMachine

[AnnaReborn]

Yungsang was way harder than Hong. Just saying :D