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A plea for assassins


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For this article I am writing, I am going to ask that you put yourself in the shoes of an assassin. Pretend you play an assassin, and ask yourself if you want to or should keep playing it considering what I am about to say. I understand that assassin is annoying to fight, so it is hard to be fair to them because of bias, but please try to be fair and see what I am about to say from the perspective of an assassin if you played one seriously. Also, please don't assume that the Tower of Infinity assassins are how the actual assassin class functions for a player. The Tower of Infinity assassin bots do things that a real assassin could NEVER do, so they are NOT the same thing. Yes, it is easy to say, "Git gud noob" or "It's fine" if you don't PLAY an assassin, but if you put yourself in these shoes and actually consider what you have to deal with, you will see the problem.

 

I request that SOMETHING be done about assassins. Here are some ideas I had, but it doesn't necessarily need to be these. You know - whatever NCsoft thinks is best, but I do request that SOMETHING be done please. I understand these ideas have been thrown around before, but with archer, I am going to explain why "now" I think it might be time. I am not suggesting ALL of these be done. I am suggesting maybe 1 of these or something like them be done:

 

Idea 1) Make it so that stealth makes you ACTUALLY invisible rather than just blurred, or maybe you can only see the blurred version of the assassin if the assassin is within 16m. If they are outside of that, they are totally invisible.

Idea 2) Make it so that stealth doesn't break when you take damage. (Maybe just in pvp since NCsoft is altering how abilities work in pvp lately? Stealth isn't a damage ability, so clearly it would need a non-damage alteration in pvp.)

Idea 3) Make it so that Wardens' 8m AOE swing and Archer's myriad of AOE attacks require a target.

Idea 4) Make it so that assassins can dodge AOEs and actually have a reasonably high chance to do so. Maybe it is just a static percent chance (70%?) ONLY while in stealth that NCsoft sets so it can't be pumped to abusive levels? That way you can still be hit by AOEs and pulled out of stealth, but it isn't basically guaranteed. The assassin might have a couple seconds to get in there and do some damage.

Idea 5) Make it so that shadow assassins' primary damage rotation works to an equal DPS measure output even if they aren't in stealth, so it doesn't matter if you are in stealth other than losing the speed, immunity to ranged attacks, +30% dodge chance (which is a joke because everything that matters hits you anyway), and the inability to be targeted (which is also not really true in most cases that actually matter).

Idea 6) Make stealth stance a stance that you can stay in, and switch between with decoy stance at will even if you aren't under the "hard to see" effect of stealth so that you can still do the stealth rotation even if you are hit and knocked out of stealth.

Idea 7) If you aren't in stealth when Heart Stab hits while in decoy stance as a Shadow Assassin, it puts you back in stealth with no limits to how many times you can do that as long as you have the focus to execute the Heart Stab of course.

Idea 8) In pve, enemies that can see through stealth can only see and target the assassin if the assassin is within 16m. It seems ridiculous to be 20m away in stealth, and some enemy that has you on their aggro table walks straight over to you, and punches you in the face anyway, leaving you asking yourself, "Why do I even have this ability?"

 

Why:

 

The assassin class (specifically "stealth") has been power-crept into oblivion in this game by now. When I started playing at launch, stealth was actually good. Now it is a liability. It is supposed to be a buff. I call it a liability because a stealth based assassin (Shadow Assassin) HAS to be in stealth to have access to the class' better damage dealing abilities for that spec. Lightning rod, and Lightning Pierce both are critical parts of the Shadow assassin's core damage rotation. Without them the class doesn't function properly, and both abilities require you to be in stealth to use them. You are locked out of them if you can't stay in stealth. If you get hit for even 1 point of damage while in stealth, you get pulled out of stealth. Yes, if that happens, you can just use another ability to go right back into stealth, but there is a limit to how much you can do that. For that reason it is required that you not get hit repeatedly.

 

That last point is the problem: Again, it requires that you not get hit repeatedly. The problem is that, due to power creep, at this point, it is VERY difficult to not get hit as an assassin, which is what stealth is SUPPOSED to help prevent from happening to you.

 

What stealth used to do (I can't even confirm anymore because what stealth does as a buff by itself isn't actually listed in full in game anywhere anymore):

Movement Speed +100%

Critical Damage +30%

Opponents, excluding certain Bosses, cannot see the assassin.

Chance to dodge +30%

Chance to dodge ranged targeted attacks +100% (This doesn't count for AOEs. AOEs have a 100% chance to hit you if you are in them when they land.)

Cannot be targeted

 

The problem with this is that if you get hit by an AOE, it pulls you out of stealth. That WAS fine... except that Wardens can swing their sword and hit everything within 8m, but all the other melee classes including the assassin can only swing 3m. Also now there are archers. Archer arrows count as AOE attacks, not single target abilities. A lot of them launched are going to be instant attacks, 2m x 16m long! If that isn't bad enough some of them are 4 x 16m or even 5 x 16m! Do you understand that a meter is about 3 feet? So they are firing arrows that are 6 feet wide? Even battleship rounds aren't that wide! (Only about 16 inches in many cases actually.) It seems ok for a horizontal sword slash to be that wide, but not an arrow! If THAT isn't bad enough, they have an ability that hits literally everything within 16m every second 3 times in case that pesky assassin goes back into stealth it will KEEP pulling them out of it. All of these are AOEs, so they completely ignore the whole assassin "immunity to ranged attacks" thing. "I'll just go back into stealth you say?" No you won't because they are going to whip around and shoot you in the head repeatedly with their AOE arrows during that 3 seconds, and that is never going to stop happening because they can fire those 2 x 16 m AOE arrows off about ever 0.25 seconds. How is an arrow an AOE?! The bullet hose that gunners bring isn't!
 

Sure, other classes can do stuff like that too, but there are limits! For example, the Kung Fu Master can just punch the ground real hard, and do an AOE to pull assassin out of stealth, but that ability has a cooldown, and its not THAT wide. Sure a destroyer can spin to win, but they run out of that eventually. Sure, a blade master can swing their sword infinitely, but that is only a little 3m swath in front of them. They don't have 16m range! Sure, they can put an AOE on the ground and stand in it, but you don't have to walk into it! They can't just put it on you, and then if you move, put it on you again every third of a second like an archer can with their AOE arrow zones! Look at Summoner. Sure, summoner can fire their sunflower and pull an assassin out of stealth, but it costs focus, and when they run out with nothing left to hit, they can't refill their focus, so they can't do it anymore if they miss a couple times, so it is important that they hit. See? There is a limit! There is NOT a limit for archers, and it is rapid fire multiple times per second!
 

Don't say that they can't see you as an assassin while you're in stealth. Yes they can. As an assassin, you are just blurry. They can't use attacks that require a target, but they can use attacks that don't and if those attacks hit, they will pull the assassin out of stealth.

 

Consider the statement on the stealth buff: "Opponents, excluding certain Bosses, cannot see the assassin." That is what the stealth ability says verbatim. You can see the original intent here. At this point in the game, it is ALL recent bosses, AND even a lot of minions that can see the assassin. The only things that can't see the assassin these days are things that don't matter because they are so weak that even if they could see the assassin it wouldn't make a difference. Let me say that again. EVERYTHING that matters can see, and attack you through stealth.

 

I've heard stuff like, "Well technically 90% of the NPC mob enemies can't see through stealth." Right... ok. Let me propose a thought experiment to you: What would happen if we changed it so that everything that can see through stealth currently were changed such that it cannot see through stealth, and everything that cannot see through stealth currently were changed such that it CAN see through stealth? So now 90% of the things can see through stealth, but the 10% that could before, now cannot see through stealth. I'd take that deal in a heartbeat. Just think about that for a minute. No, we can't have that can we? Why not? Because it would clearly be overpowered - you could solo every boss without them even realizing you are there. It wouldn't even take much skill. Assassin would be the most powerful class in the game. See what I mean now? Everything that matters can see and attack through stealth, and if you get hit, you can't even do your damage rotation. Stealth is a liability. It isn't a buff. It is a requirement - something you have to maintain or your class build doesn't work.

 

People tell you, "Just play serpent build." Umm... no... why is it ok for entire class builds to not be competitive? It's not ok. We don't need a work-around. We need a fix. Stealth needs to work. I don't want to play a poison assassin. I just want stealth to work, and not be a liability.

 

Some people might say, "It is ok for archer to be a hard counter to assassin." No it isn't. This isn't a paper-rock-scissors design game. Ranked pvp is 1v1. There is no one who is going to help you balance a paper-rock-scissors formula in the arena. The game needs to be balanced for 1v1 equalized pvp, OR IT ISN'T BALANCED!

 

This isn't REALLY a complaint about Archers thread because Archer is only the most recent addition to top the problem off. This is an assassin problem. Stealth needs to be tweaked somehow to be a bit more viable. I am not saying, "WHY CAN'T I SOLO THIS BOSS WITHOUT HIM EVEN REALIZING I AM THERE?!1ONE[SHIFT]?!" No no, but just consider going into whirlwind valley or something, and there are a bunch of people having a war in the middle with a bunch of AOEs going off from random abilities in there. You'd like to go in and help, but you can't because you are a shadow assassin. Some random attack that wasn't even intended for you is going to hit you and lock you out of your damage rotation. Stealth needs to be worth more. It needs to be... better somehow. Not super better, just... some. Not in terms of damage! I am not asking for a damage buff! I am asking for the ability to maintain stealth or access to the stealth based attacks so the class works. I don't even care if people can see me. Just don't lock us out of our rotation!

 

Edited by NorbertTheOpinionated
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It´s a well written and I can see how much effort you put into it.
I also play assassin as my second main, mostly due to bg and the joy of playing objectives, while keeping 3-4 people at bay.
Same as you I also play shadow alone for the 0m restriction to enter stleath, facing the enemy´s back, so I can tell what the struggles, but also the perks are.

Starting off, you should be aware though that any kind and I mean any kind of class changes written in this forum are read, but will never be carried out.
Not simply because NCWest is not in charge of programming or doesn´t care, it´s because everything, aside from some very few occassions, have been chewed out and repeatedly requested in the Dev´s homeland, Korea. By the time we receive these patches 3-9 months pass.
Not saying that your effort is wasted, but if they went for sin, they would have to balance everything all together. From your post the majority of issues don´t even origin from sin. Warden, Archer(,FM, Destro, SM) - when you enter bg, the whole floor is lava, i mean aoe.
Melee classes since SSP patch were always at an disadvantage. While they had the highest risk, they had the least gain. Warden doesn´t count btw, with him being a mid range thingy. Still while I understand your claim, sin has many ways to bypass these restrictions, different from other melee classes.
Stealth basically disables 80% of all skills, any class has. Stealth can be basically considered immunity. All while one shotting classes that look the other way, yet still with the possibility to keep 2-4 people at bay. Choosing to play the objective.
Other classes are not that lucky. If they do not have that gear, all they´re left with is death. With the exception of BM light and spectral spec.
As sin you have to get away from the idea to kill and play for the team, delaying enemies by forcing them into combat, switching the brazzer while keeping watch, interrupting switch, providing party buff and saves, while trying to keep away from group fights, to avoid random aoe.
And still with the possibility to take people off guard with c stun, lbm (to get rid of the shield) and grenande.

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i read over some points you made, my feedback:

 

sin is super strong pvp, its a hard class to deal with no matter what utility your class as.

 

assassin are very swift and can maintain stealth easily in pvp even if your not hit .... having 2 back step is really sweet but overall you can just... hit q , hit q 1, use counter f 1, go stealth, poison stack and kick into stealth the possibilities are endless.

 

i have a sin and tbh at first i was sooo noob i couldnt even do a combo .... or chain ccs that was like couple months ago... 

 

but i observe others and spectate and saw what i was doing wrong.

 

assassin is op if you get the hang of it ..you can poison breath blue buff poison breath bomb that like 75 percent hp there..that cheese is used even in gold match up ..if the sin confident enough in its dodge game .sin wins by damage like 990 percent of time 

i heard of this in bns tournaments and when i got good on sin i proved this..the overtime damage of sin is really good alon with poison stack.

i can even bg on my sin and stall a whole team with trash gear.... its all about using your tools to outshine the opponent . if i see alot of fms i can secure a counter ,summoners i can secure a stealth with q easy these are the things you put on table.

 

 

sin pve , in my opinion is the worst pveing class i mean back in the days dungeon its ok but now you can't maintain stealth easy  ...any fixes to that will reflect in pvp so yea. leave it there. 

 

also all class in some way has skills to deal with sins ..atm not seeing a class that can counter sin 100 percent ..... use to be summs but idk  since awaken i think that went out window. so sins are still good pvp. tbh its about time sin got a counter class and if the archer even makes a mistake she/he can be dead in 1 combo ..or blue buff cheese.

 

 

Edited by Miggy Miggs
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I doubt any of this will even be taken into consideration, looking at the fact that the 3rd spec will come out. Maybe afterwards.

But i would not agree to make the assasin fully invisible. If you would to that you should do the exact same to summoners stealth, and make them and all party members where it triggers fully invisible.

 

You are just looking purely at assasin, you are not looking at it from a "all other classes point of view", at least thats what it looks like to me when i read it o.o

And since archer is new you have to remember the standard formula: New class = OP(in one way or another) until the set of nerfs and changes come, which KR already got.

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13 hours ago, Miggy Miggs said:

sin pve , in my opinion is the worst pveing class i mean back in the days dungeon its ok but now you can't maintain stealth easy  ...any fixes to that will reflect in pvp so yea. leave it there. 

.

It's easier than ever to maintain stealth and it's not a bad class for pve at all. Shadow assa is the hardest melee class to play effectively though so it's a matter of skill whether you are good or bad with it. The only really bad thing about it in pve is that nc seems to hate it and puts things in dungeons that kick you out of stealth for no reason and that marks on your character get stealthed too. That they haven't fixed that after so many years is beyond me.

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Sorry but Assassin has the upper hand, those people who know what they're doing just learned a loop hole in your strategy.

Assassins can vanish, they have so much CC, they do strong damage, their kit is super great in many ways and situations.

 

You want them to make it even more harder for others to pvp you for easier win?

That's just going to make it to were no one wants to pvp anymore.

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Am 22.9.2019 um 23:27 schrieb NorbertTheOpinionated:

Idea 1) Make it so that stealth makes you ACTUALLY invisible rather than just blurred, or maybe you can only see the blurred version of the assassin if the assassin is within 16m. If they are outside of that, they are totally invisible.

Idea 2) Make it so that stealth doesn't break when you take damage. (Maybe just in pvp since NCsoft is altering how abilities work in pvp lately? Stealth isn't a damage ability, so clearly it would need a non-damage alteration in pvp.)

Idea 3) Make it so that Wardens' 8m AOE swing and Archer's myriad of AOE attacks require a target.

Idea 4) Make it so that assassins can dodge AOEs and actually have a reasonably high chance to do so. Maybe it is just a static percent chance (70%?) ONLY while in stealth that NCsoft sets so it can't be pumped to abusive levels? That way you can still be hit by AOEs and pulled out of stealth, but it isn't basically guaranteed. The assassin might have a couple seconds to get in there and do some damage.

Idea 5) Make it so that shadow assassins' primary damage rotation works to an equal DPS measure output even if they aren't in stealth, so it doesn't matter if you are in stealth other than losing the speed, immunity to ranged attacks, +30% dodge chance (which is a joke because everything that matters hits you anyway), and the inability to be targeted (which is also not really true in most cases that actually matter).

Idea 6) Make stealth stance a stance that you can stay in, and switch between with decoy stance at will even if you aren't under the "hard to see" effect of stealth so that you can still do the stealth rotation even if you are hit and knocked out of stealth.

Idea 7) If you aren't in stealth when Heart Stab hits while in decoy stance as a Shadow Assassin, it puts you back in stealth with no limits to how many times you can do that as long as you have the focus to execute the Heart Stab of course.

Idea 8) In pve, enemies that can see through stealth can only see and target the assassin if the assassin is within 16m. It seems ridiculous to be 20m away in stealth, and some enemy that has you on their aggro table walks straight over to you, and punches you in the face anyway, leaving you asking yourself, "Why do I even have this ability?"

Havent read all of your text cause it is way to big thou.

 

1. Would be way to op since even now you have to assume when Assasine will attack you this will get imposible if you cant even see where he is. Means there would be no defence possible.

2. I dont see them doing this but PVE wise i dont care Assasin can have it but you have to have a way to get him visible in PVP so it needs to stay atleast there.

3. If you are in stealth people cannot target you ok but have in mind its the only way to protect youselfe against Assasins. So again would be way to op.

4. Assasins can have up to 98% evade even in 1v1 so again there is no need to increase anything defence wise on assasin. if you ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ up in PVE sorry but assasin is not hard i have one myselfe. There are no hard classes in PVE.

5. I can request the same for Soul fighter "make the ranged stance as strong as KFM stance i may want to play on range mode. Or you could just learn how to put out the max ammount of damage your class can do or just play another class if you dont like it or cannot manage the dmg you want.

6. So you request to make sin invisible by pressing 2 not even needing to get an attack on him ? if so again would be way to broken in PVP. You need to consider counter play needs to be possible even for assasin.

8. So you want a free ticket on everything in PVE ? you want the enemy just to stay still ? Ever considered Stealth exist to 1. give you 2 stances and 2. to increase your evasion rate ? Imagine 6 assasins being in stealth or even 12 doing ET. Boss not doing a single thing cause of stealth. Thats what they want to prevent by making you visible to some bosses.

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