This patch might be the last straw

[PetPuggi]

You've got a dying game here, no one's gonna argue that. Some people say it's already dead, w/e that's up to debate.

 

How do you attempt to save it? Well this is NCW/NCS's way:

 

• Releasing more pay2win gear to squeeze more milk out of stone. Yes that is totally going to attract new players to install game or players who quit game to return, "brand new whale-level tier items that only cost $5000USD to unlock! (Fineprint) Or of course you can spend two and half years grinding for it"
• Cashgrab casino simulator which more and more people agree are complete scams due to highly questionable drop rates and reward choices
• Renaming "normal" to "easy" to give them an excuse to reduce drops even further because that'll totally get people to whip out that credit card. Please don't give me the BS this will "attract undergeared players". First of all it's not even confirmed "easy mode" is really "easy mode", for all we know the only different could be the name as a facade. Second of all it's literally impossible to wipe in any normal mode dungeon except WC/BC/DST. If you wipe in them, well maybe you shouldn't join a BC party with story gear to start with? New players will just get the same dungeon experience aka braindead simulator as before, and all older players will get pissed off with nerfed rewards. So what's the benefit for us here? NCW's wallet, that's what the benefit is. Think about it, if they really wanted to help players why would they remove normal mode? Because keeping normal mode would no longer give them an excuse to force a drop rate nerf, as no one in the right mind would join easy mode
• Increasing amount of dailies required to get basic reward from 3 to 4, and from 5 to 8. Also removing celestial basin's daily which was critical for alts. What's next, removing CS/HM too (or are they already removed, didn't check)? Yeah totally alt-friendly. Now instead of spending half an hour each alt, you spend an hour or more each. That'll encourage those players to play more!

 

If you want to release new pay2win crap and a casino simulator, at least make it so the rest of the patch is actually beneficial for players, both new and old. When you couple pay2win additions with massive nerfs in drops and increased effort required to get them, what do you think is going to happen??

 

Releasing a new "archer" class is like trying to put out a forest fire with a bucket of water. It's about run of the mill as run of the mill classes can get. How much hype will "archer", the most common class in MMO history, spark in a dying game? It's laughable to release an archer class near the end of an MMO's shelf life when literally every other game in existence has this overplayed class since launch day.

 

It's also funny on the "system changes" and archer class news page they put up, they didn't even bother polishing it with any marketing speech this time like "this is a great chance to return to the game" or "best chance for newcomers to join the game" that they usually do for these big patches, cause all that page talks about are more tiers of pay2win gears. Players are not that stupid.

 

At this point I don't see how anyone, even the white knights here, could tolerate this absolute mind-boggling decision making anymore.

Edited September 15, 2019 by PetPuggi

[Grimoir]

1 hour ago, PetPuggi said:

At this point I don't see how anyone, even the white knights here, could tolerate this absolute mind-boggling decision making anymore.

Simple, people are getting what they asked for. Easy modes are being put in because they are listening to the crybaby part of the community that doesnt learn mechanics, doesnt put in effort to learn dungeons and cries left and right that dungeons are "too hard". So they get what they wanted. Easy modes with little drops and gold.

 

2 hours ago, PetPuggi said:

Cashgrab casino simulator which more and more people agree are complete scams due to highly questionable drop rates and reward choices

Food for thought: "its stupid its a scam but i will buy 200 keys anyway".....if its a scam, don't participate.

 

2 hours ago, PetPuggi said:

easing amount of dailies required to get basic reward from 3 to 4, and from 5 to 8. Also removing celestial basin's daily which was critical for alts. What's next, removing CS/HM too (or are they already removed, didn't check)? Yeah totally alt-friendly. Now instead of spending half an hour each alt, you spend an hour or more each. That'll encourage those players to play more!

This i actually think is good. The daily from basin wasnt "critical" for alts, it was simply a free daily , thats it. With the easy mode dungeons coming up they will all be like the celestial basin daily. But again here, if you cant handle the content why are you playing?

 

2 hours ago, PetPuggi said:

Releasing a new "archer" class is like trying to put out a forest fire with a bucket of water. It's about run of the mill as run of the mill classes can get. How much hype will "archer", the most common class in MMO history, spark in a dying game? It's laughable to release an archer class near the end of an MMO's shelf life when literally every other game in existence has this overplayed class since launch day.

This is Bns, this isnt :other games". In every one of them the archer class plays differently, same will be in BnS. Thats why there is a hype, because its a new class in THIS mmo, no one gives a rats behind about how archers are in other games if they play it here.

 

2 hours ago, PetPuggi said:

Players are not that stupid.

Sure they aren't,....makes you wonder why we get an "easy mode" in the first place.

 

Bottom line, the game is going in a bad direction because they are listening to the completely wrong part of the playerbase. And in all fairness, most of whats in this patch, is what players wanted. Easy things to brainded walk through with 0 effort and archer.

[Ryunosuke Takahashi]

2 hours ago, PetPuggi said:

You've got a dying game here, no one's gonna argue that. Some people say it's already dead, w/e that's up to debate.

 

How do you attempt to save it? Well this is NCW/NCS's way:

 

• Releasing more pay2win gear to squeeze more milk out of stone. Yes that is totally going to attract new players to install game or players who quit game to return, "brand new whale-level tier items that only cost $5000USD to unlock! (Fineprint) Or of course you can spend two and half years grinding for it"
• Cashgrab casino simulator which more and more people agree are complete scams due to highly questionable drop rates and reward choices
• Renaming "normal" to "easy" to give them an excuse to reduce drops even further because that'll totally get people to whip out that credit card. Please don't give me the BS this will "attract undergeared players". First of all it's not even confirmed "easy mode" is really "easy mode", for all we know the only different could be the name as a facade. Second of all it's literally impossible to wipe in any normal mode dungeon except WC/BC/DST. If you wipe in them, well maybe you shouldn't join a BC party with story gear to start with? New players will just get the same dungeon experience aka braindead simulator as before, and all older players will get pissed off with nerfed rewards. So what's the benefit for us here? NCW's wallet, that's what the benefit is. Think about it, if they really wanted to help players why would they remove normal mode? Because keeping normal mode would no longer give them an excuse to force a drop rate nerf, as no one in the right mind would join easy mode
• Increasing amount of dailies required to get basic reward from 3 to 4, and from 5 to 8. Also removing celestial basin's daily which was critical for alts. What's next, removing CS/HM too (or are they already removed, didn't check)? Yeah totally alt-friendly. Now instead of spending half an hour each alt, you spend an hour or more each. That'll encourage those players to play more!

 

If you want to release new pay2win crap and a casino simulator, at least make it so the rest of the patch is actually beneficial for players, both new and old. When you couple pay2win additions with massive nerfs in drops and increased effort required to get them, what do you think is going to happen??

 

Releasing a new "archer" class is like trying to put out a forest fire with a bucket of water. It's about run of the mill as run of the mill classes can get. How much hype will "archer", the most common class in MMO history, spark in a dying game? It's laughable to release an archer class near the end of an MMO's shelf life when literally every other game in existence has this overplayed class since launch day.

 

It's also funny on the "system changes" and archer class news page they put up, they didn't even bother polishing it with any marketing speech this time like "this is a great chance to return to the game" or "best chance for newcomers to join the game" that they usually do for these big patches, cause all that page talks about are more tiers of pay2win gears. Players are not that stupid.

 

At this point I don't see how anyone, even the white knights here, could tolerate this absolute mind-boggling decision making anymore.

Pay to progress crap. Corrected it for you. Eventually for every base class there will be a new class that is better then 2 combined. They did the same on Lineage II so Archer won't be the last class. Archers play different in every game for the most part. It will play differently here as well.  It is always a good time to return to the game as normally if your gone long enough you log in with a quest to basically give you stage 10 accessories for doing some very minor dungeons and upgrading the 30 day items with the quest reward. I enjoy this game very much and tolerate it more then players that constantly whine. They gave us easy mode. Don't like it? Complain to the part of the community that said the stuff was too hard, so they gave us a easy mode, lowered gold and rewards and removed normal. If you don't like trove or the rng boxes, simple don't buy them, if enough people do this they might just take the hint. Older players should know mechanics so therefore they should be running hard mode? Nothing says you MUST finish all 8 dailies or even 7. You can do 3 on alts just fine in the same amount of time and 6 on your main.

[Ren36]

While it may be what the a part of the playerbase wanted, it was NCSoft´s decision to execute and promote this. On other occassions they don´t listen to us either.
Phrasing it as though the players are completely at fault completely dismisses that this update tries to mask and counter the population problem and gear gap between players and their inability to join parties.

[Necrontyr]

15 hours ago, Grimoir said:

The daily from basin wasnt "critical" for alts, it was simply a free daily , thats it. With the easy mode dungeons coming up they will all be like the celestial basin daily. But again here, if you cant handle the content why are you playing?

The 3 loading screens to enter a dungeon in f8 already takes longer than the basin quest, more if you have to wait in lobby, and even more if it is 2 am. It's not about being able to handle content, it's about the time.

[Asuramon]

What's the issue with increased number of dc quests? Finally additional incentive to play more. No one is forcing you to play a bunch of alts. I'm keeping up just fine with 1 character.

Judging from RU streams and info (and we get same stuff as RU 99.9% of the time), Easy mode is going to be basically the same as normal mode rewards-wise. You get *more* for *less* effort. And you can still get legendary drops in easy mode.

Lastly, you don't need over half the new upgrades that get released to clear anything. You won't need pet gems to clear ET or WC hm. You don't need Omega pet either. Every high tier endgame content is perfectly clearable with f2p gear. Play at your own pace, maybe?

[Merlin DE]

vor 16 Stunden schrieb Grimoir:

Simple, people are getting what they asked for. Easy modes are being put in because they are listening to the crybaby part of the community that doesnt learn mechanics, doesnt put in effort to learn dungeons and cries left and right that dungeons are "too hard". So they get what they wanted. Easy modes with little drops and gold.

Well the last time i saw people complaining about to complicated mechanics, or that a dungeon is to hard, was when Desolate Tomb was released. After that most dungeons got a nerf even befor players could just think about to complain. Naryu sacntum was nerfed about 2 month after it was released. They completly removed mech from Xanos except for the KD / Stun.

What people sometimes complain about are the solo dungeons but those didnt get any nerf, at least none i remeber about.

 

People not complaining about to complicated mechs or dungeons are to hard. People dont want everything for free, thats only what people like you are claiming. Telling people to gear up but dont give them the chance buy taking them to dungeons / raids because of your elitists requirements.
My alt have aransu 6, TT Ring on 9, tt earring, prophecy neck, skabreak glove 10 can do TT 1-4 fine but im not good enough to do freaking MSP cause im only at ~1650AP on my alt.

You want people to gear up? Then for god sake give them a damn chance to do so

 

vor 16 Stunden schrieb Grimoir:

This i actually think is good. The daily from basin wasnt "critical" for alts, it was simply a free daily , thats it. With the easy mode dungeons coming up they will all be like the celestial basin daily. But again here, if you cant handle the content why are you playing?

No thats another worse desission.

1. you need more time to do your daily while gold income was reduced again and honestly, i wouldnt wonder if material income will be reduced to

2. Dailys will contain hardmode dungeons from what i saw. So some people wont even be able fo finish dailys to get all rewards, at least when there are not enough alternatives

Worst case people will do pvp quests going AFK on battlefield and hoping for a carry.

3. And no the daily from basin was quite critical for alts depending on the daily choice cause requirements for BC / WC are quite high and no one would take an alt even with full VT gear, wich is more than enogh to do those dungeons.

 

 

vor 16 Stunden schrieb Grimoir:

Bottom line, the game is going in a bad direction because they are listening to the completely wrong part of the playerbase. And in all fairness, most of whats in this patch, is what players wanted. Easy things to brainded walk through with 0 effort and archer.

The game is going in a bad direction because of elitists who dont understand the sense of a multiplayer game. Requireing redicoulus selfish stats for dungeons i can do solo with my main.

The game is gong down cause people stop helping each other and/or explaining mechs. I can remeber times where people postet learning runs for DT, at least on my server, took the time to explain things and let new or lower geared practice.
Well ok this might by mostly NC-Softs fail cause they force us with quicker and quicker comming updates to gear up leaving those with not so much time / money behind.

And the gap between high and low geared players is growing untill some day the last low geared dont have any more motivation and will give up.

 

Oh and BTW: not only lower geared are frustrated. A friend recently told me he will quit cause hes tired of the ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ NC-Soft continue doing and not listening to the community.

Hes a veteran, i started with him 3.5 year ago and he is nearly max-gear except for ET weapon. GG NC-Soft another one bites the dust.

vor 56 Minuten schrieb Asuramon:

What's the issue with increased number of dc quests? Finally additional incentive to play more. No one is forcing you to play a bunch of alts. I'm keeping up just fine with 1 character.

Your serious? Whats the issue?

The issue is quite simple. You have to spend even more time for booring dailys while they additionally reduced the income (at least Gold income is reduced by 25-50% depending on the dungeons) and prices are still raising.

Would like to see you when your boss would tell you you have to work 10 instead of 8 hours from now on while he also reduce your sallary by 25%, but hey it not an issue...

WTF dude

 

 

 

[ombremq]

Il y a 15 heures, Grimoir a dit :

Simple, people are getting what they asked for. Easy modes are being put in because they are listening to the crybaby part of the community that doesnt learn mechanics, doesnt put in effort to learn dungeons and cries left and right that dungeons are "too hard". So they get what they wanted. Easy modes with little drops and gold...

Bottom line, the game is going in a bad direction because they are listening to the completely wrong part of the playerbase. And in all fairness, most of whats in this patch, is what players wanted. Easy things to brainded walk through with 0 effort and archer.

What are you people talking about all the time? who complaining about content being too hard we need mechanics nerf? where is that community asking for it?show me a populate thread about it or stop coming here inventing story, the proof is they added "easy mode" and almost everyone whining about it  so link us that invisible topic i am unable to see where people are doing the "fiesta", yelling "we got what we asked its a christmas miracle"... seeing the current state of pvp the constant warning from the entire community you think they ever listen to anyone? wake up lol ...community mostly whining about "game optimization" & "rewards", if they put decent reward/rng for hardmode then i'll farm it everyday, can you just imagine that years before we needed less mats but we were able to farm 100+ moonstone in about 1h doing naksun and you still think that they adding "easy mode" to please that "invisible" community asking for it?...we were fine with normal mode but like Petpuggi stated, their aim is : 

 

Il y a 18 heures, PetPuggi a dit :

Renaming "normal" to "easy" to give them an excuse to reduce drops even further because that'll totally get people to whip out that credit card...

 

[Fiana]

@ombremq @Grimoir @Merlin DE iam one of those people who want this easy mode and hard mode from long time

and i think this is actually a very good change, from now all of you so called "veteran" who often boasted high gear finally will try hard mode in f8, and then we can enjoy "the mech" of dungeon in this game in their full glory, not just some brain dead dps today dungeon are

why you guys complain anyways? scary because mech in hard mode? :3
it's gonne be fun, i wonder how many of this veteran remember mech for HH

the part i want to complain is, the reward for hard mode is a bit low.. can you increase the gold and stuff it's drop?

the hardest part for me is not running the dungeon, but finding 6 people in certain time who want to do daily hard mode is a bit difficult for ppl who live in SEA time zone

 

OR~ you guys can just delete this easy mode once and for all, and just have the hard mode like the old day :3

Edited September 16, 2019 by Fiana

[KzE]

3 hours ago, ombremq said:

who complaining about content being too hard we need mechanics nerf?

I think koreans, they got this easy mode :D

[Asuramon]

5 hours ago, Merlin DE said:

Your serious? Whats the issue?

The issue is quite simple. You have to spend even more time for booring dailys while they additionally reduced the income (at least Gold income is reduced by 25-50% depending on the dungeons) and prices are still raising.

Would like to see you when your boss would tell you you have to work 10 instead of 8 hours from now on while he also reduce your sallary by 25%, but hey it not an issue...

WTF dude

Yea, my bad. I see the issue now. The issue is you treat this as some kind of job. It's not. No one is forcing you to do anything you don't want to do. You can keep up just fine with 1 character, being f2p. I'm able to, you should as well.

[Psyrien]

Easy mode? This is already easy as it is so I’m not sure what people are going to get lol 

[Grimoir]

6 hours ago, Merlin DE said:

My alt have aransu 6, TT Ring on 9, tt earring, prophecy neck, skabreak glove 10 can do TT 1-4 fine but im not good enough to do freaking MSP cause im only at ~1650AP on my alt.

You want people to gear up? Then for god sake give them a damn chance to do so

There is a difference between whats needed and what people ask for. If i make a MSP party i accept who I want, based on requirements i give. If you cant get into a group, make your own, nothing stopping you from that. dont make your laziness be an excuse to blame others who want certain gear in their parties for efficient farming.

 

6 hours ago, Merlin DE said:

3. And no the daily from basin was quite critical for alts depending on the daily choice cause requirements for BC / WC are quite high and no one would take an alt even with full VT gear, wich is more than enogh to do those dungeons.

Like i said above, those are requirements given by players for their lobbies. you are free to make your own lobby with your own requirements. thee is nothing stopping you from that.

 

6 hours ago, Merlin DE said:

The game is going in a bad direction because of elitists who dont understand the sense of a multiplayer game. Requireing redicoulus selfish stats for dungeons i can do solo with my main.

The game is gong down cause people stop helping each other and/or explaining mechs. I can remeber times where people postet learning runs for DT, at least on my server, took the time to explain things and let new or lower geared practice.

Like in above 2 points. Make your own lobby with your own requirements. Also why should someone teach mechanics if there are XX amounts of guides on youtube, other websites, on this forum even. If someone does not bring in their own incentive to even watch a mechanics video why would i waste time to explain something i know he wont remember or care about? If people want to learn dungeons they can join a good clan and join their progression runs.

 

6 hours ago, Merlin DE said:

Your serious? Whats the issue?

The issue is quite simple. You have to spend even more time for booring dailys while they additionally reduced the income (at least Gold income is reduced by 25-50% depending on the dungeons) and prices are still raising.

Would like to see you when your boss would tell you you have to work 10 instead of 8 hours from now on while he also reduce your sallary by 25%, but hey it not an issue...

WTF dude

There is nothing to compare here with work. Prices are set by supply and demand and always been. The more people choose to buy mats instead of farming the higher the prices will rise.

This has nothing to do with nerfed gold from dungeons because that is not and never was the main gold source in the game.

 

4 hours ago, Fiana said:

@ombremq @Grimoir @Merlin DE iam one of those people who want this easy mode and hard mode from long time

and i think this is actually a very good change, from now all of you so called "veteran" who often boasted high gear finally will try hard mode in f8, and then we can enjoy "the mech" of dungeon in this game in their full glory, not just some brain dead dps today dungeon are

why you guys complain anyways? scary because mech in hard mode? :3
it's gonne be fun, i wonder how many of this veteran remember mech for HH

the part i want to complain is, the reward for hard mode is a bit low.. can you increase the gold and stuff it's drop?

the hardest part for me is not running the dungeon, but finding 6 people in certain time who want to do daily hard mode is a bit difficult for ppl who live in SEA time zone

 

OR~ you guys can just delete this easy mode once and for all, and just have the hard mode like the old day :3

I mean i understand that there are players who will like the easy modes, i am not dismissing that.  And i run hard modes just fine :) The issue is that in general the ghame is getting so dumbed down, that regardless if you run a new raid, or hard mode dungeons etc, nothing is rewarding anymore.

For example, raid gear should be rewarding you for the effort, instead its worth nothing because ppl sell raid runs and NC stuffs the raid mats everywhere they can.

 

 

[Merlin DE]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Fiana:

iam one of those people who want this easy mode and hard mode from long time

and i think this is actually a very good change, from now all of you so called "veteran" who often boasted high gear finally will try hard mode in f8, and then we can enjoy "the mech" of dungeon in this game in their full glory, not just some brain dead dps today dungeon are

why you guys complain anyways? scary because mech in hard mode? :3
it's gonne be fun, i wonder how many of this veteran remember mech for HH

Oh wow, you assume most "veterans" are lazy and braindead and only can burst? Thats quite bold.

You wonder how many of us can remeber HM mech for HH?
Well i even remember and for sure could still do HM mech in NS, or how about 4 men Hardmode in DT / EC or even in Shattered Masts, Nexus, Asura or even Awakend Necro?

Do you? 
Most of us "veterans" complained when they announced they will remove 4 men and therefore add NM and HM and made our NM 6 men party the new HM. Most of us "veterans" always told this is one of the biggest mistakes NC-Soft ever did, as we always told the other mistake was constantly nerfing mech in NM

 

So what will change for F8?

Nothing cause most of us "veterans" did Purple Train in HM anyways, but also most of us "veterans" have static groups we do it.

 

What will happens to "lower" geard players?

Well they wont have any better chances to do HM in F8 cause as i already mentioned, most "veterans" do it with static groups and not random since the danger of wiping and wasting time is way to high.
On the other side most of the "lower" geared will have even more reduced material and overall gold income, cause instead of making HM more atractive by increasing the reward NC-Soft did what they can do best, lower the rewards in Easy Mode.

Meanwhile they add more and more upgradeable Stuff which needs more and more materials / gold, while the income is decreased.

Back in time when we still had Hongmoon weapon and assessouirs we need a lot of mats, but we also had way more oportunities to farm them.
People will struggle even more to catch up, more will get frustrated and more wil leave.

 

vor einer Stunde schrieb Grimoir:

Like in above 2 points. Make your own lobby with your own requirements. Also why should someone teach mechanics if there are XX amounts of guides on youtube, other websites, on this forum even. If someone does not bring in their own incentive to even watch a mechanics video why would i waste time to explain something i know he wont remember or care about? If people want to learn dungeons they can join a good clan and join their progression runs.

Oh yeah i totaly forgot about YT.

We all just watches a Guide went to TT and cleared it first try, right?

Hell i watshed a lot of Captain Joe and Mentor Pilot videos, maybe i should apply at an airline as a comercial pilot, who need practice when you could a read and and watsh some guides ?

Joining a Guild wont help you in any way.

1. Most guilds, if they are not newly founded, already have static groups for Raids and HM Dungeons. You have to be very lucky to get a place in those groups.

I found a realy good and nice guild and i was lucky to join their TT and even once their ET Raid could learn and practice some things. Anyway i still had to search for my own Raid, cause im just a "replacement" when someone is missing. Maybe i will get a static place someday, but this would mean someone from the current group have to quit in first place. And thats how it would be for anyone who joins a guild.

2. Even if they would take you they wont bother much to explain and simply carry you and wont let you practice some mech cause they just want to do their stuff quickly.

 

We all know you praising anything NC-Soft do and you just keep repeating the same stuf over and over again, even you know (or at least should know) it wont work. 

 

 

 

[Grimoir]

17 minutes ago, Merlin DE said:

Oh yeah i totaly forgot about YT.

We all just watches a Guide went to TT and cleared it first try, right?

Hell i watshed a lot of Captain Joe and Mentor Pilot videos, maybe i should apply at an airline as a comercial pilot, who need practice when you could a read and and watsh some guides ?

Joining a Guild wont help you in any way.

1. Most guilds, if they are not newly founded, already have static groups for Raids and HM Dungeons. You have to be very lucky to get a place in those groups.

I found a realy good and nice guild and i was lucky to join their TT and even once their ET Raid could learn and practice some things. Anyway i still had to search for my own Raid, cause im just a "replacement" when someone is missing. Maybe i will get a static place someday, but this would mean someone from the current group have to quit in first place. And thats how it would be for anyone who joins a guild.

2. Even if they would take you they wont bother much to explain and simply carry you and wont let you practice some mech cause they just want to do their stuff quickly.

 

We all know you praising anything NC-Soft do and you just keep repeating the same stuf over and over again, even you know (or at least should know) it wont work. 

You shouldnt be expecting to join their raids straight off the bat. There are more than enough people that just join get gear and leave. you need to work on your rep in the clans you join, nothing comes for free.

 

2. This depends purely on the clans you join.

 

And i am not praising anything, but i am calling it for what it is. it has nothing to do with NC if players make their own requirements and if others are too lazy to learn or make their own groups. thats a player issue nothing the publisher did, so lets keep the facts straight.

 

"dungeons are too hard and i cant learn mechs" - NC 's fault

"Players make their groups with high requirements and i cant join for a free carry" = NC's fault

"I dont wanna make my own groups and i cant do my dungeons runs" - NC's fault.

Edited September 16, 2019 by Grimoir

[Merlin DE]

vor 17 Minuten schrieb Grimoir:

"dungeons are too hard and i cant learn mechs" - NC 's fault

Havent seen any complains about dungeons beeing to hard in a very long time, please show me (and link them here) all those Complains about dungeons beeing to hard, so NC-Soft feels forced to continusly nerf dungeons. Last time i saw these kind of  coplains where when DT was released.
OH and im Not talking about Solo Dungeons where you truely see some complains, but these are also mostly complains about droprates and NC-Soft never touched these dungeons, at least i cant remember any Solodungeon nerf.

On the contrary i saw a lot of people complaining Dungeons are way to easy.

What people are complaining about that its not realy worthwhile to do Hardmode.

So NC-Soft did the only right thing, istead of macking Hardmode more valuabel, the decided to make normal (now easy) mode even more worthless. [/zynism]

So either im blind or to stupid to find all those imaginary complains about dungeons beeing to hard, or you just fantasize about this point ant telling fairytales. 

vor 23 Minuten schrieb Grimoir:

"Players make their groups with high requirements and i cant join for a free carry" = NC's fault

"I dont wanna make my own groups and i cant do my dungeons runs" - NC's fault.

Try finding a 1600ap group for BC / WC even you make your own, good luck...

 

And yes somehow it is NC-Softs fault because they keep pushing update after update after update rushing people through the content to stay up to date, what most not even manage without cashing.

As i said, i remeber times where people had fun doing dungeons, offering learning partys for dungeons and raids, explaining the mech and gave people the chance to practice.

I also remeber Times where there was a little Button when you entered a dungeon that was meant to explain the mech. But when you have clicked this button it told you "Under developent" or "Comming soon" and some day this button was gone.

Many people requested a "Learning mode" some kind of Dungeon with full mech but reduced dmg and no wipe mech. So people can learn and practice the mechanics and see when the do something wrong. But instead of this NC-Soft decided the easy way lets remove mech and so they made people lazy to even bother to learn the mech.

The count of people who still willing to help new/low geared is shrinking.

 

So yeah, it is NC-Softs fault, at least partial by not offering any mech explanation ingame, not offering any oportumity to learn mech and rushing people like crazy through the content so they dont have time to enjoy the game and help out each other.

 

 

[Grimoir]

2 hours ago, Merlin DE said:

Havent seen any complains about dungeons beeing to hard in a very long time, please show me (and link them here) all those Complains about dungeons beeing to hard, so NC-Soft feels forced to continusly nerf dungeons. Last time i saw these kind of  coplains where when DT was released.
OH and im Not talking about Solo Dungeons where you truely see some complains, but these are also mostly complains about droprates and NC-Soft never touched these dungeons, at least i cant remember any Solodungeon nerf.

On the contrary i saw a lot of people complaining Dungeons are way to easy.

What people are complaining about that its not realy worthwhile to do Hardmode.

So NC-Soft did the only right thing, istead of macking Hardmode more valuabel, the decided to make normal (now easy) mode even more worthless. [/zynism]

So either im blind or to stupid to find all those imaginary complains about dungeons beeing to hard, or you just fantasize about this point ant telling fairytales. 

I see people daily crying in faction chat how everything is hard and stupid and they cant clear it. Hence is why everything gets nerfed. Today we wiped in RT normal because after we told a person to go inside he still didnt....

 

2 hours ago, Merlin DE said:

As i said, i remeber times where people had fun doing dungeons, offering learning partys for dungeons and raids, explaining the mech and gave people the chance to practice.

i remember it too, but ever since most players became spoiled kids, who cry and complains bout literally everything, no one is wasting time or bothers with them.

2 hours ago, Merlin DE said:

Many people requested a "Learning mode" some kind of Dungeon with full mech but reduced dmg and no wipe mech. So people can learn and practice the mechanics and see when the do something wrong. But instead of this NC-Soft decided the easy way lets remove mech and so they made people lazy to even bother to learn the mech.

The count of people who still willing to help new/low geared is shrinking.

 

So yeah, it is NC-Softs fault, at least partial by not offering any mech explanation ingame, not offering any oportumity to learn mech and rushing people like crazy through the content so they dont have time to enjoy the game and help out each other.

Literally no MMO has in-game explanations on mechanics. All guides and details descriptions come from players who invested times in learning it and making guides. Expecting something like this is a perfect example of being spoiled.

Easy mode is meant to be the roughly called "learning curve". And the count of players helping will be shrinking since newer players dont understand what you tell them, expect everything to be gotten instantly, do not show any incentive of their own to actually learn and just looking for free carries.

There is a perfect opportunity in-game to learn and progress by yourself: its called make your own group and learn and progress but guess what, no one wants to do that.

Actually made a experiment with a friend. We both got ourselves some dawn/rift weapons and the non-raid accessories and lower souls we had from previous events and tried making a learning run party. Guess what, no one joined but there were lots of complaints in the chat about how they get kicked from groups because they dont have the gear.

So as much as you keep blaming NC, the fault lies with the players, not them.

 

[prietess]

6 hours ago, Merlin DE said:

We all know you praising anything NC-Soft do and you just keep repeating the same stuf over and over again, even you know (or at least should know) it wont work. 

Don't waste time talking to him, he is a real loyal supporter of NCSoft/NCW and nothing that the companies do are wrong according to him.

He will fight for it with whatever justification he has instead of thinking about what MOST players think/feel.

 

I agree to many things that are mentioned above and I said this few times in other threads.

The issue with this game is too wide gap between people 'who are willing to spend time and learn this game' to people 'who have no brain or unwilling to put effort and time'.

Unfortunately, as a game developer you have to satisfy both needs.

AND IF YOU CAN'T SATISFY BOTH, you gotta choose which sides are more important for you. Life is a choice, unfortunately they made their decision. We could only complain and we know it will not change anything, even though some of them PROUDLY say in the stream 'we heard you bla bla'.

 

I am neutral in terms of easy/removal of normal level. But As someone mentioned above, it seems like MORE people in this forum are against the idea of removing normal modes. Maybe consider listening to majority? For my case, I am one of those who are willing to put effort and time to learn this game. I spent so much time of my life  to play this everyday, and I managed to catch up to almost max gears with F2P with the help of Alts grinding. With this changes in CB removal, solar energies need 4x dailies to get, etc.... I am thinking to stop doing dailies on Alts since it will take too long. ANd i don't need much upgrade materials + Golds anyway now. Some of my clan mates who are upset with this change in daily challenge also said the same thing to me...... they will stop doing alts because not enough time (we are all working professionals) and they might be leaving this game slowly.

 

I would just do main and that means I will most likely play this game less, so tired with playing 6 hrs a day and 20 hrs on weekends for 1 year in order to catch up from 0 to almost max gear(just soul/heart need ~150 more oils to max) +knowing all raids+dungeons mech (except ET boss3) like now.

And when one plays less, he will find other things to do and if that other things are more enjoyable to him, he might slowly get bored of this game. And when it comes to that, who are at lost? Or maybe NCW doesn't care, then just leave him be!

Edited September 17, 2019 by prietess

[Grimoir]

5 hours ago, prietess said:

Don't waste time talking to him, he is a real loyal supporter of NCSoft/NCW and nothing that the companies do are wrong according to him.

He will fight for it with whatever justification he has instead of thinking about what MOST players think/feel.

There are things they do wrong, but blaming a company for something the players themselves created and keep maintaining is not right. Like the high lobby requirements he was complaining about or players not wanting to help others learn. And you know this is a fact.

You know why when he tries to make a lobby with 1600 AP for those dungeons he mentioned no one joins? Because players rather fish for a high geared party for a carry than put effort in clearing/ learning it.  This isn't a publishers fault or the games fault. Its all on the playerbase.

 

Anyway, i did the same  i stopped doing dailies on my alts a while back, to be honest i only did it for the unity exp, so now i just do the weeklies on them and thats about it.

Just play on my main all the time and do dailies, dungeons, then i just farm basin while watching shows for the material pouches. (accumulated over 5k of each crystal mat by just doing basin)

 

[Merlin DE]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Grimoir:

I see people daily crying in faction chat how everything is hard and stupid and they cant clear it. Hence is why everything gets nerfed. Today we wiped in RT normal because after we told a person to go inside he still didnt....

So either you are on NA or EU and blue. Im from EU and red and dont see any people complaining about how "hard" everything is, at least not regarding F8.

Honestly the opposit is the case, People complaining how things get more and more easy and braindead.
Ok some complain about Hong / Mao but these are solo dungeons not F8, not a raid.

As far as i remember 3 people need to enter Soulseperation and a party consist of 6 players. Guess what, this dude was not the only one who failed, there are at least 4 other people who failed too when only 2 went in Soulseperation.

Nowadays you realy have to try hard to wipe a party, even with "just" decent BT gear LoL

Anyway, im still waiting for a proof of all those imaginary fairytail complains about things are to hard. How about some screenshots (Shift-Windowskey-S) but dont forget to black out names ;)

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Grimoir:

Literally no MMO has in-game explanations on mechanics. All guides and details descriptions come from players who invested times in learning it and making guides. Expecting something like this is a perfect example of being spoiled.

Wait what? Let me think. When is started the game, every dungen had its mechanic, Hardmode was just the same only with a 4 men party. So you could learn an practice the mechanic in Normal (6 men party) to prepare yourself for Hardmode (4 men party). People helped each other learnign the mech to clear the dungeons.

Suddenly our Normal (6 men party) became hardmode, while the Normal mode was just a dungeon without any mech even close to hardmode mech compared to the new hardmode. NS is a good example, they removed mech from Normalmode not even 2 month after release. People had no chance to learn the mech in normal mode anymore.

TSM Normal nowadays is just a joke and most higher geared players can even solo this dungeon LoL

So its beeing spoiled to request something we had but what was removed with removing the 4 men parties?

 

Wow, just wow LoL

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Grimoir:

So as much as you keep blaming NC, the fault lies with the players, not them.

No cause NC-Soft made player like this with transforming a good game to a braindead hack n' slay game and keep forcing to many upgrade in to less time so even veterans stuggle to keep up without playing 100 alts or selling their kidney / soul to NC-Soft.

 

vor 5 Stunden schrieb prietess:

I am neutral in terms of easy/removal of normal level. But As someone mentioned above, it seems like MORE people in this forum are against the idea of removing normal modes. Maybe consider listening to majority? For my case, I am one of those who are willing to put effort and time to learn this game. I spent so much time of my life  to play this everyday, and I managed to catch up to almost max gears with F2P with the help of Alts grinding. With this changes in CB removal, solar energies need 4x dailies to get, etc.... I am thinking to stop doing dailies on Alts since it will take too long. ANd i don't need much upgrade materials + Golds anyway now. Some of my clan mates who are upset with this change in daily challenge also said the same thing to me......

That exactly is the problem.

1. the only realy interesting, challanging and enjoiable things left in this game are raids. Everything els in the daily routin is just boring stupid monotone.
2. those who are on the hunt to catch up will have it even more hard and need to spend even more time while those who are quite high in gear will slowly start falling back.

 

vor 5 Stunden schrieb prietess:

they will stop doing alts because not enough time (we are all working professionals) and they might be leaving this game slowly.

Let me recap

People i start playing with: last one quit last night.
People i started BT with, still playing: 0 (and im talking about the 24 men BT raid)

People i started VT with, still playing: 0, ok a few logging in from time to time but non of them still activly playing

 

So i think they dont "just" might quit, lots of those veterans already did.

 

vor 15 Minuten schrieb Grimoir:

There are things they do wrong, but blaming a company for something the players themselves created and keep maintaining is not right. Like the high lobby requirements he was complaining about or players not wanting to help others learn. And you know this is a fact.

You know why when he tries to make a lobby with 1600 AP for those dungeons he mentioned no one joins? Because players rather fish for a high geared party for a carry than put effort in clearing/ learning it.  This isn't a publishers fault or the games fault. Its all on the playerbase.

Yeah it is a fact, even there are more players willing to use LFP up to TSM, at least by now, dont know how it will change after patch.

Anyway, why people changed over time, because they are just unsocial and selfish or because NC-Soft forced them to get things faster and faster to keep up to date?

Think about it and tell me again its not at least in larg parts NC_Softs fault when they forced people to be the way they are now by rushing us through the updates and upgrades while constantly reducing the income?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2019 by Merlin DE

[NightFer]

NC Doesn't force you to be elitist, players do. It was known from the release of the game back in January 2016 they are forcing the updates fast, because they want to catch up to KR content. Nothing new. You don't need 2k ap to do dungeons in normal mode, 1.4k is enough, even 1.2k is. People quitting the game because they can't catch up to the whales is plain stupid. Ofc you can't catch up to them, they spend real money to progress faster than you, what do you expect? Western world want things handed to themselves for not putting efforts in playing the actual game. Typical spoiled community!

[ImoutoMaster]

vor 19 Stunden schrieb Fiana:

@ombremq @Grimoir @Merlin DE iam one of those people who want this easy mode and hard mode from long time

and i think this is actually a very good change, from now all of you so called "veteran" who often boasted high gear finally will try hard mode in f8, and then we can enjoy "the mech" of dungeon in this game in their full glory, not just some brain dead dps today dungeon are

why you guys complain anyways? scary because mech in hard mode? :3
it's gonne be fun, i wonder how many of this veteran remember mech for HH

Ever considered people who dont like PVE but are forced to play it due to the lack of possibilites to get PVP gear without it ?

Thoose people dont want to run hardmode they just want to be done with it as fast as possible. I heared rumors that you need to do hardmode now to get legendary items (or 100 runs) that means a PVP Player is either forced to farm to really high gear or run 100 times. I see more people quitting instead of doing that.

Atleast with Normal mode you could get some gold and legendarys in a somewhat reasonable ammount of time but if the rumors are correct we are even more forced to play PVE.

Even if the rumors are wrong they still decrease the value of running the easy/normal mode which inceases the time you have to spend in PVE again same as 8 dayli challenge.

vor einer Stunde schrieb Grimoir:

There are things they do wrong, but blaming a company for something the players themselves created and keep maintaining is not right. Like the high lobby requirements he was complaining about or players not wanting to help others learn. And you know this is a fact.

The players didnt create thoose requirements completly by themselve. The whole reason to upgrade gear is to do more dmg and get faster through the stuff. Why should you slow yourselfe down with some low bobs ?  I am pretty sure they intendet this system here in EU/NA cause in RU etc. you cannot see the gear of others which would remove the requirements people ask cause they cannot proof if you got the gear or not.

 

Talking about myselfe i dont mind lower people in my group if i expect the group to do enough dmg for the boss i dont mind but i completly understand why people want thoose requirements.  Its simple if you want to run higher dungeons with like 1.3K AP which might be possible get into a guild and do it with them ! What are the klans for if not for something like this ?

vor 21 Minuten schrieb NightFer:

Western world want things handed to themselves for not putting efforts in playing the actual game. Typical spoiled community!

They dont want things free or handed over they want farming spots. You should be able to reach max gear withing some months and not years. (talking about current patch not including stuff which comes in the meantime since you begin your upgrades)

Zitat

You know why when he tries to make a lobby with 1600 AP for those dungeons he mentioned no one joins? Because players rather fish for a high geared party for a carry than put effort in clearing/ learning it.  This isn't a publishers fault or the games fault. Its all on the playerbase.

Wrote above why its not players fault only. All they have to do is remove the abillity to see others gear but alot of people including myselfe wouldnt like that cause you cannot tell if the specific person is enough. Alot of Raven 3 trolls would join WC hardmode or the new dungeon hardmode and you would have to restart the lobby over and over again till you get a decent group. This is time consuming and would lead to alot of people quitting again.

Edited September 17, 2019 by ImoutoMaster

[Merlin DE]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb NightFer:

NC Doesn't force you to be elitist, players do. It was known from the release of the game back in January 2016 they are forcing the updates fast, because they want to catch up to KR content. Nothing new

That wouldnt be a problem if NC-Soft wouldnt constantly reducing gold and material income whil pushing updates like crazy

 

vor 2 Stunden schrieb NightFer:

You don't need 2k ap to do dungeons in normal mode, 1.4k is enough, even 1.2k is. People quitting the game because they can't catch up to the whales is plain stupid.

For sure you dont need it for most dungeons / raids, but thats what most players request. And no its not plain stupid that people left because they cant catch up. Because with every new genereation of gear they are left more and more behind and have less chances to catch up because NC-Soft might lower the prices of old stuff but also lowering the income, so in the end you dont realy save time with the reduction materialcosts of older gear.

 

vor 2 Stunden schrieb NightFer:

Western world want things handed to themselves for not putting efforts in playing the actual game. Typical spoiled community!

Oh realy? Tell me more.

Must be the reason while we always ask for valuable farming spots, cause we are to spoiled, dont want to put anny efford and want everything for free.
So requesting valuable farming spots instead of getting everything for free == want to get everything for free. Seems legit...

Whats next? Telling us earth is flat, water always find its level, show me the curve? At least you are as good as any flerf parroting this nonsens you states above.

No one want his/her stuff for free. We just want valuabel farming sports and the oportunity to farm our stuff in a reasonable amount of time.

Instead we need more time with even less income with the upcomming patch.

So dont assume we are spoiled and want everything for free...

 

[Grimoir]

4 hours ago, ImoutoMaster said:

Wrote above why its not players fault only. All they have to do is remove the abillity to see others gear but alot of people including myselfe wouldnt like that cause you cannot tell if the specific person is enough. Alot of Raven 3 trolls would join WC hardmode or the new dungeon hardmode and you would have to restart the lobby over and over again till you get a decent group. This is time consuming and would lead to alot of people quitting again.

I would actually like the hidden gear option so you cannot see what people have, but then they have to implement some sort of gear score as requirement to enter dungeons and raids.

 

5 hours ago, Merlin DE said:

No cause NC-Soft made player like this with transforming a good game to a braindead hack n' slay game and keep forcing to many upgrade in to less time so even veterans stuggle to keep up without playing 100 alts or selling their kidney / soul to NC-Soft.

you arent meant to get everything maxed day 1 it comes out.

[MassiveEgo]

On 9/15/2019 at 9:05 PM, Grimoir said:

Food for thought: "its stupid its a scam but i will buy 200 keys anyway".....if its a scam, don't participate.

I think the point being made is that as long as there are enough people to make it profitable, we'll keep having joke level drops even in hard modes, which is what currently happens. Everybody would have to not do the trove AT ALL for them to reconsider their monetization and normalize the upgrade material progression ingame. Without the trove wares on the market annually, gear levels of the player base would look drastically different with the miserable mat drops from daily challenge, dungeons and reward coffers.

Trove was originally made with that exact point in mind if you remember. Jonathan did say it's their solution to the massive shortage of materials back when the silverfrost mountains patch hit and baleful 3 used to cost an arm and a leg... kinda like how thornbreaker 3-6 cost an arm and a leg right now.

The point some people try to make here is that the gear progression is long term. True, that it is. The obvious issue however is that there isn't enough of FUN stuff to do in order to adhere to said gear progression. A couple of kinda challenging dungeons and a dozen that are a practical joke, is not how you keep your playerbase happy and having fun, while they farm their gear materials and such. For the progression to be long term, there needs to be TONS of content to do, thousands of different things to kill and a bazillion locations to do it in, otherwise it's just a barren click simulation, kinda how it is right now. Granted they wanted BnS to be a PvP thing, trying to get into the moba cash cow, it obviously is not gonna work here. South Korea = small little spec of land with the best networking on the planet. Europe = a huge continent where the network is composed of all tiers of carriers, with half the traffic going through t1 backbones at places, which ruins the ping big time.

So without the PvE, this game will be in the ground quite literally in a week. And the PvE is lacking, a lot. Trying to "help" the PvE with troves, is plain robbery and not what this game needs. Ofc if you ask NC's CEO if he would rather rund proper content for this game, or get himself a bigger yiacht... only he knows the answer, but I can make a speculation that's less a probability and more an inevitability.