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Aulann

Easy Mode is a very bad idea

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Aulann   

While trying to make dungeons easy for the newer/lowgear players you effect the entire playerbase as a whole. The dungeons are already mind numbly easy with a few still having oneshot mech. By tuning them to the point where any player can just mindlessly DPS without any worries or worst, allowing high gear players to just solo the dungeon so they can keep all the rare items to themselves. Dungeons are meant to be a learning curve for players to get ready for raiding by both gearing up and learning their mechs which many raid bosses share in concept. If a player doesn't learn to be scared of standing in the fire in a dungeon then by the time they hit raid it's going to be a lot harder for them to install that fear/knowledge of not standing in the fire.

 

If you are going to add a easy mode, here are a few ideas I have.

  • Only have dungeons that are obsolete.

"Dungeons that are outdated and rarely run. As of 9/14/2019 dungeons such as Ransack Treasury and above are still high valued dungeons for most of the playerbased and should not have a easy mode."

  • Have important items drop only on hard mode

"Items that still have high valued to higher end players should only drop from HM. Imperial legendary accessories, Garnet and Demon Fang ect. People can still run Easy mode for their 10/100 runs for ST/BC/WC+ but to have a chance for the actual item to drop it should only drop on HM from now on. This allows new/undergear or even players who only want to do their daily quest the freedom to while detouring higher gear players to just solo farm easy and want to actually still do the dungeon on HM."

  • Add HM only dailies

"There are a lot of people who ran these dungeons for the gold/mats. with the nerf to gold on dailies it's less appealing. That's why I think having a Hard mode daily quest that gives extra gold/mats would be really great. to keep those purple trains going"

 

These are all simple ideas that I have come up with, I know many people won't agree or have their own thoughts and I fully respect and ask for them to voices themselves but trust me when I say that making the game easier/more causal friendly doesn't help anyone. One of the worst things to ever happen to World of Warcraft was when they started bringing in easy mode for both Dungeons and "Raids" (which I know NCsoft talked about doing)

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Grimoir   

The main reason for that easy mode is to give players that lack the ability to learn and make parties to be able to complete their daily challenges. Now, since those easy dungeons will have nearly no good drops and gold rewards, i think its fine. I mean they wanted easy things here you go but without the rewards.

For those that learn and such there will still be normal and hard mode so for those nothing changes,

 

I am all for those legendary drops you suggest to only happen in hard mode.

 

as for dailies, from what i saw and i dont know if i saw this good. you will have 8 dailies to complete and seems that the last daily will always be a hard mode dungeon.

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I'm under the impression from the stream we will only have Easy and Hard, no Normal. Either way I feel dungeons shouldn't of ever been touched and made easier as honestly they are easy even on hard mode as long as everyone knows what they are doing.

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vor 58 Minuten schrieb Grimoir:

For those that learn and such there will still be normal and hard mode so for those nothing changes,

There is no NM anymore.^^ They deleted it. Just easy mode and hardmode. Hardmode only for DST/BC/WC and the new dungeon. Rest easy mode.

 

 

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No normal mode anymore? Only Easy and Hard? I hope that's a bad joke.

 

I had already adjusted to the possibilities a Easy, Normal and Hard mode. But that . , , ,

Edited by Wolfengel

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KzE   
7 hours ago, Grimoir said:

Now, since those easy dungeons will have nearly no good drops and gold rewards, i think its fine.

Its not fine. There will be no normal modes and deleted hard modes up to DST. Out of story ppl will run DST HM? :D

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Grimoir   
50 minutes ago, KzE said:

Its not fine. There will be no normal modes and deleted hard modes up to DST. Out of story ppl will run DST HM? :D

they will have easy modes, since for our version they should still drop the material chests, not just naryu coins like in Kr. So they will have those since everyone complained dungeons are too hard.

at least now hard modes will be somewhat "more profitable". I dont like approach fully but hey....

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KzE   
2 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

they will have easy modes, since for our version they should still drop the material chests, not just naryu coins like in Kr. So they will have those since everyone complained dungeons are too hard.

at least now hard modes will be somewhat "more profitable". I dont like approach fully but hey....

Normal mode material chests had already abysmal drops. Now those will be nerfed even more. I dont see how this will help players at all. Or we will run Yeoharan 24/7 or what? :D

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vor 12 Minuten schrieb Grimoir:

they will have easy modes, since for our version they should still drop the material chests, not just naryu coins like in Kr. So they will have those since everyone complained dungeons are too hard.

at least now hard modes will be somewhat "more profitable". I dont like approach fully but hey....

I like your Point of view and zynism. Where did they made HM more profitable. as far as i know nothing have changed. Oh well they removed every HM except the last 3-4 dungeons and nerfed the new easy mode. Well thats the NC-Soft style to make things  more attractive.

Instead of adding some valuable things lets just nerf some other things... Great

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Rysa   

Every other region has all three modes. Don't be freaking stupid NCSoft, and make all 3 modes available.

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Grimoir   
2 hours ago, Merlin DE said:

Instead of adding some valuable things lets just nerf some other things... Great

thats because they listen to the wrong part of the playerbase.

 

2 hours ago, KzE said:

Normal mode material chests had already abysmal drops. Now those will be nerfed even more. I dont see how this will help players at all. Or we will run Yeoharan 24/7 or what? :D

there will still be basin and mushin floor 15 etc... to farm materials. And the remaining 4 hardmodes. Surprised no one is complaining about them removing the celestial basin daily quest xD

Edited by Grimoir

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KzE   
14 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

there will still be basin and mushin floor 15 etc... to farm materials. And the remaining 4 hardmodes

4 hard modes are not an option for sub 1600 AP ppl, basin is bad without premium and clan buff (a real clan dont even take you as a member with sub TT gear). Rest is nonsense.

 

Quote

Surprised no one is complaining about them removing the celestial basin daily quest xD

Thats was a joke. Nerfing this play with 10 alts is always a welcome.

Edited by KzE

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb Rysa:

Every other region has all three modes. Don't be freaking stupid NCSoft, and make all 3 modes available.

They wont, its a quite easy calculations. Less material means people wil progress even slower which will lead at least a few to spend some money on mats at the daily offer in F10

 

vor 40 Minuten schrieb Grimoir:

thats because they listen to the wrong part of the playerbase.

As they always did in the past and then wonder why so many left...

 

vor 41 Minuten schrieb Grimoir:

there will still be basin and mushin floor 15 etc... to farm materials. And the remaining 4 hardmodes. Surprised no one is complaining about them removing the celestial basin daily quest xD

basin is not realy a valuable farming source, the only still valuable source atm is MSP. 

Since we will need 6 dailys for all rewards and there are also HM dungeons in the daily rotations many people will have trouble to finish their daily quest.

 

Also it would be nice to have  an official statement, why the hell every region have easy, normal and hardmode and we only get easy and hardmode, but

since our community managers dont care about the community i guess we never will know...

 

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KzE   
25 minutes ago, Merlin DE said:

basin is not realy a valuable farming source, the only still valuable source atm is MSP. 

The 4-6, 1.6k+... you know...

 

25 minutes ago, Merlin DE said:

Also it would be nice to have  an official statement, why the hell every region have easy, normal and hardmode and we only get easy and hardmode, but

since our community managers dont care about the community i guess we never will know...

They dont want to divide even more the super low number playerbase.

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Grimoir   
27 minutes ago, KzE said:

They dont want to divide even more the super low number playerbase.

Plus its already a proven fact that since vast majority cant even complete a normal mode dungeon cause its too "hard" and the geared players run hard modes anyway, there is no need for the middleman normal mode xD

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KzE   
1 minute ago, Grimoir said:

Plus its already a proven fact that since vast majority cant even complete a normal mode dungeon cause its too "hard" and the geared players run hard modes anyway, there is no need for the middleman normal mode xD

This is true. Sandstorm first boss... all dead.

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Arohk   
1 hour ago, KzE said:

This is true. Sandstorm first boss... all dead.

You must be incredibly dumb AND bad to wipe at this boss in normal mode, even if you fail the mech you wont wipe in normal mode,

I mean i run ST with my alt just by picking a random group and never wiped there once, yes people fail mech all the time but you still dont wipe.

 

Easy mode is completely unnecessary and a waste of time spend from the programmers.

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KzE   
14 minutes ago, Arohk said:

You must be incredibly dumb AND bad to wipe at this boss in normal mode, even if you fail the mech you wont wipe in normal mode,

I mean i run ST with my alt just by picking a random group and never wiped there once, yes people fail mech all the time but you still dont wipe.

 

Easy mode is completely unnecessary and a waste of time spend from the programmers.

And i see alot of ppl who wipe, half of them die even before mech. Maybe i need to start screenshot them.

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5 hours ago, KzE said:

And i see alot of ppl who wipe, half of them die even before mech. Maybe i need to start screenshot them.

Reminds me of people still wiping in Shadowmoor, Dreamsong, and Brood Chamber. None of which are overly hard on normal mode yet it still happens because A) People are too lazy to go check out videos or read the guides B) Not many players are willing to teach new people C) Bots.

8 hours ago, KzE said:

4 hard modes are not an option for sub 1600 AP ppl, basin is bad without premium and clan buff (a real clan dont even take you as a member with sub TT gear). Rest is nonsense.

Actually Basin isn't bad for materials w/o premium or clan buff as long as you do it on a class that can kill quickly letting you get the material chest as drops but also peaches which can be turned into treasure pouch since you don't really need anything else from that area. Panda Cache Village is another if you catch a time when no one is in it PVPing. Short Dungeons like ST/SSM as example that don't take much time to run.

7 hours ago, KzE said:

The 4-6, 1.6k+... you know...

MSP 1-6 is a joke. Doesn't require 1.6k+ unless your completely suck at your class or just want to clear it fast. If you don't match the stupid requirements of others, make your own party and players will join (people do still help new players or lower geared ones). I mean 1-5 can be soloed with decent gear, 6 is doable with Grand Celestial. But in terms of materials better choices which take far less time.

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So compared to the 3 difficulty KR system, We're  going to a 2 mode system.

KR system-

  • 1-- Beginner mode- heavily reduced (none besideds dst boss 1?) wipe mechs, no mat boxes, no boss drops.
  • 2-- Normal Mode-  Kinda the stuff from our normal modes, slightly reduced wipe mechs possibly in line with dungeon nerfs over time(some of these may have leaked live already like they sometimes do)
  • 3-- Hard mode- Outfits, legendary psyches, gold chance in dynamic box(daily quests reduced gold, since completeable on baby mode).

With only 2 modes coming to NA,  Hard mode one of them(though no mention of dynamic gold, so maybe not exactly the same), The second mode, NA/EU "Easy", is either KR Beginner, KR normal, or an entirely new beast of its own.

 

KR players have posted screenshots of KR beginner cliffs mobs to compare to the Easy Mode cliffs on the NA/EU livestream. Thanks Alice!  The cliffs mobs hp in NA/EU easy lined up with KR normal. This supports the KR2 mode 2 being our "Easy" mode (or a new hybrid between the 2).

 

Ru players have posted screenshots of RU dynamic from "Easy" cliffs (can't say for  sure, since it wasn't a dynamic of an released dungeons) that looked comparable to live NA/EU current rewards (mat box, 3 fragements, etc).  Thanks Tsuki!  This also supports the mode 2 being our Easy mode or something new.

 

As a sidenote about the name choice, calling it easy instead of normal is probably good, normal has a tone about it that infers its a standard difficulty, stops players from pushing into hard, since normal is normal.  I feel this may be a good change of naming going forward.

 

 

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Useless millennials cant be bothered to learn anything that isn't snapchat or Instagram related. When I do dungeons I first learn the dungeon well enough so I'm not entirely incompetent. I don't even know how these fail citizens of the world are able to function in real society. 

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vor 18 Stunden schrieb Grimoir:

Plus its already a proven fact that since vast majority cant even complete a normal mode dungeon cause its too "hard" and the geared players run hard modes anyway, there is no need for the middleman normal mode xD

 

vor 16 Stunden schrieb Arohk:

You must be incredibly dumb AND bad to wipe at this boss in normal mode, even if you fail the mech you wont wipe in normal mode,

I mean i run ST with my alt just by picking a random group and never wiped there once, yes people fail mech all the time but you still dont wipe.

And why it this a thing?

I wouldnt only blame the people but mostly NC-Soft. Why?
Well when i started BnS 3.5 years ago we had many players. People did care about others and helped each other. I even saw this behaviir when Desolated tomb where relesed.

Ok there alwasy have been some people with higher gear but the gap was by far not as big as it is today. Anyway quite a lot of people, at least on my server, offered learing runs in F-Chata and took the time to teach others the mech, even it took an hour or two. It was fun learning by doing working as a team and so on.

Yeah we once had the time to do stuff like this even we need to farm for our gear we had way less presure to keep up than we have today.

But then NC-Soft started to bring update after update after update, Upgrades got more and more expensive while material and gold sources continusly got reduced.

The gap in gear started to grow faster and faster. Trove and co did the rest. People where forced to spend a lot of time farming sor sell their kidney to NC-Soft when they want to keep up. Thats when many people start leaving the game.

Suddenly everyone was in rush to do dailys a quick as posible to farm their stuff. No one had time to explain dungeons anymore the fun amlost was gone.

you where on a constant hunt for ap to keep up doing your stuff and find acceptet in groups for higher dungeons you need to continue gear up, like NS for example. When you finaly reached the requirements the requirements where set higher and the hunt for ap started again.

We had about 3 years less time than asia to get to the gear we now can get whil it was not realy cheaper or more easy to obtain the gear.

 

Also NC-Soft decided to nerf dungeons just a few "days" while the dmg output skyrocket. Dungeosn bekame braindead hack n slay events. You just need 1 or 2 high geared players and can skip any mech. If someone fails no on tells him/her what went wrong, they get pciked up and carried through the dungeon. Even when they ask what went wrong, they most time get now answer.

 

So its mostly NC-Softs fault but you all have to blame yourself to, at least those who dont take the time to help others out.

I am GC9 full TT geared FM, can do most dungeons solo but anyway i use LFP in F8. Sometimes im lucky and have a high ap group, sometimes i have some "lowies".

Last time i had a complete "low" Group in TSM and i thought ok that will take some time. We failed at the first boss cause someone pulled him into a crystal.

I took the time to explain what went wrong and how to do it and we cleared the dungeon in the third try. People where happy and thankfull someone explained the mech and i had some fun and challange. And it all took maybe 5 minutes more than with a high ap group, so where the hell is the problem? 

 

 

 

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From personal experience, I didn't think the game's dungeons was all that bad to tell you the truth. I may not have been able to get on in the last two years, but at least I played enough dungeons to see for myself. Besides they was color-coded for a reason to show the difficulty, to begin with. If someone looks at a purple portal and doesn't seem to take the hint that its different than that should be on them. There is plenty of walkthroughs out there that explains all this and I should know as I did a little of my own explaining things. Still, even to this day, this is one of my favorite games I missed to play in the last two years regardless.

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Grimoir   
2 hours ago, Merlin DE said:

So its mostly NC-Softs fault but you all have to blame yourself to, at least those who dont take the time to help others out.

I am GC9 full TT geared FM, can do most dungeons solo but anyway i use LFP in F8. Sometimes im lucky and have a high ap group, sometimes i have some "lowies".

Last time i had a complete "low" Group in TSM and i thought ok that will take some time. We failed at the first boss cause someone pulled him into a crystal.

I took the time to explain what went wrong and how to do it and we cleared the dungeon in the third try. People where happy and thankfull someone explained the mech and i had some fun and challange. And it all took maybe 5 minutes more than with a high ap group, so where the hell is the problem? 

i do it too but the problem is, you can explain to the person the mechanic but i can guarantee you 9/10 times if you ask them about it an hour later they wont remember a thing you told them because they simply do not care.

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FlCosmin   

If I can do solo WC and BC it is enough for me to see it as a win because I can't stand the pleb population in F8, that place made me from a good caring person to a very cancer one, only done like 16 runs in WC since it came out and stopped doing it because I only find parties that ask for excessive AP or "Know Mech" and still don't know mechs or capable to DPS even with their whale-like gear, I play main BM for over 3 years I know only portion the mech there because nobody wanted to explain to me what I need to do and not to i had to figure it out myself after wiping a few times but by that time everyone left and still blaming me for not knowing mech even though they didn't even bother to tell me... so yea if easy mode = solo mode for me it is a WIN!

Edited by FlCosmin
add a few more words

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