SilverFoxR

Hae Mujin "Cry for Help" event showcases a lot of issues that need addressing

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Hey, all!

 

So, it's been just under a week since the current event began and I think we can all say that this event is pretty cringe worthy... and I'm not just talking about Hae Mujin's attempt to be "hip".

 

The current event, to be blunt, caters only to "end game" players... and by "end game", we all by now know that means "whales" (people spending RL money to boost themselves in-game). The matter of killing the various forms of Hae Mujin boil down to little more than a DPS test with a couple of attacks to watch out for. There's no actual challenge to these forms other than avoiding large, telegraphed attacks or CCing when the bar opens up. However, you will fail the various forms if you don't do roughly 100k dps, 200k dps, 400k dps and finally over 1 million dps. We can safely call this event "insert damage/gear here", nothing more. After all, you require both the weekly/daily white coins AND the DPS wall red coins to buy anything other than Fortune Potions...

 

...but of course, in order to buy the various costume items in the shop, you either need 1 high-quality fabric or, in the case of the shadow wings, be "end game" (whale) enough to have that "over 1 million dps" and beat the final form of Hae Mujin 10 times. I don't tend to use the phrase "pay 2 win", but in the case of these wings, yeah... it literally becomes a pay to win item... one people will actually want. Oh, but it's okay... because the "filthy casuals" can buy the cartoony shark outfit... sure.

 

Now, with all that said, this event brings up another issue, one that really should be looked at - class balance.

 

As mentioned above, you require to be able to do a set DPS on the various forms of Hae Mujin to continue... however, this also puts certain classes/paths at a considerable disadvantage as, even with solid gear that one class could clear the DPS wall with, it might not be enough for others. For example, my "wind" KFM has pretty respectable gear (A9, st accs, full-crit SS, awakened soul, etc) and has BARELY eked out a single victory against Masked Mujin before his enrage mode damage resistance kicked in. On the other hand, my newest character, a "frost" Warden with SD 5 weapon and little better than stage 3 raven accessories (and st 3 VT necklace) could almost accomplish the exact same feat. Heck, my Warden doesn't even have a fused badge yet, still using the Magnum for it's cooldown bonus. I've barely put work into him... and he's already almost able to surpass my main character I've been playing for multiple years now.

 

Now, I've mentioned this before online to get the response "well, KFM is a tank class, they don't have good DPS"... buuuuut when you look at Warden and now the new path of Blade Master, that argument doesn't quite hold up... since BOTH are tank classes that are currently capable of outputting pretty high DPS. Meanwhile, KFM by comparison is... good for Fighting Spirit (BB). Quite pathetic, really.

 

And then we also have the issue with class paths being considerably better or worse than others. I mentioned to my clan how I couldn't believe my KFM was almost being outclassed by my Warden with lower AP and worse gear and they immediately assumed I was using the "fire" path, because "fire has terrible DPS, so you're never going to do well in the event". Of course, when I mentioned I was using "wind" path, they got more confused, then assumed my Warden was "lightning" path, because it's better than "frost". If you compare some of the alternate paths, you see some significant disparities... the most obvious one right now being Blade Master, who's new path has been very much considered "completely broken".

 

To put it simply, a lot of classes need some significant improvements to damage and playstyle... especially if we're going to be doing more of these "insert damage to continue" events (which we really shouldn't have in the first place). Simple tweaks to damage per skill could help mitigate the damage gap quite easily. I would hope the staff read this thread and begin planning buffs to the various classes and paths in order to balance things with the already (clearly) overpowered ones.

 

TL;DR - The current event seems to cater primarily for "end game" (pay to win) users and also shows that various classes and paths need significant buffs to be at all competitive with the vastly overpowered ones.

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Having events be attractive to starting players is important, imo.  I think the account limits on select rewards are a good addition going forward, in respect to managing how easy/hard event rewards are to get/abuse of easy event rewards.

 

Class disparity is pretty huge.  3rd specs have an advantage with their shiny new dps moves and can compete with weaker equips relative to old classes and skill prestige trees.  In shackled isles, this is addressed by banning the 3rd specs from participation (they still can melt your face in arena, 100-0 aircombo BM 3rd, i hate you).  In 1v1's and 6v6's a different way they address performance of classes is by separating the rewards by individual class rankings (I would like to see this for shackled isles as well).  Maybe then you wouldn't get a 3rd spec low gear coming in and saying "EZ clear in raven 9 with solak accessory, get gud"(exaggeration there).

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Grimoir   
39 minutes ago, SilverFoxR said:

The current event, to be blunt, caters only to "end game" players... and by "end game", we all by now know that means "whales" (people spending RL money to boost themselves in-game). The matter of killing the various forms of Hae Mujin boil down to little more than a DPS test with a couple of attacks to watch out for. There's no actual challenge to these forms other than avoiding large, telegraphed attacks or CCing when the bar opens up. However, you will fail the various forms if you don't do roughly 100k dps, 200k dps, 400k dps and finally over 1 million dps. We can safely call this event "insert damage/gear here", nothing more. After all, you require both the weekly/daily white coins AND the DPS wall red coins to buy anything other than Fortune Potions...

While i agree on everything else you mentioned, i do not agree with this part. ! mil DPs is not being a whale, its literally what players who participated in the past few events should easily be able to pull out, especially since with each stage you get a heart / soul of a higher tier ti help you out.

There were plenty soul / weapon / accessory events to get the gear up enough to do that 1 mil dps, now if someone cant handle playing his class to avoid a few CC's from the boss which are super easy to avoid without ana ctual DPS downtime, thats a player issue and not a game or event issue.

 

To give you an example, with aransu 3 and the stage 3 BT accessories, and the soul from the starter pack, VT badge and a purple soul badge my warlock alt, can hold / sustain 450-500k DPS. Had i cared to boost its gear a bit i am sure it could easily hold the 1mil required for the event dungeon.

 

So i would say its not the event itself locking players out of rewards, but the players themselves.

 

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Okay, so... with the last event, I moved my KFM up to A9 from A7. I did not have the gold for Lightstealer's Armour to go Grand Celestial. With that said, my KFM has St 10 minimum accessories from BT and VT, fused soul Badge, VT mystic badges, 5/7 Gilded Triangular gems, crit-primed VT SS and a soul and heart that match the one given in the event... and despite this AND despite CCing and not being CCed AT ALL... I was JUST barely able to beat Masked Mujin at about -3 seconds on the clock.

 

So, for having the prior event getting people "caught up" for this event, it didn't exactly do it. Well, it did depending on what class you are. After all, my Warden who has 200 less AP and barely-upgraded accessories... could almost get the same damage output.

 

And, of course, neither of those characters would still stand a chance getting through 1/4 of Admy Mujin's health bar before he enraged. So again, my point stands... the prior events could gear you up decently, but this event shows it wasn't clearly enough... especially for certain classes. A new Blade Master, maybe... a Warden, probably. Most other classes? Good luck.

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Woah64   

i guess im not going to like this, but im just simle warlock that plays ice :)

and i cant defeat last boss :)

i can do around 700-800k sustain dmg and my gear is ok i guess :)

for warlock to do 1.1m sustain dmg i guess u need to have all max endgame gear, cuz its rly bad as it is now.

they need to buff warlock, imo.

i work rly hard to gear my warlock, and it is my main, but 1m in that solo dungeon is rly hard for me :)

i guess i can just skip it, and hope for better future, and i hope to see those wings again xD cuz i wanted them and i cant beat boss xD

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, ElectricPotato said:

Class disparity is pretty huge.  3rd specs have an advantage with their shiny new dps moves and can compete with weaker equips relative to old classes and skill prestige trees.  In shackled isles, this is addressed by banning the 3rd specs from participation (they still can melt your face in arena, 100-0 aircombo BM 3rd, i hate you).  In 1v1's and 6v6's a different way they address performance of classes is by separating the rewards by individual class rankings (I would like to see this for shackled isles as well).  Maybe then you wouldn't get a 3rd spec low gear coming in and saying "EZ clear in raven 9 with solak accessory, get gud"(exaggeration there).

The funny thing is that the 3rd path disparity is only half-true. While 3rd spec Blade Master is ridiculously overpowered, 3rd spec KFM is relatively comparable to "wind" spec. Wolf spec can burst a little higher, giving a very short fight an edge to this version. Wind spec has a better overall sustained damage, making them the safer choice in fights over a minute or two.

Edited by SilverFoxR

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4 hours ago, Woah64 said:

i guess im not going to like this, but im just simle warlock that plays ice :)

and i cant defeat last boss :)

i can do around 700-800k sustain dmg and my gear is ok i guess :)

If you can sustain 700-800k with Ice warlock then you would do over a million with shadow warlock, I don't know if you can still change though, probably not.

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Arohk   
Posted (edited)

The finishing event was primarily targeted towards newer players and endgame players didn't get anything from the cheaper weapon upgrades.

 

did you hear them complain that the fish-oils only worked till GC 3?

 

The event before only worked for Raven and VT accessories, and again not for endgame players.

 

there are so many events  to help people catch up, stop complaining and stop spending event currency on costumes instead f upgrading your gear for cheap.

 

Man you DONT EVEN NEED TO DO MUJIN 4 TO GET COINS HE DROPS NOTHING.

 

 

Edited by Arohk

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Grimoir   
48 minutes ago, Arohk said:

The finishing event was primarily targeted towards newer players and endgame players didn't get anything from the cheaper weapon upgrades.

I actually used this to make a second weapon, so now i have a GC9 and Shadowforge9 weapon xD and i have to say, i do 200-300k more with the shadowforge lol xD

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Woah64   
Posted (edited)

Man you DONT EVEN NEED TO DO MUJIN 4 TO GET COINS HE DROPS NOTHING.

 

u need it to get wings -.- and lots of ppl want them,

and dont tell me u need to work on your gear, becouse i play this game every day, and i spend lot time in it

even more time on weekends

and my gear is rly good, it is just that i am ice wl, and no i dont want to play shadow i play what i like.

to me 1m is too much for now,

i know i wont get wings, but i just cant stand those stupid statements of lots of ppl, like gear up and u dont need any thing from stage 4 event.

not all ppl here can gear up fast, and some ppl love to do true endgame, that is cosmetic, fasion!

 

Edited by Woah64

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Imo event dungeons that are basically a dps check, shouldn't exist. Make something like hong but more mechanically intensive with permanent stacks for failing a mech. Toss balancer gear in, like with realmrift supply chain and all is good. An event dungeon that relies on what this game's pve is all about - skills.

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Arohk   
1 hour ago, Woah64 said:

 

u need it to get wings -.- and lots of ppl want them,

and dont tell me u need to work on your gear, becouse i play this game every day, and i spend lot time in it

even more time on weekends

and my gear is rly good, it is just that i am ice wl, and no i dont want to play shadow i play what i like.

to me 1m is too much for now,

i know i wont get wings, but i just cant stand those stupid statements of lots of ppl, like gear up and u dont need any thing from stage 4 event.

not all ppl here can gear up fast, and some ppl love to do true endgame, that is cosmetic, fasion!

 

well sorry for you that you play WL right now, worst class for solo dungeons, but believe me, shadow is not any better, i have a WL alt and deal a lot less damage with shadow, and also lose mobility and iframes, i don't know what WL is good for right now, they are hard to kill in 6vs6 though.. somehow.

 

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Uldrum   

With my whale gear i kill stage 4 in about 60 - 70 seconds and doing around 3 million dps. 

 

So for 1 - 1.5 Mil dps you don't need much gear, and definitly not whale gear. 

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3 hours ago, ShadowLane said:

Still warlocks do better than assassins...

Yeah, sin is a pain in solo dungeons. Doesn't help when bosses like to do knockbacks. Every other melee classes gets to stand in place to dps, while sin only has that microsecond iframe that requires expert timing. If you mess up once, it's not even worth bothering anymore. The only chance is to massively outgear the boss. Stealth and evasion are the most useless stats in pve.

 

It doesn't help that they have that 2 skill that propels them across the map, when they're a melee class. You can't turn it off. Trying to apply a timebomb in an aoe field is a nightmare.

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I came back to this game just before the Longgui event and needless to say, I could not make a dent in it. Just playing normal since and not spending money on gear, I upgraded enough to easily pull the 1m req. for this event... Nothing in the event is pay to win. It's just if you know your class and have put enough time in to farm your gear.

If you are having troubles, make sure to upgrade your accessories (everyone whines about the weapon...). They are a much better dps boost than weapon anyways. Divinity/Dragon Bracelet from Hong and Prophecy from Mao are a massive boost from the base junk you get from the story line xD (And VT neck). Neither require super high dps or even a party to farm.

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Posted (edited)

@SilverFoxR Yeah you have to be a pay2win whale to have ~1million dps, sure..:HajoonSurprised:
I can understand, that it's frustrating to not get a cool cosmetic item because of a dps wall. I would prefer some equalized (solo)eventdungeon with mechanics, because this eventdungeon is just borring. BUT I really don't like this attitude to say all of this players with good gear are pay2win whale cashers, this is just stupid. You know there are players like me, who played this game for a long time and who took their time to do raids? Who learned boss mechanics when they were not nerfed and raided many hours to get next tier of gear? And then somebody tells you "ew casher whale"...just yikes.
And like I said ~1 Million dps isn't hard to reach nowadays. Just get some tt accessories (if u don't have a raid -> mostly sold for 1k gold each), hong bracelet and aransu 9, use event soul and you should get way more than 1 Million. Maybe you don't even need tt accs, I dont know. (My Alt Soulfighter did with tt accs stage 10, tt 8ss, aransu 9, fused badge and awakend cosmic soul about 1.4 Million dps in dungeons, with shadowforge even 300k dps more)
And for ranges: You can just sidestep most of the attacks

Edited by RyVerseLy

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i been playing this game since 2016 and i cant even clear that event lol

 

the alt switching  from wl -to bd - gs - kfm now set me back alot i have a good soul tho but i can only pull like 1 mil burst  and down to 500k .

 

the thing is certain dps in this game cant be attain without heart and talisman which no one lvl ...heart they might till its leg then forget about it...

also when this game dps went out of control i stop going for pve gear and just focus my self pvp ..... only reason i have pve gear now. i need pve to get pvp gear.

 

its not new for me to skip event entirely ..those boring ones from past management team and longui and this.

 

closest i get to this event is free premium daily ones lol

 

but i did do some checkings and i think i can grab some stuff didnt really pay attention to it tho 

 

 

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Arohk   
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Miggy Miggs said:

 

 

the alt switching  from wl -to bd - gs - kfm now set me back alot i have a good soul tho but i can only pull like 1 mil burst  and down to 500k .

closest i get to this event is free premium daily ones lol

 

you do 500k, you need 440k for stage 3 to get your daily 10 coins, stop whining and lying that you don't get event currency because you cant deal 1mill dps.

 

Yes the Longui event was ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ because it locked out too many people from getting ANYTHING, but this time the only item are a pair a of wings, that's all you cry about really.

 

Also the event goes on for 4 weeks, go farm basin and upgrade your ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ , maybe you can kill stage 4 in three weeks before the event ends, put some work nto it if you want those wings.

 

 

Edited by Arohk

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vor 3 Stunden schrieb Arohk:

Yes the Longui event was ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ because it locked out too many people from getting ANYTHING, but this time the only item are a pair a of wings, that's all you cry about really.

First of all, i already got my Wings but anyway and sadly can only buy them once, so all my alts who are not capable of doing a booring as hell event wont get them even they are accoountbound :/
 

I remeber Times, when there was a survay  every few levels, while you level from 1 to 50. One of the survey questions was what players want most. As afar as i remember the options where: housing, a mount, wings

Now they added wings. but you can only get them for real money from Trove or for tons of Gold from the market.
They still didnt learnfrom the past event and again hide wings (in my opinion the cooles so far) again behind a DPS-Wall (and indirect behind a paywall).

So what do you expect? That people are happy and gratefull to NC-Soft? Everyone who cant get the Wings have the right to complain and should spam the Forum / Twitter / Facebook with their complains until NC-Soft realise they once again did crap.

Cosmetics / Outfits are the most valuable things in this game, even more valuabe then Materials / Gear.

 

And what we got here again? A plain boring and more than stupid event, hitting a Dummy for 2-3 minutes while brain-afk watching some anime.
Im still asking myself why the guy, comming up with such stupid ideas for events, wont be terminated without notice.

 

Also Events with DPS-Checks are more than unfair since there is a huge gap in DPS between classes and even the spec you play. A 3rd spec BM or Warden for sure need way less gear than an Ice-WL for example. So you might have a big advantage or disadvantage depending on the class and sepc you play. 

Also your DPS highly depends on your ping and with a GC-Weapon even more on Luck, since this weapon is the biggest trash i ever upgraded to.
My DPS varies up to 500k, my times killing Hae Mujin varies between 2.10 and up to 2:50 Minutes depending on my weaponprogs and i even had a TT-Boss 1 fight without any Weaponresets. My Weapon didnt prog higher than 3 or 4 stacks the whole fight.

 

OK, in the past high gear players alwas got close to nothing from events, thats true and i understand that high geared players also Complain there is nothing valuable for them. I just remember the events whe you get first legendary stage of soul / pet easily and people who already had these got nothing valuable out of this event. This could have been easily avoided by just let high gear players salvage these items for some materials they could use to upgrade their stuff.

 

Events should be doable by every player who at least reached level 60 or finished the story.

The Poharan event was a good one, everyone could contribute cause stats where equalized, but here the Whales start crying cause the need to do mech and couldnt just bran-afk burst the bosses down. 

 

We have a lot of "dead" dungeons that could be used for some quite interesting events.
An Event in Desolate Tomb with about 650-700AP, 90-120k HP and full mechanics, like it was when the dungeon was released, would be nice. 

Or Ebondrake Citadelle or Shattered Masts or...

 

That would be an interesting event, but not this braindead "Lets burst down a 180Mio dummy with an low enrage timer"

Honestly, in Korea i wouldnt even bother to kill a 600+Mio dummy in 5 or 6 minutes  (not even for the wings)  even i would have the gear, cause its plain booring as hell to hit a dummy and sidestep or iframe here and there..,.

 

There are only 2 reasons to add events like this

1. try forcing people to cash and buy stuff to upgrade their gear

2. no ideas or motivation to add good events and add some random crap just to have something added.

 

 

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Garlend   

I've been playing this game since NA release and can not beat the 4th stage of the event. I even upgraded my weapon to SF stage 6 (highest I could get). Still I can not get past 20% even with buffs. 

 

Sad that players have to go through this not being able to do the full event. This game is dying faster with events like this. Already heard quite a few quit and moving on. I'd be gone already if it wasn't f2p.

 

BTW, Doing over 1 mill dps is whale don't be a :poop: and pretend otherwise.

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Posted (edited)

@Garlend I'm gonna quote myself:

vor 13 Stunden schrieb RyVerseLy:

My Alt Soulfighter did with tt accs stage 10, tt 8ss, aransu 9, fused badge and awakend cosmic soul about 1.4 Million dps in dungeons, with shadowforge even 300k dps more

Btw with octa gems and without sb/bb, so how in the universe this is whale? And SF don't do op dmg. Furthermore shadowforge is only on a few classes strong, on most classes the weapon is just bad, so if you are not playing a Destro (earth I believe), Sum (wind I believe) or Ice SF of course you don't do dmg.

And if you and some others play since release, why you didn't searched for a guild and ran raids? tt was released like one year ago.

Edited by RyVerseLy

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Posted (edited)

VT is what 2 years old at this point? So yea I guess anyone with full VT gear at this point is p2w whale according to these kids... Meanwhile my raven 3 fire kfm and fire fm are getting 5 free vials each out of this event to send to my main... Dam that pay to win raven gear...

 

As someone who regularly tanks on raven 3 FM in F8 since a9 players with no idea how to play there class struggle to hold 200k somehow, not suprised to see all these people crying p2w event...

Edited by Bobthemonk

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Uldrum   
2 hours ago, Garlend said:

I've been playing this game since NA release and can not beat the 4th stage of the event. I even upgraded my weapon to SF stage 6 (highest I could get). Still I can not get past 20% even with buffs. 

 

Sad that players have to go through this not being able to do the full event. This game is dying faster with events like this. Already heard quite a few quit and moving on. I'd be gone already if it wasn't f2p.

 

BTW, Doing over 1 mill dps is whale don't be a :poop: and pretend otherwise.

I'm drowning in materials just from doing Daily & Weekly challange on 5 characters and sometimes HM 8 train on main (Not every day) 

What kind of daily activities do you do in this came if you only gotten to shadowforge 6.. since launch?

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Garlend   
22 minutes ago, Uldrum said:

I'm drowning in materials just from doing Daily & Weekly challange on 5 characters and sometimes HM 8 train on main (Not every day) 

What kind of daily activities do you do in this came if you only gotten to shadowforge 6.. since launch?

Well... I've only been doing weekly and DC almost everyday when I can. I don't do raids anymore cause it is not worth the time. So I'm stuck with BT and VT gear.

 

Wait... what?? you do it on 5 characters. All I can do is my main an 1 alt. After that I don't have time and right now I'm trying not to burn out on this game.

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