PetPuggi

Pay2win event round 2, time for another break

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Luca094   
Posted (edited)
vor 23 Minuten schrieb Shekinah:

 

Like I said if you want to have a reward for your gear or how much effort you put into your class there are hard modes, challenge modes, raids (now also with achievements in ET) and pvp ladders. Those also come with exclusive titles or costume. Which is all fine for me. So why do you also want those rewards in events? Why not let everyone experience the events completly? Why do you want more?

 

I didn't say I WANT more. And I can somewhat understand where your and other ppl's frustration comes from, at least partially, don't get me wrong.
I just think that there's nothing wrong in making an event that is partially more challanging than 99% of ALL the other events. Especially since this is happening for the 2nd time now in dozens of events we had so far and is not a constant way events are made. So in my opinion as someone who enjoyed it I don't see anything wrong with this concept. 
Then is the question about the rewards and as I said: There is no point in implementing a part of an event that requires you to invest more time and effort into it if it's not worth it bc you don't get anything out of it (that wasn't tied to me saying I have more gear so I want more, it would simply be an illogical thing to do).
That's why I asked what ppl would consider a "fair" reward for it and as I said, I doubt ppl would be satisfied if one would get more oils for this extra effort, they would generally be unhappy if you got any valuable items out of it and they're obviously also unhappy with cosmetics.

By your definition "an event is sth temporary everyone should be able to participate in", Trove can also be considered as an event which def. not everyone can take part in, weird enough I don't see any posts "Give everyone 20 free Trove keys a day bc not everyone can participate in Trove".
The Trove before the last one for example (I think ?) had this amazing Butterfly outfit. I'm not a cosmetic maniac or collector but this is one of the very few items I desperately want. Unfortunately I was so broke during that Trove that I couldn't even afford premium. Do I open an entire topic now bc in this outfit was "Trove (event) exclusive" in which I couldn't participate? No. It's just a cosmetic in a game, nothing to make a fuss about like other ppl do who go even as far as saying "If they make a second event like this, I'll quit the game". I rly want that outfit and I hope NC makes it available somehow someday with other options (which they prolly will with rng chests but still), but if not, my life goes on and I won't dedicate an entire thread to it.

Edited by Luca094

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Puril   
On 7/15/2019 at 1:55 PM, Baskerville said:

Hi all,

I think it's time to cool down a bit. Please always ask, we are happy to answer your questions, but do not draw the wrong conclusions based on other regions' statistics. You cannot compare the South Korean version with ours. I was referring to the HP of Sacred Longgui Stage 4 in comparison to Admy Hae Mujin, which is roughly 22% lower:

 

e3uLCVR.png

 

As Cyan noted before, we are really looking forward to showing you what awaits you at the event on the Roots of Malice patch preview live stream later this week, so make sure to tune in.

Thank you.

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Shekinah   
34 minutes ago, Luca094 said:

I didn't say I WANT more. And I can somewhat understand where your and other ppl's frustration comes from, at least partially, don't get me wrong.
I just think that there's nothing wrong in making an event that is partially more challanging than 99% of ALL the other events. Especially since this is happening for the 2nd time now in dozens of events we had so far and is not a constant way events are made. So in my opinion as someone who enjoyed it I don't see anything wrong with this concept. 
Then is the question about the rewards and as I said: There is no point in implementing a part of an event that requires you to invest more time and effort into it if it's not worth it bc you don't get anything out of it (that wasn't tied to me saying I have more gear so I want more, it would simply be an illogical thing to do).
That's why I asked what ppl would consider a "fair" reward for it and as I said, I doubt ppl would be satisfied if one would get more oils for this extra effort, they would generally be unhappy if you got any valuable items out of it and they're obviously also unhappy with cosmetics.

By your definition "an event is sth temporary everyone should be able to participate in", Trove can also be considered as an event which def. not everyone can take part in, weird enough I don't see any posts "Give everyone 20 free Trove keys a day bc not everyone can participate in Trove".
The Trove before the last one for example (I think ?) had this amazing Butterfly outfit. I'm not a cosmetic maniac or collector but this is one of the very few items I desperately want. Unfortunately I was so broke during that Trove that I couldn't even afford premium. Do I open an entire topic now bc in this outfit was "Trove (event) exclusive" in which I couldn't participate? No. It's just a cosmetic in a game, nothing to make a fuss about like other ppl do who go even as far as saying "If they make a second event like this, I'll quit the game". I rly want that outfit and I hope NC makes it available somehow someday with other options (which they prolly will with rng chests but still), but if not, my life goes on and I won't dedicate an entire thread to it.

The reason I asked about "more" was because you haven't answered this question so far. Nothing about whether you don't care about those modes or think the rewards there are too low.

Yes we only had such an event just once. But another one, though being more adjusted to our region I'd say, is on the way. I think there is a fear that more events like those will be coming in the future. Events that will make people feel like being left behind. Not just being unable to play the highest raid, having the newest item but also being excluded from events. There are many reasons why people may be behind the leading high gear players. But no one wants to constantly being told: "You're last in line." I hope you get what I mean by that exaggeration. Events may be the one thing could be too much for players to handle and thus leave the game. No one can want that.

 

For me it's fair if a cosmetic costs like 1 or even 2 oils for example. So that one has to think about which is of higher value for yourself. If someone wants more stuff from an event they have to spend more effort and time into it to collect more event coins.

 

Trove and rng boxes are cash events for me. You don't participate in those events by playing the game but by spending money. For me those are totally different things so I won't compare them. I also didn't get trove stuff that I would have loved for my character. Something we have in common is that I also hope that stuff comes back and maybe directly in F10.

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Luca094   
Posted (edited)

@ShekinaExactly, we had this event once so far and it's been said multiple times that they're trying this concept out for now and adjust it. Which they did with the upcoming one And the last turtle event was when? 3 monts ago? 4? so the big majority of the events is still doable with any gear on any char, no reason to freak out.
Yes, I do understand this concern. But ppl tend to freak out about stuff which isn't even confirmed in any way yet. Ppl were already speculating and calculating about what Dps one would need (like an avarage of 2,6m or some bs), totally losing their ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ about sth that happened in korea without ANY information whatsoever about what it will look like in our region. On top of that the topics were never structured in a reasonable way like you present it for example, saying calmly "I dislike this and this about the event for xy reason. My suggestion would be to do this and that"
 

vor einer Stunde schrieb Shekinah:

 

 

For me it's fair if a cosmetic costs like 1 or even 2 oils for example. So that one has to think about which is of higher value for yourself. If someone wants more stuff from an event they have to spend more effort and time into it to collect more event coins.

 

Like this for example.
No, most ppl are like "I didnt get the wings. The event is completely ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤. Remove it/nerf it to the ground, mimimi cry cry cry" without even remotely considering that there are also ppl who enjoyed this kind of change and thus maybe make SUGGESTIONS about changes that might satisfy both sides and that is simply annoying and babyrage imo.

I don't consider Trove an event either, it was just an example based on your statement "event = sth temporary" and about the fact that not everyone gets everything, a bit exaggerated, true, but you get my point^^

Edited by Luca094

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On 7/15/2019 at 5:55 AM, Baskerville said:

Hi all,

I think it's time to cool down a bit. Please always ask, we are happy to answer your questions, but do not draw the wrong conclusions based on other regions' statistics. You cannot compare the South Korean version with ours. I was referring to the HP of Sacred Longgui Stage 4 in comparison to Admy Hae Mujin, which is roughly 22% lower:

 

e3uLCVR.png

 

As Cyan noted before, we are really looking forward to showing you what awaits you at the event on the Roots of Malice patch preview live stream later this week, so make sure to tune in.

Here's the issue.

The boss being dropped to 184 mill is great, grand, and amazing, and I'm 100% thankful for not having to cry over 600+ mill hp in a solo event dungeon, but having an enrage timer of 3 mins bars a chunk of people from getting a fraction of enjoyment from this event, and it did the same for turtle.

I can understand high hp and lower enrage for a party instance, but solo?

3 mins sustaining over 1 mill dps?

Keep the KR enrage timer of 6 mins and you easily drop the needed dps to a bit above 500k, which opens the accessibility just enough to please most of the playerbase and still let the whales enjoy their big dips ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Noobis   
2 hours ago, Murderbirb said:

Here's the issue.

The boss being dropped to 184 mill is great, grand, and amazing, and I'm 100% thankful for not having to cry over 600+ mill hp in a solo event dungeon, but having an enrage timer of 3 mins bars a chunk of people from getting a fraction of enjoyment from this event, and it did the same for turtle.

I can understand high hp and lower enrage for a party instance, but solo?

3 mins sustaining over 1 mill dps?

Keep the KR enrage timer of 6 mins and you easily drop the needed dps to a bit above 500k, which opens the accessibility just enough to please most of the playerbase and still let the whales enjoy their big dips ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

what?>! you are kidding right? go gear up holy ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ing ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ stop begging to have ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ for 500k. 500k is NOTHING anymore. omg im getting so tilted by the way you people come on here and cry. no wonder we cant have nice things on BNS NA

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Sayahell   

let the GM do this event with  this real gear and show  in life stream what happen . but i know the answer ! They ignore use and go Msp or go Cold store .... 

 

other GM goes in new Event -raids etc show ppl how  y can play it ,  But Finaly problems not value  to answer 

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55 minutes ago, Noobis said:

what?>! you are kidding right? go gear up holy ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ing ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ stop begging to have ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ for 500k. 500k is NOTHING anymore. omg im getting so tilted by the way you people come on here and cry. no wonder we cant have nice things on BNS NA

My dude, slow your roll about "you people".

I can easily sustain over 500k, so if you think I'm begging, you are right out of your mind.

 

If anything, I'm sorry you're this triggered over a simple suggestion lol

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vor 10 Stunden schrieb Murderbirb:

Here's the issue.

The boss being dropped to 184 mill is great, grand, and amazing, and I'm 100% thankful for not having to cry over 600+ mill hp in a solo event dungeon, but having an enrage timer of 3 mins bars a chunk of people from getting a fraction of enjoyment from this event, and it did the same for turtle.

I can understand high hp and lower enrage for a party instance, but solo?

3 mins sustaining over 1 mill dps?

Keep the KR enrage timer of 6 mins and you easily drop the needed dps to a bit above 500k, which opens the accessibility just enough to please most of the playerbase and still let the whales enjoy their big dips ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I get your point but it is supposed to be an event for mains and 500K is DPS you can expect from an alt since it needs nearly nothing to get to this DPS.

On the other hand i still agree with you that 1 Million is a bit to much (even tho its way less than i expected) i would love to see the requirements droped to 650K while doing mech so people who parse like 800K can participate but 500K is like playing on an alt and this event is clearly not intendet to be for alts.

 

So what about gearing up a bit ? if you like PVP you can easyli earn houndrets of gold a day the soulstones are at a high like never before but if you dont like PVP well do whatever PVE players do to get money. (Seriously i have no idea where you farm like a lot of gold ingame without PVP most of my Gold comes from Soul stones and Moonstones. )

 

I parsed yesterday and i am doing 1.9 Million just to tell everybody who thinks i would whine cause i would do low DPS in advance.

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Grimoir   
50 minutes ago, ImoutoMaster said:

On the other hand i still agree with you that 1 Million is a bit to much (even tho its way less than i expected) i would love to see the requirements droped to 650K while doing mech so people who parse like 800K can participate but 500K is like playing on an alt and this event is clearly not intendet to be for alts.

I honestly do not think 1 m dps is too much, it just means its for people that maxed their accessories, because having stage 1-3 BT accsessories and not upgraded others (like all alts run around with), even with the event weapon they will not be keeping up 1 mil dps, which is very good imo

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11 hours ago, Noobis said:

what?>! you are kidding right? go gear up holy ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ing ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ stop begging to have ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ for 500k. 500k is NOTHING anymore. omg im getting so tilted by the way you people come on here and cry. no wonder we cant have nice things on BNS NA

2GrpKto.png

Please stay kind.

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LizZard   
13 hours ago, Noobis said:

what?>! you are kidding right? go gear up holy ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ing ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ stop begging to have ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ for 500k. 500k is NOTHING anymore. omg im getting so tilted by the way you people come on here and cry. no wonder we cant have nice things on BNS NA

Now you feel superior because you are doing more than 500k and don't allow people come and talk(cry by what u said). I can see how these eliests ruined this game.

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Arohk   
1 hour ago, LizZard said:

Now you feel superior because you are doing more than 500k and don't allow people come and talk(cry by what u said). I can see how these eliests ruined this game.

even my alts can do 500k and i barely invested much time into their gear, raven acc, legendary badges, V+3 TT soul shields...

unless you're a new player 1 million dps shouldn't that difficult to reach at this point.

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Rhiakath   

Does it even matter anymore, if stage 4 doesn't drop anything, and only allows purchase of cosmetics?

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Grimoir   
5 minutes ago, Rhiakath said:

Does it even matter anymore, if stage 4 doesn't drop anything, and only allows purchase of cosmetics?

You would be amazed about what things players here complain about.....dont be shocked lol

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I'm not sure I understand the intent of the temporary weapon being locked behind a (10 final kill) achievement.  Is it to troll in 6's for 2 hours?  Tower of infinity climbing run?  Since you killed it 10 times already, seems unnecessary for the event instance.

 

 

Temporary weapons like this, would be best in my opinion only usable inside the event instance.

 

 

Don't know  the stats of the weapon, and what classes can utilize it better/worse than existing weapons.

 

Please feel free to correct me if I have any specifics misunderstood.

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Grimoir   
1 hour ago, ElectricPotato said:

Temporary weapons like this, would be best in my opinion only usable inside the event instance.

Totally agree

 

1 hour ago, ElectricPotato said:

Don't know  the stats of the weapon, and what classes can utilize it better/worse than existing weapons.

 

Please feel free to correct me if I have any specifics misunderstood.

From what i heard the weapon is equivalent to Thornbreaker stage 6.

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Puril   
12 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

Totally agree

 

From what i heard the weapon is equivalent to Thornbreaker stage 6.

if thats true then it would be waay too OP...even alts can ez clear it.

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2 minutes ago, Puril said:

if thats true then it would be waay too OP...even alts can ez clear it.

In the event article, its listed as "Limited to one purchase per account per day."

 

More importantly,  it has the asterisk as being achievement locked.  So after xx kills on that one character, you could kill it easier for 2hrs for that one character per day for the 4/4 dual currency.

 

A final factor to consider is the temp weapon from the Ring of Reckoning event, which had similiar base stats to gc, but the stack effect was radically different, with significantly  fewer/longer weapon resets, making it somewhat ineffective for some classes (other classes  that rely less on resets were able to use it advangtageously) with mid tier weapons.  Perhaps the livestream will demonstrate the temp weapon in action.

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PetPuggi   
Posted (edited)
On 15/07/2019 at 6:55 AM, Baskerville said:

Hi all,

I think it's time to cool down a bit. Please always ask, we are happy to answer your questions, but do not draw the wrong conclusions based on other regions' statistics. You cannot compare the South Korean version with ours. I was referring to the HP of Sacred Longgui Stage 4 in comparison to Admy Hae Mujin, which is roughly 22% lower:

 

e3uLCVR.png

 

As Cyan noted before, we are really looking forward to showing you what awaits you at the event on the Roots of Malice patch preview live stream later this week, so make sure to tune in.

It's great you nerfed it for NA, but let's do some math here, as this is still more gear requirement than turtle event.

184mil / 180 sec = 1mil dps requirement. But this boss is NOT a stationary training dummy like turtle. Literally every other attack CC's you, so you're forced to constantly iframe, run around or block. This dramatically reduces your F12 parse dps. I'd say you're looking at 60-70% of your F12 parse, so people still need roughly 1.5mil dps requirement to beat this thing.

What do you need to get 1.5mil dps? You're looking at GC9, true tiger soul/early stages of new endtier soul, TT8 with good rolls, and full tri gems. Again, this is not something people can achieve "just by working hard", you actually need to have played for 1-2 years to get this, or a bit shorter if you have no life and play like 8 hours a day.

 

TLDR: event has pretty much the same amount of pay2win-ness as turtle event. Higher dps requirement (1.5mil compared to 1.2mil for turtle) but taken into consideration "people had 2-3 more months to gear up from turtle event" so some white knights might argue it's roughly the same amount of wallet check.

Edited by PetPuggi

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Grimoir   
2 minutes ago, PetPuggi said:

It's great you nerfed it for NA, but let's do some math here, as this is still more gear requirement than turtle event.

184mil / 180 sec = 1mil dps requirement. But this boss is NOT a stationary training dummy like turtle. Literally every other attack CC's you, so you're forced to constantly iframe, run around or block. This dramatically reduces your F12 parse dps. I'd say you're looking at 60-70% of your F12 parse, so people still need roughly 1.5mil dps requirement to beat this thing.

What do you need to get 1.5mil dps? You're looking at GC9, true tiger soul/early stages of new endtier soul, TT8 with good rolls, and full tri gems. Again, this is not something people can achieve "just by working hard", you actually need to have played for 1-2 years to get this, or a bit shorter if you have no life and play like 8 hours a day.

 

TLDR: event has pretty much the same amount of pay2win-ness as turtle event. Higher dps requirement (1.5mil) but taken into consideration "people had 2-3 more months to gear up from turtle event".

1. DPS requirement for turtle was 2 mil

2. you dont need to clear stage 4 Hae Mujin for the rewards, you just need up to stage 3, stage 4 only gives you cosmetics

3. you dont need GC weapon, maxed soul, or even TT8 and tri gems to do 1,5m, and i know plenty players with less that parse 1,3-1,6m.

 

The 1 mil dps requirement for stage 4 is more than fine.

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vor 18 Stunden schrieb Grimoir:

1. DPS requirement for turtle was 2 mil

Wrong DPS requirement for clearing it was about 1.3M. For the time run you need about 2M

vor 18 Stunden schrieb Grimoir:

2. you dont need to clear stage 4 Hae Mujin for the rewards, you just need up to stage 3, stage 4 only gives you cosmetics

You know that for most players cosmetics are the "true endgear" and more importent than other stuff?

 

vor 18 Stunden schrieb Grimoir:

3. you dont need GC weapon, maxed soul, or even TT8 and tri gems to do 1,5m, and i know plenty players with less that parse 1,3-1,6m.

it highly depends on your class. Some classes need way lower gear than other classes to deal same DPS. When you play the wrong class, you are screewed.
Let alone look at a 3rd spec BM and the enormous dps. even your own spec can make a huge different (Shadow / Ice WL, Wind / Earth Sum for example and so on)

Also GC weapon dmg highly depends on rng progs. My damage can differ up to 500k in same dungeon depending on my weaponprogs.

I already had fights in BC/ WC where i didnt get above 3 stacks on my GC-Weapon during the whole fight.
 

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vor 19 Stunden schrieb PetPuggi:

What do you need to get 1.5mil dps? You're looking at GC9, true tiger soul/early stages of new endtier soul, TT8 with good rolls, and full tri gems.

I have less gear and i do 1.9 Million in parse.

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Grimoir   
2 hours ago, Merlin DE said:

You know that for most players cosmetics are the "true endgear" and more importent than other stuff?

I know, but then they need to make sure they have the gear for it :P

 

2 hours ago, Merlin DE said:

Wrong DPS requirement for clearing it was about 1.3M. For the time run you need about 2M

We are talking about stage 4.

 

2 hours ago, Merlin DE said:

it highly depends on your class. Some classes need way lower gear than other classes to deal same DPS. When you play the wrong class, you are screewed.
Let alone look at a 3rd spec BM and the enormous dps. even your own spec can make a huge different (Shadow / Ice WL, Wind / Earth Sum for example and so on)

Also GC weapon dmg highly depends on rng progs. My damage can differ up to 500k in same dungeon depending on my weaponprogs.

I already had fights in BC/ WC where i didnt get above 3 stacks on my GC-Weapon during the whole fight.

Yes, but i am leaving 3rd spec's out, and yes i know it can depend on class etc...but fact is you dont need what he listed to do that much dps, especially without a GC weapon.

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Noxi   

I have to agree that its made for people who invested alot (not time), i instantly fell in love with the black wings, but i don't understand that the supportive 2 hour weapon is locked behind 10 wins of stage 4 boss, cause people who are at the average 1,6 to 1,8k ap cannot win against the fourth stage :<, if i stand still, doing nothing then damage i get my 700k+, but whith even some fps drops and the mech i fall down to 300 to 400k. and doing finally only 40% damage on Admy. [Warlock, Scourge, mainly solo playing]

at first i thought u can get the 2hour weapon without achievement.. but now i am not even sure if it would be possible with that weapon, all the other equip u get while fighting the other stages, i already have, or better... i'm disappointed, bye bye black wings ._. 

 

will skip this event too, cause it's tiring and i need a break between all these time consuming events

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