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NekoNoKishi

Unity

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Grimoir   

Just to add: you cna buy CS / HM resets with Ncoin, HM coin and at the cold storage merchant. so if you are just going for unity....its not money gated.

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On 2019-07-07 at 7:05 PM, NekoNoKishi said:

 

You say it as if i have an ego problem. 

Some people like myself are competitive. And since they implement a pay2win item that give about 10-20% more dps to whale player i can no longer play this game competitively and it is driving me out of the game for another game where i can compete with other in a sane environnement and not be excluded from max gear because i dont pay to win. 

 

I play destroyer, reaper destroyer. I can never play this game competitive because my class is bad for dps in the current state of the game and when put in a grp with high geared BM, Warden or summoner I will never be able to keep up..

So unless you play BM, summoner or warden, Why even try to keep up with other people? as you will always lose out to those 3 classes.

 

 

Edited by Draknalor

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Le 11/07/2019 à 21:28, Draknalor a dit :

I play destroyer, reaper destroyer. I can never play this game competitive because my class is bad for dps in the current state of the game and when put in a grp with high geared BM, Warden or summoner I will never be able to keep up..

So unless you play BM, summoner or warden, Why even try to keep up with other people? as you will always lose out to those 3 classes.

 

 

By competition, i talk about F11. You may have missed the fact that it is class-specific and give huge rewards every season. It was possible to compete if you farm enough but now there are peoples with maxed unity stone  and the rest. Also, please note that the topic is not about class balance. 

 

@ other peoples

Soul was called pay2win by majority of the community and is still called pay2win by most even now that you can farm evolved stone in MSP. Unity stone is worse in so many way (rng, rarity, time gated, etc) and people pretend it is not pay2win ? its a joke ? are you guys trolling ? do you guys ever go to reddit or discord ? do you even play the game ?  

 

There is NOBODY with it maxxed and its been release about 3 monthes ago ! in 1 year there will still be no free to play players with it (except liars) and you guys pretend it is achievable? 

They need to remove the rng parts. For example with progression bar. You would break useless stones to make fragments (like you do with gem powder) and improve them with fragments.

They need to make orbs and frozen feather farmable. For example, they could replace frozen feather with evolved stones. CS+HM would drop evolved stones which will also help peoples with soul and heart.

 

Edited by NekoNoKishi

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Grimoir   
2 hours ago, NekoNoKishi said:

There is NOBODY with it maxxed and its been release about 3 monthes ago ! in 1 year there will still be no free to play players with it (except liars) and you guys pretend it is achievable? 

there actually are people with it maxed...and a lot of people with close to 1000 points in it.....more than half of them dont even spoend money on the game.

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Xzard   

I completely agree with you @NekoNoKishi, you can be the most crazy farmer in the entire game, and you will have no chance to progress in unity stones compared to someone who spends tons of money.
This system may work in KR, but on this server people hate RNG walls, and this is the main problem for me, is RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG, you can save 1 month of feathers and boxes and may end with nothing and this feeling of zero progress after X amount of time invested is what makes this the worst system so far.
They must remove the RNG on this, one solution for this is just buy purple/leg box directly on CS NPC, for example 50 feathers = purple box, 500 feathers = 1 leg box, and even then it will take a lot of time, but you will be able to MAKE PROGRESS.

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Il y a 2 heures, Grimoir a dit :

there actually are people with it maxed...and a lot of people with close to 1000 points in it.....more than half of them dont even spoend money on the game.

LIES. 

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Il y a 2 heures, Xzard a dit :

I completely agree with you @NekoNoKishi, you can be the most crazy farmer in the entire game, and you will have no chance to progress in unity stones compared to someone who spends tons of money.
This system may work in KR, but on this server people hate RNG walls, and this is the main problem for me, is RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG, you can save 1 month of feathers and boxes and may end with nothing and this feeling of zero progress after X amount of time invested is what makes this the worst system so far.
They must remove the RNG on this, one solution for this is just buy purple/leg box directly on CS NPC, for example 50 feathers = purple box, 500 feathers = 1 leg box, and even then it will take a lot of time, but you will be able to MAKE PROGRESS.

Thx at least some peoples here are not spreading lies. 

It is indeed not just a pay wall but a RNG pay wall on top of rng ...

 

Edited by NekoNoKishi

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I guess ncsoft employees prefer this topic to root while they take profits. 
 

This guy spent like 55K keys, he only got 4 extra legendary? and there are many more topic like that on reddit and discord but community managers and ncsoft employees prefer to ignore us.

It is the only way to max it. 20-50K keys depending on luck ... and if one dont understand how gamebreaking it is one should go back to school. 

without trove/boxes it takes at the very least 1year if lucky and probably 2 to 5 years if average luck.

i'm still bemused by the sophistry about it being pay 2 progress while it is one heavy example of pay 2 win mechanic. 
 

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Well i did HM / CS every day since Unity system was introduced. I have wasted tonns of shimmering stones (Left Side) to try transmute them into a violet shiny (right side, not shure how they are called in english) but never had a successfully try. They all failed.
I just got one from the Daily Box you get when you have finisched 5 daily quests, thats all.

With that bad RNG, i dont think i will ever get a legendary.

So Yeah, Good job on bad RNG NC-Soft but ill guess you know whales will just swipe their credit card so why care about casual players?
 

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Ylkrad   

I have 3 legendary stones- 1 from trove and 2 from crafting, the rest are heroics- it didn't take much for me to craft legendry's but I can see the frustration: first off, get your heroic tiers first before worrying about a legendary- purples are really good and you'll be ahead of most people, two is this game is personal progression, sorry if you have a complex or impulse to be the very best- pve is just pve, please enjoy what you have and what you can do now.

My method for making legendries is 2 heroic (purples) with some blues ( did 1-6 blues) and got ok luck, but in 4 tries made 2 is fine ( if you fail you get your heroic stone back, so you net lose some blues and a purple- so its not too punishing).

I heard there was a sheet for making heroics or legendries, but I don't know where that is, heard some people trying 2~5~7 at a time to make heroics, not to mention weekly challenge is going to be adding a stone box- along with daily, so you get a bit more chances per day- but I will say this, you want to get to tier 1 unity set effect for crit damage/ elemental damage- that's a big enough boost to be happy about and just passively work on legendries or min maxing good heroic's.

But seriously, trove and some rng boxes or events should offer a currency to buy some boxes for free or easier, 30-50k is absurd but I believe it. If you do get a legendary from a box for your skill multiplier, you can swap by crafting with it to merge into a different stone type- so the guy probably did it that way.

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il y a 6 minutes, Ylkrad a dit :

I have 3 legendary stones- 1 from trove and 2 from crafting, the rest are heroics- it didn't take much for me to craft legendry's but I can see the frustration: first off, get your heroic tiers first before worrying about a legendary- purples are really good and you'll be ahead of most people, two is this game is personal progression, sorry if you have a complex or impulse to be the very best- pve is just pve, please enjoy what you have and what you can do now.

My method for making legendries is 2 heroic (purples) with some blues ( did 1-6 blues) and got ok luck, but in 4 tries made 2 is fine ( if you fail you get your heroic stone back, so you net lose some blues and a purple- so its not too punishing).

I heard there was a sheet for making heroics or legendries, but I don't know where that is, heard some people trying 2~5~7 at a time to make heroics, not to mention weekly challenge is going to be adding a stone box- along with daily, so you get a bit more chances per day- but I will say this, you want to get to tier 1 unity set effect for crit damage/ elemental damage- that's a big enough boost to be happy about and just passively work on legendries or min maxing good heroic's.

But seriously, trove and some rng boxes or events should offer a currency to buy some boxes for free or easier, 30-50k is absurd but I believe it. If you do get a legendary from a box for your skill multiplier, you can swap by crafting with it to merge into a different stone type- so the guy probably did it that way.

We perfectly know how to upgrade our unity, and i myself have shared spreadsheet with over 2000+ fusions from clan and friends and growing

i think you are wrong about the game. Maybe YOU play it for personnal progression but then you miss on F11 rewards which are huge. and those reward are now locked to pay2win players since it is impossible to beat pay2win player because of unity stones locked being a pay2win rng wall. 

Also for your information if you want to reroll a legendary, you need 2 of them for a rng chance. 

Edited by NekoNoKishi

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Ylkrad   

what area's lock you out of pay 2 win walls? mao, toi and 6's( which even ageinst whales i'm top 30 or better in mao which all I care about remotely). the rest is points and personal skill/ping. Unity does not work in 1v1 and 3v3 or shackled. challenge mode is more on mechs than damage, since a fast kill time with low mech is not a great score, but it can make it shorter thus easier- that's about it. How many people actually try challenge mode tbh?

The game is progression, some like the cash element, some like the grind- but many have to grind, I don't like it this grindy, but the game is what it is... and i'm sorry. Don't be silent with the system, be vocal and keep complaining- ncsoft has to cave in someday.

Edited by Ylkrad
adding stuff.

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il y a 2 minutes, Ylkrad a dit :

what area's lock you out of pay 2 win walls? mao, toi and 6's( which even ageinst whales i'm top 30 or better in mao which all I care about remotely). the rest is points and personal skill/ping. Unity does not work in 1v1 and 3v3 or shackled. challenge mode is more on mechs than damage, since a fast kill time with low mech is not a great score, but it can make it shorter thus easier- that's about it. How many people actually try challenge mode tbh?

The game is progression, some like the cash element, some like the grind- but many have to grind, I don't like it this grindy, but the game is what it is... and i'm sorry. Don't be silent with the system, be vocal and keep complaining- ncsoft has to cave in someday.

All of them except 1v1 and 3v3 . I was top1 europe in my class on master hong and i can not even get close to top 5 on mao with near full ET gear (i only missing 678 soulshield which i'll get very soon). And im not really free2play since i buy premium and spend 500-1000 key every trove.... 

This is , this one you can NOT grind, its a paywall + rng + time gated ... i have more chance to win at national loterry then having a streak of luck and get max legendaries

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Ylkrad   

except the lottery costs more money- has no return, has no free way to play and is not eventually guaranteed.

You don't need a streak of luck, you just need enough chances to get what you want (yes a form of luck but at least more rigged in your favor than a lottery which is designed to have worse odds than getting hit by lightning twice).

At worst, the unity system is at worst a bad crit rate to something close to 50/50 depending what you toss in.

I'll take my ncsoft rng over the lottery tbh.

If this game is stressing you out this much, over a rng mechanic- maybe you should not play this game? if your not having fun, why play? that's why I say play to have fun- though everyone's definition of fun is different, but choose wisely. 

Edited by Ylkrad
added stuff

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Ylkrad   

https://imgur.com/LZHidgx 

it'll give some people an idea of how much to toss in, all I can say is hope they add more sources to get purple boxes so people can convert to legendaries or something, or just more ways to get blues at least or adjust rates a little. I am with you- unity is tough, but should be more accessible to casual or hardcore players who actually put time into grinding out feathers.

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il y a 21 minutes, Ylkrad a dit :

except the lottery costs more money- has no return, has no free way to play and is not eventually guaranteed.

You don't need a streak of luck, you just need enough chances to get what you want (yes a form of luck but at least more rigged in your favor than a lottery which is designed to have worse odds than getting hit by lightning twice).

national lottery is 2€ in here. where do you live for 2€ to be expensive ? 

You need a streak of luck,  2 per 2 is under 10% chance 8per8 is 45-55% chance. There is no way to garanty 100% chance to get NEXT stage.

 

Let's say u go the 2 per 2 route with optimistic 10% chance (it more like 8%).
On average, you need 11 blue stone for a purple (9 fail x (2 stone consumed - 1 blue stone back) + 1 sucess x 2 stone consumed)
Then again you need on average 11 purple for a legendary. Thats 121 blue stones total on average.

121 RADIANCE  stones x 15  = 1815 radiance stones (i have a headacke and urge to vomit when i see that number).

About ascension stone, its pure gamble, you need to luck out a purple box (never seen one in cs/hm merchant and only 1 in daily reward). and then you need to luck out a legendary. 

I let you calculate the time a free2play player need for that given the fact you can only get about 2 to 3 blue stone a day (hint : years).

Please, for god sake stop saying that something can be bought INSTANTLY but takes at least YEARS for free players to be pay 2 progress, it is not. It is the most vicious example of pay2win. 

What do you need to stop pretending it is achievable? 10 years? 20 years? 50 years? 

Not to mention, there is no way to garantie the evolution from blue to purple and then legendary. For example, this trove i spent 1210 keys (a mix of ncoin key + hmcoin key) and my unity stone did not evolve a inch , no change, nada, zero. And if i try more my odd did not improve.... all the effort and money ive put did vanish forever. 
 

il y a 9 minutes, Ylkrad a dit :

https://imgur.com/LZHidgx 

it'll give some people an idea of how much to toss in, all I can say is hope they add more sources to get purple boxes so people can convert to legendaries or something, or just more ways to get blues at least or adjust rates a little. I am with you- unity is tough, but should be more accessible to casual or hardcore players who actually put time into grinding out feathers.



It isn't just tough, it is impossible to get within reasonable time. By the time somebody get close to current max we will already get the next tier of stones ! Thats crazy. 

Its been over 3 month and you said it yourself , you only have 3 of them. Thats 1 per month and we need 18 of them ... 

Yes we need more blue, much more blue. They need to at least remove the time limitation on it, either make cs/hm repeatable or chance the currency to something we can farm (for example evolved stone or convert the shitload crystals one can get when farming). 


 

Edited by NekoNoKishi

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Ylkrad   

I don't do the 2 stone method on blues- I actually do a mix of 5-7 ( and that's wasteing) and for making legendry's, I use 2 purples and the rest blues- I don't have to lie cause im working on my 4th stone passively. if you do want more stones, try hard mode dungeons or anything higher than SSM- you can catch some boxes up for grabs- or try hard mode, been seeing better drops in hard mode as well. All in all, i'm just saying, be optimistic, keep trying but I also sympathize with you. it sucks but you can get a lot done. 

our lottery is 1-2$, where I work I get about 13.50$ and should be 15$ by new years, $17 or 18 the following. The actual lottery is a scam, in game rng is a lot less of a scam, but it's still unfair in general.

like I said, play this game to have fun and progress your way, don't argue with someone who only saw this thread and just wanted to give my perspective. All I can say is sorry, try to make the most of everything, be happy or move on-- it's a tough choice :(

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il y a 32 minutes, Ylkrad a dit :

I don't do the 2 stone method on blues- I actually do a mix of 5-7 ( and that's wasteing) and for making legendry's, I use 2 purples and the rest blues- I don't have to lie cause im working on my 4th stone passively. if you do want more stones, try hard mode dungeons or anything higher than SSM- you can catch some boxes up for grabs- or try hard mode, been seeing better drops in hard mode as well. All in all, i'm just saying, be optimistic, keep trying but I also sympathize with you. it sucks but you can get a lot done. 

our lottery is 1-2$, where I work I get about 13.50$ and should be 15$ by new years, $17 or 18 the following. The actual lottery is a scam, in game rng is a lot less of a scam, but it's still unfair in general.

like I said, play this game to have fun and progress your way, don't argue with someone who only saw this thread and just wanted to give my perspective. All I can say is sorry, try to make the most of everything, be happy or move on-- it's a tough choice :(

On big number, 2 per 2 seems winner from the data collected but without having data from the game i can not be sure. There is no clear loss/win from doing other methods...but at least i am talking with a huge collaborative sample. But you can try the other method then are harmless. 

In europe, we have nationnal lottery 2€ for tens of millions  and european lottery for hundred millions. Not sure what you are talking about =).
 

I think you dont get my point. I play a game because it was ADVERTISED  as not pay2win :bnsp2w.png

 

That i would never have to face a paywall for anything. But i can not compete in many aspect of the game because i can not PAY for max unity which is clearly permanent stat & power increases that one can not get before the end of the current season hence loosing to pay2win players which get the hmcoin we can not get.

 

I could enjoy a long term upgrade, for example : 

- i enjoy farming my unity level which nobody can shortcut (yet). I would have liked a weekly limit or daily average instead of a daily limit but thats being picky. 

- i enjoy farming CM which is on how good you drive (altough there is a bonus if you kill it early) and psyche which is also about farming hard mode dungeon (which dont require max gear). And on this one we dont have psyche in trove (yet?) while KR have it in trove. 

- i enjoy farming raids altough you can shortcut the soulshield farm with money but you could also buy all the soulshields that drop and by the end of season everybody have it so its ok. 

- soul, heart, pet, talisman are made with materials you can buy in F5 so if you are long time player you can usually afford and trove/boxes with help newcomers to catch up. 

At most, troving would put you 1 to 3 month ahead of others so you can catch up before season end. But on unity stones it is years ahead which put you outside of competition for F11 and you loose many k of hmcoins ! 


Its fine you can enjoy the game knowing you'll never achieve top ranks.  But i am not fine with it and many are not fine with it, just look at the reddit i posted there are only negative comments on the fact a pay2win got it day one while we will need years to achieve it.

Edited by NekoNoKishi

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Pay2Win is pretty much a double-edged sword. Without pay2win people with jobs where they work very long hours every day will not be able to get anywhere near end game and then they more or less quit the game. Also if you take out any grinding aspects, it just becomes too boring too fast when everyone is sitting at max gear after 1 month of starting the game. Gotta have balance which is difficult to find.

 

1 year of farming for insane super mega power sounds very reasonable to me. More power it gives, harder it should be to get.

 

But pay2win should have its limits as well. That's why it is a double-edged sword. Without some form of pay2win a free2play game can't really survive that long. I mean what are those people with jobs gonna do? They don't have time to grind out gear so they just pay2win it. And making the grind so easy and short that even those people with jobs can get it all would make the game uninteresting for a lot of people after awhile.

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il y a 11 minutes, Amarathiel a dit :

Pay2Win is pretty much a double-edged sword. Without pay2win people with jobs where they work very long hours every day will not be able to get anywhere near end game and then they more or less quit the game. Also if you take out any grinding aspects, it just becomes too boring too fast when everyone is sitting at max gear after 1 month of starting the game. Gotta have balance which is difficult to find.

 

1 year of farming for insane super mega power sounds very reasonable to me. More power it gives, harder it should be to get.

 

But pay2win should have its limits as well. That's why it is a double-edged sword. Without some form of pay2win a free2play game can't really survive that long. I mean what are those people with jobs gonna do? They don't have time to grind out gear so they just pay2win it. And making the grind so easy and short that even those people with jobs can get it all would make the game uninteresting for a lot of people after awhile.

You are out of topic.

I would have no problem with unity stones, if unity boxes were NOT in trove / boxes (like pysche are not in trove/boxes!)


Also i have no problem with putting money into the game and supporting it... as mentionned i put 500-1000 key every trove plus i am premium account since the start. 

My problem is that they advertised game would not have pay2win elements but there is. It is false advertising. 

 

Edited by NekoNoKishi

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