FinalLight

[REQUEST] Korean client for our playerbase (optimized)

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As for the video one is normal mode, other hard mode. One is also using simplified mode other isn't and then on top of that they are both running on different settings... It's set-up to try make KR look better and it still manages to drop from 120fps down to 40fps in combat, and that's in a dungeon not even a raid. Not sure what it's supposed to "prove" other than you can make anything look "way" better if you put your mind to it.

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1 hour ago, Snowyamur said:

Well, the game's poorly optimized, but if people are running it on low-tier PCs/ laptops, but whine about the game not running well first-hand without acknowledging this, I'd consider what the first problem is here.

 

Of course, trying to prove my point would be fruitless considering you're just bashing at me immaturely, so I'll stop now.

If the discussion is about bad optimization, mentioning the exact opposite is both irrelevant to the topic and annoying. It is constantly mentioned how the game runs poorly even on the best gaming computers. Minimal research and you can find endless threads and complaints about people with amazing gaming computers who can run any other game on maxed settings and get smooth gameplay, while streaming. As well known as it is, why even bother mentioning "Maybe it's your computer's fault" it on a thread like this where the issues with our client clearly being pointed out. 

7 minutes ago, Bobthemonk said:

a) just because a shop slaps a "gaming" sticker on something doesn't mean it will run games properly and b) they said in there first post, bold and underlined, that it was really badly optimized but apparently reading is difficult for you...

They put a contradiction there, just because they make an agreeing statement before they do so, doesn't really make it any better.
a) The game is badly optimized

b) But maybe it's your computer's fault
What kind of response are you expecting to part b? Use your brain.

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Posted (edited)

Russian server had crashes in mushin because after the patch the limit of players per chanell was increased. The same day community manager announces they contacted Kr developers and asked to send a fix. Next day asap maintanence, it was fixed. The limit of players per channel was restored to previous number. You had the same on western servers, how did you deal with that? You did nothing, you said nothing. Last time I logged in there were the same 2 crowded channels. Ru at least constantly keep in touch with community, they respond them in group, on forum, on streams and they do stream a lot. In your case I am wondering If anybody even work in B&S EU/NA?? You have community managers who don't communicate with its community and you have no idea about problems in the game which you demonstrate on regular basis in your rare contacts with players. What do they do then beside trove streams once per 4 months???

Recent patch was one of the heaviest hits on perfomance of the game which was always bad. But you said/did nothing after that. Constantly test playerbase patience by neglecting and ignoring. Well my patience reached the limit, I ve never thought UE4 is a solution but even UE4 is not coming for at least half of a year and that's the only thing you said to players in your generally ignoring attitude to game and playerbase. And you already at least on EU led the game to the state where it's unplayable much earlier before your potential UE4 release. There will be nobody to release it for.

Raiding on 5-15 FPS with constant stuttering, dungeons with stuttering, crowd places lag and stutter, even opening inventory in your version compare to Korean laggs. So at least 6 more months of that crap? You know, I thought and...
No way. 
 

Edited by penguinLOLO

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21 minutes ago, penguinLOLO said:

Russian server had crashes in mushin because after the patch the limit of players per chanell was increased. The same day community manager announces they contacted Kr developers and asked to send a fix. Next day asap maintanence, it was fixed. The limit of players per channel was restored to previous number. You had the same on western servers, how did you deal with that? You did nothing, you said nothing. Last time I logged in there were the same 2 crowded channels. Ru at least constantly keep in touch with community, they respond them in group, on forum, on streams and they do stream a lot. In your case I am wondering If anybody even work in B&S EU/NA?? You have community managers who don't communicate with its community and you have no idea about problems in the game which you demonstrate on regular basis in your rare contacts with players. What do they do then beside trove streams once per 4 months???

Recent patch was one of the heaviest hits on perfomance of the game which was always bad. But you said/did nothing after that. Constantly test playerbase patience by neglecting and ignoring. Well my patience reached the limit, I ve never thought UE4 is a solution but even UE4 is not coming for at least half of a year and that's the only thing you said to players in your generally ignoring attitude to game and playerbase. And you already at least on EU led the game to the state where it's unplayable much earlier before your potential UE4 release. There will be nobody to release it for.

Raiding on 5-15 FPS with constant stuttering, dungeons with stuttering, crowd places lag and stutter, even opening inventory in your version compare to Korean laggs. So at least 6 more months of that crap? You know, I thought and...
No way. 
 

Totally agree, it's like NA/EU has no dev team.
This has been ongoing for years now, but they always give empty promises or ignore the problem.
Or when they finally reply it's 
• "We need to check this & confirm if it's indeed a problem or the cause of the issue" <== never hear anything back
• "We're sorry that you are experiencing problems with your game, did you try repairing the client?" ..... BRUH

It's always the same story, i'm surprised actually so many players put up with it for so long.
A game company should be able to take criticism & act upon it to ensure their playerbase stays happy.
How I view it is that there are 2 outcomes to this.

1.  Everyone leaves the game slowly, playerbase drops & people are gonna find it harder to find parties and leave out of frustration (Allready see it happening)
2.  NCwest or NCsoft whoever is in charge of the real development of our client puts a halt to ongoing content creations/expansions & fix the issue at hand.
We are NOT asking to rush UE4, we couldn't care less.... we just want decent optimizations so we can enjoy the darn game without this stutterfest and 5-10fps raids. (20-30 if you are on the top-end of the system charts) 
But even that is unacceptable in today's standard for games.


Since your jobs rely on us keeping your game alive by playing it & spending our hard earned cash...  do something please for the love of god.
So many of us are on the verge of moving on to another game.. even those that spend alot and have pretty much end-game EQ.

I'm sorry if anything I said was rude but you have to understand our frustration NC

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Misaki   
Posted (edited)
Quote

how did you deal with that? You did nothing, you said nothing.

Id say people here say a lot at least the players. NCsoft EU ( is there even EU ...feels like everything happens in NA)  and NA just dont listen.

You cant blame people for not trying when our companies themselfs refuse to help the playerbase and do something about it. I think West has just given up. Maybe they know the game wont survive. Dont think BNS will shut down but maybe in the future it will be sold we all have seen numbers steadily go down.

So people do try but nothing ever happens. Some bugs are there for months and months but when something goes wrong in F10 its insta emergency maintanence. They care about money not about the people here. Fact is they closed german and french servers because simply they cant afford to keep them open. Giving lame excuse it will help the raiding makes no sense since how can you raid with french people we dont speak the same language. Most germans and french people will stick to their own and raiding will stay the same. I guess admitting we cant afford would look worse than lying.

Edited by Misaki

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prietess   

I swear that my laggy game has become MUCH WORSEEEEEEEEEEE after the latest patch.............

I literally freezed for 2 seconds every ~10 seconds or so in my TT raid, and it is soooooooooooooooooo baddddddddddddddddddd.

 

Not only in raids,

in dungeons too, it has become soooooooooooooooo lag even after I put all characters off and turned of all animations of all classes, I still freezed quite often for some reason.


Oh my God.

How I love this game and spent so much gold and time on this.

But how bad it is to play.

I don't have maximum gaming PC, yes, but I don't expect such low performance when I could play other MMOs with no problem like this.

It has been very bad, but I did do some of those optimizations in videos in youtube, turned off characters/animations etc. IT HELPED TO SOME EXTEND, even still 10 FPS in raids for a few times, but I could understand.

 

But if you freezed for every 10-20 seconds in raid, HOW TO ENJOY AND HOW TO DO MECH???

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Posted (edited)

I currently own 2 devices

A gaming laptop and a desktop pc


My specs are

Desktop PC

AMD FX8350+ @ 4.35GHz

16GB RAM HyperX @ 2000Mhz

Samsung EVO 840 SSD @ 500 GB 

Radeon RX 590 OC Fatboy @ 8GB 2300Mhz memory clock 1560Mhz Core Clock

 

Laptop

Intel i7 6700K @ 4.8GHz

16GB Ram *dont know the make* @ 2133Mhz

Seagate 500GB 7200rpm 5mb/s HDD

nvidia 980GTX 4GB 

 

Both devices are able to run top end games without issue, the most stressful game it can run (that I own) is GTA V in which both can run 100+ frames peak and around 50-60 frames during high activity (such as fire-fights and explosions cant think of anything that would stress the system more than those in gta) without errors/issues or any modifications that lend themselves to effciency.

The desktop runs on high settings, the Laptop runs with Geforce experience "optimized" settings, I never tampered with the presets and I've never felt the need to.

I do not have problems when I run games, including MMOs such as SWTOR and Aion, the only other games I run on both devices. I do not have fps issues on them, with the exception of siege in Aion or 16man raids in SWTOR which I still get over 30 fps, however, to be fair, the hero engine is more outdated than UE3, even BW openly disclose that the engine is overloaded in 16man as it was never intended to run them consistently (if you're inclined to think gpu engines are causation).

 

I can understand a person can dismiss this subject by saying "your rig is not enough".

But you need to also understand that when it comes to technology, upgrading hardware within the same generation/architecture will yield little-to-negligible results.

It's unrealistic to even propose such a thing and shows a lot of disregard that serves no purpose.

 

I think its unfair to suggest Hardware inadequacies a valid excuse, when no other game owned causes problems. Blade & Soul is not exactly a game that has ground breaking technology, and I don't recall any problems with any other game that runs on UE3, such as gears of war, Tekken 7 (they used UE3 before migrating to 4, both ran extremely well for me on PC), Batman Arkham City, Borderlands 2, XCOM series. These games I own, they all run smooth like a wet dream

 

EDIT - Somebody mentioned this in an earlier post

Quote

"About the EU vs KR performance comparison, a lot of the lag comes from the way they handle translations. After seeing the translation files it's clear that KR uses hardcoded strings, while the EU client goes though a "filter" that maps the KR strings into EN strings. Even with a hashing function/table that will take a lot more CPU power than using simple english keys (KR symbols use up more bytes than simple english letters)."

If I'm not mistaken, the KR client AND the Kr language already consider the english alphabet & symbols in it's design, so why would filtering even be necessary? 

Edited by kakikookie
addendum

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Ikimino   

 

Recommended

CPU -  Intel Quad Core / AMD Phenom II X4 

RAM - 4GB

Graphic Card - nVidia Geforce 8800GT / AMD Radeon HD4850

Hard Disk - 22GB

OS - Windows 7, Win 10 (64bit)

DirectX - 9.0c 

 

Official recommended system requirements taken from support page.

I would like to ask NCwest person here, please make a stream on this sort of PC and show us that there is no problem with game optimization.

 

I dont think NC even admitted in any of numerous posts on forums that the problem even exists!

But its cool, they will investigate it.

BTW players still investing in trove and game money, thinking that its going to get better. I have to admit it sure does work as we all can experience lately.

 

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12 hours ago, Misaki said:

Id say people here say a lot at least the players. NCsoft EU ( is there even EU ...feels like everything happens in NA)  and NA just dont listen.

You cant blame people for not trying when our companies themselfs refuse to help the playerbase and do something about it. I think West has just given up. Maybe they know the game wont survive. Dont think BNS will shut down but maybe in the future it will be sold we all have seen numbers steadily go down.

So people do try but nothing ever happens. Some bugs are there for months and months but when something goes wrong in F10 its insta emergency maintanence. They care about money not about the people here. Fact is they closed german and french servers because simply they cant afford to keep them open. Giving lame excuse it will help the raiding makes no sense since how can you raid with french people we dont speak the same language. Most germans and french people will stick to their own and raiding will stay the same. I guess admitting we cant afford would look worse than lying.

If NCSOFT decided to shutdown Wildstar out of nowhere, the same could happen with Blade & Soul, but being more likely should the game not provide enough revenue to keep the company afloat, or it no longer being a worthwhile project to work on with all these issues. I would be saddened, but not surprised, if Blade & Soul was going to shut down in NA and EU because KR is the company's top money-maker from this game, and given that this game was originally made in South Korea, it's also not surprising that the reception in the West is weak, which can potentially reinforce the decision to withdraw this game from the West.

 

But that's the thing. As a BnS player from NA, we get little to no reception from GMs and Team Bloodlust. What we say carries little value to them, and be it for money, greed, or selfishness; we don't really know the exact reason, but we say it's out of money because that's a common stigma held against game industries making games only for money. From recent patches, updates, and announcements, it's clear that the direction for this game isn't clear nor defined, and as I read on the Forums, the greatest problem with this game is the lack of consistency, which I couldn't agree more. This game is so inconsistent that every change makes previous features useless, and by useless, I don't mean power creep; I'm talking about revising systems originally set in place. When people spent hours using those features for loot, advantages, etc. only to have it stripped from them over some system change, that makes people unhappy. This was the White Orb scandal that happened months ago which infuriated many people, who likely spent hours farming for them, and it's the same thing.

 

After talking to people from my own region, many people are slowly leaving the game primarily because of performance issues, and I don't blame them. That's known already, but one thing they told me was that they're also leaving because no one listens, and everything they've done to help the game was futile. To this day, performance problems still aren't resolved, the game continues to remain a gambling RNG simulator, and there are bugs that I still encounter while playing the game. As customers, we deserve better treatment and support from Team Bloodlust because we're the ones keeping the game alive. If we chose not to play this game, nor spend money on it, this game would've been gone by now, but we're still doing it.

 

That's the sad thing: we're still a part of this game and its community, which continues going downhill.

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based on my observations and own experiences with the game I can say to stop blaming games graphics being unoptimized or servers being too bad. If what i read is true and the game is filtering out localized text, that is where most of the problems are. If I also understand it correctly, it doesn't take much to see how that type of filtering can easily cause unexpected random errors and lag when it has to constantly changed Korean text into English in that manor every time you open inventory or target a boss. When something is hard coded and some other program attempts to change that hard coded material, in this case localized text, it can easily break the hard coded code and cause issues. I think this is what we are mostly seeing.

 

Why I think this? Since people say that turning down graphics to essentially 0 will not help them and gives no changes whatsoever, that obviously means graphics and bad PC specs cannot be the main issue here. Something completely else is causing the problems. May it be localized text causing incompatibility issues or windows settings causing conflicts or something completely else, no one really knows for sure, can only speculate until proven. Main point is, it is probably something completely different than just graphics being unoptimized or servers plain crappy. To be fair, i'm starting to think that server problems and fps problems are just the symptoms caused by something else lurking deep in the game codes.

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1 minute ago, Amarathiel said:

based on my observations and own experiences with the game I can say to stop blaming games graphics being unoptimized or servers being too bad. If what i read is true and the game is filtering out localized text, that is where most of the problems are. If I also understand it correctly, it doesn't take much to see how that type of filtering can easily cause unexpected random errors and lag when it has to constantly changed Korean text into English in that manor every time you open inventory or target a boss. When something is hard coded and some other program attempts to change that hard coded material, in this case localized text, it can easily break the hard coded code and cause issues. I think this is what we are mostly seeing.

 

Why I think this? Since people say that turning down graphics to essentially 0 will not help them and gives no changes whatsoever, that obviously means graphics and bad PC specs cannot be the main issue here. Something completely else is causing the problems. May it be localized text causing incompatibility issues or windows settings causing conflicts or something completely else, no one really knows for sure, can only speculate until proven. Main point is, it is probably something completely different than just graphics being unoptimized or servers plain crappy. To be fair, i'm starting to think that server problems and fps problems are just the symptoms caused by something else lurking deep in the game codes.

Yes, so i.e. the source code for the game is breaking on itself.

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4
On 7/4/2019 at 4:52 PM, Grimoir said:

here is the video proof of the huge difference between KR client and our client using the same PC and the same class:

 

Specific attention to the quote:

 

"About the EU vs KR performance comparison, a lot of the lag comes from the way they handle translations. After seeing the translation files it's clear that KR uses hardcoded strings, while the EU client goes though a "filter" that maps the KR strings into EN strings. Even with a hashing function/table that will take a lot more CPU power than using simple english keys (KR symbols use up more bytes than simple english letters)."

AND IM SHURE you restarted your PC before Each gameplay, you DONT turned Any programs before, you Started at same time of the day, not 1 at night with +15 and another middle of day +30 with extra processor heat, and Both your "party" members from the same locations and delay between they're game and server are 100% same. You sound insane, it's not offline CD-DVD game with just 1 factor - Yours. Even if you throw stones to the neighbor window I'm sure you won't hit the same spot and IM SHURE that weather was same not 1 at sunny day and other at taifun, right? Nah it's Not HIS, but the masters of IT, whatever you just want some attention in your life and don't get any or gonna do It by yourself at all conditions?

And you sed, who is your masters?

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Ikimino   
Posted (edited)

I think we should just start sending email, twits and god knows what else straight to the Korean team somehow. Game for our region is getting everything from there anyway so there is no hurt in trying. I dont think they are getting the whole picture of whats going on here. Even if they dont respond to any of them it wont be any different from what we experiencing now. Nothing is resolve In our region anyway

 

Edited by Ikimino

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I don't know about anybody else but when I had "potato" computer I would often experience FPS drops, lag, freezes, disconnects, etc. I assembled a new "gaming" comp with descent (not the best) components witch made a noticeable improvement. I read on a post in this forum that certain things could be problems with the service provider, etc. I looked into it and got the common excuses and automated phone call dead ends. After calling for several weeks I finally got them to come to my house and do some tests. Turns out that when the cable guy went up on the pole he discovered that squirrels had chewed through the insulation on the co-ax cable causing it to have a semi ground fault. In that situation the signal still works but has diminished capacity. They replaced about 200 feet of cable including the drop line that connects between the pole and my house. B and S has run flawlessly ever since. This may have nothing to do with the problems so many people are having but it sure made a huge difference for me. Something worth checking at least.   

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3 hours ago, campclan2 said:

I don't know about anybody else but when I had "potato" computer I would often experience FPS drops, lag, freezes, disconnects, etc. I assembled a new "gaming" comp with descent (not the best) components witch made a noticeable improvement. I read on a post in this forum that certain things could be problems with the service provider, etc. I looked into it and got the common excuses and automated phone call dead ends. After calling for several weeks I finally got them to come to my house and do some tests. Turns out that when the cable guy went up on the pole he discovered that squirrels had chewed through the insulation on the co-ax cable causing it to have a semi ground fault. In that situation the signal still works but has diminished capacity. They replaced about 200 feet of cable including the drop line that connects between the pole and my house. B and S has run flawlessly ever since. This may have nothing to do with the problems so many people are having but it sure made a huge difference for me. Something worth checking at least.   

Thanks for your input buddy appreciate it,
But we are talking about performance not network related issues here.

I mean offcourse there will be a difference between a potato pc & a high-end system.
But it still doesn't make the game run as it should.
Did some testing over several days with a few discord people.

Range from old 3rd 4th gen cpu's till the newest i9 9900k OC'd @ 5ghz.
Everyone is experiencing issues, it's not system related.
It's the game client, that's why we are asking NCWest to do something.

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11 hours ago, Ikimino said:

I think we should just start sending email, twits and god knows what else straight to the Korean team somehow. Game for our region is getting everything from there anyway so there is no hurt in trying. I dont think they are getting the whole picture of whats going on here. Even if they dont respond to any of them it wont be any different from what we experiencing now. Nothing is resolve In our region anyway

 

You are right. Since nobody works in NCWest. Nobody here contacts to players and no doubts nobody contacts to Korean developers from here. It's a ghost town. And everything people talk on local forum stays on the local forum. Let's write directly there. Here is just chat between players - we talked, complained - not only nothing we ll'be changed, Koreans will not even know about all this. It's time to ask Koreans who manages game here.

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5 hours ago, FinalLight said:

Thanks for your input buddy appreciate it,
But we are talking about performance not network related issues here.

I mean offcourse there will be a difference between a potato pc & a high-end system.
But it still doesn't make the game run as it should.
Did some testing over several days with a few discord people.

Range from old 3rd 4th gen cpu's till the newest i9 9900k OC'd @ 5ghz.
Everyone is experiencing issues, it's not system related.
It's the game client, that's why we are asking NCWest to do something.

They why am I having no problems? 

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Grimoir   
6 hours ago, FinalLight said:

Thanks for your input buddy appreciate it,
But we are talking about performance not network related issues here.

I mean offcourse there will be a difference between a potato pc & a high-end system.
But it still doesn't make the game run as it should.
Did some testing over several days with a few discord people.

Range from old 3rd 4th gen cpu's till the newest i9 9900k OC'd @ 5ghz.
Everyone is experiencing issues, it's not system related.
It's the game client, that's why we are asking NCWest to do something.

As much as those tests showed something its tricky, reason why is because all those PC's may not have the same OS, the same software installed, patches, drivers, etc.

The only way it would 100% prove something is if you would run the same OS with all on it on each machine.

 

To Give you an example, When i run the game on my current PC, my old PC and my work Laptop , it runs fine, no problems no issues, and its different CPU / GPU's etc....but i do maintain the OS on all 3 the same way and have practically the same software installed on them all...

 

I would suspect more issues coming from the peoples PC's and OS than from the game client but i fully agree the game client is not innocent either.

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Ikimino   

I just made two short videos on Youtube with massive fps drops during trivial things in the game like hovering over the inventory and fishing. I can only hope whoever is reading forums from NCS can send it to the devs. 

 

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7 hours ago, campclan2 said:

They why am I having no problems? 

Let's see, I can only think of a 2 possibilities:

You're one of the lucky few who live closer to the server than most and have a decent computer and network connection, but also live in a bubble and think just because you have little to no issue, no one else should either.

or

You are having issues, but just too ignorant to realize it.

^ This 2nd reason can branch off into a few different things. Like, you don't know the different between okayish and good performance(I.e.150ms/30fps compared to 80ms/60fps), or maybe aren't really as competitive of a gamer as others so the poorer performance is good enough to get by. The latter would also suggest you live in a bubble, because you don't feel like your performance being limited by your connection is a big deal in an MMO, no one else should either.

If it's neither of those then beats me, Idk. But, for the 0.1% of the game population who the game runs fine for, they must be the most blissfully ignorant people on the planet if they think they're the only ones doing something right, and every other player who's ever played Blade & Soul just has some kind of computer or network issue that they can resolve without Bloodlust having to lift a finger.

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Grimoir   
3 hours ago, Ikimino said:

I just made two short videos on Youtube with massive fps drops during trivial things in the game like hovering over the inventory and fishing. I can only hope whoever is reading forums from NCS can send it to the devs. 

The tooltips that show when you hover over items, and the tooltips when comparing equipment are whats causing the drops. You can disable them in the settings but....thats a bad idea, better have it fixed.

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Guys please do not deviate from the topic.
It's about performance issues not network issues.

A better network, being closer to the server, using new cables whatever WILL NOT change your framerates.

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imho BNS always had a very bad optimization when it came to world "streaming" there is so much freeze hip cut, slow down a bit everywhere that's pretty awfull.. ( and i dont even speak when you are with a lot of others players like in mushin, that's insane )

But yeah since that time i started played that game, and now, even with the different gaming computer, the game still pretty [moderated] regarding the performance ( but sure i have way higher framerate in general ) in general = nearly doesnt matter your spec, the issue come from the game / engine itself.

 

I also noticed the HUGE framedrop with the new BM spec, when in dungeon i can be at around 100fps or so, during a boss fight i can drop to 40-50ish...  And that even if i hide the other players, which let be real, its not that fun to not see others players

 

Guess the UE3 never was a great engine to handle such game, but this is really bad tho, especialy when BNS only have such "small maps" and kinda outdated graphic that shouldnt be that hard for actual hardware.

( I mean, i nearly have a better framerate & way more stable in BDO, which is way more recent, display way more things, its a real open world.. etc so well...)

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On 18/07/2019 at 8:39 AM, FinalLight said:

@Baskerville  Any update yet from the team regarding this matter?

Not much more to add to what I've already said in the attached post. The current client (which is also from Korea) will stay as is. Let's see about the perfomance when the update has arrived.

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