Saekko

Can we get some answers to the performance issues?

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On 6/27/2019 at 7:55 AM, Saekko said:



Then I had an interesting conversation with an Intel engineer. This guy tells me the reason BnS has these FPS and ms problems is because they're using poor servers, and nothing we can do is going to help. 

 

What ever engenier tells something this stupid needs to be fired imediately. 

FPS is CPU/GPU related and no servers can make up for game optimization.

I ma sick of people who have no idea how game works and just troll forum trying to find excuses for their game poor performance.

I have an i5 2500k with AMD 7800 card and game runs on 10 fps in raids and 30-50 normal fps. Yes it suck but its because my PC is not good enough for the game, which is also running on old engine and not optimizaed properly for the flashines of this game. 

If you have ping  lags then the problem is your ISP, or the rout your ISP connects to the game servers. If it was servers fault, ALL woul.d have ping lag. And I never do, and i live in Balkans not Germany.

When people like you relate FPS issues (I doubt there is an engeneer involved here), immediately rises trolling suspisions among people who actually know something and they dont take you for serious.

So next time, at least try to open a disc ussion about something you are familiar with.

As for those who have monster PC but still have fps drops, there are already at least ten fixes on this forum only, mostly related to bluetooth, nvidia drivers, defender, or smth else.

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Astarae   

Today, I was getting 150-200ms, which is 60-70ms slower than normal.  Is it true NCSoft has been under a DoS attack the past few days?

 

 

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Saekko   

@Backstabpuss okay, then can you explain why A:ir doesn't have the "game optimization" problems in both KR and TW while the only difference being the servers? Those "fixes" you speak of don't actually work. I'm sick of people saying "oh try this fix it helps" when in reality it doesn't do anything if you're playing on a PC that doesn't have the specs of a potato. 

" in multiplayer games, the decoding and coding of the information is performed by the server of the game which is not related on any way to your CPU , the frame drops that we found on multiplayer games are actually "lagged inputs/ outputs" from the server " Yeah that makes more sense to me than "the game isn't optimized properly" because they game USED TO RUN JUST FINE but now it magically doesn't? 

This is why I'm trying to get an answer from someone that should actually have them like someone that works for NC Soft or even better BnS. I'm not saying this or that is the reason the game runs like ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ I'm saying we deserve answers more than just the communities best guesses. 

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25 minutes ago, Saekko said:

@Backstabpuss okay, then can you explain why A:ir doesn't have the "game optimization" problems in both KR and TW while the only difference being the servers? Those "fixes" you speak of don't actually work. I'm sick of people saying "oh try this fix it helps" when in reality it doesn't do anything if you're playing on a PC that doesn't have the specs of a potato. 

" in multiplayer games, the decoding and coding of the information is performed by the server of the game which is not related on any way to your CPU , the frame drops that we found on multiplayer games are actually "lagged inputs/ outputs" from the server " Yeah that makes more sense to me than "the game isn't optimized properly" because they game USED TO RUN JUST FINE but now it magically doesn't? 

This is why I'm trying to get an answer from someone that should actually have them like someone that works for NC Soft or even better BnS. I'm not saying this or that is the reason the game runs like ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ I'm saying we deserve answers more than just the communities best guesses. 

Additionally, it's not like various people's ISP got together and unanimously decided "hey, let's mess with some people playing BnS" and degraded their routes one week and then corrected them the next.  Blaming people's various PC's and ISP's for the same problem time and again doesn't pass the smell test.  Basic reasoning says to eliminate the variables until you get down to the common factor involved.  And that is the server and the netcode it uses.  But they cannot and will not admit this.  So you are not going to get a response, only best guesses.

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Saekko   

@Deadly Intent I'm sure they won't say anything. But I'll continue to ping them at least once a week on this thread till they at least acknowledge that they saw the post -_-

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Grimoir   
3 hours ago, Deadly Intent said:

Additionally, it's not like various people's ISP got together and unanimously decided "hey, let's mess with some people playing BnS" and degraded their routes one week and then corrected them the next.  Blaming people's various PC's and ISP's for the same problem time and again doesn't pass the smell test.  Basic reasoning says to eliminate the variables until you get down to the common factor involved.  And that is the server and the netcode it uses.  But they cannot and will not admit this.  So you are not going to get a response, only best guesses.

The problem is that your ISP connects through different nodes to the server, these are not always the same, and if one of the nodes has an issue that affects your connection.

While its hard to believe, most of ping issues are related to ISP problems (given servers also have some issues and nc's ISP is also not fully innocent)

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Fiana   
Posted (edited)

do you know when FF14 release, it's not good... in fact it's terrible, and square enix ditch the entire team and remake the entire game?
and now FF14 is subscription base game

you see, we as player don't mind paying monthly as long the service and game we get is premium, good performance, amazing story, etc
if bns team don't get payed enough, you can make the game subscription for around $10-$15 a month IF the game is good.

:wink:

there the first thing that i hope bns team one day able to achive, to remove hide character feature, and still have good performance.

right now iam using 1080p monitor, but i have to change my grapic setting to 720p because if i don't my fps will be crawling on the floor
so, any "good grapic" you give is look a bit blury in here.

- hide character
- disable animation from bns buddy other than my clas
- reduce grapic setting to all 3
- reduce resolution to 720p

that is how bad the thing right now. thanks you

Edited by Fiana

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NightFer   
9 hours ago, Saekko said:

" in multiplayer games, the decoding and coding of the information is performed by the server of the game which is not related on any way to your CPU , the frame drops that we found on multiplayer games are actually "lagged inputs/ outputs" from the server " Yeah that makes more sense to me than "the game isn't optimized properly" because they game USED TO RUN JUST FINE but now it magically doesn't? 

I dont know who told you this, but that doesnt work for Blade and Soul, since there is little the server is doing in its case. For MMOs its like 70/30 in terms of coding and decoding (PC/Server). FPS drops are caused by PC specs, bad communication between your parts or any kind of other things (software and hardware) on your end. Almost all the games assets are on your PC, so the server have absolutely no connection to this.

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@Saekko Nonsense of the highest caliber. By your logic, every little jitter would get your fps into the single digits, something that clearly doesn't happen. The server runs on 20 tickrate. That's 20 beats per second when it comes to information gathering (inputs). Your client doesn't need server feedback in order to run the simulation. It will just "freeze" all the actors in their current positions until told otherwise, or until it declares timeout due to broken loop. If you have the hardware to run the simulation at it's heaviest with 120 fps, then you'll have 120 fps regardless of whether there's incoming update stream or not. Only a select few fps games have their simulation building on raw input. Nowadays you sandbox the scene completely and just update it. Saves a lot of CPU cycles and ram bandwidth, not to mention eliminates most of the l2 cache tied bogs (which can happen in games like counter strike for example).

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Saekko   

@MassiveEgo What do you mean? It does lol. I face away from people 120fps I turn around so someone is on my screen bam - 100 fps -_- This is BnS I've thrown logic out the window because it clearly has no place here lmao. 

It might not be BnS's fault at all I just want to know why we can't play the game with others without losing 99.874% of our fps and ms. I do remember when it launched for NA I couldn't hardly play the game at all. It would take 20 minutes to launch and then after waiting through the login queue I'd get in to have 1 fps and 9000 ms. Turns out at that time it was due to some software that I had installed on my PC that came with my new Asus Hero VII motherboard at the time. Iirc it was "Gamefirst 3". After I removed every trace of that from my system I was magically back up to max fps and a nice ms under 50 that never had spikes. Until MSP released then everything went to ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤. 

During the first few weeks that MSP was a thing I would get this random crashes followed by a pop up saying my GPU kernal had crashed. Contacted EVGA and they said to run my GPU in debug mode because "it was tuned too high for the game I was trying to play" so I turned on debug mode and never had a GPU crash again while playing BnS (It also happened to get rid of a lot of the random lag I was experiencing at the time). 

My point is that it could be something software related that has a conflict with BnS, it could be the servers, it would be windows 10, it could be the games optimization, Or anything else at this point I don't even have a clue. BUT SOMEBODY AT BNS KNOWS WHY THIS IS HAPPENING and they aren't telling us ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤. 

I shouldn't have these problems with my last system running a 4790k at 4.5-4.8 and running the game on a SATA SSD or my current system with a 9700k at 5.2-5.6 running the game on a M.2 SSD. In fact the only thing that changed between the two completely separate PCs was my new one gets on average about 5 more fps during raids with characters turned off (which puts me on the first boss of ET for example at about 17-23 fps and it peaks at 36 fps while never being consistent in the least) Literally nothing from BnS buddy helps anything at all. None of the 20 support tickets helped at all on any of my machines, changing ISPs didn't help, having my cables replaced at my house didn't help, nor did spending $500 on a new router and modem. 

And a side note. I didn't expect the game to run any better when I built my most recent PC but of course I was hopeful. 
@Bronn @Hime @Amraith @Aurinya @Youmukon @Cyan @PhoenixMitra @Baskerville @whippleshuffle @Sunshine @Onirique @EmperorLeto Somebody? Anybody? Help?

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SkFy   

500mbit dutch internet, distance to the server 272km... ping spikes anywhere between 50->500ms ingame all the time..
My fps also keeps dropping constantly even though I have a 8700k running at 5.2ghz with an rtx2060, 16gb ram and 960 evo nvme + 850 pro ssd..
Ping been horrible ever since the Amazon server switch, before that I had like 50-60ms stable.... 
Made like 1000 topics by now, it's never gonna get addressed sadly :s always people like this grimoir kissing ncsofts behinds and trying to somehow blame it on my pc or internet, even though that's perfectly fine with any other game online... 

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NightFer   

MS problems are connected to your ISP routing and the servers ISP routing. If your ISP routing is bad, no matter what PC you have or what server there is, your ping will be high. How to change that? Use VPN to get better server routing.

And about the fps problems its a known issue for ages and its not that easy to fix. If it was, it wouldve been fixed by now. Veteran players know this very well or IT people. Guess you @Saekko are neither of them. Dont bother poking the forum admins/mods, none of them is going to answer you :D

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Saekko   

@NightFer I live in North America where 98% of people only have access to one or two ISPs and they're all terrible, and I haven't played with anyone that has a good ping. VPNs almost never help anyone lower their ms. I started playing KR BnS years before it finally came to NA, and I have a degree in computer science thank you very much ( albeit networking was not my concentration and I hate it). And what do you mean "Dont bother poking the forum admins/mods, none of them is going to answer you" What do you think they're here for? 

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RinDman   

Mushin tower : Crownded place => Out of memory

 

Can you deploy UE4 FAST NCSOFT ? :)  We are all using x64bits client ...

 

And I have 16Gb of RAM ... Chrome closed

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SkFy   
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, NightFer said:

MS problems are connected to your ISP routing and the servers ISP routing. If your ISP routing is bad, no matter what PC you have or what server there is, your ping will be high. How to change that? Use VPN to get better server routing.

And about the fps problems its a known issue for ages and its not that easy to fix. If it was, it wouldve been fixed by now. Veteran players know this very well or IT people. Guess you @Saekko are neither of them. Dont bother poking the forum admins/mods, none of them is going to answer you :D

Nonsense, my internet and ping is perfectly fine in any other game... except bns..
500mbit internet, ping to any other Frankfurt server is like 17.... bnsbuddy also shows 17.
But ingame its total lagfest... ping anywhere between 50 and 500.

 

And gotta love these peoples logic how all our ISPs from all around Europe become laggy at the same time, only towards BNS servers... :D 
Must be true ye... most logical explanation 

Edited by SkFy

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Well... considering half of Europe uses Telia as their Tier 1 backbone carrier, I fail to see why people are surprised that there are lag spikes due to congestion. These scrubs are so overloaded, it's a miracle we don't get packet losses in the upper half of the double digits. For anything that's not gaming or live streaming, it would make no difference if a package gets a timeout here and there, or gets "accidentally" flushed by a node. For gaming howeder, every packet counts. And with BnS and it's ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ tendency to just drop you the moment one package doesn't come back, it counts even more. W*Fast helps when it comes to long distance connections. They use a dedicated set of traces and have their own negotiated contracts for tunneling. The sad reality however is that no matter what you do, there are situations where no vpn can help you. For example if Telia's nodes in western Europe go wild, something which happens all the time cause Telia suck at traffic shaping and at everything else (I wouldn't hire them to buy me cable from the store tbh), there's an extremely high chance that you might not be able to fix your latency by just tying knots in vpn solutions. And then there are the situations where your ISP can be a total brick and have issues with their internal network which wouldn't surface via classical probing methods. Or some part of the network is set to delay specific traffic, which results in massive lags for whoever is affected. All in all here's how I see it - the ping issue is not your issue to solve. Keep ringing your isp nontstop until they figure it out. You pay the money to them. If some part of the network is being an idiot, they have the authority to hold their backbone provider responsible and task them with solving it. Yes, even if the issue is with amazon server nodes. You would be wise to send a ticket to NC support for that one as well, as they hand out the cash to Amazon and can get them to look after their network and so on. 8/10 the problem is due to our ISPs being potatoes and trying to cheap out on transit deals. The moment their pipe gets congested, we as gamers start to suffer.

 

And on point of server hardware being a bag of fertilizer, I wouldn't say so. As long as there are people who have NO issues with their delay, as of it's 99.999999999999999999999999% stellar quality, then the issue is with the NA/EU networks.

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SkFy   
7 hours ago, MassiveEgo said:

Well... considering half of Europe uses Telia as their Tier 1 backbone carrier, I fail to see why people are surprised that there are lag spikes due to congestion. These scrubs are so overloaded, it's a miracle we don't get packet losses in the upper half of the double digits. For anything that's not gaming or live streaming, it would make no difference if a package gets a timeout here and there, or gets "accidentally" flushed by a node. For gaming howeder, every packet counts. And with BnS and it's ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ tendency to just drop you the moment one package doesn't come back, it counts even more. W*Fast helps when it comes to long distance connections. They use a dedicated set of traces and have their own negotiated contracts for tunneling. The sad reality however is that no matter what you do, there are situations where no vpn can help you. For example if Telia's nodes in western Europe go wild, something which happens all the time cause Telia suck at traffic shaping and at everything else (I wouldn't hire them to buy me cable from the store tbh), there's an extremely high chance that you might not be able to fix your latency by just tying knots in vpn solutions. And then there are the situations where your ISP can be a total brick and have issues with their internal network which wouldn't surface via classical probing methods. Or some part of the network is set to delay specific traffic, which results in massive lags for whoever is affected. All in all here's how I see it - the ping issue is not your issue to solve. Keep ringing your isp nontstop until they figure it out. You pay the money to them. If some part of the network is being an idiot, they have the authority to hold their backbone provider responsible and task them with solving it. Yes, even if the issue is with amazon server nodes. You would be wise to send a ticket to NC support for that one as well, as they hand out the cash to Amazon and can get them to look after their network and so on. 8/10 the problem is due to our ISPs being potatoes and trying to cheap out on transit deals. The moment their pipe gets congested, we as gamers start to suffer.

 

And on point of server hardware being a bag of fertilizer, I wouldn't say so. As long as there are people who have NO issues with their delay, as of it's 99.999999999999999999999999% stellar quality, then the issue is with the NA/EU networks.

The server we had before this was in exactly the same town... and people didn't lag :s
Seems very strange to me that my ISP would pick 2 different routings to servers located in the same town...

 

Anyway,  they can keep blaming it on everyone's ISP... or they can just find a host that doesn't have problems with 50%+ of their player base "ISP routing" :S 
We need new servers, no matter what the problem is.... these are causing too much problems for people.
And you really won't get your ISP to change the routing to 1 specific server if any other traffic they send that direction gets trough perfectly fine...

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Grimoir   
1 hour ago, SkFy said:

The server we had before this was in exactly the same town... and people didn't lag :s
Seems very strange to me that my ISP would pick 2 different routings to servers located in the same town...

 

Anyway,  they can keep blaming it on everyone's ISP... or they can just find a host that doesn't have problems with 50%+ of their player base "ISP routing" :S 
We need new servers, no matter what the problem is.... these are causing too much problems for people.
And you really won't get your ISP to change the routing to 1 specific server if any other traffic they send that direction gets trough perfectly fine...

Your ISP can pick multiple different routings, so that is possible, but i do think the same as most others that the issue there isnt really ISP but the amazon servers.

Thats why players use ping boosters, because what they do is choose the best routing for your connection and thats how they improve your latency since most ping programs have their very own servers they route players through, some in locations where your ISP doesnt even have any.

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NightFer   
14 hours ago, Saekko said:

@NightFer I live in North America where 98% of people only have access to one or two ISPs and they're all terrible, and I haven't played with anyone that has a good ping. VPNs almost never help anyone lower their ms. I started playing KR BnS years before it finally came to NA, and I have a degree in computer science thank you very much ( albeit networking was not my concentration and I hate it). And what do you mean "Dont bother poking the forum admins/mods, none of them is going to answer you" What do you think they're here for? 

Thats your countries problem, lad. In my town alone I have 15-20 ISPs I can choose from. And they say USA is the country of unlimited possibilities :D Jokes on you :D.

Anyways, like @MassiveEgo said, for EU, Telia is the devil which operates in 2/3 of the whole continent and we know they are complete garbage (proven many times to ruin our BnS experience throughout the years). There is no other T1 provider for now and we have to suffer till there is someone better.

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Grimoir   
3 hours ago, NightFer said:

Thats your countries problem, lad. In my town alone I have 15-20 ISPs I can choose from. And they say USA is the country of unlimited possibilities :D Jokes on you :D.

Anyways, like @MassiveEgo said, for EU, Telia is the devil which operates in 2/3 of the whole continent and we know they are complete garbage (proven many times to ruin our BnS experience throughout the years). There is no other T1 provider for now and we have to suffer till there is someone better.

i have never heard of Telia and i am from Belgium lol...here i can choose from 6 different operators o.o

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4 hours ago, Grimoir said:

i have never heard of Telia and i am from Belgium lol...here i can choose from 6 different operators o.o

Telia are a tier 1 backbone carrier. Imagine a cardio vascular system. The thick arteries are the backbone carriers, the lower circumference arteries are the smaller transit ISPs (a country scale telecom for example) and on the bottom of the chain are the capilary tubes - our readily available end user ISPs.

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Saekko   

Still getting higher ms than fps, still waiting on some answers. 

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oblo   

Well... BnS is my favorite powerpoint presentation atm.

 

Srsly, get some fixes out, at times I get 10fps in places I had zero issues with ever since launch...

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Hi all,

 

There will be some adjustments with Roots of Malice to

  • Mushin’s Tower
  • Some dungeon and raid environments
  • Spectral Blade Spec

But there is a caveat to this. Performance on PC it difficult to test due to the infinite amount of software and hardware component variants. We expect an overall performance increase and hope to get it to a level where it was before Empyrean Shadows' release, but we will be reliant on your feedback when the patch hits live servers.

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Posted (edited)

Hmm,

wouldn't it be more useful to test this with a test server before?
Best suited for this would be the players with the most problems.

They would sooner find out if it works or not.

 

Besides, good that finally something is tried / done.

And thanks for the Information / message.

Edited by Wolfengel

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