Broken Trove Logic

[Qiuness]

So i think NCSoft should either have a serious talk with the guy which decides what the crit's contain or they are making fun of ppl on purpose.

 

I decided to invest almost 100$ just this trove to get at least 1 3star with something nice! 
Today i got my wish.. 3star. Upon closer inspection i can see this must be a joke.

SKINS?! 
300G worth of mats?!

https://i.imgur.com/mUn2ZGp.jpg

 

I had 2star crits that had better loot.. so what is the point of 3*** crit's if they contain useless loot. If they think some people value skins more then guilded gems or heck 3 PTS's at least then they should do 2 versions of the 3*** crit when it drops..  THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE in my opinion. Sorry.. 

 

Maybe i`m missing something, but would you guys be happy with the choice in that screenshot?

[Deadly Intent]

There is a thread discussing this already.  And no, it's not acceptable.  It's a slap in the face.

Just about every trove opening has addressed this issue but here is a specific link with pics:  

 

Edited June 26, 2019 by Deadly Intent

[Qiuness]

Can you link me to it please?

[Qiuness]

Basically the answer is F.off we set the 3 *** to just throw random shet as rewards.. cool bro

 

Quote

Greetings,

This is GM Yehara and thank you for contacting Blade & Soul Game Support Team.

Regarding your treasure trove experience, we thank you for your feedback towards it. I have investigated the mechanics of it and verified that its random mechanic is working as intended. If you have any additional feedback or suggestion about the Tropical Treasure Trove event, please post your thoughts on our official forums. From there, the Community Team will take note of it so that they can forward it to the proper department for further review. 

Forums: https://forums.bladeandsoul.com/topic/245613-tropical-treasure-trove-available-june-19/ 

Unfortunately, your request to refund the trove keys you've used is not eligible to be granted as this will only bypass RNG mechanic of the event.

If you have any other in-game requests or issues, you can contact us from a new ticket. Until then, take care.

Kind Regards,

GM Yehara
NCSOFT Support Team

 

 

[Grimoir]

2 hours ago, Qiuness said:

So i think NCSoft should either have a serious talk with the guy which decides what the crit's contain or they are making fun of ppl on purpose.

 

I decided to invest almost 100$ just this trove to get at least 1 3star with something nice! 
Today i got my wish.. 3star. Upon closer inspection i can see this must be a joke.

SKINS?! 
300G worth of mats?!

https://i.imgur.com/mUn2ZGp.jpg

 

I had 2star crits that had better loot.. so what is the point of 3*** crit's if they contain useless loot. If they think some people value skins more then guilded gems or heck 3 PTS's at least then they should do 2 versions of the 3*** crit when it drops..  THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE in my opinion. Sorry.. 

 

Maybe i`m missing something, but would you guys be happy with the choice in that screenshot?

Well, i wouldnt say its "unacceptable" but....i do think they exagerated with the i will say "value" of the weapon skins.  While, yes i think those weapon skins should be in a 3 star crit, the other items should have been different. but you have to keep in mind, most of the playerbase values weapon skins / costumes more over materials and thats where they were heading with this.

 

I do however not agree on you getting a key refund, simply because you dont deserve one, oyu know its a rng event and you willingly decided to spend 100$, you said so yourself.

Sadly its arguing over spilled milk now, but hopefully they take the feedback for the next trove in 3 months.

 

[Arohk]

Got the same crap on my last 5 keys i used, saw 3 star, and almost cheered, just to have my jaw dropping, it is worth a two star crit but not 3.

And this time i can't even sell the stupid weapon skin for 1000+ gold on the marked, i don't use it because it covers my character and makes my FPS go down.

 

This was the last time i bought keys, do you ever think i get a harmony gems or what was it with the 60 sacret oil crits back then? nope.

Edited June 26, 2019 by Arohk

[Qiuness]

Exactly... I want a refund of the ncoin as well.. don't care about rolling again.. And like Arohk said, at least if they were sellable .. but noooo.. This kind of error is unacceptable imo, and ppl getting this Crit should at least receive something compensatory...that is of course if they intend those players to ever spend $ for the game ever again.. Which i defenitly won't do if i don't get a 3 *** compensation. 

[Qiuness]

typical of ncsoft when they need to confront a real problem, ignoring it

[prietess]

On 6/27/2019 at 3:39 AM, Qiuness said:

 

https://i.imgur.com/mUn2ZGp.jpg

 

I got the same 3 star crit on my 50 keys T.T

And obviously it's the only 3 star.

Now I  dont know if I should trove again..............

[Astarae]

On 6/26/2019 at 12:39 PM, Qiuness said:

So i think NCSoft should either have a serious talk with the guy which decides what the crit's contain or they are making fun of ppl on purpose.

 

I decided to invest almost 100$ just this trove to get at least 1 3star with something nice! 
Today i got my wish.. 3star. Upon closer inspection i can see this must be a joke.

SKINS?! 
300G worth of mats?!

https://i.imgur.com/mUn2ZGp.jpg

 

I had 2star crits that had better loot.. so what is the point of 3*** crit's if they contain useless loot. If they think some people value skins more then guilded gems or heck 3 PTS's at least then they should do 2 versions of the 3*** crit when it drops..  THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE in my opinion. Sorry.. 

 

Maybe i`m missing something, but would you guys be happy with the choice in that screenshot?

 

I complained to support .. I bought 20 boxes for my 2 mains, that's 2000 tix, I did get the outfits that were at all interesting, but didn't get the sapphire wings on either char.  I was told that the trove was working as designed.  I wanted to know the odds, and was told they don't have that info -- I pointed out that if that was the case, then how do they know if things are working as designed?  i.e. if chances for wings were set at 100% but only .002% got them, how would they know it was working or not?  Same if chances were set at 0 based on previous wins in the same even.  I.e. Someone did some bulk research over a trove time period and noticed the odds of getting anything good went down over the length of the event.  

 

However, the same behavior would happen if the trove lowered an account's odds the more they won.

I.e. if you don't get it in the first few boxes, at most (across all accounts, not per char), but you do get

some 2+3 crits, then your chances may be adjusted down to prevent you from getting too much.

 

Wanted the wings, and want the Bloodlust ensemble, but can they make them available in trove such that they are possible to get?  Naw.....  

[Noukah]

Same for me, I wanted some stuff from this Trove, but I knew I was going to waste my money, I knew it.

 

Instead of listening my brain, I've listened my... well I don't really know?

 

£50 flushed down for some Mats (that can be easily farmed), Cosmetics (they are not that great), and 2 Hexa Obsidian Gems. I've probably got 3 or 4 time a * * * Crit.

 

I want to die.

Edited June 28, 2019 by Noukah

[REv002]

I think you dont go to the manager in a casino and complain to him that you didnt win the amount you wanted. Trove is just gambling nothing else. You either get your item you want or not like in a casino you win or lose. Im not  defending ncsoft as i dont spend on casino minigames. I bought 100 keys for hmcoins i got nothing from it i got what i anticipated.

[Astarae]

6 hours ago, REv002 said:

I think you dont go to the manager in a casino and complain to him that you didnt win the amount you wanted. Trove is just gambling nothing else. You either get your item you want or not like in a casino you win or lose. Im not  defending ncsoft as i dont spend on casino minigames. I bought 100 keys for hmcoins i got nothing from it i got what i anticipated.

At the casino's though the chances of you winning are posted and known in advance.  All of the modern slots are programmable by the owner as to how much "hold".  On larger bet machines, the hold is a smaller percent, like 1-3%. From the consumer/user standpoint those machines have a 97-99% payback or a win rate of 0.97 - 0.99.   Machines also have a different number of rounds to play before a jackpot is hit.  A 1$ machine with 5 symbols and 5 columns that need to match, for one symbol would have  ⅕ × ⅕ × ⅕ × ⅕ × ⅕ = 1/3125.  But there are 5 values that can match, so win chances are 5/3125 or 1/625.  If it paid off $625 every 625 rounds, the winning odds on that machine would be 1.00.  Say the machine owner inputs their "hold", at 4%, that means in 625 rounds the machine only returns $600.  For a gambler, they'd rate that machine having a 96% average return.  The odds are supposedly better today, but 18 years ago, on Nickel slots, returns ranged from 93.4% at the highest casino, to 85.02% at the airport.  Now days, some casinos advertise a 99% payout on some of their slots.

 

Think for a second, comparing slots with trove.  w/slots you get back over 90%, average.  With trove, the payback isn't in dollars, but in virtual goods that have a 0 dollar, incremental cost.  In vegas, the main source of income is from slot machines!  Even with casinos giving back 90% in real money, the slot machines are where casinos make most of the money.

 

Ignoring the value of the payout, one might look at the frequency of payout on highly wanted items.  Well, if something doesn't come out in 2000 plays, its not 

likely to have very high odds of being paid out.    In all of this, whether NCSoft gives you a payout in 10 plays or 10,000 plays, their incremental cost is still $0.00.

 

Now you can claim that you should expect nothing from NCSoft's "prizes", but note, it also costs them nothing to give you a nice item vs. a fortune potion.  So it's a bit one sided to say that players should expect nothing when the founder of NCSoft, is #1349 this year on Forbes richest people list and is #10 on the list of  the worlds wealthiest video game billionaires.

 

[Dellecross]

Trying to compare this with a casino is laughable. Simplest reason why: the casino has to pay out prizes to the winner with real assets that casino must get somewhere in the real world. Publisher of any game can create as many "assets" as they please out of nothing. There's really no excuse for having it as bad as to rob people out of seemingly won prize.

[Grimoir]

42 minutes ago, Dellecross said:

Trying to compare this with a casino is laughable. Simplest reason why: the casino has to pay out prizes to the winner with real assets that casino must get somewhere in the real world. Publisher of any game can create as many "assets" as they please out of nothing. There's really no excuse for having it as bad as to rob people out of seemingly won prize.

The point of the comparison is this:

 

Casin = gambling, trove = gambling, you choose to do it at own risk, yet in a casino you dont complain you loose, here complainers come out like mushrooms after rain, even tho they know exactly what they were doing spending their money.

[Dellecross]

1 hour ago, Grimoir said:

The point of the comparison is this:

 

Casin = gambling, trove = gambling, you choose to do it at own risk, yet in a casino you dont complain you loose, here complainers come out like mushrooms after rain, even tho they know exactly what they were doing spending their money.

Aye-aye... it looks like defending the greed of the certain publisher is certain someone's hobby. Can't help that. As can't help but to see my point was completely missed. Just to repeat: it costs them absolutely nothing to fix the pathetic rolls on 3-stars and make them meaningful. Repeat: Absolutely nothing. They don't pay it with any money or other real resource. They can make as many virtual "goods" as they want and not lose a penny. But when they don't fix it, they have unhappy customers. Unhappy customers don't cash in. So short-sight greed beats long-term sense I guess. With policy like that no wonder population is declining.

[Grimoir]

5 hours ago, Dellecross said:

Aye-aye... it looks like defending the greed of the certain publisher is certain someone's hobby. Can't help that. As can't help but to see my point was completely missed. Just to repeat: it costs them absolutely nothing to fix the pathetic rolls on 3-stars and make them meaningful. Repeat: Absolutely nothing. They don't pay it with any money or other real resource. They can make as many virtual "goods" as they want and not lose a penny. But when they don't fix it, they have unhappy customers. Unhappy customers don't cash in. So short-sight greed beats long-term sense I guess. With policy like that no wonder population is declining.

its not defending, its an objective view. Whether the pulisher is greedy or not, you decide what you do with and how you spend your money. you are not in any way forced to trove, and trove has been around for years with the same principle.

 

And yes they can fix it, and who knows maybe they will for the next trove in 3 months, for this one there is nothing thyy are going to do anymore. Whether you are happy or not doesnt really matter i'd say there are players who spend 10x more than someone and thats more then enough for them.

But one might considering giving a thought:  customer spends money on a gamble knowing its a gamble, and then cries because he didnt gamble what he wanted....do you realize how that sounds? he can be unhappy all he wants in the end its still his fault.

[Dellecross]

3 hours ago, Grimoir said:

its not defending, its an objective view.

By definition, something written by a person is a subjective point of view, not objective. Please don't state your opinion as something "correct". (saying "I'm objective" is not an argument, it's a subjective statement based on nothing). My point of view, however subjective it is, on the other hand, is supported by unhappy players (see on the forums, reddit or youtube to see that there are indeed many of them), as it is supported by the lack of common sense from the side of the publisher, and that lack is illustrated in the point above.

 

Sorry, but at this point I don't see this discussion going further, at least with you. No offense, really. You don't seem to get it - in a way that you hear but not listen.

[Kozuki]

Still better than a 3-star full of aransu prisms I got a few Troves ago.

[Astarae]

21 hours ago, Grimoir said:

The point of the comparison is this:

 

Casin = gambling, trove = gambling, you choose to do it at own risk, yet in a casino you dont complain you loose, here complainers come out like mushrooms after rain, even tho they know exactly what they were doing spending their money.

I guess you missed the point completely -- the reason is in casino, the odds are posted and known (usually, depends on venue, but in largest US venue, Nevada, it's the law).    Compare that to them having NO CLUE what they are doing spending their money where the odds are unknown, and the code create odds based on your past wins, your name,  and how much you spent in the last month. 

 

There could even be code "if player==Grimoir, then 1) reduce ping-wait to minimum, else add 30ms or more, 2) raise % chances for good things by 50% (including trove results)".  Even if not done with your name, people see some classes have benefits *in the game*, over other classes.  Why not add increased win-chances for some classes or races, whatever?  At the very least, an equal screw-everyone algorithm that gives lower odds based on number of 3-star crits this trove would be easy.  You can't claim that you *know* anything about how the odds are applied. 

 

Unless you've seen the code for this trove, you can't really claim to *know * that odds are fair or anything about them.  Even if other people win item 'X', doesn't mean it is winnable by others.  They could add in code to restrict number of an item that can be won in the trove to the first 'N' people.  Certainly wouldn't seem fair for a trove, but some items are restricted that way "as prizes" in other areas of the game, so it wouldn't be impossible to consider it being justified for inclusion elsewhere.

 

You can't know what you are doing -- unlike casinos or state lottos, where the odds change over time and are updated and republished as they change.  Show me where that info is for in-game items, and I'll believe the situations are similar.

 

[iKickz]

I crit this 3 star multiple times. I didn't get a single gem crit or sapphire wing crit in the past 3 troves I did. 3 star isn't really 3 star. The true 3 stars are more like 4 star, and actually have smaller rng chances than the trap 3 stars. 

[Dellecross]

3 hours ago, iKickz said:

I crit this 3 star multiple times. I didn't get a single gem crit or sapphire wing crit in the past 3 troves I did. 3 star isn't really 3 star. The true 3 stars are more like 4 star, and actually have smaller rng chances than the trap 3 stars. 

.. but, but... "the cosmetics may be valuable to someone else, all 3-stars are good!" .. Sigh..

[MassiveEgo]

On 6/27/2019 at 1:12 AM, Grimoir said:

Well, i wouldnt say its "unacceptable" but....i do think they exagerated with the i will say "value" of the weapon skins.  While, yes i think those weapon skins should be in a 3 star crit, the other items should have been different.

It's not worth 3 stars if it can't be sold. And those cannot be sold. Also "the playerbase" which "values skins more than materials", is a nonsense statement. Which mats? If we are talking about a nice fat 300 moonstones stack, for like 50-90g, then we can argue all day about how much "the playerbase" does value skins more than mats. In specific situations, yes, but when there is no real choice where you could feel like you've gotten a three star reward, no. For example if you have the dragon knight weapon skin in the same crit as the dragonbrand weapon skin, that would be alright as a two star crit. But a dragonbrand weapon skin, which is literally a retextured version of the old weapon we used as basis for making seraph/baleful. It's not remarkable, it's not pretty and the only "cool" factor to is, the dragon animation. The dark seraph is no different. It's largely 2D model with little to no redeeming qualities. I'd be kinda okay with seeing this same loot setup from a 2 star crit, but from 3 star crits I expect nothing less than square gems/dyads. Or some really, REALLY fat stack of cheap mats. in that sense the trove is a joke and always was a joke and you pretty much never get the bang for your buck.

[ElectricPotato]

In todays specials, 40x soulstone crystal in 18 ncoin/hmcoin.  a 1star trove page from a 49 ncoin/hmcoin key (may be slightly lower in bundle pricing) can have 3-5 soulstone crystals, for a few silver (5-10sp). 

 

If you consider the new jewel/element pricing in dragon express, or the moonstone/elysian crystals, most 1 star trove pages feel like losers. (I'd really like to see these one star pages redone, more of the 100 soulstone for 3g, more of the 15 hellion/5 imperial core pages, more of the 3 jewels/elements for 2.5g/unit, etc).

 

Factor in the dash rewards for the free daily spin, not much difference in value compared  to raising the reward amounts.

[ImoutoMaster]

Yesterday i opened another 100 keys in total like 350with hm coins and 150 with reallife money.

For some reason i got much and i mean much better stuff with my Ncoin keys. My last 100 yesterday gaven me like 7 crits with 3 stars and like 10 with 2 stars i got every damn item i wanted.

 

Dyed Garnet etc.

 

Not sure if i am just lucky with Ncoin keys or if the system is rigged tho. 350 HMcoin Keys = 2 crits with 3 stars (pretty trashy ones aswell), 150 Ncoin keys = 7 crits with 3 stars and the best ones aswell.