Viblo

Needed Changes for Way of the Spinning Storm

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Viblo   

Compared to Thundering Blade, Spinning Storm is a bit of a joke. The spec is overdue for some needed damage increases and other QoL improvements.

 

  • Despite having active Wind Charge and Wind Spirit up, certain occurrences like using Skyward Slash during Squall/Hurricane Slash/Talisman bugs Rolling Typhoon making it unusable. Using another skill in-between will fix the bug.
  • Aransu Mystic Badge's "Squall" has to occur more frequently to keep refreshing Wind Spirits for continuous Rolling Typhoon usage. During Skyward Slash and Whirling Scourge, most often your Wind Spirits run out for a brief moment creating an awkward break when you're supposed to be bursting.
  • Rolling Typhoon can not be used to remove certain stacks that are meant to be removed by using your abilities. An example is Brood Chamber's Nacha encounter, where the stacks "Demon Blood" won't go down. A Blade Dancer using Spinning Storm are forced to save their Wind Slash to put them in Draw Stance to be able to use Flicker and Wind Flash in order to remove all 10 stacks of Demon Blood, since skills like Breeze does not meet the mechanics' demand.
  • To close the damage gap between Thundering Blade and Spinning Storm, additional damage could be added to Hurricane Slash. Many specializations received one key skill responsible for either outputting very high damage (e.g. Blade Dancer's Fatal Blade) or providing a status effect able to drastically increase damage during the effect duration (e.g. Kung Fu Master's Wind Gyre). Spinning Storm Blade Dancers did not receive such a damage amplifier, but the weird part is that it's there. Hurricane Slash is a new skill that ties into the DPS rotation very well with the help of the Wildborne Soul Badge, so it seems weird to not add a lot more damage to Hurricane Slash. Starbreaker Bracelet already provides Attack Power bonus to Hurricane Slash during Starbreaker effect, but it barely helps at all. It does 5% of my personal current parse damage, so there's a lot of opportunities to do something here.

 

I'll add another post if there is anything else I can think of.

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Viblo   

Update on point #2:

 

You can get an absolute maximum of 4 Rolling Typhoons per second, where as Squall recovers 3 Wind Spirits every second. Unless you get godly RNG and trigger the random effect of Rolling Typhoon recovering a Wind Spirit on use, you're bound to have small yet awkward breaks during the rotation. This has to be changed.

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CooleSau   

Hi Viblo,

 

nice to meet another passionate wind player!

 

Most of all I enjoy playing wind since pink badge has been fusable. Rotation is smooth and constant dps is very nice if you can stay at boss and fights take a little bit longer.

 

Bugs... actually endboss of warped citadel bugs wind a lot. Not every run but maybe 2 out of 3 runs. I have tried to find a pattern but idk yet. Maybe burst must be high enough to skip a certain boss attack which bugs us?

 

Not enough wind orbs during Z: I agree. Maybe they cannot buff/change squall itself for pvp reasons. But something has to be done (increase chance to regain a wind orb?).

 

Sustain damage = constant damage - burst damage -> our sustain damage is very high!

 

TOI and Mao top 5 ranking should be possible having max gear (EU). Last season I ranked toi #2. Mao I did not invest those 2 oils because of gear gap and everything under #5 would mean no benefit.

 

I think a major balance issue is the passive of lightning which increases critrate. If lightning and wind would be 100% balanced for solo content then wind would be ahead in party-play (blue buff).

 

A little hint: wind is playable using simple mode. Sunder and Typhoon move to rmb. No rotation relevant skills move to rmb. Two benefits:

 

1) Those little gaps during Z are filled by a (maximum boosted) sunder. No awkward "stuttering". I do not know if this is a dps increase but it definitely feels better
2) dps freely using rmb. No risk to accidentally f-roll. No need to wait for ever after using tab (hmb is on F). Take care to not ani-cancel the spin too early.

 

BC boss 1 mark as wind bd: just start spamming lmb right after the grab. Do not get nervous -> you will do it in time

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Viblo   
1 hour ago, CooleSau said:

Hi Viblo,

 

nice to meet another passionate wind player!

 

Most of all I enjoy playing wind since pink badge has been fusable. Rotation is smooth and constant dps is very nice if you can stay at boss and fights take a little bit longer.

 

Bugs... actually endboss of warped citadel bugs wind a lot. Not every run but maybe 2 out of 3 runs. I have tried to find a pattern but idk yet. Maybe burst must be high enough to skip a certain boss attack which bugs us?

 

Not enough wind orbs during Z: I agree. Maybe they cannot buff/change squall itself for pvp reasons. But something has to be done (increase chance to regain a wind orb?).

 

Sustain damage = constant damage - burst damage -> our sustain damage is very high!

 

TOI and Mao top 5 ranking should be possible having max gear (EU). Last season I ranked toi #2. Mao I did not invest those 2 oils because of gear gap and everything under #5 would mean no benefit.

 

I think a major balance issue is the passive of lightning which increases critrate. If lightning and wind would be 100% balanced for solo content then wind would be ahead in party-play (blue buff).

 

A little hint: wind is playable using simple mode. Sunder and Typhoon move to rmb. No rotation relevant skills move to rmb. Two benefits:

 

1) Those little gaps during Z are filled by a (maximum boosted) sunder. No awkward "stuttering". I do not know if this is a dps increase but it definitely feels better
2) dps freely using rmb. No risk to accidentally f-roll. No need to wait for ever after using tab (hmb is on F). Take care to not ani-cancel the spin too early.

 

BC boss 1 mark as wind bd: just start spamming lmb right after the grab. Do not get nervous -> you will do it in time

Hello wind BD! Nice to see our rare breed still exists.

 

I definitely agree with most things here. The new fused Wildborne Soul Badge helped smooth our rotation by a lot and made wind BDs way more enjoyable. I've also experienced the same issues on Dread Prince Sobu in Warped Citadel, and I really have no clue what's causing it. At first I believed it was due to being in Spatial Isolation, but I experience the exact same issue when on the outside. It seems like not our passive skill nor the Liberty Soul Badge works properly.

 

I also agree about the issue with Wind Spirits. Changing the Squall effect might not be a great idea. If anything, I say the RNG effect on Rolling Typhoon to regenerate a Wind Spirit should be changed to always happening or by changing Whirling Scourge to generate an additional Wind Spirit over time. Not sure how good the idea of the RNG being removed completely is, haven't really thought it through.

 

As for Simple Mode, I use it as well, and the added Sunder when Rolling Typhoon is unavailable is a lifesaver. My only issue with it is that, well, it just seems like a bad way to design our most high damaging skill, and there's no way to adapt to the Rolling Typhoon's RNG Wind Spirit if you're parsing unless you always do a Sunder inbetween which will end up as a damage loss.

 

The two things I'd disagree about is the Nacha strategy and our damage output.

 

To start with Nacha, even if it's intended for Rolling Typhoon to not remove stacks of Demon Blood, it seems incredibly weird considering there's no issue for Lightning BDs who can use Flicker and Lightning Flash. Having to compromise by using LMB or saving Wind Draw (that's the name for C, right?) to use our own Flicker and Lightning Flash is just meh.

 

As for damage, while I'm far from an expert in Tower of Infinity, I can definitely see Wind BDs being proficient there. M'ao though? Not really. Looking at the current leaderboard right now, pretty much every single Blade Dancer is using Lightning. Maybe that's just because most people prefer Lightning (god knows why they do that), but I'm yet to see any Wind BD reaching one of the top spots.

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CooleSau   
vor 21 Stunden schrieb Viblo:

To start with Nacha, even if it's intended for Rolling Typhoon to not remove stacks of Demon Blood, it seems incredibly weird considering there's no issue for Lightning BDs who can use Flicker and Lightning Flash. Having to compromise by using LMB or saving Wind Draw (that's the name for C, right?) to use our own Flicker and Lightning Flash is just meh.

 

As for damage, while I'm far from an expert in Tower of Infinity, I can definitely see Wind BDs being proficient there. M'ao though? Not really. Looking at the current leaderboard right now, pretty much every single Blade Dancer is using Lightning. Maybe that's just because most people prefer Lightning (god knows why they do that), but I'm yet to see any Wind BD reaching one of the top spots.

I would like to use Typhoons for doing Nacha's mech too.

 

Most people play the spec that is ahead dps-wise no matter if the difference is 5% or 20% including people with the best gear. Additionally a lot of people just do their dailies and try hard at end of season.

 

Imagine best geared lightning bds at top of mao ranking were wind. If they try harded yet on wind too they would be in top rankings too.

 

TOI: my battle record last season was 6.92 s - six weeks ago without any ET gear. Let's imagine I would be 25% faster now: 5.19s. Rank 4 in EU

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CooleSau   

I did a 3mio dummy parse yesterday. Let us compare it to a lighnting parse with almost same gear.

 

Lighnting BD with 76 more BAP than I have (2339 - 2263), ET 8 set (I only have ET 5): 3,87 mio dps

 

ET8: 100 + 30 + 35 = 165
ET5/TT3: 100 + 30 + 20 = 150

-> 165/150 = 1,10 -> 10% more F damage -> 10% of 80% -> 8% more overall damage

 

4 f/s is possible https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/328672771322281986/596485775189737492/unknown.png

3,46 f/s in my parse -> 4/3,46 -> 1,16 -> 16% of 80% -> 12,49% more overall damage


-> 3mio * 1,08 * 1,1249 = 3,64 mio

 

I did not use a dumpling (+ 2%?) -> 3,71

 

3,87/3,71 = 104,3%

 

4,3% more damage with 76 more BAP.

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Posted (edited)

I play Wind BD and i've loved the majority of it... besides the bugs that hard resets your tempo, but I thought i'd share my experience with it

DISCLAIMER: This is a rant! Despite most of this complaining, this is not intended as an attack on anyone or to insult/belittle anybody, despite what you may consider!

 

Wind BD is garbage, because people want it to be garbage! I love this spec, because it looks cool, and feels great! However, it's garbage!

 

The only reason lightning is better is because it gets everything it needed, and the awakening buffs were ABSURD

 

Lightning had its design changed to a more braindead friendly design. If I recall, Lightning's Flaming Scourge used to work the same way as Squall does, where every second of tickrate would grant you 3 orbs, Lightning orbs being the mainstay way to use Lightning Flash.

That has now been removed which makes the class much easier to play than it used to, and less demanding.

I think its absurd that wind still has to play under such a condition, despite it's inconsistencies, it's like admitting you know it has faults, but only changing it for one side of the class.

 

Lightning talents have ridiculous ramp, it gets a hard cd reduction to an ability that already has a cooldown reduction. 

Critical Shock giving a crit damage passive on Lightning Draw and Storm Cleave, AND Lightning Draw getting a base cooldown reduction. WHAT!? So... you gave a crit damage steroid, to a class that already has 3 crit damage steroids... -_-

AND THEN, it gives a base AP damage ramp, with Thunder Rolls, granting 8% AP increase stacked 3 times, whenever you use Lightning Draw & Thunder slash

Not to mention the quintessential, base damage of core abilities: Lightning Flicker and Lightning Flash...

So... ...why doesn't wind get this? considering your choice is one of those, I find it ludicrous a single class gets 3 class ramps on 1 tier of talent points. All 3 of them are insanely good.

Meanwhile, wind gets... sigh mediocrity, a crit damage amp so small, that increasing the base damage of an ability gives more dps on parses. Not to mention LIGHTNING'S BASE PASSIVE OUT STATS IT!!! *rage*

Sigh, I cant believe they're going back to this but... an RNG mechanic on Typhoon, that only gives back 1 wind orb when it costs 3 (Yes i know! Wind charge... relax!)

And a 3rd talent so useless, I don't even use it in pvp, which I assume that's what it was designed for.

The only reason to use returning wind, is simply because the 10% damage increase enhance on Rolling Typhoon, tends to float like crazy... when you have a high tier weapon.

 

Squall's design is awful, not only you need to land the attack to actually get the insta 3 orbs, the effect is SO SLOW... mind you with the recent framerate issues, it being slow probably is one of the few things that allows my sanity to remain stable, but in terms of "optimal gameplay" which is something everyone SHOULD be striving for when you're trying to perfect your performance and improve as a player, this is not ideal.

When considering something like, Reaper Destroyer's Execute badge effect, which is a consistent uptime. I think they should make squall be a continuous effect for a strict duration. The buff and the damage tied to the effect should be separate, or shouldn't need to hit a target to get the orbs.

One thing I've noticed about this game, is it's rather uncanny and random habbit of applying snap mechanics in certain situations (It's kind of hard to explain snap mechanics, it's a backend processing tendency in video games, basically its the interaction where the game assumes your position, ahead of time when using effects like gap closers and whatnot), something I consider counter-productive in a game that boasts about "Action combat". Why am I mentioning this, because sometimes, you'll have situations where bosses leap & dash, and your ability will whiff, because the game assumes the target at the end destination... before the even finish the traverse!

An effect like Squall, should be governed around YOU as the caster... not based on if you hit a target...

 

And that's another thing that I noticed with Wind BD... killing blows

If you hit a target, and that ability kills the target, YOU DON'T GET THE INTENDED INTERACTION FOLLOW UP!!

Sunder on a killing blow does not grant you a wind orb

Skyward slash on a killing blow does not grant you wind charge

Rolling Typhoon with Lightfooted Talent, does not grant you movespeed buff

Inconsistencies such as these, will only irritate a player, that's probably something you don't want to do

 

I also noticed that the new passive for wind, Nimble Recovery, functions awfully.

To cite the description: "Decreases cooldown of all skills by 0.2 seconds on EVERY Rolling Typhoon"

Note the operative word here... EVERY. Considering they did the gimmicky effect of 2 hits of Rolling Typhoon, similar to Lightning Flash, it blows my mind that Nimble Recovery and the new badge "Liberty Soul" works so poorly

If Rolling Typhoon hits twice... then this effect should occur twice.

However, it's effect only occurs ONCE, leading to a one second cooldown reduction from Rolling Typhoon on Hurricane Slash & Skyward Slash, WHEN IT SHOULD REDUCE BY TWO SECONDS. (technically greater than two seconds, due to time in a constant state of flux), because Rolling typhoon... hits twice per cast! This can be compared to Lightning's Flash ability, which triggers badge effects twice on condition! *reduces active cooldown of Lightning Draw on every critical hit

Far be it for me to flame whoever made this effect, if I haven't already, this Badge is still great! But I find this irritating, because it doesn't take much to the mind's eye to know the effect would simply be greater, had it worked as described. And before you mention translations and whatnot... I don't care! I work with what I'm given, I'm a data-driven person, and I'm not inclined to translate Korean, or a person's misinterpretations, or a person's mispronunciations/misfires in creation... their human errors are not my responsibility!

 

Grand Vortex makes me question life

"This wind is ruining my hair..." Hmm..

I'm kind of shocked there is no synergy in the entire spec on this ability, shocked... and dissapointed

It's a fun ability, but dungeon bosses have a strange tendency of removing fun and pvp is... well... pvp

 

So, despite me flaming, lets add a little bit of optimism shall we.

For starters, I believe that in the process of criticism (what I'm doing right now), the proponent to propose ideas is equally important as stating the flaws and inadequacies of the current ones. So I will now do this. 

 

What would I propose to make this better?

 

Wind Squall - Separate the buff from the aoe damage effect, Reaper destroyer has something similar, where it's continual damage and it's buff effect are two separate entities... so it's possible! You shouldn't have to land the aoe effect on Squall to grant the wind orbs. I would also buff the effect, so that the Squall refreshes the duration of Wind Charge... but that's just me!

 

Returning Wind - Stop with RNG!

Either make the effect trigger on crit, or make the effect trigger after a certain number of Rolling Typhoons.. for example "Every 3rd Rolling Typhoon grants Returning wind, refunding you 3 wind orbs (which is one free Rolling Typhoon)"

The effect is versatile around Wind Charge, Whirling Scourge... and various other effects, which holds a lot of room for creativity, it would also inadvertently fix the inadequacy of Wind Squall, being slower than Wind Charge's intended tempo

 

Swift Finish - Give it ramp!

If Lightning's passive... PASSIVE, is a ramp of crit dmg, then a talent should definitely be stronger! Go figure

 

Gathering Storm - remove the effect and make something else, or actually consider it's ability and talent apart of wind's design.

I'm still trying to figure out what this ability was designed for. The only thing I've managed with this, is triple aerial in pvp. Spoiler alert, it's not that good, unless you're a Yasuo fan from League of Legends (nothing wrong with that), and want to scream "HASAGI!" when you do it... there is nothing else productive that comes from it

 

To conlude

Wind has insane peaks and opportune damage uptimes, I still believe it's stronger than Lightning in everyway. However, there is a strange, uncanny demand from the player, that is ill-advised in various situations. It lacks adaptability, because it's extremely easy to tilt. Rolling Typhoon fall off will tilt you like crazy

I've been asked by my friends that play BNS, how I find Wind BD, I described it as such:

"Wind BD is better than Lightning BD, but demands more from the player, which is something that isn't very safe to do in a game like Blade & Soul"

I love Wind BD, Zephyr til death!

Edited by kakikookie
Proof reading

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