Snowyamur

U.S. (NA Region) Planning to Ban Loot Boxes + P2W in Gaming

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Posted (edited)

I heard online about how the U.S. Senator plans to ban loot box gambling and P2W, on top of making it illegal to even have these features in any game made or imported in the U.S. To verify this, I found articles on the same subject matter, accessible via the links below:

 

U.S. Senator Introduces Bill To Ban Loot Boxes And Pay-To-Win Microtransactions

 

You Can Now Read The Proposed Senate Bill That Would Ban Loot Boxes In Games Kids Like [UPDATE]

 

Loot Boxes Could Become Illegal In US If New Bill Passes

 

We Shouldn’t Trust The US Government To Know How To Ban Loot Boxes And Microtransactions

 

Game studios would be banned from selling loot boxes to minors under new bill

 

Personally, I'm a bit nervous about what this could mean for Blade & Soul given this game has loot box gambling, P2W, and RNG all over the place, and concerned if NCSOFT might just make the dumb decision to pull this game from NA in response to this "because it isn't making them enough profit."

 

At the same time, I'm happy that loot box gambling is being banned because kids are being exposed to "legal" in-game gambling mechanics that is gambling nonetheless and harmful for them due to risk of addiction. Ever since the whole Star Wars: Battlefront 2 problem that caused all of this, I'm content with not having to pay to excel in a game that I could get better at with time, but I really like Blade & Soul and am hoping this won't cause some executive decision to pull the game from the western market.

 

These articles are worth a read, but for all those among both the NA and EU regions, what do you guys think of this? Keep in mind this could have an effect on the EU region as well.

Edited by Snowyamur

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Grimoir   
18 minutes ago, Snowyamur said:

At the same time, I'm happy that loot box gambling is being banned because kids are being exposed to "legal" in-game gambling mechanics that is gambling nonetheless and harmful for them due to risk of addiction. Ever since the whole Star Wars: Battlefront 2 problem that caused all of this, I'm content with not having to pay to excel in a game that I could get better at with time, but I really like Blade & Soul and am hoping this won't cause some executive decision to pull the game from the western market.

 

These articles are worth a read, but for all those among both the NA and EU regions, what do you guys think of this? Keep in mind this could have an effect on the EU region as well.

A government should not enforce something which deep down is a parents job, especially considering most games with loot boxes and such can be played by minors only upon parents consent, tools are there to prevent minors from this, parents just dont give a s...t and blame everything on the gaming industry.

 

Personally, BnS should just go to become pay2play at age 21+ and that would most likely do the trick. If the loot boxes / trove get removed, get ready to see costumes worth 50$+ like another game which title i dont want to mention.

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Hanuku   

Loot box and p2w/p2c (pay to win and/or pay to convenience) are two different things. Banning loot boxes doesn't mean p2w/p2c would be made illegal as well. The reason p2w/p2c and loot box gambling is talked about together is because loot box is the usual method to extract more money from a good or service associated with p2w/p2c. But if loot boxes didn't exist, corporate heads would seek other ways to still insert p2w/p2c into the game.

 

One method would be to make more legit chance boxes with items worth roughly the same value to players. For example, a box with costumes and only costumes. Or a box with materials of the same tier, used for roughly the same gear tier. These should not contain HP or buff pots, as those are the items people see as "you lost, try again" cards. Another method would be a sort of failure breaking point. A box gives you one or several of the chance items, and also gives an item that if collected enough times, allows you to buy the reward you were looking for initially or something of similar value to you. Pretty much like the lustrous box in the current event.

 

Now, BnS may have some sort of defense in the fact that most, if not all of their chance boxes and chance based events can be accessed freely, just in smaller amounts for the free player. Trove has a free tier, and the current event lustrous box can be bought using HM coins which can be earned in game without paying a cent. Sure, we know that those who pay for more get a ton more chances to get the actual goodies. And at the level it's happening, we do see a marked gap between whales and free players. But still, in a court of law, the prize goes to the smartest lawyer, not necessarily to the one with justice on his side.

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

A government should not enforce something which deep down is a parents job, especially considering most games with loot boxes and such can be played by minors only upon parents consent, tools are there to prevent minors from this, parents just dont give a s...t and blame everything on the gaming industry.

Interesting point you bring up @Grimoir. Nowadays, parents are more lenient, or don't care, when it comes to their children playing videogames. I remember as a kid, when I first started playing my first shooter, which was Return to Castle Wolfenstein, my parents got really mad at me, but over time, they came to accept that this is kind of thing was a norm now. Truthfully, I didn't turn into some violent individual, but them being upset then compared to now just shows how far we've gone in defining what's right or wrong for our children to be exposed to.

 

As for the government handling what's considered the "parents' job," I'd say they shouldn't get involved. It's not their business; it's the family's alone.

 

38 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

Personally, BnS should just go to become pay2play at age 21+ and that would most likely do the trick. If the loot boxes / trove get removed, get ready to see costumes worth 50$+ like another game which title i dont want to mention.

If NCSOFT made it that way, then they would lose out on a lot of players, and not many adults have the time to play videogames. Most of their money [likely] comes from prepubescent children undergoing puberty, so as to dress up their waifus by spending money on the costumes available in the game to satisfy their fetish desires.

 

Games restricted only to adults would push this game to the brink of collapse, and I'm not sure that's something we'd all want.

Edited by Snowyamur

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21 minutes ago, Hanuku said:

The reason p2w/p2c and loot box gambling is talked about together is because loot box is the usual method to extract more money from a good or service associated with p2w/p2c.

I didn't think of it that way. That's interesting to point out @Hanuku; thanks for that.

 

Additionally, from the articles regarding this Senator's bill, there are loopholes as to how he defines "Pay-2-Win" because microtransactions doesn't automatically mean they're P2W. Some people spend microtransactions on costumes, cosmetics, cool in-game aesthetic effects, basically anything that gives neither an advantage nor disadvantage, which isn't explicitly defined in what the bill entails.

 

21 minutes ago, Hanuku said:

One method would be to make more legit chance boxes with items worth roughly the same value to players. For example, a box with costumes and only costumes. Or a box with materials of the same tier, used for roughly the same gear tier. These should not contain HP or buff pots, as those are the items people see as "you lost, try again" cards. Another method would be a sort of failure breaking point. A box gives you one or several of the chance items, and also gives an item that if collected enough times, allows you to buy the reward you were looking for initially or something of similar value to you. Pretty much like the lustrous box in the current event.

I agree. Making it where loot boxes give items that are all satisfactory to a player in some way, without the out-of-luck cards as you described, would certainly make these boxes avoid falling under what the bill declares "unfair gambling" such that they aren't unfair. However, keep in mind that any item that makes a player stronger, that can be bought with cash, is P2W; that can't be dismissed, and boxes like the [Lustrous Box] provide contents that are P2W, which is what this bill is trying to make illegal in the U.S.

 

22 minutes ago, Hanuku said:

Now, BnS may have some sort of defense in the fact that most, if not all of their chance boxes and chance based events can be accessed freely, just in smaller amounts for the free player. Trove has a free tier, and the current event lustrous box can be bought using HM coins which can be earned in game without paying a cent. Sure, we know that those who pay for more get a ton more chances to get the actual goodies. And at the level it's happening, we do see a marked gap between whales and free players. But still, in a court of law, the prize goes to the smartest lawyer, not necessarily to the one with justice on his side.

Interesting analogy you bring up as it relates to law, but law and in-game P2W are two different concepts.

 

I agree, the small defense NCSOFT adds to Blade & Soul is that their events, with the loot boxes and such (Trove, Lustrous, etc.) have a small portion that can be obtained for free. However, the free might not be enough in the eyes of many F2P players, in which this defense is denied by a majority of them.

 

It's a difficult balancing act trying to seal the gap between the "whales" and the F2P players because once a player is able to buy materials for upgrading their character, that's when the gap opens and becomes very hard to close.

 

If anything, NCSOFT should look into making things fairer for F2P players. I can't stress enough how important that will be for the lifespan of this game. Then again, they're greedy... might expect the worst to come.

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Hanuku   
Posted (edited)

NC and all other companies will decide if to make things more fair for free players, or if it's better to change the games they offer in the West, or even simply pack up with their current winnings and go back to Korea, if bills limiting video game gambling are approved, have no loopholes, and are strong enough in the enforcement part. Other than that, corporate heads know plenty of ways to go around laws and other legal hurdles to aim for what they want.

 

Also remember that law and justice are different terms as well. One deals with what is agreed upon in a society by those leading it. The other deals with what's right and fair. Not always do both are served together.

Edited by Hanuku

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Grimoir   
3 hours ago, Snowyamur said:

I agree. Making it where loot boxes give items that are all satisfactory to a player in some way, without the out-of-luck cards as you described, would certainly make these boxes avoid falling under what the bill declares "unfair gambling" such that they aren't unfair. However, keep in mind that any item that makes a player stronger, that can be bought with cash, is P2W; that can't be dismissed, and boxes like the [Lustrous Box] provide contents that are P2W, which is what this bill is trying to make illegal in the U.S.

I wouldnt call the current pouch P2W....to me at least...P2W means you get an advantage that no one else can get by normal gameplay and that simply isnt there. Ignoring the farming time, everything in that pouch can be gotten by gameplay (excepot costumes but we dont count those).

All it does is make the farming time shorter, by oit does not give any advantage you cannot get in game already.

 

Either way if tehy decide to remove the rng boxes / trove, that will hit the f2p players really really hard....because then the wealthier players will just control the market with the tradable materials. because lets face it, those rng events are what significantly drops the prices on market.

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Hanuku   
1 hour ago, Grimoir said:

I wouldnt call the current pouch P2W....to me at least...P2W means you get an advantage that no one else can get by normal gameplay and that simply isnt there. Ignoring the farming time, everything in that pouch can be gotten by gameplay (excepot costumes but we dont count those).

All it does is make the farming time shorter, by oit does not give any advantage you cannot get in game already.

 

Either way if tehy decide to remove the rng boxes / trove, that will hit the f2p players really really hard....because then the wealthier players will just control the market with the tradable materials. because lets face it, those rng events are what significantly drops the prices on market.

Indeed. The p2w argument people make against BnS has never been in the offerings themselves, but their accessibility to free users versus those who pay, and the speed at which a free user can catch up to a paying user per content patch period. People won't mind it much if a free user can catch up in a relatively fair amount of time. But the argument made is that catching up becomes increasely difficult with the quick content patches and the pay for "convenience" events.

 

Note that this is the argument as I see it. Not my own opinion.

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Showta   

Reminder that video games didnt exist until RNG boxes came out and that it's way better to spend $80 gambling for a set instead of $50 to get it guaranteed.

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Garlend   

Well... I heard that the bill would only effect games minors play like candy crush.

 

So making the game mature rated or 18+ could allow a game to still sell loot boxes. (last I heard bout this topic)

 

imo, they already have a system in for it. Called a Credit card. If the parents are giving the credit card info to their children without making the purchase themself is bad on the parents for not keeping that info private. Since kids can not get a credit card legally as far as I know.

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LilyFU   

Some people do not understand the basics.

P2W Has nothing to do with this topic. Governments dont care if the game is P2W. If NCS put end game gear in F10 without RNG is ok for governments (but not for ppl)

The problem with gambling is not the kids. kids is just a easy argument to draw attention to a major problem. 

RNG/gambling is addictive and addiction is considered a disease. 18+ games will not be saved from these new laws.

 

 Vidio games industry It's too big and it makes a lot of Money for companies and governments. It will be very difficult for these laws to take effect. My guess in the next 5 years everything will stay the same. (unless EA or another company do another stupid move like in Star Wars)

Example- When EU started talking about this France was among the first countries to speak and being against it. (and I bet Ubisoft has a lot to do with it)

 

About NCS and this game if by some miracle those laws are adopted in NA/EU I'm pretty sure NCS close the servers (very little population and this game depends a lot on RNG/gambling to make Money)

 

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On 5/24/2019 at 5:01 PM, Hanuku said:

NC and all other companies will decide if to make things more fair for free players, or if it's better to change the games they offer in the West, or even simply pack up with their current winnings and go back to Korea, if bills limiting video game gambling are approved, have no loopholes, and are strong enough in the enforcement part. Other than that, corporate heads know plenty of ways to go around laws and other legal hurdles to aim for what they want.

 

Also remember that law and justice are different terms as well. One deals with what is agreed upon in a society by those leading it. The other deals with what's right and fair. Not always do both are served together.

Good point @Hanuku, and NCSOFT is rich enough to find their ways around laws. While I'm not fully endorsing that fact, it's a fact that may at least keep Blade & Soul in the west should this bill be passed.

 

As for the last statements you mentioned, I'll keep law and justice in mind.

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12 hours ago, LilyFU said:

Some people do not understand the basics.

I'd be very careful walking around saying that @LilyFU. You're treading on some dicey turf when remarking on a general population of people not knowing something without further evidence to back that up.

 

12 hours ago, LilyFU said:

P2W Has nothing to do with this topic. Governments dont care if the game is P2W. If NCS put end game gear in F10 without RNG is ok for governments (but not for ppl)

What? The articles I listed involve this Senator's bill being inclusive of "pay-to-win microtransactions;" they play a huge role in how this game functions and makes money for NCSOFT.

 

I don't understand why there are those still continuing to be in denial that this game isn't P2W. I see it on social media, I see it in online rants, and I see it here. It doesn't make sense why people are this much in denial about something that's clearly there and out in the open.

 

12 hours ago, LilyFU said:

Vidio games industry It's too big and it makes a lot of Money for companies and governments. It will be very difficult for these laws to take effect. My guess in the next 5 years everything will stay the same. (unless EA or another company do another stupid move like in Star Wars)

Example- When EU started talking about this France was among the first countries to speak and being against it. (and I bet Ubisoft has a lot to do with it)

True; that's a good point. The game industry at this point is powerful to overlook laws and policies that bind them, but keep in mind that violation of these policies can lead to a complete shutdown of an industry if not followed.

 

It may just be a game to you but, it means the world to us

 

The Red Cross policy on using the Red Cross emblem in videogames is one such policy that, if not followed, could result in complete removal of the game from the market, as well as the shutdown of an industry if extremes are taken, which shows how serious and binding these laws and policies could be to oversee the power of game industries, or just keep cultural aspects in check.

 

Also, in the next 5 years, sure, things might still be the same, but this game may no longer be playable in the west.

 

12 hours ago, LilyFU said:

About NCS and this game if by some miracle those laws are adopted in NA/EU I'm pretty sure NCS close the servers (very little population and this game depends a lot on RNG/gambling to make Money)

Honestly, if NCSOFT chose to do this, they'd lose a large chunk of their profits because there are many western players still purchasing thousands worth of NCOIN, on top of having Premium. It would be a move that would prove that eastern game industries are only in it for themselves, but at the same time, it would be a move that would forever tarnish their reputation and ruin them in the long run.

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22 hours ago, Showta said:

Reminder that video games didnt exist until RNG boxes came out and that it's way better to spend $80 gambling for a set instead of $50 to get it guaranteed.

That... that doesn't make any sense @Showta. You're telling me I'm better off spending 80 USD to gamble, in which my odds of winning are low, than spend 50 USD on something I know I will 100% get?

 

What...?

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17 hours ago, Garlend said:

Well... I heard that the bill would only effect games minors play like candy crush.

That's correct, and there are a lot of loopholes with this that can be discovered very easily if looking at it as a whole. However, there are minors who play Blade & Soul, and this bill passing would only mean that the game loses out on earning profit from the minors, which is usually more or less bad considering minors spend recklessly.

 

17 hours ago, Garlend said:

So making the game mature rated or 18+ could allow a game to still sell loot boxes. (last I heard bout this topic)

That still doesn't mean western players would want loot boxes. As a western game myself, I'm tired of how RNG is what fully defines this game because virtually every looting system in this game is RNG, but this is because I'm a western gamer. For an eastern gamer, it's the complete opposite.

 

I'd say yeah, if this game is rated 18+, and if it is already, loot box gambling would be legal because we would be of that age of consent, but still. NCSOFT only cares for their potential customers, and this bill slices off the minors, which will have a painful impact, but not a deadly one.

 

17 hours ago, Garlend said:

imo, they already have a system in for it. Called a Credit card. If the parents are giving the credit card info to their children without making the purchase themself is bad on the parents for not keeping that info private. Since kids can not get a credit card legally as far as I know.

Which is why governments shouldn't try to "parent" the parents; that's called an oversight dictatorship. From this fact, it might just be enough to make it so this bill doesn't pass, but I wouldn't know any better; I don't work in a legal firm nor law.

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Nyvva   

The state has a duty to chasten the wicked and refine the righteous. POETIC JUSTICE!

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Hanuku   
8 hours ago, Snowyamur said:

Which is why governments shouldn't try to "parent" the parents; that's called an oversight dictatorship. From this fact, it might just be enough to make it so this bill doesn't pass, but I wouldn't know any better; I don't work in a legal firm nor law.

The state still has a responsibility towards children as citizens of the state who cannot protect themselves. That's why child protective services take over and pull children away from abusive homes. So while a state won't tell you step by step what to do with your child, it has all the right and responsibility to tell you what not to do with a child. There are already laws in place that make illegal for children to gamble. This law here just wants to add video game loot box shenanigans in the same level as actual gambling, to make it illegal for games aimed at children to have such things included.

 

Now, games like BnS are aimed at near adults and adults. It's ESRB rating is M which is 17+. Adults are allowed to gamble, but 17 year olds are still considered minors by the state. This is where the law may see most hurdles. But if approved and passed, games that don't change may see their rating moved to AO (Adult Only 18+), of they'd be forced to change their loot box mechanic. Then again, loot box or not, BnS isn't a game I'd let anyone under 17 to play.

 

Now, the gaming industry will do whatever it takes to prove that loot box stuff is not gambling (because an HP pot is not a "try again" card for them). And that loot boxes do not cause a gambling addiction (because 1000$ in virtual chance purchases is mighty fine and not a sign of any illness). How will they do it? I don't know. But that's what this law will be going against.

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Astarae   
On 5/24/2019 at 9:51 PM, Showta said:

Reminder that video games didnt exist until RNG boxes came out and that it's way better to spend $80 gambling for a set instead of $50 to get it guaranteed.

What?  Video games existed long before RNG...it's only been in the past 10 years or so that people could play these on line.

 

Elder Scrolls 4 -- offline at $30 new, and $10 now -- from 20 years ago.  ES5 -- came out about 5 years ago with RNG/pay to lose.  Before players were able to make extensions and their own content.  With RNG,l all that's been sewn up into sterile packaging where users get no say.

 

If the outfits in BnS were all RNG, they'd lose alot of players -- since with this game, what is "win"?  There is no win, there are only costumes and pvp and alot of players don't like pvp.  Without a wider appeal, who wants to get into eSports?  About the same number of people interested in getting into regular sports.  

 

Maybe you are hitting close to the mark though -- in that maybe todays youth aren't as interested in games -- just opportunities to engage in esports or pvp.

 

But in games like oblivion -- it was real different than BnS...here players get off on dealing out hurt and grief, whereas in previous games, players got off on helping other players and providing used extensions.  But things moved to everything being about money and competition and the fun has suffered accordingly.

 

As for those figures of $80 via gambling vs. $50 guaranteed?  Try more like $500-$5000 on the gambling side.  Remember NCSoft's payoff %boxes are supposedly <1%.   So 100-1000 times higher via the gambling route.

 

 

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LilyFU   
Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Snowyamur said:

What? The articles I listed involve this Senator's bill being inclusive of "pay-to-win microtransactions;" they play a huge role in how this game functions and makes money for NCSOFT.

The Senator's bill It's a perfect exemple of politicians trying to gain sympathy and using the  kids argument for this.

When he talks about Candy Crush Saga and P2W he is being ignorant.

This is not government responsibility. (I can not believe I'm going to quote Grimoir lol) but in this situation what he said is 100% correct. (100% on the topic of P2W. about RNG I do not think it's correct)

On 24/05/2019 at 11:37 PM, Grimoir said:

A government should not enforce something which deep down is a parents job

___________sorry Grimoir by the confusion______________//__________________I think it's better now______________

 

Quote

I don't understand why there are those still continuing to be in denial that this game isn't P2W. I see it on social media, I see it in online rants, and I see it here. It doesn't make sense why people are this much in denial about something that's clearly there and out in the open.

What? i say "P2W Has nothing to do with this topic" I did not say if I think this game is P2W or not. 

But if you want to know I mentioned my opnion about this in another topic. and Yes for me this game is P2W. 

 

14 hours ago, Snowyamur said:

True; that's a good point. The game industry at this point is powerful to overlook laws and policies that bind them, but keep in mind that violation of these policies can lead to a complete shutdown of an industry if not followed.

I was more referring that companies will do everything for these laws not be approved.

14 hours ago, Snowyamur said:

The Red Cross policy on using the Red Cross emblem in videogames is one such policy that, if not followed, could result in complete removal of the game from the market, as well as the shutdown of an industry if extremes are taken, which shows how serious and binding these laws and policies could be to oversee the power of game industries, or just keep cultural aspects in check.

First time I heard about the red cross emblem in video games. and after I read the link I think I do not have enough information to have an opinion. (I have to get more informed about it)

14 hours ago, Snowyamur said:

Also, in the next 5 years, sure, things might still be the same, but this game may no longer be playable in the west.

Exactly what I think. I just do not want to start a discussion about it.

14 hours ago, Snowyamur said:

Honestly, if NCSOFT chose to do this, they'd lose a large chunk of their profits because there are many western players still purchasing thousands worth of NCOIN, on top of having Premium. It would be a move that would prove that eastern game industries are only in it for themselves, but at the same time, it would be a move that would forever tarnish their reputation and ruin them in the long run.

I can be wrong. But I believe that most people that purchase thousands worth of NCOIN is to spend on RNG

 

 

To be totally clear what I think about this is.

RNG/Trove and all this things Yes governments should make laws and regulate this.

If a game wants to have gambling must be 18+ and have the same rules/laws/taxes as a casino/online betting

 

P2W without RNG. I dont like. but No governments has nothing to do with this. and should not intervene

Edited by LilyFU

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Grimoir   
58 minutes ago, LilyFU said:

What? i say "P2W Has nothing to do with this topic" I did not say if I think this game is P2W or not. 

But if you want to know I mentioned my opnion about this in another topic. and Yes for me this game is P2W. 

What does parents controlling what their minor children play have to do with p2w and why do you even link it to that since thats not what i was referring to.

Parents should control what games their kids play, if the game requires 17+, then kids under 17 should not even be there, and if they are thats the parents problem not the game companies or governments.

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LilyFU   
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Grimoir said:

What does parents controlling what their minor children play have to do with p2w and why do you even link it to that since thats not what i was referring to.

Parents should control what games their kids play, if the game requires 17+, then kids under 17 should not even be there, and if they are thats the parents problem not the game companies or governments.

I think you quote the wrong line. but I understood (I think)

Someone has to give $$$ to kids if they buy P2W stuff. (It seems to me that are the parents)

But yes you were referring to loot box gambling. or not? i dont know anymore

Maybe it was this part when you got this information so wrong that confused me.

On 24/05/2019 at 11:37 PM, Grimoir said:

especially considering most games with loot boxes and such can be played by minors only upon parents consent, tools are there to prevent minors from this

What games and tools are you talking? (nvm i dont really care)

Yes for a minority may be true. But for most games this is wrong

And by the way 17 kids are still underage in most countries. SO yes BNS give 0% of these tools that you talking about.

 

So yea sorry to assume that you think if a kid buy P2W things in a game is parents fault. My bad

 

edited:

I think I realized the confusion the way I posted it's a little confusing.

The thing that you quote is not for you nor is it related to what i quote for you. and yes my bad :D

The thing related to you is above the quote not below. again my fault sorry

 

Edited by LilyFU

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18 hours ago, LilyFU said:

I was more referring that companies will do everything for these laws not be approved.

You'd be surprised how many game industries nowadays would try to break a law to make a profit. It's a cutthroat business, and it's a "go hard or go home empty" situation for most game industries today, especially large-scale ones. But thanks for the correction @LilyFU.

 

18 hours ago, LilyFU said:

Exactly what I think. I just do not want to start a discussion about it.

This was referring to about the 5-year thing I replied to.

 

Let's be real here; the game isn't where it should be, and the direction it's going in isn't something that's sitting well with people. The game remains poorly-optimized, events are more-or-less "meh" to a large percentage of Blade & Soul players, and most, if not all systems, are RNG and P2W-centered. If the game keeps all of this up, it'll be gone sooner than 5 years.

 

Like you, I didn't want to admit this nor discuss it here, but part of improvement involves facing the hard facts, and this is a truth that needs to be understood.

 

18 hours ago, LilyFU said:

First time I heard about the red cross emblem in video games. and after I read the link I think I do not have enough information to have an opinion. (I have to get more informed about it)

The article I provided was meant as an introduction to that topic, not the whole explanation. However, I appreciate that you read it because the Red Cross policy is under continuing debate in the game industry, and it's a serious policy.

 

18 hours ago, LilyFU said:

I can be wrong. But I believe that most people that purchase thousands worth of NCOIN is to spend on RNG

To be totally clear what I think about this is.

RNG/Trove and all this things Yes governments should make laws and regulate this.

If a game wants to have gambling must be 18+ and have the same rules/laws/taxes as a casino/online betting

I agree with this. If game industries are going to include RNG elements in their games that involve external currencies, they need to be regulated such that kids aren't "gambling" their mom's credit card away for a bunch of stupid, digital goods.

 

Also, you aren't wrong. NCSOFT makes the core of their money off of whales who spend thousands on gambling through Trove, and that's something many know already. It's a truth, and it's not going away for a long time.

 

18 hours ago, LilyFU said:

P2W without RNG. I dont like. but No governments has nothing to do with this. and should not intervene

Personally, I like Pay-for-Convenience: if I could spend money to bypass stuff that would take me hours to do, I wouldn't mind, and if the game was being handled by a trusted game industry who's proactive and listening to us, I wouldn't mind spending to support them. However, P2W is bottom-line not good when it comes to gaming because wealthy gamers are essentially "cheating" by spending more to make them stronger in-game. Even though it isn't cheating per say, like hacking or using actual, programmed cheats, they're always going to be stronger than the player who goes F2P.

 

P2W continues to plague many videogames to date, but that's because most games are F2P now, and game industries are out there to make money and please their shareholders, not please the players. Plus, how else will F2P games make money? They're free; that's the whole point; microtransactions are inevitable because of that.

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22 hours ago, Grimoir said:

Parents should control what games their kids play, if the game requires 17+, then kids under 17 should not even be there, and if they are thats the parents problem not the game companies or governments.

I agree with you there @Grimoir. The sad truth is that I don't think people really understand how difficult parenting is.

 

It's not about just keeping your kid fed, bathed, and rested, which are the only things some parents do and say, "Well, that's done. Back to Game of Thrones." It's about nurturing their growth and helping them walk through their stages in life. It's about being there for them every step of the way and loving them with unconditional positive regard. Most importantly, it's about being someone they could always trust when times are tough, and being someone they could feel acknowledgement and love from.

 

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On 5/25/2019 at 10:34 PM, Nyvva said:

The state has a duty to chasten the wicked and refine the righteous. POETIC JUSTICE!

Not always. If higher-ups had that absolute mentality, they'd end up as Big Brother.

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Riss77   

Even if loot boxes were banned, NCSoft would just put evething available at a fixed price and that's it.

Then it will be a true pay to win instead of a gamble to win.

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