Newbies/Alts Do Yourself a Favor and Get Raven 3

[Ryunosuke Takahashi]

On 4/29/2019 at 1:58 PM, wefhqweig said:

Honestly, they should've just given Raven 3 with 6+ slots, the Riftwalk feels like a newbie trap. If it doesn't get gem slots, it's trash and they end up needing to evolve one anyway unless they take the gamble and get lucky or mistakenly work on it without knowing about the gem slots then they end up being milked for hammers. 

I remembered getting Naryu Tablets from the main quest, just wasn't certain how many, so I looked it up and you get a total of 25 from Act IX: Chapter 3/11/15. You either need (18 Naryu Tablets, 2 Raven King's Souls and 1 Raven material)  OR  (28 tablets, 1 Raven material and no souls), I'd prefer to just use the 2 souls, but let's stick with 10 tablets. On my latest alt, after doing the extra 3 quests Know Thine Enemy I, The Dead Refuse to Die, and Know Thine Enemy II, I have a 20,000 peaches. You would need to buy 31 more Naryu Tablets to reach Seraph or Baleful 12 twice, which will cost 9300 peaches, and you need 10k for the Syrok and Ujara weapons. Then the rest you can get on your daily grind, learning dungeons as you save up mats and Legendary Elements to evolve the rest of the way. And you would have the Raven 3, which gives you great AP multipliers by hundreds of percent, making it much more enjoyable to run those dungeons while working on your Riftwalk weapon.

Not saying I'd kick someone for using Riftwalk, but 6 newbies with Raven 3 have a much better chance of doing Cold Storage than 6 with Riftwalk because of the difference in damage at that stage of the game. And I noticed that majority of the people I see doing under 70k dps in higher dungeons are using Rift, not Raven. I see plenty of people bragging about doing 200k+ dps with Raven 3, which is also kind of annoying, but at least it's easier to get things done with them.

Bragging about 200k + dps with a raven 3 weapon when my BD could sustain that with a riftwalk 3 weapon (since then it's now riftwalk 6). Yea seems possible a lot of people just don't know the correct talents still, and still use the crap accessories you get from the temple quest line ignoring the old ring/earring from Desolate Tomb / Naryu Sanctum among other things.

My whole point was this while with my method of just ignoring Raven all together you would do the same as you suggested, "daily grind, learning dungeons as you save up mats and Legendary Elements to evolve the rest of the way" and honestly from the story alone and epic quests you make more then enough to buy some elements, soon as they are 55-60 depending on the time of their character created and such there is always a event going on which might offer them easy legendary elements, resulting in a even quicker upgrade so they could possibly jump straight to Rift / Dawn Stage 6 or even higher without ever needing to make the temp. Raven 3.

PS funny story, next time I'll record it while we might of used purple badges (mystic and soul) which isn't anything a new player doesn't have access to (well maybe the soul badge), used the temple quest, draken accessories, rift 3 / dawn 3 depending on our class, my normal party I do dailies with had no issue clearing up to Hollow's Heart. While we might not of killed super fast, doing mechanics flawless we never seen 1 enrage timer. Would a team of raven 3 clear faster, sure long as they have some kind of knowledge about their character, was it needed? Nope.

[Hanuku]

Here's another tip for newbies. Go to skills menu (K), switch the talents tab so you can see your actual skills. Uncheck the "View enhanceable skills" box and look for any skills that lift targets into the air and those that maintain targets into the air. Unckeck all you can of those. Max you can uncheck is 4 as far as I know. If you can't uncheck them all, at least keep whatever skills that can immediately ground a lifted enemy.

 

This is for pve. Not sure how air skills are viewed in pvp. But for pve, all of them utterly suck and are massive dps drops for everyone.

 

Other tips for dps, use lucky dumpling (from crafting guild (L) supplies) and friendship charm (from completing 3 daily challenges). They boost your crit by 350 together among other buffs like accuracy, piercing and a little HP regen. There are other foods that buff stuff, but these two, as far as I know, are the easiest to get.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Hanuku

[wefhqweig]

On 4/30/2019 at 8:33 PM, Kitsune Takahashi said:

Bragging about 200k + dps with a raven 3 weapon when my BD could sustain that with a riftwalk 3 weapon (since then it's now riftwalk 6). Yea seems possible a lot of people just don't know the correct talents still, and still use the crap accessories you get from the temple quest line ignoring the old ring/earring from Desolate Tomb / Naryu Sanctum among other things.

My whole point was this while with my method of just ignoring Raven all together you would do the same as you suggested, "daily grind, learning dungeons as you save up mats and Legendary Elements to evolve the rest of the way" and honestly from the story alone and epic quests you make more then enough to buy some elements, soon as they are 55-60 depending on the time of their character created and such there is always a event going on which might offer them easy legendary elements, resulting in a even quicker upgrade so they could possibly jump straight to Rift / Dawn Stage 6 or even higher without ever needing to make the temp. Raven 3.

PS funny story, next time I'll record it while we might of used purple badges (mystic and soul) which isn't anything a new player doesn't have access to (well maybe the soul badge), used the temple quest, draken accessories, rift 3 / dawn 3 depending on our class, my normal party I do dailies with had no issue clearing up to Hollow's Heart. While we might not of killed super fast, doing mechanics flawless we never seen 1 enrage timer. Would a team of raven 3 clear faster, sure long as they have some kind of knowledge about their character, was it needed? Nope.

A lot of people don't use the correct talents or even play their class well. Improving there would always help, but that's besides the point. I don't get how it's not getting through that big smart head of yours... you're not one of newbies who want to improve their damage, and I guess you don't need to if you can do 200k on your BD using Riftwalk instead of Raven. Would your 200k be higher with Raven 3 instead of Riftwalk 6? Yes it would, so it would have been better for you to use if you need more damage. Do you personally need more dps enough to make it worth getting a Raven 3 weapon? No, you're happy with your 200k using the crappy Riftwalk weapon, good for you. The change would be for a BD using Riftwalk 3-6 and actually wants to increase their dps while doing their daily challenges and event runs until they can get Raven 9 /Aransu / Storm Dragon.

P.S. it is not that fast for all newbies to get this. What the hell is the point in telling them not to take a small step for a better weapon as a placeholder until then? Because it's temporary? So are your BT accessories and Dragon/Tiger Bracelet and VT soul shields, but people still upgrade, augment and add crit to those.

Edited May 2, 2019 by wefhqweig

[Ryunosuke Takahashi]

11 hours ago, wefhqweig said:

A lot of people don't use the correct talents or even play their class well. Improving there would always help, but that's besides the point. I don't get how it's not getting through that big smart head of yours... you're not one of newbies who want to improve their damage, and I guess you don't need to if you can do 200k on your BD using Riftwalk instead of Raven. Would your 200k be higher with Raven 3 instead of Riftwalk 6? Yes it would, so it would have been better for you to use if you need more damage. Do you personally need more dps enough to make it worth getting a Raven 3 weapon? No, you're happy with your 200k using the crappy Riftwalk weapon, good for you. The change would be for a BD using Riftwalk 3-6 and actually wants to increase their dps while doing their daily challenges and event runs until they can get Raven 9 /Aransu / Storm Dragon.

P.S. it is not that fast for all newbies to get this. What the hell is the point in telling them not to take a small step for a better weapon as a placeholder until then? Because it's temporary? So are your BT accessories and Dragon/Tiger Bracelet and VT soul shields, but people still upgrade, augment and add crit to those.

You say your trying to help them use their "time more effectively" but why can't you see you can't have it both ways. Making a temp. Raven 3 weapon then more or less needing to waste time to buy a second weapon, farm for tablets etc.. isn't using your time effectively when if you just focused on 1 weapon you would end up completely bypassing the damage the Raven 3 weapon would offer in less time then it would take you to follow your path of suggestion. You offered your suggestion, I offered mine which I practice on every single alt. character I make. As for your comment about Skybreak accessories and the like depending on what their goal is, how often they can play while using their time effectively, those accessories, soul shield set may be augmented, primer added because it will be their end game for a long time so there is no point in not doing that.

From a casual player point of view or even a new player, your basically asking them to make a weapon that they will outgrow in a few days or even a week (varies depending on how much they actually play) wasting while it may be a small amount, materials none the less in order to do 'decent' damage at that current stage. There really is no point in that. Not to mention they won't see that much increase in damage with the raid weapon until they get more mystic.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Kitsune Takahashi

[wefhqweig]

3 hours ago, Kitsune Takahashi said:

You say your trying to help them use their "time more effectively" but why can't you see you can't have it both ways. Making a temp. Raven 3 weapon then more or less needing to waste time to buy a second weapon, farm for tablets etc.. isn't using your time effectively when if you just focused on 1 weapon you would end up completely bypassing the damage the Raven 3 weapon would offer in less time then it would take you to follow your path of suggestion. You offered your suggestion, I offered mine which I practice on every single alt. character I make. As for your comment about Skybreak accessories and the like depending on what their goal is, how often they can play while using their time effectively, those accessories, soul shield set may be augmented, primer added because it will be their end game for a long time so there is no point in not doing that.

From a casual player point of view or even a new player, your basically asking them to make a weapon that they will outgrow in a few days or even a week (varies depending on how much they actually play) wasting while it may be a small amount, materials none the less in order to do 'decent' damage at that current stage. There really is no point in that. Not to mention they won't see that much increase in damage with the raid weapon until they get more mystic.

Yet I see plenty of people just sitting on Riftwalk weapons and doing less than the already low minimum requirement for dps in the easiest of dungeons.

And I literally say if you're getting a better weapon in less than a week, then don't bother.

Edited May 2, 2019 by wefhqweig

[Hanuku]

Since we are still on the topic of newbie tips, here's another. I see too many people tossing all their HM points into attack power, when 25 to focus recovery will most likely take you much further than that. See, the most significant attack power bonuses come at 10 and 20 points. From 21 to 50, there's nothing but raw points (which add only 1 atp and 2 mystic each) used to reach the next bonus, which is a +100 to attack for 5 seconds when resist is used. Meanwhile, 25 to focus not only gives you over 3000 points to your focus bar to fill your focus (your single strongest attack in the game), it also gives you a really decent +250 to boss attack power for 10 seconds (perfect for a soulburn burst) on a 30 sec cool down. As far as I understand, boss attack power is the exact same thing as plain attack power, but only works on bosses.

 

So really, unless someone can correct me and tells me tossing all points to attack is better than getting more HM focus and boss attack, people should toss 20 points to attack, and 25 to focus. I myself have upgraded my dps by a fair margin by doing the change, and I have my ultimate skill available more often, usually enough to use on every boss on a dungeon, and twice if the fight takes a bit longer.

[Ryunosuke Takahashi]

1 hour ago, wefhqweig said:

Yet I see plenty of people just sitting on Riftwalk weapons and doing less than the already low minimum requirement for dps in the easiest of dungeons.

And I literally say if you're getting a better weapon in less than a week, then don't bother.

Not everyone likes to follow advice, leech or be carried you will have that regardless on whether they follow your advice or mine. You will always have good players and bad players but you beat around the bush a lot telling them all of the options instead of jumping straight to it (refer to below).

Much like any tier of weapon, accessory, soul shield if your going to be stuck at that for a long period of time which is more relevant at higher tiers you'll want to get more bang for your buck by using "both" paths to achieve the desired result. Plenty of factors come into play even at higher tiers. If they don't raid normally and really have no source outside of buying Raven King Souls, Hive Queen Hearts, Grand Celestial Steel (eventually), it will always be far better for that person to run dungeons and go the dungeon route all the way up to the top so that can still pitch in on damage while not stopping their progression to a crawl just to be the raid path like everyone else.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Kitsune Takahashi

[Ryunosuke Takahashi]

4 minutes ago, Hanuku said:

Since we are still on the topic of newbie tips, here's another. I see too many people tossing all their HM points into attack power, when 25 to focus recovery will most likely take you much further than that. See, the most significant attack power bonuses come at 10 and 20 points. From 21 to 50, there's nothing but raw points (which add only 1 atp and 2 mystic each) used to reach the next bonus, which is a +100 to attack for 5 seconds when resist is used. Meanwhile, 25 to focus not only gives you over 3000 points to your focus bar to fill your focus (your single strongest attack in the game), it also gives you a really decent +250 to boss attack power for 10 seconds (perfect for a soulburn burst) on a 30 sec cool down. As far as I understand, boss attack power is the exact same thing as plain attack power, but only works on bosses.

 

So really, unless someone can correct me and tells me tossing all points to attack is better than getting more HM focus and boss attack, people should toss 20 points to attack, and 25 to focus. I myself have upgraded my dps by a fair margin by doing the change, and I have my ultimate skill available more often, usually enough to use on every boss on a dungeon, and twice if the fight takes a bit longer.

No your correct as it is best for players once they feel comfortable with no points in defense should go enough in offense to reach each tier of bonus in most cases 50 (higher as they level of course) and 25 in HM Focus. Not always for the faster recharge on the G / B skill but for just that the added Boss Attack Power.

[wefhqweig]

4 hours ago, Kitsune Takahashi said:

Not everyone likes to follow advice, leech or be carried you will have that regardless on whether they follow your advice or mine. You will always have good players and bad players but you beat around the bush a lot telling them all of the options instead of jumping straight to it (refer to below).

Much like any tier of weapon, accessory, soul shield if your going to be stuck at that for a long period of time which is more relevant at higher tiers you'll want to get more bang for your buck by using "both" paths to achieve the desired result. Plenty of factors come into play even at higher tiers. If they don't raid normally and really have no source outside of buying Raven King Souls, Hive Queen Hearts, Grand Celestial Steel (eventually), it will always be far better for that person to run dungeons and go the dungeon route all the way up to the top so that can still pitch in on damage while not stopping their progression to a crawl just to be the raid path like everyone else.

Hive Queen Hearts are a bit easier to get now. Even if you can't do VT after the nerfs, you can get a nice amount from MSP on the weekends from yellow crystals. Aside from that, if you need to just get Aransu 3 to make finding groups for MSP easier, an easy way is to sacrifice some Lesser Demon Spirit Stones to trade your green crystals for yellow ones in Cold Storage. It'll be so long before I find it worth transmuting oils, I didn't mind giving up some of the spirit stones I had saved, but if it isn't worth it for you then simply don't do it. But honestly, it really isn't that hard to get hearts this way, Storm Dragon is significantly more expensive than just going Aransu and farming some hearts. It's a trade off between mats(raid) or gold(non-raid) and I'd recommend just staying Aransu. If you disagree, can you just tell me how much it costs in Legendary Elements + Tradeable materials to go from Raven 9 to Aransu 9 using Storm Dragon instead of Aransu?

Let me correct myself, I'd stay Aransu if you find it easier to get the extra Elysians/Moonstes/Soulstones/Sacreds instead of the extra gold. Since I play multiple alts, I get mats pretty fast, so I find it easier to go Rift 9 > Raven 9 > Aransu 3 > Aransu 9

Edited May 3, 2019 by wefhqweig

[Ryunosuke Takahashi]

3 hours ago, wefhqweig said:

Hive Queen Hearts are a bit easier to get now. Even if you can't do VT after the nerfs, you can get a nice amount from MSP on the weekends from yellow crystals. Aside from that, if you need to just get Aransu 3 to make finding groups for MSP easier, an easy way is to sacrifice some Lesser Demon Spirit Stones to trade your green crystals for yellow ones in Cold Storage. It'll be so long before I find it worth transmuting oils, I didn't mind giving up some of the spirit stones I had saved, but if it isn't worth it for you then simply don't do it. But honestly, it really isn't that hard to get hearts this way, Storm Dragon is significantly more expensive than just going Aransu and farming some hearts. It's a trade off between mats(raid) or gold(non-raid) and I'd recommend just staying Aransu. If you disagree, can you just tell me how much it costs in Legendary Elements + Tradeable materials to go from Raven 9 to Aransu 9 using Storm Dragon instead of Aransu?

Let me correct myself, I'd stay Aransu if you find it easier to get the extra Elysians/Moonstes/Soulstones/Sacreds instead of the extra gold. Since I play multiple alts, I get mats pretty fast, so I find it easier to go Rift 9 > Raven 9 > Aransu 3 > Aransu 9

Again while I understand what your coming from you need to offer advice that would generally apply to everyone. Not everyone has or works with multiple alt characters like us which means they will take a little longer on material farming, let alone MSP / Gold from multiple characters through Daily / Weekly / Raid challenges. While using the lesser demon spirit stones to exchange for the higher tier of stone that comes from MSP is a relevant option, time effective as well it really isn't a great choice just based on fact you will need it for Oils, you might not at the time being but eventually you will and might kick yourself for using them same applies to players with only the free character slots to work with if they so choose to play more then one.

So lets do the math while it might not be exact since I don't have premium etc. Doing pretty much everything and dungeon which as example say your at Raven 9, it would take you at current market price roughly a week per PTS give or take a day or 2 saving up (I don't know exact gold since I never pay attention while doing this crap on 8 and throw everything gained one 1 for that day). So for argument sake, that is roughly 7 weeks just for the PST (7 needed current price 2156 gold est) if you start at Raven 9 to go to Aransu 9 not including the Hive queen Hearts (98 total) which without much doubt will take you a bit longer and the 105 legendary Elements (1050 gold + the crystal cost unless gotten via event).

Dawn/Riftwalk Stage 9 to Storm Dragon / Exalted 9 while it seems a bit more costly it really isn't if you factor in the fact you can craft your own transformation stones as per my advice in a earlier post. 142 transformation stones need (4 batch and 6 Stones will run 255 gold if you don't buy materials in which case you save up from daily/weekly runs) but for argument sake if you buy them off market at 8.5 gold = 1207 gold, 145 Legendary Elements for 1450 gold via dragon express / free from events.

Do I really need to go on further? Even aside from being much cheaper and in retro spec faster to obtain you can basically go up to Storm / Exalted 5 without needing to farm the dungeons for weapons (can obtain via moon refuge) while you'd still want the materials, after of course you will want to farm all the way up to The Shadowmoor for weapons to finish off your upgrades which with current dungeons being lowered removed the need for most of the mechanics (some wipe mechanics still exist but are easy for all to learn). Then for the cost of roughly 1 week of dungeon running you can then finally switch over to Aransu Stage 9 if you feel the need to and gain all of the damage you want for far much less time invested (in your post hive queen heart farming) and only 38 hearts used total compared to the 98 if you stuck with the raid path.

What people need to understand and also it seems you do as well. When people recruit for example Aransu 3, as long as your either Aransu 3, Exalted 3 or Storm Dragon 3 you won't have issues. I don't know about you but I would rather farm MSP for 38 Hearts instead of 98.

Sorry but I'm a bit too tired to go to MSP and do the math / EST on time involved in your post about just farming all 98 hearts from MSP if you lack a means to get from raid but I'm sure it would amount to a few months or so let alone getting the gold together as a free player that doesn't have the means to sell ncoin in-game to get gold the easy way etc.

Edited May 3, 2019 by Kitsune Takahashi

[Hanuku]

Well, there doesn't need to be any math to tell what's plainly visible. The rift line is cheaper than the raid line but it's also weaker. That's plain there and there's no question about it. You trade cost for power. The subject of the thread is mostly on how a newbie with absolutely nothing should start up their gearing process. An experienced player can do ample amounts of DPS with even the lowliest of setups because they know the class, the game, and how to keep up. A newbie who can barely keep up with a rotation, much less with the changing aspects of how a dungeon boss fight goes, would not be as efficient. Even the easiest one star dungeons can force a drop in DPS if you are too new to avoid all the knock downs and holds most bosses down there still do. Add in the still existing one shot attacks some of them do (iron monkey for example) and a newbie's dps will be on the floor most of the time. Based on my own experience, even at raven 3 with all else coming from story, a newbie won't be able to break the 100K dps mark. They will need at least bracelet and glove and some sort of rotation to do so.

 

Add to this, than an experienced player will hurry to obtain and upgrade accessories instead of weapon, so they can go the cheaper rift option without losing much dps. Maybe they will get help from a more geared alt with resources, or from clan friends. A newbie has to form all this from scratch. And that's where experienced have to step in newbie shoes to see again what being a starter really is. I take myself as an example. Even though I've been around this game nearly since it started, I never really did end game, just doing story and leaving until a new chapter arrived. Lately for the first time I started to go semi serious, doing at least the starter dungeons and stuff. Still I'm in my formative stage (and also gearing several alts at the same time to at least an usable stage), so my dps is still not what it may be if I was better trained or if my character had the defacto correct talent setup (I haven't even bothered to look for those). This means that even with similar or even better gear, I won't do more dps than a trained, efficient player. I can now maintain 200-250K on my main, and around 100-150k on most of my alts, with higher bursts. But I suppose my character could easily do much more with the gear it has. Most newbies, until they learn (should they aim for that), will be in a similar position to mine. So don't expect a raven 3 nor a rift 6 newbie to pull 200K dps just because you as an experienced player can do it.

 

So in the end, if anything, I'd start recommending, instead of getting this or that weapon, to work on learning how to play the character, getting their talents where they will do the most good, and obtaining accessories. This thread has proven that in the right hands and with the right backup, both weapon lines can do well. When I first started gearing up, I farmed Refuge to get the raven material for my raven weapon. I wanted the buffs they gave to use them as an early crutch and I don't mind farming a new rift weapon on the side if I need to. Anyway, that was around 3 days of bud daily farming. But when I discovered such a mat costed a pedestrian amount of gold at F5, I decided to farm for bracelet first and just buy the raven material when I started gearing my alts. Now all of my characters are at raven, and I left the weapons there for the moment while I get accessories for all. As stated, all my characters already do at least what I want from them. So from here I can only go up, even if slowly.

[Ryunosuke Takahashi]

31 minutes ago, Hanuku said:

Well, there doesn't need to be any math to tell what's plainly visible. The rift line is cheaper than the raid line but it's also weaker. That's plain there and there's no question about it. You trade cost for power. The subject of the thread is mostly on how a newbie with absolutely nothing should start up their gearing process. An experienced player can do ample amounts of DPS with even the lowliest of setups because they know the class, the game, and how to keep up. A newbie who can barely keep up with a rotation, much less with the changing aspects of how a dungeon boss fight goes, would not be as efficient. Even the easiest one star dungeons can force a drop in DPS if you are too new to avoid all the knock downs and holds most bosses down there still do. Add in the still existing one shot attacks some of them do (iron monkey for example) and a newbie's dps will be on the floor most of the time. Based on my own experience, even at raven 3 with all else coming from story, a newbie won't be able to break the 100K dps mark. They will need at least bracelet and glove and some sort of rotation to do so.

 

Add to this, than an experienced player will hurry to obtain and upgrade accessories instead of weapon, so they can go the cheaper rift option without losing much dps. Maybe they will get help from a more geared alt with resources, or from clan friends. A newbie has to form all this from scratch. And that's where experienced have to step in newbie shoes to see again what being a starter really is. I take myself as an example. Even though I've been around this game nearly since it started, I never really did end game, just doing story and leaving until a new chapter arrived. Lately for the first time I started to go semi serious, doing at least the starter dungeons and stuff. Still I'm in my formative stage (and also gearing several alts at the same time to at least an usable stage), so my dps is still not what it may be if I was better trained or if my character had the defacto correct talent setup (I haven't even bothered to look for those). This means that even with similar or even better gear, I won't do more dps than a trained, efficient player. I can now maintain 200-250K on my main, and around 100-150k on most of my alts, with higher bursts. But I suppose my character could easily do much more with the gear it has. Most newbies, until they learn (should they aim for that), will be in a similar position to mine. So don't expect a raven 3 nor a rift 6 newbie to pull 200K dps just because you as an experienced player can do it.

 

So in the end, if anything, I'd start recommending, instead of getting this or that weapon, to work on learning how to play the character, getting their talents where they will do the most good, and obtaining accessories. This thread has proven that in the right hands and with the right backup, both weapon lines can do well. When I first started gearing up, I farmed Refuge to get the raven material for my raven weapon. I wanted the buffs they gave to use them as an early crutch and I don't mind farming a new rift weapon on the side if I need to. Anyway, that was around 3 days of bud daily farming. But when I discovered such a mat costed a pedestrian amount of gold at F5, I decided to farm for bracelet first and just buy the raven material when I started gearing my alts. Now all of my characters are at raven, and I left the weapons there for the moment while I get accessories for all. As stated, all my characters already do at least what I want from them. So from here I can only go up, even if slowly.

See you basically get it, by going the dungeon path you trade power for a cheaper upgrade but you also get to upgrade much faster in most cases which was the point. To many people focus on just the weapon because others set requirements going off weapons R6, A3, A9 etc.. in F8 making new players think "Oh, if i only focus on my weapon I can do this dungeon", but they then fail to upgrade what is more important, the accessories and don't realistically do the same amount of damage they could. Raid weapons will always do more damage then dungeon weapons as they should for the amount of effort it takes to not only obtain material but the cost. However, older and newer players really need to stop with the whole nonsense of you must have this weapon to do this content let alone the whole AP crap. Many factors effect your damage output but people need to actually learn boss attack patterns, mechanics and how to set up their characters correctly for each situation first (including switching enhancement points around when you have a soul burn class in party and when you don't).

Prime example of being able to increase / not having a stop in damage is by knowing the attack patterns to say the boss in Starstone Mines. Sure easy enough dungeon but your damage will dip quite a bit if you don't iframe when it does the area wide knockdown effect when he slams his fist on the ground thus resulting in damage lost. Or the mechanic to Hollow's Heart first boss when he jumps to middle, shortly after doing mini shockwaves which if you don't jump or iframe will cut your damage due to being knocked back, list goes on and on.

I'll be honest from personal experience I have played this game since Feb. 2018. I watched a few streamers to get the jist of things including EvilDoUsHarm, that is why I'm so critical of the information these streamers push as honestly I have found better ways to go about things not to mention shortcuts that actually got me to the point that I can teach those same players that help me get started.

Edited May 3, 2019 by Kitsune Takahashi

[Kozuki]

For some class builds like Earth Summoner, Riftwalk is preferred over Raven, and stays to non-raid path even after they get TT gear until NCSoft can provide a better raid weapon for the build. This is recommended since Riftwalk/Storm Dragon/Shadow is easier/cheaper to acquire for new players than group-effort raids, while still provide relevant DPS even to raid contents. Ask around what weapon should your class use first before investment.

 

Also, for good DPS, try to understand how your skills work instead of over-relying on Simple Mode. Some classes have very awful Simple Mode, like Summoner, be it ineffective rotation or skill delay, which will effectively gimp your performance if you mindlessly hold RMB. If your hand really hurts cuz of smashing buttons, consider a macro program instead, which basically Simple Mode with customization. And no, no one ever get banned cuz of a mouse-macro program, except for ones in people's imagination. It is not 'Use-it-at-your-own-risk' anymore. It is "must-have-for-your-hand".

 

Also, having a BT Mystic badge is still better than having nothing in term of DPS, especially when you're new player who will likely have to grind for a while for a VT Badge (around 400-500g in F5 for NA). Many times I see people running with nothing in their mystic badge slot, especially Warlock/Warden cuz they prefer either BW or naked. The BT mystic badge should be given for free through quests now, so I don't see any excuse why not.

 

 

 

[Hanuku]

1 hour ago, Kitsune Takahashi said:

To many people focus on just the weapon because others set requirements going off weapons R6, A3, A9 etc.. in F8 making new players think "Oh, if i only focus on my weapon I can do this dungeon", but they then fail to upgrade what is more important, the accessories and don't realistically do the same amount of damage they could.

This was something, I believe, was dragged from the older versions of the game, where accessories didn't have the buffs they have now. Back then having high AP and some HP to buffer the non one-shots was usually enough to clear most dungeons. I suppose some people simply kept to the AP and weapon custom and it's why you see what you see in F8. I believe this game is going too fast for guides to keep up. We already don't know if the next dungeon update will bring a small change or a massive one to how classes will play or what you should be spending time to gear on. Then there's the oncoming third spec and a lot more game changers, making most guides out there obsolete in just a few months.

 

And even though the emphasis on accessories is not new anymore, I still don't really see too many people (nor the game itself) talking much about it. It's all AP and git gud. SO I feel there should be more info about how to gear and what to get. Why? because we still see quite a lot of underperforming in even starter dungeons. If not for the semi geared players and whales, I'd be stuck with parties wiping at cold storage or at the hearts sub boss in ebondrake lair (a boss that needs a thread on it's own to talk about it), because no amount of knowledge and skill at avoiding stuff and keeping dps up will remedy having low dps to start with.

[Ryunosuke Takahashi]

27 minutes ago, Hanuku said:

This was something, I believe, was dragged from the older versions of the game, where accessories didn't have the buffs they have now. Back then having high AP and some HP to buffer the non one-shots was usually enough to clear most dungeons. I suppose some people simply kept to the AP and weapon custom and it's why you see what you see in F8. I believe this game is going too fast for guides to keep up. We already don't know if the next dungeon update will bring a small change or a massive one to how classes will play or what you should be spending time to gear on. Then there's the oncoming third spec and a lot more game changers, making most guides out there obsolete in just a few months.

 

And even though the emphasis on accessories is not new anymore, I still don't really see too many people (nor the game itself) talking much about it. It's all AP and git gud. SO I feel there should be more info about how to gear and what to get. Why? because we still see quite a lot of underperforming in even starter dungeons. If not for the semi geared players and whales, I'd be stuck with parties wiping at cold storage or at the hearts sub boss in ebondrake lair (a boss that needs a thread on it's own to talk about it), because no amount of knowledge and skill at avoiding stuff and keeping dps up will remedy having low dps to start with.

I could type up something but again it will fall on deaf ears or in this case blind eyes as very few even bother to really check for guides anymore other then mechanics and only then its a handful of players.

Anyways refer players you meet to this thread. For starters focusing on the weapon alone will only increase your damage by a minor amount as such it is more about the accessories and build you use on your enhancement points, talents. Sure you might get legendary accessories from the new raid arc but they are in no means the best for you to be wearing. Those are more or less old pvp accessories. Elemental or the new Mystic Stat is one of the more important stats as it increases your damage, while of course so is critical and critical damage. Instead of using those accessories that are given which lets be honest, are old as dirt and not relevant to today's content, you'll want to head to Desolate Tomb for your Mystic Ring, Naryu Sanctum for the Mystic Earring or head to Moon Refuge and farm 1200 Moonlight Bud for the Skybreak Spire Ring / Earring (or do the raid for it). You will also want to go ahead and grab the Horizon Belt (pve), King Gloves (pve) and the Elevation Necklace (pve). You really should get the Tiger / Dragon Bracelet as well and work on maxing out the bracelet and then ring / earring in that order leaving the others for last. Some may tell you to skip upgrading the King Gloves which I really can't fault them on doing so as Starstone Mines Gloves (Awakened) can last you really til you get the next tier glove. The Elevation Necklace is more of a place holder so upgrade as you see fit, as the one you really want is  the VT necklace for the bonus to mystic and other stats. Do your Dead Refuse to Die, Know Thy Enemy Part 1 + 2 so you unlock your starter Mystic Badge, refer to bnstree.com to preview them as well as soul badges to work towards.

Check F11 players in top rankings for some dungeons for talent / enhancement point builds matching your class / spec and test out and make adjustments as to what suits you. Actually use the Hongmoon Training room to learn most of the boss attack patterns to better prepare yourself to avoid their attacks / effects so you can actually apply your dps, read guides for other mechanics (every dungeon still has them even though players might ignore most). Enjoy the game, don't fret over others that want to comment about your damage so much as players need to remember what it was to be a new player and keep at it. Use events to your advantage especially the soul / pet aura / upgrade events. Leave certain items for last to upgrade just because they will take you 99% of your playtime to invest into making any real progression (mainly soul, pet aura, heart, talisman, gems)

Best advice I could give the newer players coming into the game for the first time as far as gearing besides what was already said in this topic about weapons.

Edited May 3, 2019 by Kitsune Takahashi

[Hanuku]

43 minutes ago, Kitsune Takahashi said:

I could type up something but again it will fall on deaf ears or in this case blind eyes as very few even bother to really check for guides anymore other then mechanics and only then its a handful of players.

Anyways refer players you meet to this thread. For starters focusing on the weapon alone will only increase your damage by a minor amount as such it is more about the accessories and build you use on your enhancement points, talents. Sure you might get legendary accessories from the new raid arc but they are in no means the best for you to be wearing. Those are more or less old pvp accessories. Elemental or the new Mystic Stat is one of the more important stats as it increases your damage, while of course so is critical and critical damage. Instead of using those accessories that are given which lets be honest, are old as dirt and not relevant to today's content, you'll want to head to Desolate Tomb for your Mystic Ring, Naryu Sanctum for the Mystic Earring or head to Moon Refuge and farm 1200 Moonlight Bud for the Skybreak Spire Ring / Earring (or do the raid for it). You will also want to go ahead and grab the Horizon Belt (pve), King Gloves (pve) and the Elevation Necklace (pve). You really should get the Tiger / Dragon Bracelet as well and work on maxing out the bracelet and then ring / earring in that order leaving the others for last. Some may tell you to skip upgrading the King Gloves which I really can't fault them on doing so as Starstone Mines Gloves (Awakened) can last you really til you get the next tier glove. The Elevation Necklace is more of a place holder so upgrade as you see fit, as the one you really want is  the VT necklace for the bonus to mystic and other stats. Do your Dead Refuse to Die, Know Thy Enemy Part 1 + 2 so you unlock your starter Mystic Badge, refer to bnstree.com to preview them as well as soul badges to work towards.

Check F11 players in top rankings for some dungeons for talent / enhancement point builds matching your class / spec and test out and make adjustments as to what suits you. Actually use the Hongmoon Training room to learn most of the boss attack patterns to better prepare yourself to avoid their attacks / effects so you can actually apply your dps, read guides for other mechanics (every dungeon still has them even though players might ignore most). Enjoy the game, don't fret over others that want to comment about your damage so much as players need to remember what it was to be a new player and keep at it. Use events to your advantage especially the soul / pet aura / upgrade events. Leave certain items for last to upgrade just because they will take you 99% of your playtime to invest into making any real progression (mainly soul, pet aura, heart, talisman, gems)

Best advice I could give the newer players coming into the game for the first time as far as gearing besides what was already said in this topic about weapons.

And add to this that Unity stones is a new source of mystic, crit damage and some attack power. I concentrate on yellow (mystic) and red (crit damage), then go about adding attack (blue), plus whatever random effects they come with, and lastly, adding more will give also a combined buff in addition to what they already give. And all of this is from the stones themselves. Unity itself also gives it's own buffs.

[wefhqweig]

22 hours ago, Kitsune Takahashi said:

Again while I understand what your coming from you need to offer advice that would generally apply to everyone. Not everyone has or works with multiple alt characters like us which means they will take a little longer on material farming, let alone MSP / Gold from multiple characters through Daily / Weekly / Raid challenges. While using the lesser demon spirit stones to exchange for the higher tier of stone that comes from MSP is a relevant option, time effective as well it really isn't a great choice just based on fact you will need it for Oils, you might not at the time being but eventually you will and might kick yourself for using them same applies to players with only the free character slots to work with if they so choose to play more then one.

So lets do the math while it might not be exact since I don't have premium etc. Doing pretty much everything and dungeon which as example say your at Raven 9, it would take you at current market price roughly a week per PTS give or take a day or 2 saving up (I don't know exact gold since I never pay attention while doing this crap on 8 and throw everything gained one 1 for that day). So for argument sake, that is roughly 7 weeks just for the PST (7 needed current price 2156 gold est) if you start at Raven 9 to go to Aransu 9 not including the Hive queen Hearts (98 total) which without much doubt will take you a bit longer and the 105 legendary Elements (1050 gold + the crystal cost unless gotten via event).

Dawn/Riftwalk Stage 9 to Storm Dragon / Exalted 9 while it seems a bit more costly it really isn't if you factor in the fact you can craft your own transformation stones as per my advice in a earlier post. 142 transformation stones need (4 batch and 6 Stones will run 255 gold if you don't buy materials in which case you save up from daily/weekly runs) but for argument sake if you buy them off market at 8.5 gold = 1207 gold, 145 Legendary Elements for 1450 gold via dragon express / free from events.

Do I really need to go on further? Even aside from being much cheaper and in retro spec faster to obtain you can basically go up to Storm / Exalted 5 without needing to farm the dungeons for weapons (can obtain via moon refuge) while you'd still want the materials, after of course you will want to farm all the way up to The Shadowmoor for weapons to finish off your upgrades which with current dungeons being lowered removed the need for most of the mechanics (some wipe mechanics still exist but are easy for all to learn). Then for the cost of roughly 1 week of dungeon running you can then finally switch over to Aransu Stage 9 if you feel the need to and gain all of the damage you want for far much less time invested (in your post hive queen heart farming) and only 38 hearts used total compared to the 98 if you stuck with the raid path.

What people need to understand and also it seems you do as well. When people recruit for example Aransu 3, as long as your either Aransu 3, Exalted 3 or Storm Dragon 3 you won't have issues. I don't know about you but I would rather farm MSP for 38 Hearts instead of 98.

Sorry but I'm a bit too tired to go to MSP and do the math / EST on time involved in your post about just farming all 98 hearts from MSP if you lack a means to get from raid but I'm sure it would amount to a few months or so let alone getting the gold together as a free player that doesn't have the means to sell ncoin in-game to get gold the easy way etc.

Dam you guys are killing me lol, I still have to finish reading before replying again, it's too much.

I did consider people who don't play multiple alts, that was the entire purpose of me saying "Let me correct myself, I'd stay Aransu if you find it easier to get the extra Elysians/Moonstes/Soulstones/Sacreds instead of the extra gold. Since I play multiple alts, I get mats pretty fast"

 

One point I saw mentioned was non-raid not requiring you to raid often, so one of the conveniences of going non-raid path is no longer the case. Thanks to MSP there's an outside source for the Hive Queen Hearts. Off-topic, but this is what really bothered me about the event, it gave an outside source for Grand Celestial Steels, but unlike KR, we could not benefit from it. Anyway, you said Storm Dragon/Aransu 3 are the same, when it comes to requirements to have easier access to higher content, but that's not entirely true. Raven 9 for most classes I believe, outdamages Storm Dragon 3. Some people kick if you're not on the raid path so again, I'd rather get Aransu 3 to get access to more content, then work more on accessories and take my time on the weapon. I'm not prioritizing focusing only on the weapon, never said that, just reaching Stage 3 and working on it over time because at stage 3 they're both still pretty good. 

As for what I said about spending your Spirit Stones to get hearts, it would limit how many oils you can transmute later and make even more of your excess Moonstones/Elysians go to waste pretty much, but it's not a huge wallet-shattering, Earth-ending deal like some people make it out to be. I see your point Kitsune, but still it's only to get to Aransu 3, not wasting Spirit Stones to go higher than that. It may not be worth it to you, but I found it worth it when Sealed Hive Queen Hearts were 60g+. Oh well, maybe I will regret not being able to make those 3-4 Sacred Oils for a 120g profit a year from now even though it helped me get to where I wanted to enjoy the game more now.

Aside from that, I still hold the same opinion as before regarding sticking to the raid path. Going Raven or Aransu 3, I felt less of a need to rush Raven/Aransu 9 because I already get the basic benefits at stage 3. The high AP multipliers on your main skills, the static crit rate/damage rather than chance to proc and the better effect. So you can stay Raven/Aransu 3 for a while and work on accessories, rather than feeling like the weapon is more important to rush and upgrade. Just like I said before, I preferred having the raid path for the immediate dps increase over non-raid, and working on it over time, rather than focusing on a big jump over a longer period of time and probably putting less effort into accessories. I probably should've touched on that sooner. And as for costs, it's not cheap either way, going the non-raid path takes longer to see the big results because you have to reach the end of the path before switching over. For comparison, I'll list the amounts I got for each(only the important things). Like you said, you can get some Legendary Elements from events, but majority you're going to be buying. I'll just take off 30 elements from each side and say those were free from events. Hope you're ok with that. Transformation Stones, I put as 7.2g each since that's roughly the price if you craft them yourself, the rest are just a bit under F5 value since you can usually get them for a bit less in faction chat. Doing 2 amounts, for the gold and sacred/soulstone crystals, for 20g Legendary Elements or 10g elements + 5 Sacred & 10 Soulstone Crystals

 

Raven 9 > Aransu 9 (Raid path)

• 3780/*4530* gold in Tradeable mats/Legendary Elements/Upgrade Costs
• 98 Hive Queen Hearts
• 45 Silver Scales
• 460 Moonstone Crystals
• 460 Elysian Crystals
• 2215 or 1840 Sacred Crystals
• 2590 or 1840 Soulstone Crystals
   

Raven 9 > Storm Dragon 9 > Aransu 9 (Non-raid path)

• 4460 or 5610 gold in Tradeable mats/Legendary Elements/Upgrade Costs
• 38 Hive Queen Hearts
• 121 Silver Scales
• 335 Moonstone Crystals
• 330 Elysian Crystals
• 1895 or 1320 Sacred Crystals
• 2490 or 1340 Soulstone Crystals

So either spend time farming hearts and mats, which you can get all of them from MSP, or wait to get the extra gold and farm the Silver Scales and you still need a way to get the the 38 hearts. I'd rather just buy 8 hearts, get Aransu 3 and have a much better time doing whatever else.

11 hours ago, Hanuku said:

Well, there doesn't need to be any math to tell what's plainly visible. The rift line is cheaper than the raid line but it's also weaker. That's plain there and there's no question about it. You trade cost for power. The subject of the thread is mostly on how a newbie with absolutely nothing should start up their gearing process. An experienced player can do ample amounts of DPS with even the lowliest of setups because they know the class, the game, and how to keep up. A newbie who can barely keep up with a rotation, much less with the changing aspects of how a dungeon boss fight goes, would not be as efficient. Even the easiest one star dungeons can force a drop in DPS if you are too new to avoid all the knock downs and holds most bosses down there still do. Add in the still existing one shot attacks some of them do (iron monkey for example) and a newbie's dps will be on the floor most of the time. Based on my own experience, even at raven 3 with all else coming from story, a newbie won't be able to break the 100K dps mark. They will need at least bracelet and glove and some sort of rotation to do so.

 

Add to this, than an experienced player will hurry to obtain and upgrade accessories instead of weapon, so they can go the cheaper rift option without losing much dps. Maybe they will get help from a more geared alt with resources, or from clan friends. A newbie has to form all this from scratch. And that's where experienced have to step in newbie shoes to see again what being a starter really is. I take myself as an example. Even though I've been around this game nearly since it started, I never really did end game, just doing story and leaving until a new chapter arrived. Lately for the first time I started to go semi serious, doing at least the starter dungeons and stuff. Still I'm in my formative stage (and also gearing several alts at the same time to at least an usable stage), so my dps is still not what it may be if I was better trained or if my character had the defacto correct talent setup (I haven't even bothered to look for those). This means that even with similar or even better gear, I won't do more dps than a trained, efficient player. I can now maintain 200-250K on my main, and around 100-150k on most of my alts, with higher bursts. But I suppose my character could easily do much more with the gear it has. Most newbies, until they learn (should they aim for that), will be in a similar position to mine. So don't expect a raven 3 nor a rift 6 newbie to pull 200K dps just because you as an experienced player can do it.

 

So in the end, if anything, I'd start recommending, instead of getting this or that weapon, to work on learning how to play the character, getting their talents where they will do the most good, and obtaining accessories. This thread has proven that in the right hands and with the right backup, both weapon lines can do well. When I first started gearing up, I farmed Refuge to get the raven material for my raven weapon. I wanted the buffs they gave to use them as an early crutch and I don't mind farming a new rift weapon on the side if I need to. Anyway, that was around 3 days of bud daily farming. But when I discovered such a mat costed a pedestrian amount of gold at F5, I decided to farm for bracelet first and just buy the raven material when I started gearing my alts. Now all of my characters are at raven, and I left the weapons there for the moment while I get accessories for all. As stated, all my characters already do at least what I want from them. So from here I can only go up, even if slowly.

At this point, I wasn't referring to the Rift path. I agree using Rift is cheaper than Raven, but once you get to Storm Dragon it can change for some people depending on how you like to play. And one of the main points I wanted to make is that if you go Raven 3, you don't need to work on your weapon as hard, you can focus on accessories. If you're using Rift 3, at least for me, I'd feel more inclined to get my weapon up over anything else. But again, when I suggest go Raven 3 or Aransu 3 because it has better damage, I don't mean to put off learning your class or not work on your accessories. I'm not trying to make a guide on how to learn your class, that should be given and this wasn't intended to be about upgrade priority. I initially intended to say to all those people who have their alts sitting on Rift 3, or all the newbies sitting on Rift 3 - 9 for a while, to just get Raven 3 if you don't plan to upgrade your weapon further soon.

No where did I mean to say focus only on your weapon and to neglect your bracelet, earring, heart, getting the Aransu/Dynasty Badge, and neglect learning how to play your class, and neglect learning boss rotations/mechanics because the weapon is the only thing that matters. Not sure what gave that impression by me saying to just do yourself a favor and get Raven 3 to alts/newbies. And literally stating if you're upgrading beyond that soon, then this isn't for you. 

You are definitely right about the newbies suffering in dps from now knowing mechs, boss rotations or even their own rotations that comes over time and again, that's fine. I'd help people like that when I come across them, I've said that before. But where is this idea coming from that if you work on getting the starting stage of a raid path weapon that you can't work on anything else?

I like the idea of what you guys said, using the raid path to get your weapon quicker, so you can work on accessories, but I just disagree with the big jumps like that. The way I'm looking at it, let's say Non-Raid path is 20% faster, you still need to run the full race before you get anything. But with the Raid path, even though it's slower, you get better damage without having to go to the final stage. So you can run 30% of the way and stop there to do other things. And again, damage isn't everything, but arguing that a newbie won't do much better dps with either weapon isn't a good, you should improve whatever gear you can if it doesn't take much and Always work on improving your playstyle and learning fights.

Edited May 4, 2019 by wefhqweig
Embarrassing Typos

[Ryunosuke Takahashi]

12 hours ago, wefhqweig said:

Dam you guys are killing me lol, I still have to finish reading before replying again, it's too much.

I did consider people who don't play multiple alts, that was the entire purpose of me saying "Let me correct myself, I'd stay Aransu if you find it easier to get the extra Elysians/Moonstes/Soulstones/Sacreds instead of the extra gold. Since I play multiple alts, I get mats pretty fast"

 

One point I saw mentioned was non-raid not requiring you to raid often, so one of the conveniences of going non-raid path is no longer the case. Thanks to MSP there's an outside source for the Hive Queen Hearts. Off-topic, but this is what really bothered me about the event, it gave an outside source for Grand Celestial Steels, but unlike KR, we could not benefit from it. Anyway, you said Storm Dragon/Aransu 3 are the same, when it comes to requirements to have easier access to higher content, but that's not entirely true. Raven 9 for most classes I believe, outdamages Storm Dragon 3. Some people kick if you're not on the raid path so again, I'd rather get Aransu 3 to get access to more content, then work more on accessories and take my time on the weapon. I'm not prioritizing focusing only on the weapon, never said that, just reaching Stage 3 and working on it over time because at stage 3 they're both still pretty good. 

As for what I said about spending your Spirit Stones to get hearts, it would limit how many oils you can transmute later and make even more of your excess Moonstones/Elysians go to waste pretty much, but it's not a huge wallet-shattering, Earth-ending deal like some people make it out to be. I see your point Kitsune, but still it's only to get to Aransu 3, not wasting Spirit Stones to go higher than that. It may not be worth it to you, but I found it worth it when Sealed Hive Queen Hearts were 60g+. Oh well, maybe I will regret not being able to make those 3-4 Sacred Oils for a 120g profit a year from now even though it helped me get to where I wanted to enjoy the game more now.

Aside from that, I still hold the same opinion as before regarding sticking to the raid path. Going Raven or Aransu 3, I felt less of a need to rush Raven/Aransu 9 because I already get the basic benefits at stage 3. The high AP multipliers on your main skills, the static crit rate/damage rather than chance to proc and the better effect. So you can stay Raven/Aransu 3 for a while and work on accessories, rather than feeling like the weapon is more important to rush and upgrade. Just like I said before, I preferred having the raid path for the immediate dps increase over non-raid, and working on it over time, rather than focusing on a big jump over a longer period of time and probably putting less effort into accessories. I probably should've touched on that sooner. And as for costs, it's not cheap either way, going the non-raid path takes longer to see the big results because you have to reach the end of the path before switching over. For comparison, I'll list the amounts I got for each(only the important things). Like you said, you can get some Legendary Elements from events, but majority you're going to be buying. I'll just take off 30 elements from each side and say those were free from events. Hope you're ok with that. Transformation Stones, I put as 7.2g each since that's roughly the price if you craft them yourself, the rest are just a bit under F5 value since you can usually get them for a bit less in faction chat. Doing 2 amounts, for the gold and sacred/soulstone crystals, for 20g Legendary Elements or 10g elements + 5 Sacred & 10 Soulstone Crystals

 

Raven 9 > Aransu 9 (Raid path)

• 3780/*4530* gold in Tradeable mats/Legendary Elements/Upgrade Costs
• 98 Hive Queen Hearts
• 45 Silver Scales
• 460 Moonstone Crystals
• 460 Elysian Crystals
• 2215 or 1840 Sacred Crystals
• 2590 or 1840 Soulstone Crystals
   

Raven 9 > Storm Dragon 9 > Aransu 9 (Non-raid path)

• 4460 or 5610 gold in Tradeable mats/Legendary Elements/Upgrade Costs
• 38 Hive Queen Hearts
• 121 Silver Scales
• 335 Moonstone Crystals
• 330 Elysian Crystals
• 1895 or 1320 Sacred Crystals
• 2490 or 1340 Soulstone Crystals

So either spend time farming hearts and mats, which you can get all of them from MSP, or wait to get the extra gold and farm the Silver Scales and you still need a way to get the the 38 hearts. I'd rather just buy 8 hearts, get Aransu 3 and have a much better time doing whatever else.

At this point, I wasn't referring to the Rift path. I agree using Rift is cheaper than Raven, but once you get to Storm Dragon it can change for some people depending on how you like to play. And one of the main points I wanted to make is that if you go Raven 3, you don't need to work on your weapon as hard, you can focus on accessories. If you're using Rift 3, at least for me, I'd feel more inclined to get my weapon up over anything else. But again, when I suggest go Raven 3 or Aransu 3 because it has better damage, I don't mean to put off learning your class or not work on your accessories. I'm not trying to make a guide on how to learn your class, that should be given and this wasn't intended to be about upgrade priority. I initially intended to say to all those people who have their alts sitting on Rift 3, or all the newbies sitting on Rift 3 - 9 for a while, to just get Raven 3 if you don't plan to upgrade your weapon further soon.

No where did I mean to say focus only on your weapon and to neglect your bracelet, earring, heart, getting the Aransu/Dynasty Badge, and neglect learning how to play your class, and neglect learning boss rotations/mechanics because the weapon is the only thing that matters. Not sure what gave that impression by me saying to just do yourself a favor and get Raven 3 to alts/newbies. And literally stating if you're upgrading beyond that soon, then this isn't for you. 

You are definitely right about the newbies suffering in dps from now knowing mechs, boss rotations or even their own rotations that comes over time and again, that's fine. I'd help people like that when I come across them, I've said that before. But where is this idea coming from that if you work on getting the starting stage of a raid path weapon that you can't work on anything else?

I like the idea of what you guys said, using the raid path to get your weapon quicker, so you can work on accessories, but I just disagree with the big jumps like that. The way I'm looking at it, let's say Non-Raid path is 20% faster, you still need to run the full race before you get anything. But with the Raid path, even though it's slower, you get better damage without having to go to the final stage. So you can run 30% of the way and stop there to do other things. And again, damage isn't everything, but arguing that a newbie won't do much better dps with either weapon isn't a good, you should improve whatever gear you can if it doesn't take much and Always work on improving your playstyle and learning fights.

Last post and all I really can say is this, I'm not trying to be mean but clearly after checking out some characters your methods work for you but it is much slower then my methods. Either way you clearly have your own play style and way of thinking and like most older players stick to your guns. Have fun with whatever it is you do, I've said my peace in this thread and offered advice to those who read this. While yes my main still needs work, if you need help or advice feel free to contact me in-game NA- Ryunosuke Takahashi.

Edited May 4, 2019 by Kitsune Takahashi

[Lyn Thunderfox]

Doesn't really matter, if we get what Russia get the 15th May (which is often the case), Baleful/Seraph path will be deleted so not like it's going to matter anymore. Technically, that means the little waste of time for Naryu tablets will also disappear so, good news anyway.

[Ryunosuke Takahashi]

10 hours ago, Lyn Thunderfox said:

Doesn't really matter, if we get what Russia get the 15th May (which is often the case), Baleful/Seraph path will be deleted so not like it's going to matter anymore. Technically, that means the little waste of time for Naryu tablets will also disappear so, good news anyway.

While they might of been removing that path which we don't know if they will remove it from our version, they still need to offer a choice. While it would cut down on materials wasted, in this case naryu tablets everything in this topic or in general that was said would still apply about the raid path offering power for higher / slower upgrades, non raid path offering faster / cheaper upgrades with lower power.

[Lyn Thunderfox]

Il y a 1 heure, Kitsune Takahashi a dit :

While they might of been removing that path which we don't know if they will remove it from our version, they still need to offer a choice. While it would cut down on materials wasted, in this case naryu tablets everything in this topic or in general that was said would still apply about the raid path offering power for higher / slower upgrades, non raid path offering faster / cheaper upgrades with lower power.

I suppose they will make it as "Unrefined weapon" -> Rift/Dawn/Raven.

 

You can buy the unrefined weapon on the same npc you buy the Dark/Light boxes but it costs 5 Naryu tablets.

[Hanuku]

2 hours ago, Lyn Thunderfox said:

I suppose they will make it as "Unrefined weapon" -> Rift/Dawn/Raven.

 

You can buy the unrefined weapon on the same npc you buy the Dark/Light boxes but it costs 5 Naryu tablets.

I'd say more like Unrefined>Rift/Dawn, and make them able to be converted to raven from 1 to 3 using the same material as now. But by this stage, I wouldn't be surprised if they just gave us a raven weapon box. That weapon has fallen that low in the food chain already...

[Lyn Thunderfox]

Except upgrading from Raven 3 is a newbie trap, same as for upgrading Tiger/Divine Dragon bracelet to max. I don't think a Raven box would be a good idea in my opinion.

[Hanuku]

It's a newbie trap indeed. I'd be happy if they toss the weapon and a decent cost reduction my way. I mean, raven is already third tier from top to bottom. While it's cool to walk the path others walked (looks fair on paper too), the weapon is not used for current top tier content anymore. Then again, I was never a fan of dividing the pve paths into dungeon and raid. But that's just me and my view...

[Ryunosuke Takahashi]

1 hour ago, Lyn Thunderfox said:

Except upgrading from Raven 3 is a newbie trap, same as for upgrading Tiger/Divine Dragon bracelet to max. I don't think a Raven box would be a good idea in my opinion.

While I can't disagree about the Raven 3 upgrade would be a newbie trap. I can't really say the same for Tiger / Divine Dragon being a trap. One should be maxing this bracelet out as soon as they get it for the best bang for their buck in a manner of speaking. You have to factor in the fact that not everyone can afford or have the means to buy ncoin in order to buy the fragments from the store when they go on the daily deal, so without the bracelet up there those same players will have issues doing circle of sundering partially or fully in order to get the next tier bracelet (hellion) let alone have people really take them to Sandstorm Temple for the achievement. However, I do believe that might not really be much of a issue given time if they follow suit with how they did the whole Draken Accessory set. Eventually it will be moved to Moon Refuge, no achievement required and no unrefined required but that might be a good 6 months or so.