Moon Refuge suggestions

[Hanuku]

Hello. I suppose there have been a few threads about this already, but with the way this forum moves, some threads may be buried and forgotten, and I don't like bringing up necros (and my necro threshold is kind of short as well). So, I'll start my own "let's make moon refuge gr..." Nah, let's not use that overused phrase anymore. Let's make it a bit more worth and pleasing to play in with some QoL changes.

 

First. The repeat quest. Why can't we have it as an area auto quest just like in Basin? I mean, you enter the place, quest pops in. You do the kills and quest auto completes, gives you the reward, and restarts pretty much like the peach quests in Basin works. Yes, sure, Basin quests rotate, and this case would be repeating the same thing ad infinitum. BUT we'd save the whole running to NPC part so we can farm in the more remote areas of the place without worrying about straying too far from the NPC. The daily needs no change at all since you pick it when you come in. Another alternative would be to add more of the yellow epic jump places to make moving around easier.

 

Second. Let's do something about the meager exp points mobs give? They are level 55-56, so most won't give more than 100 xp. If these guys can give at least 500 xp, we'd be doing low levels a favor. I won't ask for 1000 xp because I feel that would be a tad too much, unless it's made so they only give that much to players below a certain level. Like HM 14 to be on line with the cheap exp charms.

 

Third and last for now. The side instances. Why cache village needs to have pvp on it? And where are the so promised nice prizes I heard about? Been there a couple of times and I only get peculiar promises boxes. Has anyone ever gotten anything else? Maybe throwing in a few more octagonal gems into the mix would help (or even heptas or hexas to have some transmute material). And what's the point on the Murky whatever place boss having and enrage timer? I mean, this should be a boss for newbies, and while I know it should accommodate many players, in all of my experiences, the most I've seen fighting this guy at a time was 3 people. YES. 3!!! My very first experience was a 2man run. No idea how we killed it, though. But yeah, my point is, remove the enrage timer.

 

In closing for now, I like the place. It has a pleasing, calming setting to it that doesn't hurt the eyes. As it is, I still like to farm in there. But a QoL boost wouldn't hurt anyone.

[Dexyn]

Somehow I feel like Panda Village mobs were supposed to drop actual gold bricks you can sell to npc (like the ones we get from dailies) given how all the enemies are carrying a backpack obviously filled with gold, they use gold to attack you and there's gold laying around everywhere but it was a last minute decision to change it and now it drops the ever-so-disappointing and boring peculiar chests.

Raw gold would definitely be something worth fighting for, but these chests? Nah bro.

Edited April 24, 2019 by Dexyn

[Dru Lockheart]

Running to NPC? You can collect the quest through the quest log and retake Zavnar's Zeal through the letter in the journal (while in Moon Refuge area).

[wefhqweig]

54 minutes ago, Dru Lockheart said:

Running to NPC? You can collect the quest through the quest log and retake Zavnar's Zeal through the letter in the journal (while in Moon Refuge area).

While I appreciate it, even that is tedious, I often forget to retake the quest after turning in. I think it'd be much more efficient as a dynamic quest that pops up again every time you turn in if that's possible, or maybe an unlimited quest where your reward is based on how many kills you get. For example, 20 kills you 1 chests, 40 kills you get 2 chests, 80 kills you get 4, etc.

[Hanuku]

9 hours ago, Dru Lockheart said:

Running to NPC? You can collect the quest through the quest log and retake Zavnar's Zeal through the letter in the journal (while in Moon Refuge area).

Yeah. I noted that recently. It DOES beat running back to NPC. Sure. A dynamic recurring quest would be the nicest thing for the lazy like me. But this is a good second place for now.

 

[Astarae]

19 hours ago, wefhqweig said:

While I appreciate it, even that is tedious, I often forget to retake the quest after turning in.

You realize it is the same effort for each.  I.e. you click on the little document icon in your active quests display on the right side of the screen.  Once you have closed the quest by getting the reward from clicking on the icon, you learn to hit 'j' immediately to bring up your journal and go to the "quest letters" section and look down under the "Call from the Realms" section to find Zavnar's quest, click on it's icon and spam 'f' until your journal closes.  Sometimes you have to repeat the action as any interruption, like from an attack, will knock you out of the acceptance process.

[Viblo]

Yep, +1 to this. I'd also like to mention that the Moonlight Bud merchant needs extreme changes.

• Raven King's Animus requires 120 Moonlight Buds, an item that is usually trashed in Skybreak Spire PUGs and isn't any expensive on the Marketplace. This should honestly cost like 10 Moonlight Buds from the merchant.
  • This also applies to Raven King's Soul, worth 30 Moonlight Buds.
• Naryu Sanctum Bracelet Chest requires 120 Moonlight Buds. Are you even aware this is free if you complete the "Know Thine Enemy: Part 2" quest?
• Sky Inheritance Ring Chest, King Gloves - Stage 1, Skypearl Apex Chest - Stage 1, and Skysunder Elevation Chest - Stage 1 are kind of alright, but could use a small reduction in price. These are all from older accessory tiers, so asking for 120 Moonlight Buds is a bit steep.
• Skybreak Ring Chest and Skybreak Earring Chest. They are guaranteed from Skybreak Spire, so why even keep them here? You're provided a Riftwalk/Dawnforged - Stage 3 weapon from the latest side story, which is more than enough to run Skybreak Spire. Replace the Skybreak Chests with Darkstorm Necklace Chests, if anything.

Also, add untradable Soulstone Crystal, Sacred Crystal, Moonstone Crystal, and Elysian Crystals as an exchange option. You got players quitting due to the pressure of constantly having to log in daily, and unlike games like Black Desert Online, you can actually make up for lost play time by just spending extra hours grinding. Give us that option in something like Moon Refuge and we'd all be happy. And don't make it RNG-based.

[wefhqweig]

5 hours ago, Astarae said:

You realize it is the same effort for each.  I.e. you click on the little document icon in your active quests display on the right side of the screen.  Once you have closed the quest by getting the reward from clicking on the icon, you learn to hit 'j' immediately to bring up your journal and go to the "quest letters" section and look down under the "Call from the Realms" section to find Zavnar's quest, click on it's icon and spam 'f' until your journal closes.  Sometimes you have to repeat the action as any interruption, like from an attack, will knock you out of the acceptance process.

You failed to realize the difference, it's not the same effort.  And you don't speak for me or some others saying that we'll learn to immediately hit J and remember to accept the quest.

• Press J, go to Quest Letters, scroll to the bottom, select Zavnar Zeal, accept it, and remembering to do so at that because there's no notice to warn you that you need the quest again.
• Repeatable dynamic quest that pops up on its own, so it's much more noticeable, you can easily just click and accept right after turning in.
• A quest that you have to turn in much less frequently because it takes any number of kills rather than 20 every 2 minutes. 

Idk about you, but I'd take the last 2 options hands down. I will also mention, it's not a necessity, it's not a change I'll beg for or complain about not getting, I'm fine with the system as it is. I'm only suggesting something to make it more convenient before some smartass tries to say I'm being entitled.

Edited April 25, 2019 by wefhqweig

[Hanuku]

4 hours ago, Viblo said:

Yep, +1 to this. I'd also like to mention that the Moonlight Bud merchant needs extreme changes.

• Raven King's Animus requires 120 Moonlight Buds, an item that is usually trashed in Skybreak Spire PUGs and isn't any expensive on the Marketplace. This should honestly cost like 10 Moonlight Buds from the merchant.
  • This also applies to Raven King's Soul, worth 30 Moonlight Buds.
• Naryu Sanctum Bracelet Chest requires 120 Moonlight Buds. Are you even aware this is free if you complete the "Know Thine Enemy: Part 2" quest?
• Sky Inheritance Ring Chest, King Gloves - Stage 1, Skypearl Apex Chest - Stage 1, and Skysunder Elevation Chest - Stage 1 are kind of alright, but could use a small reduction in price. These are all from older accessory tiers, so asking for 120 Moonlight Buds is a bit steep.
• Skybreak Ring Chest and Skybreak Earring Chest. They are guaranteed from Skybreak Spire, so why even keep them here? You're provided a Riftwalk/Dawnforged - Stage 3 weapon from the latest side story, which is more than enough to run Skybreak Spire. Replace the Skybreak Chests with Darkstorm Necklace Chests, if anything.

Also, add untradable Soulstone Crystal, Sacred Crystal, Moonstone Crystal, and Elysian Crystals as an exchange option. You got players quitting due to the pressure of constantly having to log in daily, and unlike games like Black Desert Online, you can actually make up for lost play time by just spending extra hours grinding. Give us that option in something like Moon Refuge and we'd all be happy. And don't make it RNG-based.

Cool suggestions. Though, how do you get a raven king animus/energy/ferocity through F5? (EDIT: eh, just found it. Through sealing.... And with F5 still broken they are hard to find) I have started to take this game semi seriously just recently (after years of just doing story and wasting money on F10 outfits and shape changers, kek), so I'm interested in ways to get my alts into at LEAST 100K DPS. And yeah, farming buds for 2-3 days just to be able to make a new weapon into a raven 3 can be fun for the first two characters, but boring and tedious for all the rest (I have 7 characters atm -_-). So anything to speed it up, without me having to derp into raids (not confident enough about it yet).

 

Though you know what that bud merchant could also use? Aransu soul shields(EDIT2 AND I spoke too soon. they ARE already there -_-). They are becoming the new starter gear (I see a lot of HM13's wearing that). People are already discarding raven soul shield for it. And since orange story gives 5 pieces and the last 3 come from the initial raids mission (and MAY come as story rewards when Act 10 comes), more aransu stuff could populate the bud vendor. We could also use some starter soul badges too, while keeping the good ones in ToI.

Edited April 25, 2019 by Hanuku

[Astarae]

On 4/25/2019 at 12:30 PM, wefhqweig said:

You failed to realize the difference, it's not the same effort. 

Once you realize that retaking the quest is accessible on the Quest letters page, its a matter of clicking on the "letter" icon in both cases -- the exact same icon in the exact same way.  The only different is the location of one is usually on the right of your screen and the other is on another page.  There is no message telling you that you need to press either button again -- nothing is documented, either way, unfortunately it adheres to the same "intuitive" (*cough*) interface that is used throughout.  You either learn to use that interface, or you don't.  Either way, its the same effort.

 

As for your suggestions -- I'm not against them, but I would ask if you could give an example to something similar that is already in the game?  I.e. an auto-renewed quest that pops up periodically.  I can't think of any place I've seen that, and find it unlikely they'd implement such a dynamic just to make a players life easier -- there's a host of changes they could make to make the user interface "user friendly", but haven't.  I just assumed that they made it more complicated because they don't want to make it easier for players to play the game "faster", as so much of the game is about requiring the player to engage in tedious, boring and repetitive moves and about eliminating the ability for the player to automate such tasks.  It seems to be a 'feature' of what arcade-game devs thought (or think) players enjoy or tolerate with regard to mindless and brainless games where memorizing the exact when and where of specific moves is considered the highest ability in the game.

On 4/25/2019 at 12:30 PM, wefhqweig said:

And you don't speak for me or some others saying that we'll learn to immediately hit J and remember to accept the quest.

• Press J, go to Quest Letters, scroll to the bottom, select Zavnar Zeal, accept it, and remembering to do so at that because there's no notice to warn you that you need the quest again.
• Repeatable dynamic quest that pops up on its own, so it's much more noticeable, you can easily just click and accept right after turning in.
• A quest that you have to turn in much less frequently because it takes any number of kills rather than 20 every 2 minutes. 

Idk about you, but I'd take the last 2 options hands down. I will also mention, it's not a necessity, it's not a change I'll beg for or complain about not getting, I'm fine with the system as it is. I'm only suggesting something to make it more convenient before some smartass tries to say I'm being entitled.

As for whether or not you are capable of learning where something is in the current interface, you are right in that I cannot speak for you.  Usually most players will find that after doing something "some number of times" or "multiple times", they will be able to learn the action and be able to repeat it without too much thought.  Sorry, if  I presumed that wouldn't be difficult for most, but one could have to deal with those who watch a video, once, and believe its possible to be an expert the mechanics of that dungeon.  I find that rather difficult,  so I can maybe relate to having things be difficult when others can do such things without a second thought.

[Hanuku]

23 minutes ago, Astarae said:

but I would ask if you could give an example to something similar that is already in the game?  I.e. an auto-renewed quest that pops up periodically.

If I remember, Not quite Junghado, a quest in Mushin tower, repeats? Or do you have to return to the NPC for that one? Would have to check it. But I think it's quite possible to implement an auto repeating quest. Though on the other hand, I'm already getting used to hit J once I finish the refuge quest. It has sped up things for me in there (and I have 7 characters I need buds for, so I NEED the speed up). Then again, this thread is about wishing for something. Not really demanding it. What I would actually ask for first is to fix bugs and causes of lag. That's an always first priority request from any gamer to any game.

[Astarae]

2 hours ago, Hanuku said:

If I remember, Not quite Junghado, a quest in Mushin tower, repeats?

It's not a quest, exactly -- or at least not in the same way.  You can enter the initial room in one of a few ways, I usually take the door that's behind you when you are looking at the posting board where you read about pvp quests.  Then you get teleported to the room where you see a portly guy and a lynn who you talk to to say what floor you want to go to.   I suppose you could look at that as the start of the quest sequence.  However its not really automatic, they've just hidden the taking/start of the quest into you telling the lynn what floor you want to goto.   That's the point -- this game doesn't seem to have much in the way of auto-repeat quests.  It has quests that start when you activate some "trigger", like talking to someone or killing someone or entering an area.   But in all of those cases, it  involves you taking some action.  For a quest like gathering kills, in that area, the kills can go toward 1 or 2 quests at the same time -- one is the daily, and one is the repeatable, but AFAIK, all quests that you can repeat have to have some start and stop point so it can flag beginning and end. 

 

While it would be convenient to have the quest "renewed" automatically, that would effectively give you "loot" for simply walking through an area and killing enemies -- like automatically giving you something with every enemy killed.  But the game already does something like that in that it gives you money and experience for enemies killed.  AFAIK, that's the only quest that you don't have to enter or exit and that has no defined start/stop points, but that was sorta what I was getting at.  All of the quests, as they are currently laid out and defined have to have some start and stop point and have to be for actually doing something (vs. rewarded for things you you have already done).  So it would, at least, be inconsistent with other quests to automatically give rewards for kills where you haven't taken or activated or started some specific quest.

 

Certainly they could make the UI more user-friendly, but as I mentioned above, that would be inconsistent with current design. 

 

The UI is sorta like the original design or layout of the keys on a typewriter or keyboard (the standard QWERTY arrangement).  IBM went with that design because it WAS difficult and was deliberately designed to *DE*optimize typing speed.   They tried several designs, but when they first designed it, it was done with not-very-reliable mechanical parts that could easily jam.  They found that if they optimized things, people would type too fast and the keys would be more likely to jam.  So it the original design (that we still used today) was done because it was a bad design that slowed people down.  If the BnS UI was optimized, people could likely do alot of these time-consuming and tedious tasks in 2 or 3 times the speed -- but that would allow people to progress to fast, too easily.  Thus the design is created to slow down progression and how fast you can go through the game.   Unfortunately, such anti-player techniques usually influence a players overall perception of the product, negatively and reduce the 'fun' level and cause people to give up playing it more quickly.  Thus the game's popularity falls off soon than it might otherwise.

 

Game manufacturers can't disrespect users and not expect it to have some effect.  Only in a constrained or limited market where players don't have other options can such techniques be used where the benefits might outweigh the deficits.  

 

Indeed, that could be a major flaw in the overall game strategy by a game manufacturer that started in area with a limited or constrained market -- if they introduce it into an area without the same constraints, they might find such decisions more heavily affect market share and player satisfaction.

Quote

Or do you have to return to the NPC for that one?

There, as I sorta hinted at -- that quest benefits by the fact that you are going in a loop, up the tower, then back down at end, then go by the lynn to specify which floor and you start again.

Quote

Would have to check it. But I think it's quite possible to implement an auto repeating quest. Though on the other hand, I'm already getting used to hit J once I finish the refuge quest. It has sped up things for me in there

That's why I said you get used to pressing 'j' right after finishing -- most people do, but I got chided for presuming that most people would be able to, so ya never know .

Edited April 28, 2019 by Astarae

[Hanuku]

9 hours ago, Astarae said:

snip

Know that each person is their own universe. Most rules apply to everyone. But not everything does. :)

[Ryunosuke Takahashi]

On 4/25/2019 at 1:56 PM, Viblo said:

Yep, +1 to this. I'd also like to mention that the Moonlight Bud merchant needs extreme changes.

• Raven King's Animus requires 120 Moonlight Buds, an item that is usually trashed in Skybreak Spire PUGs and isn't any expensive on the Marketplace. This should honestly cost like 10 Moonlight Buds from the merchant.
  • This also applies to Raven King's Soul, worth 30 Moonlight Buds.
• Naryu Sanctum Bracelet Chest requires 120 Moonlight Buds. Are you even aware this is free if you complete the "Know Thine Enemy: Part 2" quest?
• Sky Inheritance Ring Chest, King Gloves - Stage 1, Skypearl Apex Chest - Stage 1, and Skysunder Elevation Chest - Stage 1 are kind of alright, but could use a small reduction in price. These are all from older accessory tiers, so asking for 120 Moonlight Buds is a bit steep.
• Skybreak Ring Chest and Skybreak Earring Chest. They are guaranteed from Skybreak Spire, so why even keep them here? You're provided a Riftwalk/Dawnforged - Stage 3 weapon from the latest side story, which is more than enough to run Skybreak Spire. Replace the Skybreak Chests with Darkstorm Necklace Chests, if anything.

Also, add untradable Soulstone Crystal, Sacred Crystal, Moonstone Crystal, and Elysian Crystals as an exchange option. You got players quitting due to the pressure of constantly having to log in daily, and unlike games like Black Desert Online, you can actually make up for lost play time by just spending extra hours grinding. Give us that option in something like Moon Refuge and we'd all be happy. And don't make it RNG-based.

It is free but confirmed that the quest bracelet still requires a brilliant key to open unless the recent changed it since as of the last patch / update it wasn't changed like they did with the bracelet box drop from the dungeon itself and Moon Refuge. Older accessory tiers? Hellion might now be the new standard for most players but it isn't exactly old enough to warrant it to be lowered since players can farm the area which it is meant to be the new Celestial Basin. Seraph stage 12 / Baleful Stage 12 is also more then enough to run skybreak. It just gives players more options. I wouldn't mind seeing the VT necklace added though for maybe 900 moonlight bud or more just because for most it will be end game for awhile til Temple / Prophecy.

As for adding the crystals to the exchange, it can be good but also would then almost render Basin worthless considering outside of a few things, everything else is in Moon Refuge which might be what they are doing overtime. Anyways, you can still farm basin for the treasure chest drops while turning in peaches for treasure pouches etc.. So many sources for crystals.

Honestly, while I'm not entirely lazy I do agree that having it as a auto accepting reoccurring quest as you finish would be nice since it is afterall the new evolved basin. I would also strongly suggest to raise the experience gained from the mobs so it is a true level 60 zone, then maybe make the experience charms RNG based from the normal moonlight chest (even though it is just 10,000 experience).