NorbertTheOpinionated

Legends Reborn Event is Diabolical

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Kozuki   
1 hour ago, CharlieIsBoss said:

This is how you survive for the long haul once you realize what is really going on. YOU CANNOT HAVE THE NEWEST SHINY THING WITHOUT PAYING A TON OF MONEY. as soon as you lose the NEED for that newest shiny thing NAO!! you basically have beat the game. If you don't like what the game is doing  NEWS FLASH! you are in charge, take a break....

A lot of players have taken your advice wholeheartedly and taken a break from this game whenever they face trouble, so we are gonna have the last final merge incoming.

The one that should take a break is not players, but NCWest. Too many times they committed blunders, and every single time, some players left them cuz they did not want to fully mitigate their mistakes. If they believe that they can ditch remaining F2P and dolphins to cater whales only, hoping this game will survive with just whales playing with each other, then by all means, go ahead.

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RavTH   
On 13/04/2019 at 2:59 AM, Grimoir said:

This analogy makes no sense at all. The problem is not that people spend money to get a bit ahead of others. I will tell you what the issue is, the issue are actually the casual players.

you want bns players to be only p2w?

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Here's my objective opinion coming from my experience as game developing. Some probably go offtopic but i'll just list it all here anyways.

 

There certainly ARE problems in the game. However half of the people are exaggorating quite a bit one way or another.

Let's start with the events. Events in overall in games indeed should be doable for every single person in the game unless specifically stated otherwise by the devs that This part is for these players and That part is for these players for whatever Legit, Reasonable reasons they might have. Clearly that didn't happen in this event so people are mad about them doing it this way. Also events should be varied and different from the actually gameplay, which in this game is dungeon crawling. As a developer myself, I hate it when i see other devs take the short way out and not bother creating something new and unique when they clearly have that cabability. But i understand they are a giant company, and companies are bound by their bosses who unfortunately do not know anything about gaming and are only there for money. So not much can be done on that front.

 

Now when it comes to normal gameplay and gearing and gold, I can just do a Facepalm. Compared to what it was before, it is 5 times EASIER to gear up decently and get going, no joke. You guys have 0 to complain there when you can farm stage 1 bt earring and ring, king gloves, belt and bracelet from Moon Refuge for free not to mention VT soulshields. And no, bt accessories acquired from raid has the exact same stats as the ones in Refuge. That gear is more than enough to start doing almost any dungeon no problems. As long as you know how to play and learn mechanics and not be lazy on that front. Is it time consuming? Yes. That's what every mmorpg game is about. Farming same stufff 2000 times over. Deal with it. It may not be fun always, but that's how every mmo game is on that front, more or less. That's why many mmo games offer a service to bypass that farming process with real life money, BnS not an exception. After getting all that gear from Moon Refuge you of course want gold and mats to upgrade them. Time consuming, but still EASY. As it should be. Mats no problem, do dungeons and farm Celestial Basin and done. Gold, daily dungeons give a ton. Enough to be able to do what you want. I mean CS, HM and MPS alone will give you easily nearly 30 gold. Add Circle of Sundering, Yunsang and outlaw island, thats 26 gold more. 56 gold just from 6 dungeon dailies. Not bad in my opinion, when you add rest of the dailies you can do. Do keep in mind that you are NOT supposed to upgrade half or all and get hundreds or thousands of gold in couple of days with only like 2-3 hours of gameplay. That is not realistic and is unreasonable. It all takes alot of time and some people don't have that time, yes i understand that. You also cannot expect the game to let those people who don't have time to use be able to get to the same gear level in the same amount of time as someone who plays everyday alot or pays. THat's also unreasonable. You can't have the gearing take too much time either which is also unreasonable. It all needs to be balanced and that part is one of the hardest thing to do. lot of people just are lazy or do not like farming much in the western side of the world, obviously. Still you have to remember this is not a game like fortnite where you can jump into the game and start playing every piece of content instantly and don't have to worry about anything.

 

Only thing i would consider is p2w at the moment would be gem powders. Since there is no way to acquire them decently anywhere in the game. Everything else more or less is fine, except maybe for premium transformation stones or certain badges. Those can be quite difficult to get for a new player. As a sidenot, you don't need maxed out gems. They are nice thing to have especially for low geared players, yes but they do not affect your overall performance as much as you think. Especially since at endgame you can have over 1 million dps easily without any gems. Same for pet. Soul would be the biggest damage booster and you can get oils easily through events so no big issues there.

 

Main problem obviously is the optimizations. Which is why people have trouble clearing content, etc and can't farm efficiently. As a developer, im surprised big game companies do not prioritize optimizations at all. Less issues = more money for them. I do know UE 3 pretty much sucks for large mmo games like BnS, still you should try to make it as optimized as possible before releasing. UE 4 coming somwhat soon should fix majority of these issues as i know it is way better optimized engine and cabable of perfoming way way better in every aspect. So be patient on that one.

 

Class balances are another thing here. My only opinion on that is simple. Every class should be able to do roughly the same in every aspect. On some aspects slightly less well, on some more better and the way dps is achieved needs to be also different in every class. That's called specialization. But every class should be able to dish out roughly same amounts of dps and be able to protect itself as good as the other class, the methods to do so needs to be different. Some classes also needs to be difficult, some easy so theres something for every type of player, skillwise. That's balance in my book.

 

So in overall, just play in your own pace. Don't sweat it over the upgrades and you get there. Have fun instead of being toxic to others and everyone makes mistakes once in a while.

Edited by Amarathiel

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My opinion on it is that there's a mix of both good and bad :

 

For the good, you need to first ask yourself if the event is actually worth it. The Resurgence emblems gives rewards like Lycan's fire wings, TT soul shield 1-3, GC steel, Onyx scales, Divine Orb fragment and octagonal gems.

 

The wings are cosmetics and the rest is better off getting them normally rather than with this event at all :

> TT soul shields, you can get 1-5 from MSP and MSP stage 6 requires less gear for sure than what this event is even asking for. Besides imagine everyone would be able to do the event ? Everyone would end up with TT 1-3 ? Trust me that's already a huge boost and VT ss should still be the "most non-free accessible soul shield" in my opinion.

> GC steel meh, progressing through TT should be the way to go.

> Onyx scales -> multiple fragments from DST/BC, whole scales from BC.

> Divine orb frags are for people attempting challenge mode, which most of them are end-geared anyway.

> octas gems are good I admit, they should just make the powders a tad more accessible. However Heptas are more than fine for a starter/progressing player, AP is already boosted by enough via. high lvls also not to mention AP is far from being everything, % of bonus damage from accs/soul/etc is far more valuable.

 

It does suck that the fancy cosmetics are being locked behind that huge wall but multiple people said it already : if you are here for the must-get-to-progress items, they are available through Legendary Orbs, there shouldn't be complaints overall. It's far from being a pay2win event and the reasons why will be said in the bad, ironically. For example, ping, if you Trove your gear up to GC3 and have 300ms, you might still not make it despite having "p2w" your gear that up.

 

 

Now, for the bad... not everyone despite their gear, can sustain 1.3m/s of dps.

 

There is a good reason to be thrown up by this event and it's the fact not everyone has 90ms in-game. Most of people actually do have an ok/mediocre ping at best. I play Warlock and my Helix count can get crippled even if I'm only past 40ms because it's just bs how this game acts for most of the classes in general.  

I do admit as well that the gear needed is pretty high, just check the LFP function on F8 for Burning Mausoleum it requires Grand Celestial 3 lol and here we have another problem : the event weapon isn't as good as it seems. Slower procs makes it not so much of an increase for some classes and you're more likely better off staying with Aransu 6+ 

 

However, are people playing this game good enough too ? And right there I'm talking about micro-management of your rotation.

Look, frankly I kind of doubt it, just check how people are playing this game :

+ they ask 1.5-1.6k for VT, I did joined some of them and they're still traps LOL Not being able to clear mechanics at all, let alone knowing them if you reduce the party to 1.4k.

+ they can't even make a fast run of BT with mid-maxed BT gear, they need maxed VT gear. (lol)

+ they're asking 1.4~1.5k as well for braindead dungeons with little to no mechs needed anymore. (The Shadowmoor is an absolute joke now)

 

People are mostly bad and it's a fact. I might sound like a jerk but that's the truth. People need to stop being spoonfeed like no tomorrow, faction chats are the ways to realise how bad the situation is nowadays. People don't love the game itself in reality (high geared players mostly), people don't care about this game, they go in, pick a class and instead of discovering it, literally asks every single question about it such as "WHICH BADGE DO I TAKE ?" "BALEFUL OR SERAPH ? XXXXXXXXXXD" "flYiNG kiCK oR dRaGOn fiST ??!!?!".

 

But I also don't think this forum is the good place for that, just check how many people were thrown up by the first Realmrift Supply Chain event. You needed to do mechanics all over again, people complained. The second time, this event bore its fruits : absolutely no reactions needed, overpowered Soju spam and just mashing buttons, resulting in literally free VT ss if you were lucky enough. Very interesting indeed.

People might act I'm some elitist/hardcore player but funny enough, I don't even play the game that much either, I am just astonished about how people can find this game "hard", all you need to do is to educate yourself about Blade and Soul and put in a little effort in playing along the game. 

 

Now thus said for the players, maybe NC Soft needs to step up their game too. Players need to grind, but don't let them grind for nothing too aka. shitty rng on soul shields for example, or horrible blocking via. legendary jewels. (500g to get stage 4 accs xd^^)

Edited by Lyn Thunderfox

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Grimoir   
1 hour ago, Lyn Thunderfox said:

> TT soul shields, you can get 1-5 from MSP and MSP stage 6 requires less gear for sure than what this event is even asking for. Besides imagine everyone would be able to do the event ? Everyone would end up with TT 1-3 ? Trust me that's already a huge boost and VT ss should still be the "most non-free accessible soul shield" in my opinion.

> GC steel meh, progressing through TT should be the way to go.

> Onyx scales -> multiple fragments from DST/BC, whole scales from BC.

> Divine orb frags are for people attempting challenge mode, which most of them are end-geared anyway.

> octas gems are good I admit, they should just make the powders a tad more accessible. However Heptas are more than fine for a starter/porgessing player, AP is already boosted by enough via. high lvls also not to mention AP is far from being everything, % of bonus damage from accs/soul/etc is far more valuable.

Exactly! Plus if someone is really looking to get octas which would be better than their current gems, they can always farm the buds in moon refuge and buy the octa chest. Granted its rng and non-upgradable gems, but if you are looking for an upgrade over your hexa / hepta, thats a great alternative until you can get upgradable ones.

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On 4/12/2019 at 8:15 PM, Kitsune Takahashi said:

Well, look not trying to defend them but I do have to say this and point this out for you. One simple question. What can you pay for aside from outfits that you can't get by normal means that gives you a advantage over someone else?

I don't want to spoil it for you but I will....Nothing. There is nothing you can buy using ncoins, hongmoon coins that other players can't get by investing time. The event has something for newcomers as well as 'whales'. Sorry, if you can't get those wings or the octagonal gems, but you can get other items by only doing stage 1 - 3 and desolate which help you gem up slightly, divine grace stones, decent enough outfit (even though its a recolor) and some pet packs / sacred vials. Now, many of you guys could really ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ and moan if the pet packs and vials needed the harder emblem to get then the easy one am I right?

Kitsune, you're exactly right. However, you, nor I, or anyone else can otherwise dissuade those here damning B&S. Each and everyone of them feel they are entitled to all the benefits of a premium membership without paying for it. The believe what they believe and everyone else is either a White Hat, Whale, or demon for supporting Blade & Soul with their money. However, what is further from the truth, is the premise that B&S has violated their own business model in some form or fashion. They have not. Yet the OP here will never accept that all because he/she cannot participate in some part of the new event.

 

What I believe B&S' mistake is using their Korean/Japanese model of this event for the NA/EU. NA/EU servers are 4 years behind Korea and 2 behind Japan in terms of game play for everyone. Korean game launched in June 2012 (Japan 2014), NA/EU 2016. The event should've been tailored for these servers based on that. I'm pretty sure they have the metrics to show how far along everyone is. It is the case of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. One event does not fit all in this case. This is a business and development mistake on Blade & Soul Korea who sets these up with Blood Lust. The question is, will those in Korea learn from this or continue doing things that alienate the player base outside of Korea? That remains to be seen.

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Nexigen   

Actually, even higher geared players are triggered by this 'event', because event titles have absurd requirements. 

2.146.000 DPS for solo Turtle. (!!)
For some classes it's technically impossible to do such DPS even with end game gear.

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Around 1.8-2 mln each for Lord 6-man.

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This event is screaming for HP reduction...
 

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On 4/12/2019 at 6:59 PM, Grimoir said:

This analogy makes no sense at all. The problem is not that people spend money to get a bit ahead of others. I will tell you what the issue is, the issue are actually the casual players.

If someone has money to spend on a game to get things faster go ahead they have all right to do that same as players who dont spend money can sell gold for hongmoon coins and buy the exact same things, that does not create a problem, the problem is created when casual players / f2p players who cant do that and are behind, expect a free carry by the geared ones or the game be made easier for them because they cant invest the time in it or cant invest to learn mechanics and make their own parties. thats where the problem comes from because they are feeling "entitled", they want the same high end gear with minimal to no effort.

But not all players are like this. Not every casual/ F2P players who's behind by everyone is "expecting" to be carried by others; that's flawed logic without evidence to prove it. Additionally, not all casual/ F2P players feel "entitled," so they should be carried and be on-par with everyone else. That's called being impatient.

 

I don't think making a divide between casual vs. hardcore players is a strong argument because there isn't strong-enough data to back that up. Casual and hardcore players can spend money on this game if they want to because of microtransactions; it's a given choice. What makes the frequency of spending different can be whether the spender is a casual or hardcore gamer, but that's not 100% true.

 

Casual gamers could just be playing the game to have fun, while hardcore players could be playing the game every day to be at the top; the time investment is the real measurement here. Unfortunately, because of the design of the game, casual gamers can't have fun with new, up-to-date content because of money-wall barriers and an inclination leaning towards "high-tier" requirements.

 

The real problem with this game involves the fact that most of the content that NCSOFT releases for Blade & Soul is geared towards whaling players that choose to spend thousands of dollars on microtransations to get ahead. It's a marketing strategy for the whales at the expense of the rest of the player-base.

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Every decision that goes into the making of this game seems to be going towards the whales now. It's sad, but that's the truth.

Edited by Snowyamur

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Grimoir   
2 hours ago, Snowyamur said:

But not all players are like this. Not every casual/ F2P players who's behind by everyone is "expecting" to be carried by others; that's flawed logic without evidence to prove it. Additionally, not all casual/ F2P players feel "entitled," so they should be carried and be on-par with everyone else. That's called being impatient.

 

I don't think making a divide between casual vs. hardcore players is a strong argument because there isn't strong-enough data to back that up. Casual and hardcore players can spend money on this game if they want to because of microtransactions; it's a given choice. What makes the frequency of spending different can be whether the spender is a casual or hardcore gamer, but that's not 100% true.

 

Casual gamers could just be playing the game to have fun, while hardcore players could be playing the game every day to be at the top; the time investment is the real measurement here. Unfortunately, because of the design of the game, casual gamers can't have fun with new, up-to-date content because of money-wall barriers and an inclination leaning towards "high-tier" requirements.

 

The real problem with this game involves the fact that most of the content that NCSOFT releases for Blade & Soul is geared towards whaling players that choose to spend thousands of dollars on microtransations to get ahead. It's a marketing strategy for the whales at the expense of the rest of the player-base.

I do get your point. By casuals I mean generally players who don't have the luxury to spend a lot of money on this game. New content is meant for a certain gear level. If someone is not up to that gear level, he shouldn't be doing it. He can do the content once he has the gear for it, or what people always do, wait till it gets nerfed and then do it.

If they would make content easy, there would be nothing challenging for the high geared players, so its far beneficial to make it with a high requirement and then decrease it as the game goes forward.(even tho I am not a fan of nerfing dungeons).

 

there will always be this "oh whales this and that", regardless what nc does. Truth be told, without those "whales" half the casuals wouldn't have the badges and weapons they have now anyway. money factor counted in, they can spend money on trove, rng boxes ….but they still need to learn the raid mechs and content to get the actual gear.

so if they can put in the time to learn it, clear it and have the gear to max it.....there is no reason why more casual players cant do it to....instead they prefer to yell things are too hard....and then it all gets nerfed to the ground.

 

I am not saying its right whats happening or wrong...but all this has turned into lately is a complaining simulator instead of a mmo.

 

 

Edited by Grimoir

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Astarae   
2 hours ago, Grimoir said:

By casuals I mean generally players who don't have the luxury to spend a lot of money on this game.

Your use of casual isn't what is usually meant by casual. 

 

Casual are those who don't dedicate a large portion of their spare time to become the best in a given game.  They look at the game more as 1 of several past-times they do as entertainment or fun -- and generally want such expenditures of time (and often money) to be productive in terms of fun and making them feel good about themselves.  They aren't going to be happy going  into an environment that makes them feel substandard, or like a 2nd class citizen -- they'll usually look for a game that has some payback or benefit level more along the lines of what are willing to invest in a casual activity.

 

To use bicycling as an analog -- the casual biker might like, at most, to go out for a weekend or daytrip on their bike.  They aren't looking to compete in triathlons and they aren't looking to have the title of #1 given to them, AT ALL.  Some casual riders might like to buy very good gear or even professional level gear.  But that doesn't mean they want to compete or be judged on that level and it certainly doesn't mean they want to get some 'status grant' sending them to the Olympics.  But they certainly might like to buy a professional level bike because it makes going up and down hills that much easier.  They might like the same light and airy clothing worn by professionals because it is more comfortable than a T-shirt+jeans.    So they may be willing to spend money in equipment or attire to have their casual participation be easier and more fun.  But they certainly aren't looking to have a reservation on the Olympic team or make millions from a lucrative sponsorship contract. 

 

But a casual player usually has many interests and doesn't have alot of time to become "an expert", they have other things in their life they need to spend  time & money on, Vs. someone who lives and breaths their passion -- even if they can't make a living from it. Some can't wait to get home and participate in whatever their passion is.  Maybe they spend all week in a digital world because that's their 'sole' passion.  They may have the opportunity to reach levels of play more than most casual players, and they probably would like more challenging events -- but still, they aren't going to be at the same level as those who might become full-time pros in their field of passion.

 

In short, whether or not you spend lots of money or not, is a different 'axis' than how intensely you get get involved with your 'passion' or your 'recreational activity.  There *MAY* be correlations, like those who have a strong passion toward 'X' are more likely to spend more of their personal resources for optimizing their fun in 'X', but loving a game like 'chess' could mean simple participation in a local chess club that is 'free to play'.

Quote

New content is meant for a certain gear level. If someone is not up to that gear level, he shouldn't be doing it. He can do the content once he has the gear for it, or what people always do, wait till it gets nerfed and then do it.

Content is usually meant for some skill level that can be enhanced by better equipment.  I.e. if all the "newbs" suddenly had cheap gear with the same specs as pro-gear, they likely would do better and might conceivably have more fun.  But they will come away from that activity with different experiences than those who look at the same activity as a competitive field.

 

In the real world, one usually has the option to pay for better equipment and fancy fashions apart from coming in at a #1 position in some contest.  Amateur and casual players will never achieve the same levels as dedicated and professionals in a field, but they can still buy similar level equipment and similar attire - just not the titles and the skill.

 

Edited by Astarae

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Grimoir   
6 minutes ago, Astarae said:

Content is usually meant for some skill level that can be enhanced by better equipment.  I.e. if all the "newbs" suddenly had cheap gear with the same specs as pro-gear, they likely would do better and might conceivably have more fun.  But they will come away from that activity with different experiences than those who look at the same activity as a competitive field.

 

In the real world, one usually has the option to pay for better equipment and fancy fashions apart from coming in at a #1 position in some contest.  Amateur and casual players will never achieve the same levels as dedicated and professionals in a field, but they can still buy similar level equipment and similar attire - just not the titles and the skill.

you worded it nicer than me :) but still, there actually if you look at it aside the current event there is nothing in the game that requires actually super end game gear. Even TT doesn't need that much gear considering the bosses take most damage from mechanics. Personally, at least from what I notice....most of those casual players don't want to invest time into learning mechanics for a dungeon / raid which they actually are geared for. Instead its just complaints things are too hard or that its hard for them to catch up. They complain about F8 because they cant find parties, yet they don't want to make one of their own because it will take longer to clear. Imagine what they would be saying if were back in the 45's with frozen stingers and the old upgrade paths.

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3 hours ago, Grimoir said:

I am not saying its right whats happening or wrong...but all this has turned into lately is a complaining simulator instead of a mmo.

You're right; the community and the game itself have turned into a complaint department instead of a thriving gaming community and game. However, this was bound to happen given NCSOFT was already heading down this road when 2017 hit and Treasure Trove became an in-game system and mechanic used to breed gamer whales.

 

3 hours ago, Grimoir said:

there will always be this "oh whales this and that", regardless what nc does. Truth be told, without those "whales" half the casuals wouldn't have the badges and weapons they have now anyway. money factor counted in, they can spend money on trove, rng boxes ….but they still need to learn the raid mechs and content to get the actual gear.

Going off of this, without whales, this game wouldn't be standing, either. It's because of the willingness and desire of many players to spend on microtransactions in Blade & Soul that keep the game alive. That's sad, and what makes it sad is that it should be a thriving, welcoming, and lively gaming community that keeps the game alive, not money nor P2W. If the game was good in its own regard, in which its design, mechanics, gameplay, and online competition were fair, more people would pay out of pocket not to win in Blade & Soul, but to happily support it, and keep on supporting it because they're getting more out of what they're paying for.

 

This is how it is with Warframe. People pay money for Platinum in that game because the content and events for that game are playable for all, things are fair, and content stays fresh and new. However, what makes that game do so well is that it's entirely composed of PvE, probably having one of the worst PvP systems I've come across so far with their Conclave system, so there isn't a need for competition unless someone was trying to prove themselves the best collector in the game.

 

That said, if Blade & Soul adopted a Warframe-based marketing model, they would cater to more people fairly such that they'll get more of the consumer market on their side. Right now, the only people supporting their game are the whales, the few players that play this game for dailies or fun, and people that stream this game or make content out of it on YouTube. That's it, and that won't go far.

 

3 hours ago, Grimoir said:

so if they can put in the time to learn it, clear it and have the gear to max it.....there is no reason why more casual players cant do it to....instead they prefer to yell things are too hard....and then it all gets nerfed to the ground.

In their defense, some of the dungeons players try to run are too hard, not because of the way they're designed, but because of the gear requirement. NCSOFT is obsessed with gear requirements in Blade & Soul, and it shows just from the ongoing event happening right now. Even if a player were to use a Level 60 Voucher right off the bat, fighting the Sacred Longgui boss is ridiculously hard because it demands the best gear. Players would need the best gear because they have to [somehow] dish out an average 1.2 million DPS/ second to kill it within an unfairly-developed timeframe before it gets Enraged.

 

Source: 

 

This gear barrier issue is the main problem with their events; by placing gear requirements, they place restrictions on who can participate in events or not.

 

That's not how events work. Events should be available and optional to all players, allowing anyone, even those who are low-leveled, participate in the event; it shouldn't only cater to high-level or end-game players with grand-tier gear.

 

However, the requirement is an issue with the entire game itself. Players could learn the mechanics, understand the boss fights, and understand the entire dungeon itself. Sadly, if they don't have the right tier gear, they die; it's as simple as that. That's how poorly-designed dungeons are in this game, they act as a way to compel players to spend to get semi-decent gear to be able to run dungeons, and even that's not enough. It's a horrid practice, but it continues being used today in other games, not just this one.

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Amraith   

Greetings everyone,

 

Just a friendly reminder to keep things civil, discuss topics, not the posters, and to leave the PvP in the game.

 

Regards,

 

Amraith

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Heaya   

Hello,many are disappointed with this event because they need to have TT gear to do that many people can not do this event .because it's very difficult,if you do not have gear you can not do it, even if you have the event weapon,many try with the event weapon even though it can't pass,it's so sad

Edited by Heaya

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They rarely change events during the event, sometimes they wait until after and ruin it the next time its used (eg. the Harvest event).

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Can we all just accept the fact that the Legends Reborn "event" isn't an event, but end-game content? Can we all agree that this should just be end-game content and work on coming up with ideas for a better, and actual, event?

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Jurisz   

I felt that BnS really started to go downhill with its money making practices when Silverfrost released. I still remember the day when the first RNG box was released ingame shop (I kinda even remember the audacity from NCWest to claim that there will be no RNG boxes ever), I think it was somewhere after the bloodshade harbour release?               

 

I mean koreans have BnS subscription so it shouldn't be that bad for them? The bad practices I mean. But I can be wrong. Ultimately this game was designed to be waifu bait with beautiful combat and scenery with money making machine ingame design.

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Il y a 1 heure, Jurisz a dit :

Ultimately this game was designed to be waifu bait with beautiful combat and scenery with money making machine ingame design.

Like pretty much any Korean games/mmos fyi.

 

 

Now I'm not gonna quote the other post I'm answering to because it's tl;dr so I'll just pin

 

@Snowyamur

The reason Warframe also does good is because the studio/company only owns this one game, added to the fact it's a western company so they fit their business model much better in their own "region" than any eastern games will ever do.

NC Soft meanwhile, doesn't only have Blade and Soul to take care of. They have GW 2 + Lineage/2 + Aion + all the other mobile games. Not to mention these said mobile games make literally almost twice more revenue than any of their PC games combined by the way xd.

 

Only mistake NC Soft is doing, like most of Korean companies, is thinking everyone should catter with pleasure to their economic model. Did they ever wonder why it never worked in the west ? Look at RNG boxes for example, look at how western companies like EA got literally bullied for having put RNG boxes/micro-transaction to SW : Battlefront 2. There was also the controversy with Middle-Earth : Shadow of War, everyone lost their sh!t that time.. micro-transactions leading to pay to "win" is very controversial here.

 

Now there are 2 problems >

1) The simplest one is that everyone has a different definition of "win" in gaming. While I'm indeed salty of gear difference, you don't really win anything in PvE. For me it's pay to win the moment it grants a player an unfair advantage to another one in a competitive environment.

PvP is, PvE is not, simple as that.

However there are people competing in getting maxed gear, and those I guess will not appreciate the fact you can gear just by going Trove mode against a guy that wasted a year or so gearing up to the max, farming the game... while someone with 55555555 Trove keys just be like "XD".

 

2) Yeah their economic model sucks here but people are complaining like NC Soft should be a effing charity just for them. Sorry it's still a company like any other, they're here to make money not to be your maids or something.

I will repeat : yes that model is bad but so far, if you think about it, it's still working. Trove is horrible, yet you pretty much see a big part of the players being like "WTB/S 80000 Trove keys XD" so for a community that refuses and dislike pay to "win", they sure like to make profit of "controversial rng" features right.

Maybe it will stop working if a very big part of the community really has enough of this model.

 

 

About your comments on the game, it's not at fault. The problem is, once again, the community in general. The mechanics are hard ? lmao, most of them requires you to just stop dps and press WASD.

 

You don't need Aransu 6+ to clear Brood Chamber, nor Dreamsong Theater or The Shadowmoor. Let alone everything from Drowing Deeps -> Sandstorm Temple.

Normal mode is normal for a reason, everyone should be able to join those. The problem is as I said, the community wants to clear everything in 10 seconds, instead of taking time to clear what they actually need to clear. 

Hard mode is cattered for high geared/"skilled" players, however I do think normal mode should train you for hard mode. I do understand normal mode should be nerfed compared to hard mode but to the point of removing every single wipe of the dungeons, it's stupid and doesn't give any interests for the player to play this game at all.

 

If you clear Temple of Eluvium normally, it's for people to GET their Aransu weapon, but no people will recruit you IF you have own Aransu which doesn't make sense. Like I said above, people don't like this game, they want to clear everything fast, new players are spoonfed and veteran players have nothing interesting to do because everything about mechanics is being nerfed to the ground... instead of actually reducing boss HP so the dps requirement can be lowered down while you still need knowledge and efforts to clear said content. (that way if you are "bad", you can still pay to "win" to get gear so you can skip these mechs, win-win situation for NC Soft and the players)

 

Now I admit the economic model is kinda in a fault for that and it's for one thing only : Trove needs to stop with the pay to SKIP PROGRESS. If people Trove for dyad gems and super wings/cosmetics or 500 onyx scales/gc steel, fine. But stop putting the effing badges and weapon mats on Trove, it's stupid someone can just go in there, swipe 1k keys and be maxed VT without knowing what to really do in this game. 

That's also the problem for free players : since everything is on F5, instead of having to do the raids, you should simply "farm gold to buy everything from F5 and not get carried on VT" when 160k was actually the min. req for HQ. Anyone can pull out 160k with the lowest gear you can get just by clearing the "gear" quests such as -The dead refuse to die- or -Know thine enemy-.

So yeah despite that, NC Soft never told you either to require 1.5k for Temple of Eluvium. If you think NC Soft is bad, maybe the players should already take responsability for their own sh!t but they didn't so now, the game is going to "die" and it's not only NC Soft's fault for sure. 

Edited by Lyn Thunderfox
Edited quote.

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6 hours ago, Lyn Thunderfox said:

So yeah despite that, NC Soft never told you either to require 1.5k for Temple of Eluvium. If you think NC Soft is bad, maybe the players should already take responsability for their own sh!t but they didn't so now, the game is going to "die" and it's not only NC Soft's fault for sure. 

Players will never take responsibility for their own actions; most don't care, or fail to see that they could be the potential element to a lingering problem in the gaming community. It's always been like that, and it'll continue being like that. People refuse to change, or are blind to their own actions creating problems.

 

With that aside, I see your point now. It's not just NCSOFT; it's the community as well, but it's important to acknowledge that even with a strong community, a game industry could make mistakes. Like many game industries, it's about the money, and Asian game industries take this to the next level by going down a P2W route. Korean MMOs seem to be the root of all this, from my experience at least.

 

Most of the Korean MMOs that I've played always focus on over-fantasizing and making the female characters overly sexually appealing. Why? Because executives at these industries know their male audience love this, and they're willing to spend nickle and dime on getting cosmetics for their "waifus" or "digital girlfriends" because they can't get a real date in the real world, and it works. It's a proven market strategy that works, despite it being morally and ethically wrong, but those codes have been broken across multiple games, so it's near-commonplace now.

 

Moreover, with Korean MMOs, there usually is a P2W element in it. ArcheAge was a P2W game made by Trion that I used to play, and it was a P2W in a nutshell. You couldn't gather or farm materials without spending money on resetting a daily farming timer, and you could buy materials through microtransactions. TERA by BlueHole Studios does the same thing, but not as strong. You could spend money on getting armor and gear, and these boost your stats, even in PVP. This is also P2W, but slightly worse. It's also strange that on that game, you could buy undergarments for all your characters; I'm sure a male audience would love to have their Castanic female characters running around in their underwear because why not.

 

Sadly, this is going to continue with just about any eastern game released in the west, and it's never going to change. Personally, I think it's possible to simultaneously satisfy a market on the west, and a market on the east. It's extremely difficult because that requires flexibility of market practices, on top of understanding a country's cultural market practices, but it's possible.

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So, to summarize this thread, NorbertTheOpinionated made some great and valid points about why NCWest's behavior is fraudulent and disgraceful, and certain ignorant people are unable to recognize or admit the truth. Often because they are clearly clueless about the how logic and thereby correct arguments work fundamentally.

It really is a shame that so many people (i.a., in this community) are terribly uneducated, yet want to assert their opinions. Guys, if you do not have valid arguments to substantiate your opinion, it is absolutely worthless. Feelings and subjective experiences are insufficient to form valid arguments. In context of a philosophical debate, you must stick to common and well-defined concepts. If you mix them, or base your statements on individual definitions which you did not introduce properly, then what you write is not even wrong (which means it is nonsense, which is worse than making false assertions). And you must follow the basic rules of any epistemic debate, which includes to not ignore arguments but to either agree or to refute them by adequately leading the original arguments to contradictions. But much of what NorbertTheOpinionated wrote cannot be soundly contradicted since it was valid in common philosophical terms (as NorbertTheOpinionated's re-answers strongly indicate).

Edited by Dragorion

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