cold storage, my orb my loot, does this mean winter mane's loot + kaari's loot? or just kaari's loot?

[Crickateer]

@PewPewPew You are literally nitpicking in your post on everything. There are players on both sides arguing. The simple fact you are labeling people (several times) you disagree with is enough to stop reading the rest of your post. Slanting fallacy

[MassiveEgo]

18 hours ago, Crickateer said:

Care to elaborate? Sounds like you are just trying to be rude for the sake of being rude at this point. You, someone who has obviously stated difficulty trying to solo him while myself being someone who has eliminated the boss countless times solo with ease. I listed literally all you need to do to keep your dps as high as can be. Its literally all you need to do for the whole fight. So please elaborate go ahead if you can 

Nothing rude here. But if bots hit him (which in my case is an inevitability since I'm melee), the boss gains damage ressistance stacks, which when stacked up to like 5-7, makes your damage seem like a joke. Which means that you need to fit in killing the bots as well, which required a lot of dps to do so before they reawaken and keep going. Freezes and blinds be damned, those are too basic to be an issue.

[Miayu]

Just let the orb user get loot from both bosses imo. The orb is worth so much right now.

 

I just got screwed not getting CS 2nd boss kaari after sitting in f8 lobby for 10 mins trying to find cs moml where I'd be fast enough to join. When I finally got into a party, unfortunately a hepta gem ticket drops from winter mane. And you guessed it: one greedy kid bids on it. Not the one who was going to use the orb. And the orb user naturally doesn't feel like using his orb anymore for kaari. The greedy kid even dares to brag how he has an orb but won't use it. And that he won't leave the party and is willing to waste everyone else's time as long as it takes. I don't know how the situation ended up because I had other commitments to attend and wasn't willing to spend another 15 mins waiting on just one character trying to get kaari lord. 

 

Deleting everyone's white orbs and making the new orb supply far too low was the worst change ever seeing how you made the new event revolve around cs and hm too. Do you really think frustrating your playerbase is going to make everyone oh so happy to play? This event is almost impossible to do.  And seeing the community of this game the moml rule is not even going to work cos of too many greedy and shameless ungrateful people. 

[Crickateer]

7 hours ago, MassiveEgo said:

Nothing rude here. But if bots hit him (which in my case is an inevitability since I'm melee), the boss gains damage ressistance stacks, which when stacked up to like 5-7, makes your damage seem like a joke. Which means that you need to fit in killing the bots as well, which required a lot of dps to do so before they reawaken and keep going. Freezes and blinds be damned, those are too basic to be an issue.

You want to iframe the blind because its like 4-5 seconds of lost dps per blind (which can add up). As far as the damage resistance stacks goes you can just flat out ignore these (I do it all the time and kill him rather fast). If your dps is enough to beat the enrage timer its better just to ignore the stacks. If you are in a team of people who all have dps issues then you might but other than that its just best to ignore the stacks (You actually gain dps just by keep hitting him at most he should maybe get 3-5 stacks the whole fight if he gets more then your dps is subpar). So ignore the bots and ignore the stacks its much faster, just make sure you iframe that blind and cc his red attacks. 

Edited March 25, 2019 by Crickateer

[Jack Rozen]

Can’t give a black and white answer to a grey question. Reality is that MOML means whatever the orb owner wants it to mean. They got the orb and the right state their terms for its use.

 

That aside, the whole concept of an orb to play a dungeon that is already time gated is dumb. We really don’t need/never needed this second artificial limiter, devs. Progression is slow enough without it. It’s redundancy just causes unnecessary heartburn.

[MassiveEgo]

5 hours ago, Crickateer said:

You want to iframe the blind because its like 4-5 seconds of lost dps per blind (which can add up). As far as the damage resistance stacks goes you can just flat out ignore these (I do it all the time and kill him rather fast). If your dps is enough to beat the enrage timer its better just to ignore the stacks. If you are in a team of people who all have dps issues then you might but other than that its just best to ignore the stacks (You actually gain dps just by keep hitting him at most he should maybe get 3-5 stacks the whole fight if he gets more then your dps is subpar). So ignore the bots and ignore the stacks its much faster, just make sure you iframe that blind and cc his red attacks. 

You don't have to explain the mechanics of this place, I have enough exp in run count in there to offset half the forum base's combined entry count. Point is, you need a lot of dps in order to beat the enrage timer if you get more than def 4-5 stacks (also "should" means absolutely zero, he has hitbox much bigger than he is). You won't be soloing that with less than at least starbreak bracelet+a6-9+awakened bt jewels+vt necklace+leg soul and the rest hovering around that gear level. And that's not a gear level which everybody has. So don't go "just solo it" like we have 10 players in the game that are below the threshold of farming grand celestial gears.

[Ryunosuke Takahashi]

17 hours ago, Jack Rozen said:

Can’t give a black and white answer to a grey question. Reality is that MOML means whatever the orb owner wants it to mean. They got the orb and the right state their terms for its use.

 

That aside, the whole concept of an orb to play a dungeon that is already time gated is dumb. We really don’t need/never needed this second artificial limiter, devs. Progression is slow enough without it. It’s redundancy just causes unnecessary heartburn.

It can mean whatever they want but at the same time in my parties..you only get loot from the 2nd boss which is what takes the orb to do hence the whole "my orb to spawn the boss, my loot". (this is with me and even my clan members using their orbs)

It makes it fair for everyone so at least everyone gets a shot at some loot for doing said dungeon just because if you get right down to it the 2nd boss isn't really worth doing aside from the gem ticket chance. More then likely after this event is over you won't see too many people even doing Heaven's Mandate or Cold Storage 2nd boss just because there is currently a low amount of orbs and while the gem ticket is nice, you can also just get 1 in 3 days of doing daily challenges via solar energy and transmute with hopefully a source of powder coming back into the game with the April 10th update.

Edited March 26, 2019 by Kitsune Takahashi

[Crickateer]

19 hours ago, MassiveEgo said:

You don't have to explain the mechanics of this place, I have enough exp in run count in there to offset half the forum base's combined entry count. Point is, you need a lot of dps in order to beat the enrage timer if you get more than def 4-5 stacks (also "should" means absolutely zero, he has hitbox much bigger than he is). You won't be soloing that with less than at least starbreak bracelet+a6-9+awakened bt jewels+vt necklace+leg soul and the rest hovering around that gear level. And that's not a gear level which everybody has. So don't go "just solo it" like we have 10 players in the game that are below the threshold of farming grand celestial gears.

If you read what I originally said regarding the topic I wasn't telling every player in the game to just go solo it. I stated simply that very geared players (who most often are the ones using the orb anyways) who were carrying undergeared players will just outright solo the dungeon because its just simply stupid otherwise. If you solo it theres 0 risk of a player stealing your loot, no drama regarding said loot, etc. So if players continue to keep bidding on the first boss loot there will be less carries in the future and more geared players soloing it. I know very well because even everyone in my clan has decided to just outright solo cold storage now for this very reason. 

[Belido]

well I gladly leave all the loot to the orb owner, which means that I will just go pass on all if someone else uses an orb, if you consider yourself as a loot-❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ it is your choice. For myself the only thing I done if someone been geting two gem tickets in one CS run it to type a "lol gz".

[MassiveEgo]

2 hours ago, Crickateer said:

If you read what I originally said regarding the topic I wasn't telling every player in the game to just go solo it. I stated simply that very geared players (who most often are the ones using the orb anyways) who were carrying undergeared players will just outright solo the dungeon because its just simply stupid otherwise. If you solo it theres 0 risk of a player stealing your loot, no drama regarding said loot, etc. So if players continue to keep bidding on the first boss loot there will be less carries in the future and more geared players soloing it. I know very well because even everyone in my clan has decided to just outright solo cold storage now for this very reason. 

Ow, well you should've outlined this clearly from the get go. You drive a fair point there.

[darkhell666]

MOML on Cold Storage have always meant 2nd boss only, since the begining of these dungeons years ago, those that pretend anything else are crazy, and to be clear i use my own orbs too with random ppl and never pretend to get 1st boss orb for free, is open bid and always been that way, the missconception of MOML (both bosses) is stupid and just open the doors for the scammers and A55holes, this is an example that happened yesterday

Edited March 28, 2019 by darkhell666

[Astarae]

4 hours ago, darkhell666 said:

MOML on Cold Storage have always meant 2nd boss only, since the begining of these dungeons years ago, those that pretend anything else are crazy, and to be clear i use my own orbs too with random ppl and never pretend to get 1st boss orb for free, is open bid and always been that way, the missconception of MOML (both bosses) is stupid and just open the doors for the scammers and A55holes, this is an example that happened yesterday

Not that I disagree, but, the given screenshot doesn't prove anything.  Using: 1+2 as top+bottom, and A,  Dy and Dger as party members:

Situation I:

1) 'A' recruits saying MOML - not saying if it means 1st+2nd boss or just 2nd boss.

1) 'C', 'Dy' and 'Dger' join.

1) Boss-1 is defeated: 'C' leaves (nothing from shots to prove/disprove existence of other members who leave before bid on Feather and before  key-purchase in merchant; Dy passed on feather. Dger already passed on _all_,  NOW...

 

2)  'A' was afraid of someone using their orb and claiming loot #2,

OR 2) 'A' got phone call or chat they had to take, or they had company knock at door, or got sick and had to run to bathroom, or never planned to go on to Boss-2 (maybe never had orb). 

...2) 'A' invited people before Boss-1 because they wanted auction after Boss-1 or wanted to visit merchant for 'keys' 

OR 2) or didn't want Boss-2  and never intended to go past Boss-1, or did but had to leave on instant notice and didn't explain to rest of party OR THEY GOT DROPPED (not uncommon and same messages "left party")  but they didn't use an orb and didn't go onto Boss-2 because if they left party, they'd be transported out of the dungeon (not have option for #2). 

From the above it isn't clear what they did.

 

From your reaction, we know that they left the party before they used an Orb (if they had one), so DY and Dger are a bit "stuck": have fought Boss-1, gotten access to reward-1 (taken or not) and gotten access to mechant (used), but are locked out of Boss-2 for the day unless one of them has an Orb.

 

Whether or not 'A' demanded Boss-1 loot isn't clear from the screen shots:  only know that they got a feather uncontested, from the above.  Certainly they 'could' have bluffed their way through 'A'.  More clear would have been someone saying "MOML: Both Bosses" (as I have seen).  Regardless, they didn't communicate that they were expecting someone else to use their orb ("YOYL", or "need Orb: open loot", etc...

 

 

You provided a good reason for only going with people you know (like from a clan) and a hazard of 'Pugging'.  Also note, I certainly agree, they don't have any rights to Boss#1's loot if they just say 'MOML' as they are only demanding 1 Loot that goes with their 1 Orb. 

 

I'd suggest not going with someone who demands you fight for them on either boss without loot.

 

As a defense, I won't go with "MyMeMyMe" people - they are being selfish.  If they want me in party, they need to be clear that 1) they have orb, and 2) they aren't reserving all loot.

 

As it is, I recruit: Have Orb, Open Loot.  I won't go with others using an orb if they claim the loot.  It's not worth my time.

 

If they simply recruit saying they have orb, or just "looking for party members", I don't think look is reserved anymore than when  someone says they have [the corridor]  key on Skybreak Spire.  Certainly,  no one having a Corridor key enabling access to the 4th boss expects that they "own" the loot of boss 4, so if they don't claim special rules for handling loot, normal auction rules are assumed.

 

To be clear, in the case of someone else using an orb before I get to the orb-lock on Boss-2, that's their prerogative, but the group is still 'Open Loot' as decided at when the party was organized.

 

 

Edited March 28, 2019 by Astarae
clarification in wording

[darkhell666]

I'll put u in context about the screenshot (i'm Dy), "A" doesn't claim the 1st boss loot, however the ppl was kind with "A" and leave the loot to him (i didn't bid anything just cuz i was not interested, if i have interest i just bid), and to be clear it was a 6 ppl pt, nobody left the pt before "A", "A" just throlled the whole party members (completed his daily quest got loot and leave), after that i've said the rest that i have orb too soo how is for 2nd boss the moml rule applies, used, killed kaari, take my loot, end of story.

 

My point with the screenshot is directly related to the problem exposed here, even if there is no rule about 1st boss many ppl in game thinks that is a matter of courtesy with the orb owner, and if you don't show that courtesy or kindness many ppl with that missconception just treat u like a d1ck, an a55hole, etc., the screenshot just proves what's the fundamental problem with that attitude, this is not a perfect world, is full of a55holes that abuse from the ppl that is too kind, there is no point to show courtesy to a "Jhon Doe" on the 1st boss, the main reason is cuz that doesn't require orb, and the second is cuz put your trust on a complete strange here is just stupid, many of them will just abuse of that.

[CastielSeven]

On 3/19/2019 at 10:28 PM, Enigmatic Reaper said:

It's actually more widely accepted that orb user only gets Kaari loot.  I rarely ever run in to someone who expects Frostmane's loot on top of Kaari's for their orb.  I'd say maybe 1 in 10 runs the person wants both?  Pretty sure the only ppl spouting that it's "widely accepted" that orb user gets both belong to the minority who expect to get both out of greed.

This has been the rule since Cold Storage launched. You only get the loot for the boss you summon. Had a guy wanting to report me because i rolled on a feather on mane.  Took me by surprise that he was crying that it was his loot when it was not.  His loot was on the Kaari boss. Aside from that I did 80% of the dps in the dungeon. Next time I think I may just solo it.

 

But seriously,  the orb you use is for Kaari and that is the loot people get for their orb. Not the free boss Mane.

[PewPewPew]

On 3/18/2019 at 11:54 PM, Crickateer said:

MOML means the entire loot table is theirs and theirs alone unless they state otherwise (both bosses). This is the standard as it has always been in the past. 

On 3/19/2019 at 12:52 AM, Crickateer said:

Because thats redundant. Its a standard that MOML means both bosses for CS its been like this even when white orb events were a thing. Anyone who bids on boss one loot is just ignorant thats why the vast majority of players pass. 

@darkhell666 @CastielSeven tell it to this guy.  It is fine for him to call anyone who disagree with him ignorant, but when i call those who wanted both bosses' loot greedy, I am 'labeling people'. The irony is he called my post a 'slanting fallacy' when he is the one perpetuating one...

 

Anyway, as many have already said in the forum, there is absolutely no need for orbs in CS and HM since both are already gated by once a day completion(apart from resets). Just remove the orbs and there won't be any argument or drama as all loot will be free bidding. 

 

[Crickateer]

12 hours ago, PewPewPew said:

@darkhell666 @CastielSeven tell it to this guy.  It is fine for him to call anyone who disagree with him ignorant, but when i call those who wanted both bosses' loot greedy, I am 'labeling people'. The irony is he called my post a 'slanting fallacy' when he is the one perpetuating one...

 

Anyway, as many have already said in the forum, there is absolutely no need for orbs in CS and HM since both are already gated by once a day completion(apart from resets). Just remove the orbs and there won't be any argument or drama as all loot will be free bidding. 

 

You were slanting because you used the evidence of some players disagreeing to come to the conclusion that the notion presented is false without showing the counter arguments from other players, then you proceeded to post quotes of only "one sided" of the argument to try and back your claim this is of course after your big rant of labeling people.  Lets be honest here and look at your original post you are downright just slanting. I haven't been calling everyone ignorant repeatedly who disagrees with me either, in fact I referred to one person's statement ignorant about their argument early when the thread started so thats just a misrepresentation of my words. Also heres a fact, your average PUG for CS everyone passes on the loot for the orb holder. Its because it IS a standard. You are getting a free dynamic, orbs are much more valuable now today than they were ever in the past. Anyone who bothered to play when the free orb was taken away would know this very well. Orbs are a pain in the arse to get and you shouldn't settle for half of the loot. Especially when a boss like this can be solo'd, my clan and myself refuse to carry anyone because they might bid on said loot because they might not understand (hence the ignorance comment) the concept.

 

With that said I am not slanting because im not presenting posts here and there of other people agreeing with me only (hence the onesided part of your argument) because I would be obligated to list the other posts as well. Im merely stating my argument on this. Its quite seen especially in your new post you continue to do this with pings. 

Edited March 31, 2019 by Crickateer

[CastielSeven]

On 3/30/2019 at 4:16 PM, Crickateer said:

Its because it IS a standard.

Before Patch the standard was Kaari= Loot for orb holder. It was done out of courtesy. not obligation.  Mane has always been free for all. This is the truth no matter how many times and words you use to try and twist it. I am a veteran in this game and I know this to be so. You wont change my mind. I will continue to roll on manes loot like i have been for the past several years and pass only on Kaari. 

 

Have a good day. And stop trying to change tradition.

Edited March 31, 2019 by CastielSeven

[Crickateer]

37 minutes ago, CastielSeven said:

Before Patch the standard was Kaari= Loot for orb holder. It was done out of courtesy. not obligation.  Mane has always been free for all. This is the truth no matter how many times and words you use to try and twist it. I am a veteran in this game and I know this to be so. You wont change my mind. I will continue to roll on manes loot like i have been for the past several years and pass only on Kaari. 

 

Have a good day. And stop trying to change tradition.

Whoa whoa whoa no one is saying its an obligation. Everyone on the other side is saying its courtesy to give them both bosses as the standard. Its seen everyday when people pass on boss 1 loot. If you want to risk losing a dynamic that day by having the orb user leave or being blacklisted even thats your choice. You definitely aren't helping the player base thats for sure. This attitude makes it so players who can solo the dungeon will just solo the dungeon because of players that can't give common courtesy. Its also the fact how much a pain in the arse the orbs have gotten to be. Im a vet myself who has played since NA release. So "saying im a vet" means absolutely nothing if we both agree to disagree on the standard. 

[Enigmatic Reaper]

I still see orb user passing on all boss 1 loot in CS 9/10 runs and I run both on all my alts daily.

[Crickateer]

7 hours ago, Enigmatic Reaper said:

I still see orb user passing on all boss 1 loot in CS 9/10 runs and I run both on all my alts daily.

This made me laugh. I have the complete opposite experience as does just about everyone I play with. I have a hard time believing this is true. I always see the orb user take gem tickets + feathers, but pass on the rest of the loot on my alts. 

Edited April 1, 2019 by Crickateer

[CherryHood]

If I say MOML and people still bid on boss 1 it gives me no confidence that I will get my loot on boss 2. So its a trust thing for me if you cant leave the loot alone on boss 1 how can I trust that my loot will be left to me on boss 2? Its a risk to use the Orb in a party if you have no demonstrated evidence that people can leave the loot be.

[CastielSeven]

3 hours ago, CherryHood said:

If I say MOML and people still bid on boss 1 it gives me no confidence that I will get my loot on boss 2. So its a trust thing for me if you cant leave the loot alone on boss 1 how can I trust that my loot will be left to me on boss 2? Its a risk to use the Orb in a party if you have no demonstrated evidence that people can leave the loot be.

Boss 1 is Free for all. People will and STILL have a right to bid on the first boss whether you like it or not. You did not summon the first boss. And it took GROUP effort to burn down the bosses HP. Stop being greedy. Your loot comes from what YOU summon with the orb. 

[MSN1]

This really shouldn't be such a big deal, and normally I would agree that MOML only applies to the 2nd boss. However, with this event we currently have, orbs are difficult to obtain, and I can see some people probably wouldn't even do Cold Storage if there was no orb to do Kaari afterwards - at least I wouldn't bother doing it. When the event first started, I was using usual LFP party searches for Cold Storage, but when parties would disband because no one had an orb, it became an issue because I needed the event currency. So for me, if the orb-user wants both loots, I have no problem with it. I only join groups that say MOML now so I know for sure I can go to the 2nd boss and get the event currency since I don't care about the loot (super casual player here). I've seen that my random F8 groups have always let the orb-user have both loots so far (up until an incident today), and so I'm used to just letting the orb-user have both loots by now too, unless they choose to pass on items.

 

It's kind of up to the party leader to come up with the terms when they advertise for groups, and it is appropriate that you agree to it if you join their party. If the party leader *specifically* states 'MOML for both bosses,' and you click to join that party, then you should follow those terms. Otherwise, please don't join. You create drama and waste time for everyone (-_-*) . I just had a group today where everyone joined the party after the leader specifically stated 'MOML both bosses.'  Yet some fool was bidding after *both* bosses. His excuse was he needed more frozen feathers. Yes. And another fool defended him (during bidding after the first boss), complete with name-calling and silly arguments to anyone that didn't agree with them. It seems they wanted to ignore the terms that the party leader had set down, would not even acknowledge that the leader stated 'MOML both bosses,' and instead wanted to come up with their own terms even though they were refusing to use their own orb. However, those two willingly chose to join the party after knowing that the party leader specified both loots belonged to them, and so they should have respected the leader's terms.

 

Well, what happened next was the rest of us were standing there waiting (as their rude insults were hurled toward anyone opposing them) during a long bidding war after the first boss, and then we had to wait some more afterwards because the orb-user became reluctant to use their orb for Kaari, which was understandable because it seemed difficult to trust that one bidding guy. Especially because that guy still bid on the 2nd boss, it just looked like an underhanded method to make someone else use an orb for their own gain, because they were unwilling to use *their* orb for it. I can't say anything other than that bidder was being despicable for bidding on both bosses.

Which brings me to my last point, which is what I hope to be a solution to this whole mess and maybe even lessen a bit of the toxicity in the community that is connected to it: Remove the need for orbs in Cold Storage (and Heaven's Mandate too, why not).  I don't normally post in forums, but the audacity and toxicity I have encountered in CS today was beyond ridiculous and bothered me enough to write - and I wasn't even the orb-user who got wronged. I understand both sides of how MOML should be either for the 2nd boss only or for both bosses, and again, I normally would have agreed with the former. But it is rude and disrespectful to go against the terms that the party leader had already stated and still want to join the party and also bid, especially on *both bosses*, when you didn't even want to use your own orb. I still see people in MOML parties bid in Heaven's Mandate too who didn't use an orb either. Perhaps removing the need for orbs would have prevented any confusion or conflict altogether, and maybe people wouldn't feel the need to have to be so disrespectful and toxic, at least in this one area. Seriously, a community should be helpful and supportive of one another, but the way this game is, it encourages quite the opposite.

Edited April 6, 2019 by MSN1

[Astarae]

MOML is dead or dying.   The selfish MOML's are having problems getting suckers to fight for them -- especially high level suckers.

More than once, I've seen a moml saying they need DPS (@5/6).  They are getting other low level people signing up, but the high level people are being asked to chaperon / carry low level players AND get no loot.  Huh?  In what universe is that fair OR even a courtesy?

 

Asking for help from higher level users but then flaunting MOML in their face?  How ignorant can people be?  How long before people start this: 

WTS: CS-run (both bosses) 250G + your orb + I get loot. 

 

Boss 1 in CS is hard.  No low or mid level user can solo it and even a higher level (gunner parse @ 800-900kDPS peak 1.5m) can't clear it before hitting aggro due to being frozen much of the time.  I'd been clearing both CS+HM for over a year before patch.

 

I had over 100 orbs before patch, that ran 3.5 - 4.5G each.  I effectively "donated" 100 orbs when new patch went in -- another point new orb holders overlook when demanding  all of the party loot.

 

Before patch, the fact that treasure from CS/HM was low-level junk was one of the justifications for giving it to lower level

orb holders.  That's no longer the case.  Now most players need help, and the reward isn't junk.

 

To all those who think holding some access token should grant you party loot, how many demand all of BT's loot for holding a corridor key?

Corridor key is always in demand -- yet does anyone expect to get all loot?  Without it, it takes a higher level group to do the corridors.  So why aren't people demanding all the loot in BT?  

 

If you demand all the loot in CS or HM -- clear it by yourself -- then you've earned the loot.

 

 

[Crickateer]

59 minutes ago, Astarae said:

 

 even a higher level (gunner parse @ 800-900kDPS peak 1.5m) can't clear it before hitting aggro due to being frozen much of the time. 

 

This is so wrong. As someone who has done it on a gunner alt with that much dps. Its just not true. Being frozen doesn't affect your dps at all either whether you are melee or ranged provided you are facing the boss the whole time which you should be. The only issue is the blinds but those can be iframed, and the red attacks being an easy cc. Honestly if someone cant do that i doubt they can clear mao or hong even as those dungeons require a hella more mech management.

 

As far as people not demanding all the loot in BT its because the loot there is more of value to overshadow something as a key which by the way is a joke it get compared to getting orbs. CS Both bosses give garbage loot either way (even hepta gem ticket as you need several of these, comparing these to something such as a BT earring is silly) so it just makes sense the orb user gets it out of common courtesy so the others can get their easy dynamic in. 

 

Edited April 6, 2019 by Crickateer