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Fiana

Nerf Dg mech for TSM DST BC

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Grimoir   

Just to put it out there:

 

TSM - Rin, BiS PVP Ring and for some classes can even be BiS PVE ring

BC - Gloves, current BiS gloves, also the loot for this dungeon is actually very very nice, best way to get onyx scales.

DST - Earring, same as ring BiS PVP and can be used for PVE.

 

So...the dungeons provide legendary accessories which means they should not be brainded farmable. If they didnt have any mechs they might aswel give people the legendary accs for free and yolo.

 

2 minutes ago, iKickz said:

endgame dungeons should pay 20-25g, and not just 15-16. Too much gear requirements and mechs. Why does something like HH or DD pay the same as BC? 

Because people have the missconception that the gold rewards from daily quests are the only / main gold source which isnt true. Instead of doing 10 dailies for 100g, you can do 10 times brood chamber and earn double than that or even more if the gloves drop. People are so box focused on the quest gold they do not see all the other, better opportunities to make more gold.

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iKickz   

Not everyone has an easy time getting a BC multi or getting into teams.  You're right it's good income, but also it's very unreliable if you are weak or the wrong class.  I have been kicked in the past with a9, before I reverted, because my soul, ring, and earring wasn't tiger/TT. I rolled my weapon back to a6 and I can't find any f8 now.

End game dungeons are very toxic and full of GC 9 thunder whales with full dyad. Either you go with a clan and it pays less, or you host your own BC and people leave as soon as they look at your stuff. Good luck if you aren't a tank class, and you try to host it though. It's up to luck then.

5 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

Just to put it out there:

 

TSM - Rin, BiS PVP Ring and for some classes can even be BiS PVE ring

BC - Gloves, current BiS gloves, also the loot for this dungeon is actually very very nice, best way to get onyx scales.

DST - Earring, same as ring BiS PVP and can be used for PVE.

 

So...the dungeons provide legendary accessories which means they should not be brainded farmable. If they didnt have any mechs they might aswel give people the legendary accs for free and yolo.

 

Because people have the missconception that the gold rewards from daily quests are the only / main gold source which isnt true. Instead of doing 10 dailies for 100g, you can do 10 times brood chamber and earn double than that or even more if the gloves drop. People are so box focused on the quest gold they do not see all the other, better opportunities to make more gold.

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Grimoir   
7 minutes ago, iKickz said:

Not everyone has an easy time getting a BC multi or getting into teams.  You're right it's good income, but also it's very unreliable if you are weak or the wrong class.  I have been kicked in the past with a9, before I reverted, because my soul, ring, and earring wasn't tiger/TT. I rolled my weapon back to a6 and I can't find any f8 now.

End game dungeons are very toxic and full of GC 9 thunder whales with full dyad. Either you go with a clan and it pays less, or you host your own BC and people leave as soon as they look at your stuff. Good luck if you aren't a tank class, and you try to host it though. It's up to luck then.

Hm...maybe i am just not seeing it but i was in plenty of BC parties where people had aransu 3, aswel as parties with GC that were wiping but no one was toxic or leaving a party. We even were taking turns on the scale drops since everyone needed those.

 

I actually think the bigger issue with BC is not that its too hard or people being toxic. I would say its that most people think the dungeon needs some super godlike gear to clear which isnt the case. Mechanics are also not hard. If more people had the confidence to learn it and not be scared of the dungeon you would see a lot more parties in F8 and much less requirements.

 

I personally have no problem going into BC with lower geared people if they ask for help.

Edited by Grimoir

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Fiana   
7 minutes ago, iKickz said:

Not everyone has an easy time getting a BC multi or getting into teams.  You're right it's good income, but also it's very unreliable if you are weak or the wrong class.  I have been kicked in the past with a9, before I reverted, because my soul, ring, and earring wasn't tiger/TT. I rolled my weapon back to a6 and I can't find any f8 now.

End game dungeons are very toxic and full of GC 9 thunder whales with full dyad. Either you go with a clan and it pays less, or you host your own BC and people leave as soon as they look at your stuff. Good luck if you aren't a tank class, and you try to host it though. It's up to luck then.

exactly, i also have this problem
the thing that many player fail to notice is the more hard the mech is the more toxic people become, not only in recruitment, but also if the mech failed

have you see toxic player in ssm, hh, if, el nowdays? no? why because the dungeon become easy, people don't have any reason to be toxic anymore
compare that to early day HH, when you can wipe when you failed during pizza HH, how many people become toxic with each other

right now, toxic people remain in that dungeon is player who afk, who usually really need to do stuff irl or lagging

Edited by Fiana

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Fiana   

@Grimoir player recruit high gear player not only looking for dps, but also experience

because player with high gear usually have better experience, and already run the dungeon

 

 

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Grimoir   
Just now, Fiana said:

@Grimoir player recruit high gear player not only looking for dps, but also experience

because player with high gear usually have better experience, and already run the dungeon

 

Its not allowed on forum but i could right off the bat give you at least 7 names of people with GC 9 that have no clue how to run BT, not to mention BC xD all because they literally swiped for the gear they have without having any clue on mechanics. So...no gear =/ = experience.

 

You know what helps? The more you run F8 dungeons the more of the same people you encounter and if your runs go good, those people tend to remember you, then they know "hey i ran with this dude before, so i know he aint a trap" ...and thats how people get to join your parties / accept you in theirs. Its a big but small community where people do remmber if you are good or bad.

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Fiana   
1 minute ago, Grimoir said:

Its not allowed on forum but i could right off the bat give you at least 7 names of people with GC 9 that have no clue how to run BT, not to mention BC xD all because they literally swiped for the gear they have without having any clue on mechanics. So...no gear =/ = experience.

 

You know what helps? The more you run F8 dungeons the more of the same people you encounter and if your runs go good, those people tend to remember you, then they know "hey i ran with this dude before, so i know he aint a trap" ...and thats how people get to join your parties / accept you in theirs. Its a big but small community where people do remmber if you are good or bad.

my dude, i already at the level when i give up doing TSM BC with random party
i don't really mind running with people who know the mech buat lack run for training, we can learn together

but noooo~, people will start to leave the party after 3rd wipe.. wth with that,
and this not just happen in TSM or BC, even in RT.. when 2-3 people dont know the mech, some people rage quit the dungeon
in the end, either we have enough ppl to do the mech, or i also leave because dont have enough people remain

RT is still tolerable, i can teach some new player, "all you have to do is enter the circle and go to edge" or you just "stand x meter from the boss"
really simple

now imagine teaching random people in f8 TSM mech? can you? even if you can, how long they will remain in party? 

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iKickz   
13 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

Its not allowed on forum but i could right off the bat give you at least 7 names of people with GC 9 that have no clue how to run BT, not to mention BC xD all because they literally swiped for the gear they have without having any clue on mechanics. So...no gear =/ = experience.

I know  a handful of people who just straight up buy accounts with GC / Tiger gear. They don't even swipe. They just buy accounts for a few hundred dollars that is already fully decked out. Totally against TOS, but it's rampant. People from poorer countries that quit want to flip them I guess... 

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There's something you people forget. This is a mmo RPG game. Keywords being RPG. RPG games have always been and will always be heavy on time usage. If you don't have time then don't play RPG games. BnS on top of a RPG game is also a multiplayer game which WILL increase the amount of time needed even more, cause mmos and RPG games always have boss fights with mechanics. Single player RPGs obviously have the mechanics toned down for that 1 player. BUT this is a multiplayer game meant for a 5 member teams or higher when raiding. You are supposed to work as a team and do the dungeons.

Problem is, NO ONE for the most part in NA or EU is WILLING TO HELP OTHERS or LEARN FROM OTHERS or they have 0 patience to make every dungeon faster and easier to run. People do not communicate. Which results in this stupidity of nerfing everything. RPG bosses are supposed to be challenging that make you think and not just hack and slash. And don't give me the old bull.... of i have a life. RPG games should be, are and will always be very time consuming. On top of this being a mmorpg it is a Korean rpg. And you all know how Koreans love their precise movement mechanics etc. That won't change no matter what because the core idea of BnS IS the challenging mechanics that you are supposed to learn together with others and THEN start the farming process with those 4 other players and repeat same dungeons 500 times, that's supposed to be the idea of the game. NOT the part where you already have max gear. BnS was designed on that very idea.

It's not the destination, it is the journey.

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Fiana   

@Amarathiel if you want to do the mech then go to HARD mode, you can enjoy the taste of "RPG" Mech in their full glory... why do you want to force someone to enjoy something that they not want?

 

why do you think people get toxic? that because they're not enjoying what they're doing... wipe mech with random stranger is not fun

why in raid you rarely find toxic people? even with such hard mech? that because they have fun doing it, the reward good, playing with friend, doing voice chat, etc

it's not that player not want to help each other, we don't have the mean... how we can help someone who dont know the mech in TSM? by typing the entire mech on chat box? not good and as you said, not everyone have patience to do that

so lets draw the middle line shall we? we normal people want to try new content, have easier time, get lower reward, and you all hardcore player can do daily in hard mode, have challange, and get higher rewerd :wink:

Edited by Fiana

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xDuckYx   

Drops and drop rates in this game are not even worth to do all those hard mechs like in tsm and waisting time trying to finish a dungeon 1 time a day because of all that toxic ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ and leavers rage quitters.....yeah maybe ring is good but lots of peoples need to do like 400-500 runs of tsm to see that ring drop a single time....and yes i know you can buy ring when you have enough cores and enough runs done

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Garlend   

Fiana, I agree with you and most of your arguments.  If you wanna nonbrain dead dungeons go hard mode. Let us casuals play the newer content with out the insta wipe if some one messes up.

 

I don't wanna spend an hour in a dungeon just to have ppl leave at the last boss. I did this when asura came out and don't wanna do this again. I work full time and only have a certain amount of time to play.

 

If it does go back to the days when asura came out I would probably quit the game.

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Grimoir   

You know what... You convinced me. Please Nerf the mechs and make the reward dependant on the difficulty since that's why we have hard mode right ? And that's why it's not worth to do TSM with all those mechs for crappy loot right?

 

So, please Nerf the mechs and make the following changes:

 

- add a separate daily for hard mode clears

- daily gold reward reduced by 60% for the normal mode

- legendary accessories should only drop in hard mode versions

- normal mode should have increased requirements to 150 runs and 300 cores to purchase the accessory

- loot and rewards should be decreased by 50% in normal mode.

 

 

There. You can complete your daily without any mechs and rewards are based on difficulty and effort invested which rewards the players who put in more effort.

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xDuckYx   

loot and rewards decreased by 50%? there is already no reward dude so reduce to zero maybe and no gold yeah man that sounds pretty cool for a dungeon where you sometimes spend 1 hour

Edited by xDuckYx

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Fiana   
2 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

You know what... You convinced me. Please Nerf the mechs and make the reward dependant on the difficulty since that's why we have hard mode right ? And that's why it's not worth to do TSM with all those mechs for crappy loot right?

 

So, please Nerf the mechs and make the following changes:

 

- add a separate daily for hard mode clears

- daily gold reward reduced by 60% for the normal mode

- legendary accessories should only drop in hard mode versions

- normal mode should have increased requirements to 150 runs and 300 cores to purchase the accessory

- loot and rewards should be decreased by 50% in normal mode.

 

 

There. You can complete your daily without any mechs and rewards are based on difficulty and effort invested which rewards the players who put in more effort.

why you're so evil =.=
- daily gold reward increase by 60% for the hard mode

- loot and rewards should be increse by 50% in hard mode.

this is better, why you always want to bully casual player

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Except there are mechs that you can simply NOT nerf.

 

Dreamsong Theater is a good example, boss 1 is simply not possible to nerf, the only thing I could see to "help" is making the circle spawns in a certain order. (first circle always at 12'o clock f.e.)

Shadowmoor as well, you would have to remove the curse system entirely to make it impossible to wipe or it wouldn't make sense. You could remove some cc from the boss' attacks + failing at stun/kd the boss when he grabs during third curse mark wouldn't be that "punishing" as hurling it away.. however nerfing the curse would be impossible. 

Brood Chamber boss 1 could like heal by x% instead of wiping after 2 orbs absorbed.

 

As said before, start by puting some actual help in F12. They used to do it before, so why is this not a thing anymore ?

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Fiana said:

right now too many thing can wipe party on upper dungeon

and because you guys will nerf reward for ssm-hh too, i guess you want us to run higher dungeon

 

but how you expect everyday f8 PUG can clear TSM when we still get wipe in RT an people dying left and right =.=

do you want us to rect with TSM DST BC A9+ only? not for dps but to show he is experience player

Instead of wiping left and right, maybe it would be a good idea to learn mechanics, just like everybody else does? The point of these dungeons is to do the mechs, not to not do them. If you want to not do the mechanics, you'll have to choose a different lower dungeon or a different game, cause in this game the pve is about executing mechanic properly. If you're really, REALLY op, you can maybe skip one mechanic phase, but that's it. You still need to do it successfully at least the first time it triggers. And if you must can pull it off once, you can pull it off twice. That's all.

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xDuckYx   
vor 4 Minuten schrieb MassiveEgo:

Instead of wiping left and right, maybe it would be a good idea to learn mechanics, just like everybody else does? The point of these dungeons is to do the mechs, not to not do them. If you want to not do the mechanics, you'll have to choose a different lower dungeon or a different game, cause in this game the pve is about executing mechanic properly. If you're really, REALLY op, you can maybe skip one mechanic phase, but that's it. You still need to do it successfully at least the first time it triggers. And if you must can pull it off once, you can pull it off twice. That's all.

This is impossible because alot of players have lag and fps problems and for seome mechs you have only a few seconds.....and pls now dont say buy a better pc bla bla bla my pc is good enough to play newest games on ultra without any problems and i play some games even on NA servers with a ping of 60-70.....im german and i play bns on german sever with a ping of nearly allways 100+ and like 30-50 fps in dungeons

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1 minute ago, xDuckYx said:

This is impossible because alot of players have lag and fps problems and for seome mechs you have only a few seconds.....and pls now dont say buy a better pc bla bla bla my pc is good enough to play newest games on ultra without any problems and i play some games even on NA servers with a ping of 60-70.....im german and i play bns on german sever with a ping of nearly allways 100+ and like 30-50 fps in dungeons

1. That sounds like their problem, not an issue with the mechanics. I play with 80-110 most of the time and I never had problem with mechanics. And I'm almost 2000km away from the EU server location, living on a mountain in a forest, with a p2p 5ghz wi-fi connection, not fiber. Now... if people play from another continent, that's on them. If they play on a cheapo internet package, that's also on them. If you want to enjoy a prosper in a game while you have like 300ms. Choose something that is actually playable with 300ms. Aka not BnS, as harsh as that might sound;

2. I can make a PC that will run state of the art games on max settings with 144 fps, but will run BnS with like 15fps in raids. You'll need to learn more on how the ue3 revision that they used for this game works. There are optimization issues, that is true, but there's also the part where people don't know what they need for this game, then buy whatever shiny they THINK they need, then play with 5-20 fps in raids and keep being annoyed at the company, for not making the game in a way that would allow them to make stupid purchases and not suffer the consequences :shrugs: ;

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Grimoir   
55 minutes ago, xDuckYx said:

This is impossible because alot of players have lag and fps problems and for seome mechs you have only a few seconds.....and pls now dont say buy a better pc bla bla bla my pc is good enough to play newest games on ultra without any problems and i play some games even on NA servers with a ping of 60-70.....im german and i play bns on german sever with a ping of nearly allways 100+ and like 30-50 fps in dungeons

I live in EU and play on NA...and i can still do all the mechanics in dungeons and raids o.o i even have a clan mate who has 300-350 ping and he can do mechs without issues o.o

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Inrya   

Don't mistake net lag (80-120ms) to brainlag ... (Actually no value listed)

Often people tell like "I LAG" cause they just want excuses for their dumbness/fails/non-knowing mechs and rotation.

When I see a Force Master having A6 weap, legendary badges and elemental accessories, having hard time to keep his dps over 150k (Parse-wise), I'm just like "wth dude what's wrong with you ! You ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ing hit like garbage". WIth raven 9 And only leg soul badge (no VT badge) and elemental amulet, i'm parsing at 210k dps. Btw, this guy has 50-70ms ping, while I have 90-130.

TL;DR : There's real lags, and excuses. People often find excuses for their mistake rather than try to fix their mistake.

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xDuckYx   

It dosent matter what you can or not you cant talk for all....this game needs stabile server and a optimisation to make it playable for most peeps when they do mechs where you have only a few secs like you have in dst to get in a circle......but yeah its allways peoples fault when they get sometimes a 2-3 sec delay....

this game is old and you cant play it with a good new pc which have more than double the requirements as you need for it?

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@Fiana

One thing i do agree on is that mechanics in normal mode should not necessarily instant kill everyone. Still those should not be nerfed completely, they should prepare you for the HM version. Removing mechanics completely makes the game even more boring.

Also the fact that quite a few starts to rage or leave the party after 1 mistake shows exactly what the problem with most westerner people have. I doubt any Asian country has similar large scale problems as in NA or EU when it comes to community and their toxicity. If someone doesn't have patience or not willing to write something to a chatbox that's on them. There are also people who would rather write on chatbox than speak on discord or something. You can't expect everyone to know mechanics or even to be able to play with the same skill as you. People want to get to the end game content so badly in a very short period of time that it causes more harm than good. Slow down a bit, the same content(may be nerfed when you get there) will still be there. It won't go anywhere for a long time so where's the rush?

I don't understand why people feel the need to get X amount of gearing done before the next patch comes. That is what causes burnout and toxicity.

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19 minutes ago, xDuckYx said:

It dosent matter what you can or not you cant talk for all....this game needs stabile server and a optimisation to make it playable for most peeps when they do mechs where you have only a few secs like you have in dst to get in a circle......but yeah its allways peoples fault when they get sometimes a 2-3 sec delay....

this game is old and you cant play it with a good new pc which have more than double the requirements as you need for it?

Game being old is the exact reason there are performance issues. Technology goes forward and improves leaving old games with issues since the new hardware or software uses coding methods old games cannot understand or old games uses methods that have been completely removed from the new codings. So on that note it doesn't matter how good PC you have. If any part of the code uses something that cannot be interperted 100% correctly, it will cause performance issues. *cough* reason why windows 10 and bns has so much issues. Win 10 did not even exist when the game was made so you can't expect bns to run perfectly on it.

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