Raid path vs non-raid path: why upgrading becomes downgrading?

[Kozuki]

You know those non-raid paths that parallel with raid path in their respective tier?

 

-Raven vs Dawnforged/Riftwalk

-Aransu vs Exalted/Storm Dragon

-Grand Celestial vs Skyforged/Shadowforged

 

Let not talk about raid path vs non-raid path of the same tier (Raven vs Dawn/Rift...), cuz it is obvious that raid path > non-raid path (though certain builds may favor more non-raid path). Instead, let talk about raid path of lower tier vs non-raid path of higher tier (Raven vs Exalted/Storm Dragon...)

 

What happens? In term of power:

 

Raven > Exalted/Storm Dragon, despite that Exalted/Storm Dragon is upgraded from Raven

Aransu > Skyforged/Shadowforged, despite that the that Skyforged/Shadowforged is upgraded from Aransu.

 

Even at Stage 6+, non-raid path is still weaker than Stage 9 of previous-tier raid path (Skyforged/Shadowforged 6+ < Aransu 9)

 

Logically, the power scaling should be like this: Raid path > non-raid path (same tier) > raid path (previous tier).

 

What we have now is like this: Raid path > raid path (previous tier) > non-raid path (same tier)

 

Non-raid path is made so that unfortunate players without a proper raid can still upgrade without lagging behind too far compared to raiding players. However, all the non-raid path does in this game is:

 

-Provide weaker DPS than previous raid-tier

-Be a cheaper path when cost reduction comes.

 

What is the point to waste resources developing non-raid path when its only purpose is to become cheaper and then get bridged to raid path? Why should I even bother to upgrade to Skyforged/Shadowforged, when they are much weaker than my Aransu 9? May as well just adding an alternative upgrade selection for raid-path with the discount instead.

 

The usefulness of non-raid path is very thin and comes very late. Some regions even remove them cuz they serve pretty much no purpose than make Ctrl+I window looks complicated.

 

Seriously, NCSoft should remake non-raid path so that players have an incentive to upgrade to further tier, instead of just sticking to the previous raid tier.

 

[Grimoir]

you seem to fail to grasp the entire definition of alternative path.

 

the alternative (non-raid) paths are there so you can upgrade your weapon, without needing to do the raid and so you can upgrade cheaper.

It also makes perfectly logicval sense that the non-raid path is weaker than the raid path.

 

but also you forget to grasp that each alternative path becomes equal / better at stage 6.

So with a stage 6 downforge / exalted dragon you will do more dps than raven 9, but with stage 3-5 the raid 9 weapon will still perform slightly better.

 

Imo there is nothing wrong with the current paths as the buffs they offer do balance out the damage output vs the raid path, plus its a cheaper and easier way to upgrade to a certain stage. Raid path always is the main path, but since not everyone has the luxury to do raids they get the alternative path. If you can go the raid path right away by all means do so, but there are others who cant thus the alt path is better, cheaper and still an upgrade over what they have.

 

also you should not use other versions as comparison because other versions also have p2w weapons directly in the store for purchase.

[Indifferent]

It's not raid anymore, its alternate, when you can buy all ingredients from F5 with gold. Choose which you prefer. 

[Ryunosuke Takahashi]

To be honest and this might only be my opinion on the matter but the secondary path is for players who can do dungeons without much issue but can't seem to find a raid group to do certain raids with. Lets face the brutal facts about at least in Zulia's case the community. You have some groups that won't bring along anyone unless they have experience running said raid or set hilarious requirements in order to run them even if a player meets the legit bare min. damage per second / knows or at least reviewed the mechanics for each boss just because they want to clear it faster / charge them to make even more gold.

With that said, it is a secondary route but by no means a useless route. For one it is much cheaper and in the case of Exalted / Storm Dragon if you plan on eventually going Aransu anyway, you actually spend a hell of a lot less in terms of Hive queen Hearts then if you say went from Raven 9 to Aransu 3 then to Aransu 9. The upgrade path window isn't that confusing. Also, say you lack the means to run Nightfall Sanctuary like half of the community or fail to meet the requirements to join a progressive group to attempt, you still have a means to upgrade your weapon and not basically be stuck while still being able to switch over later on.

Personally on my main summoner I'm still debating on the switch over to Aransu 6 from Exalted 6 just because I can go pretty much all the way up to Shadow Forge Stage 6 and just kind of hang out til my ass can either get my clan in shape to run NightFall or switch over dealing with the extra cost of the hearts to max it out to Stage 9. I still do with my current weapon 235k+ damage steady with full VT minus the weapon switch and on simple mode so ya..

[yoM]

On 2019/2/15 at 8:01 PM, Grimoir said:

you seem to fail to grasp the entire definition of alternative path.

 

the alternative (non-raid) paths are there so you can upgrade your weapon, without needing to do the raid and so you can upgrade cheaper.

It also makes perfectly logicval sense that the non-raid path is weaker than the raid path.

 

but also you forget to grasp that each alternative path becomes equal / better at stage 6.

So with a stage 6 downforge / exalted dragon you will do more dps than raven 9, but with stage 3-5 the raid 9 weapon will still perform slightly better.

 

Imo there is nothing wrong with the current paths as the buffs they offer do balance out the damage output vs the raid path, plus its a cheaper and easier way to upgrade to a certain stage. Raid path always is the main path, but since not everyone has the luxury to do raids they get the alternative path. If you can go the raid path right away by all means do so, but there are others who cant thus the alt path is better, cheaper and still an upgrade over what they have.

 

also you should not use other versions as comparison because other versions also have p2w weapons directly in the store for purchase.

Can I see any parse on SF 6 higher than Aransu 9 (I don't play Des)? Not sarcasm I really want to know as I have Aransu 9 now but cannot clear TT 3-4 with my group yet.

[Grimoir]

1 hour ago, yoM said:

Can I see any parse on SF 6 higher than Aransu 9 (I don't play Des)? Not sarcasm I really want to know as I have Aransu 9 now but cannot clear TT 3-4 with my group yet.

A SF from my clan did a parse with aransu 9 and shadowforge 3. Aransu did 1.13 mil, shadowforge 3 did 1.05 mil. he didnt upgrade to stage 6 yet.

[Jack Valent]

It's a trap alternative. Just stay with Aransu 9 until GC super cheap in trove.

 

[Fiana]

On 16/2/2019 at 1:57 AM, Kozuki said:

You know those non-raid paths that parallel with raid path in their respective tier?

 

-Raven vs Dawnforged/Riftwalk

-Aransu vs Exalted/Storm Dragon

-Grand Celestial vs Skyforged/Shadowforged

 

Let not talk about raid path vs non-raid path of the same tier (Raven vs Dawn/Rift...), cuz it is obvious that raid path > non-raid path (though certain builds may favor more non-raid path). Instead, let talk about raid path of lower tier vs non-raid path of higher tier (Raven vs Exalted/Storm Dragon...)

 

What happens? In term of power:

 

Raven > Exalted/Storm Dragon, despite that Exalted/Storm Dragon is upgraded from Raven

Aransu > Skyforged/Shadowforged, despite that the that Skyforged/Shadowforged is upgraded from Aransu.

 

Even at Stage 6+, non-raid path is still weaker than Stage 9 of previous-tier raid path (Skyforged/Shadowforged 6+ < Aransu 9)

 

Logically, the power scaling should be like this: Raid path > non-raid path (same tier) > raid path (previous tier).

 

What we have now is like this: Raid path > raid path (previous tier) > non-raid path (same tier)

 

Non-raid path is made so that unfortunate players without a proper raid can still upgrade without lagging behind too far compared to raiding players. However, all the non-raid path does in this game is:

 

-Provide weaker DPS than previous raid-tier

-Be a cheaper path when cost reduction comes.

 

What is the point to waste resources developing non-raid path when its only purpose is to become cheaper and then get bridged to raid path? Why should I even bother to upgrade to Skyforged/Shadowforged, when they are much weaker than my Aransu 9? May as well just adding an alternative upgrade selection for raid-path with the discount instead.

 

The usefulness of non-raid path is very thin and comes very late. Some regions even remove them cuz they serve pretty much no purpose than make Ctrl+I window looks complicated.

 

Seriously, NCSoft should remake non-raid path so that players have an incentive to upgrade to further tier, instead of just sticking to the previous raid tier.

 

none of those answer above speak the trust

see raid weapon relies on elemental damage, and non raid weapon relies on pure ap and crit damage
so if you use raid weapon make sure you also use raid acc,

same if you use non raid weapon, make sure you use non raid acc, if you do that, the damage different is really small :3
many mistake is when someone use non raid weapon but use raid acc, that'll waste alot of element attack

only 3 acc you need to pay attention, ring, earing, and neck :3

[xDuckYx]

thats not realy true either.....look like gunners alot of them use myth ring and prophercy neck just elementar earring and raid wep and do more dmg than with bt,TT ring and vt neck

[KIRBCHEK]

My main is an Earth Destroyer, I upgraded from Storm Dragon 7 to Shadowforge 1 on 02/17/2019 and got a massive drop in damage output.

 

For those that are not aware, the earth destroyer uses this weapon tier because of the 30% decrease to fury cooldown making this class rather fun to play plus a big boost in DPS as a result of its primary damage output method being more readily available. I was hoping for any increase. I am aware that there wasnt going to be much of an increase because I should of waited for stage 9 before upgrading to Shadowforge 3, but I got impatient. It was a massive dissappointment as I spent hours in the training room trying to get some consistent numbers and in most cases the loss of damage per second was staggering. I was on occasion hitting bursts of 100k+ less than I was originally before the upgrade. After recording 10 restarts and getting an average my burst suffered a 54k loss, my parse suffered a 37k loss.

 

Im hoping that the shadowforge weapon is simply bugged and is in the process of being fixed.  Bwahahaha... I actually laughed hard after rereading that previous line. 

[Grimoir]

42 minutes ago, KIRBCHEK said:

My main is an Earth Destroyer, I upgraded from Storm Dragon 7 to Shadowforge 1 on 02/17/2019 and got a massive drop in damage output.

 

For those that are not aware, the earth destroyer uses this weapon tier because of the 30% decrease to fury cooldown making this class rather fun to play plus a big boost in DPS as a result of its primary damage output method being more readily available. I was hoping for any increase. I am aware that there wasnt going to be much of an increase because I should of waited for stage 9 before upgrading to Shadowforge 3, but I got impatient. It was a massive dissappointment as I spent hours in the training room trying to get some consistent numbers and in most cases the loss of damage per second was staggering. I was on occasion hitting bursts of 100k+ less than I was originally before the upgrade. After recording 10 restarts and getting an average my burst suffered a 54k loss, my parse suffered a 37k loss.

 

Im hoping that the shadowforge weapon is simply bugged and is in the process of being fixed.  Bwahahaha... I actually laughed hard after rereading that previous line. 

its not bugged its normal. The shadowforge path and any path after aransu depends highly on weapon procs. The higher you upgrade your weapon the higher the proc chance. You should notice your dps becoming higher after stage 3.

[KIRBCHEK]

By definition, upgrade means raise (something) to a higher standard, in particular improve by adding or replacing components. Google it if you dont believe me.

 

This thing that Blade and Soul is calling a upgrade is a joke to say the least. According to the window called " Equipment Upgrade Paths"  I went up the ladder by evolving my weapon utilizing the equipment management window. What do I get, I recieve a drastically worse weapon. I believe by definition that is a down grade. Just in case you wanted to use a synonym of down grade, demote or lower would be much more accurate than calling it an upgrade.

 

The weapon  states that it "triggers warforge effect" when in fact it should read "chance for Triggering" as it is impressively random having a horrendously bad proc rate. In order to get 5 stacks it can take anywhere from 25 to 40 seconds. Sometimes as many as 15 blows before even triggering. The Item descrition box after getting the full 5 stacks states an outright lie stating it increases Ap by 5700.  Yes I have read everyones theory of what it really means. The fact is, the warforge effect description is wrong and needs to be addressed. When you say its not bugged, please take a deep breath and try to understand that you are in fact incorrect.

 

The evil clown deep inside me wants to say things like; the entire weapon description for stage 1 Shadowforge needs to read "broken, do not use because we are lazy and refuse to do anything about it" but in reality that only creats conflict. I prefer to stick to the facts.

 

To be frank, the fact is they released an item with an inaccurate description and from what I can tell they have no intention of admitting that there is a problem. This is a very dissappointing trend this game is suffering from. Making excuses is not productive at all, making solutions is.

[Amarathiel]

The Warforge effect works exactly the same way Riftwalk effect or stormdragon effect works. The extra 5700 attack power means for 5 next hits you get 5700% extra damage calculated from your base attack power(attack power from gear doesnt seem to have any effect) and maybe from elemental damage too then inflicted as additional damage AFTER your normal damage hit. Higher your weapon stage is, the better this effect is and in theory it can outdps a raid weapon if you are lucky with the procs. So no it's not broken or bugged.

To put it simply in numbers, these are not real numbers. if your base AP is 200 without any gear then this effect when triggered deals about 1140000 points of damage 5 times in a row.

Obviously the real calculation doesnt work 100% like this but it gives you the idea how it works in general.

[KIRBCHEK]

Fact - The description of the effect is inaccurate and from what you just said you agree, whether you know it or not. You are theorizing what it means like many others, simply because the discription does not match reality. The description reads, "Attack Power +5700, Max 5 stacks". This is simply not true. Making excuses for a weapon that does not do what it says it does fixes nothing. You use the word "maybe" and make excuses at the end of your statement saying it doesnt work 100% exactly like that only because you dont actually know. The weapon also reads, "Triggers Warforge effect" when It should read "Chance to Activate" as it does not trigger based on anything but activates and stacks based on luck.

 

Just for fun ill humor you, If your theory is correct then I would have a random burst of well over 1 million damage as my base AP is over 200. 

 

I tested your theory today for about an hour and you are incorrect. At no point did I do anything over 220k on any single hit, and there was no additional damage magically appearing at any time. In fact when the warforge effect activates, all I see is about a 15k boost to my cleave at best, and it goes away when the effect does. Thats not much considering it takes anywhere from 25-40 seconds to activate and it doesnt last long. 

 

Now there is another theory that it was meant to read "Additional Damage", and not "Attack Power" as that would make perfect sence with regards to the reality of this situation. If this additional damage typo theory is correct than that would explain the underwhelming result of the warforge effect and its pathetic damage output compared to the weapon it was upgraded from. I do understand that the effect gets better with evolving the weapon further so please dont remind me. I am looking for something I dont already know.

 

Now back to the original issue. When people spend the time, resources, possibly even hard earned real world money to upgrade a weapon, at no time should it end up doing less damage than its lower teir counterpart that it was evolved from. This one does and making up theories doesnt fix anything. Going from Stormdragon7 to Shadowforge1 is a downgrade, plain and simple. 

[xDuckYx]

Well but than in this game nearly all or just all descriptions are incorrect.....

with these description numbers that gives xxxx% of base dmg or ele dmg my gunner should burst easy 10mil+ if i activate my bracelet+badge+weapon effect but i barely get over 1 mil even with buffs (bb,sb,bw)

[iKickz]

I know of people going non raid path gears, and still going to raids. Really kills DPS and strains the rest of the raid. In f8 too, people get fooled to take these storm dragon 6 players that are weak as ravens for stuff like TSM and above and they are barely pulling 200k dps. I tend to kick stormdragon players and treat them like raven 6. 

[Grimoir]

3 hours ago, KIRBCHEK said:

Fact - The description of the effect is inaccurate and from what you just said you agree, whether you know it or not. You are theorizing what it means like many others, simply because the discription does not match reality. The description reads, "Attack Power +5700, Max 5 stacks". This is simply not true. Making excuses for a weapon that does not do what it says it does fixes nothing. You use the word "maybe" and make excuses at the end of your statement saying it doesnt work 100% exactly like that only because you dont actually know. The weapon also reads, "Triggers Warforge effect" when It should read "Chance to Activate" as it does not trigger based on anything but activates and stacks based on luck.

 

Just for fun ill humor you, If your theory is correct then I would have a random burst of well over 1 million damage as my base AP is over 200. 

 

I tested your theory today for about an hour and you are incorrect. At no point did I do anything over 220k on any single hit, and there was no additional damage magically appearing at any time. In fact when the warforge effect activates, all I see is about a 15k boost to my cleave at best, and it goes away when the effect does. Thats not much considering it takes anywhere from 25-40 seconds to activate and it doesnt last long. 

 

Now there is another theory that it was meant to read "Additional Damage", and not "Attack Power" as that would make perfect sence with regards to the reality of this situation. If this additional damage typo theory is correct than that would explain the underwhelming result of the warforge effect and its pathetic damage output compared to the weapon it was upgraded from. I do understand that the effect gets better with evolving the weapon further so please dont remind me. I am looking for something I dont already know.

 

Now back to the original issue. When people spend the time, resources, possibly even hard earned real world money to upgrade a weapon, at no time should it end up doing less damage than its lower teir counterpart that it was evolved from. This one does and making up theories doesnt fix anything. Going from Stormdragon7 to Shadowforge1 is a downgrade, plain and simple. 

You do realize you are comparing a stage 7 weapon with a stage 1 regardless if its a higher up tier, the effect is still "worse" than the stage 7 weapon.

Each time you change a weapon path you will notice a small dps drop but the more you upgrade the new weapon you will notice it becomes far superior than the previous tier.

This is no secret. the same happens if you swtich over from Aransu 9 to Shadowforge 3...you will notice a drop but the moment your shadowforge reaches stage 6 you will notices a slightly higher damage output.

 

For detroyers its a bit different but most other classes do not switch weapons for the lower stage ones. people farm materials so they can directly  go to stage 6 in one go.

[Amarathiel]

Alright, let me clarify in more detail what i meant. I know exactly how the effect is supposed to work like. It is identical to the effects of Riftwalk and Stormdragon but stronger. It does not give you attack power, that description is wrong then. What it does is it gives you 5 hits worth of additional damage each hit doing 5700% of your attack power which exact calculation formula is shrouded in mystery.

Also the example i gave you DOES NOT MATCH the actual real calculations for the damage output, it is only to tell you in a simplified version as to how it is supposed to work. You wont get something like 1 million damage no way in hell. You will however get a significant damage boost. Riftwalk has little less than 5700% and for me it deals about 50k extra damage per hit so that means you get something like 65k points of damage, roughly, per hit which translates to 325k points of extra damage every time you trigger 5 stacks after the previous one. Thats how it should work.

I have done million tests myself on Riftwalk weapon to figure out the exact way damage is calculated so i know what im talking about. 1 thing i know for sure, its calculated from base attack power, elemental damage and additional damage may be included in that calculation but it is not certain yet. Descriptions on those effects to clarify them are lacking to say the least. Go to training room, hit with lmb until you get 5 stacks, then hit once with lmb and look at your damage log. You see your normal lmb hit + 1 extra hit. That is the effect damage you are getting. That damage number and the chance to trigger stacks gets bigger and bigger until you reach max stage for that weapon. And yes, it should read "chance". The word trigger is used on every single item that has a "chance" to trigger something.

[Kozuki]

On 2/17/2019 at 4:35 PM, Fiana said:

none of those answer above speak the trust

see raid weapon relies on elemental damage, and non raid weapon relies on pure ap and crit damage
so if you use raid weapon make sure you also use raid acc,

same if you use non raid weapon, make sure you use non raid acc, if you do that, the damage different is really small :3
many mistake is when someone use non raid weapon but use raid acc, that'll waste alot of element attack

only 3 acc you need to pay attention, ring, earing, and neck :3

You never heard...

 

Inheritor's/Myth Ring for classes with focus problem?

 

Prophecy Necklace which is a hard-earned PvE necklace that pwns VT necklace in term of DPS, even is even comparable to ET necklace in KR?

 

Also, the one that boosts your elemental damage the most is not your weapon.

 

It is your Soul, with juicy elemental damage scaling by percent.

 

So the thing with "Raid weapon must go with raid accs" is nonsense.

On 2/16/2019 at 3:01 AM, Grimoir said:

you seem to fail to grasp the entire definition of alternative path.

 

the alternative (non-raid) paths are there so you can upgrade your weapon, without needing to do the raid and so you can upgrade cheaper.

It also makes perfectly logicval sense that the non-raid path is weaker than the raid path.

 

but also you forget to grasp that each alternative path becomes equal / better at stage 6.

So with a stage 6 downforge / exalted dragon you will do more dps than raven 9, but with stage 3-5 the raid 9 weapon will still perform slightly better.

 

Imo there is nothing wrong with the current paths as the buffs they offer do balance out the damage output vs the raid path, plus its a cheaper and easier way to upgrade to a certain stage. Raid path always is the main path, but since not everyone has the luxury to do raids they get the alternative path. If you can go the raid path right away by all means do so, but there are others who cant thus the alt path is better, cheaper and still an upgrade over what they have.

 

also you should not use other versions as comparison because other versions also have p2w weapons directly in the store for purchase.

You seems love whiteknighting every mistake of NCSoft.

 

About non-raid stage 6+ < aransu 9, most classes deal less damage with non-raid path. If the damage catches up at stage 6-9 non-raid, doesn't it mean that I waste materials to upgrade a subpar non-raid weapon into one that has equivalent power to the raid-path weapon I used to have? What is the point to upgrade then?

 

This goes against the definition of upgrade. Upgrade should make you "stronger", not "weaker then comparable". If an upgrade is weaker, it must have something else to compensate the weakness. For example, an upgrade that makes your sword weaker, but you can do x2 hit in other games. So, instead of wasting materials going non-raid and get sneered on by other players for wrong choice, like that shadowforged 6 player get kicked in an A9+ DST I used to see, why don't I just stick with at the previous tier of raid-path?

 

Aransu 9 has power to be comparable to higher stage of non-raid, and it can be now easily accessed from F5, troves, events, daily dash. Also, why should I waste a lot of blue scales going shadowforged/skyforged when it provide subpar performance? Don't tell me that blue scales are easy to come by. It is only easy to come by if you have A9+. And, you need a lot of them for other relevant gear, which is what non-raid path eats a lot.

 

 

[Amarathiel]

Another thing i dont understand in bnS community, why is it a thing that every single person HAS to do X number of dps with only this 1 particular weapon type or you are seen as trash? That makes no sense. The dps you get from all weapon paths, in their max stage, is more than enough to clear ANY content in the game in reasonable time. If its not, then there is something wrong in the game itself. So why do you demand a certain dps number and/or weapon type from every single person? If you already get well over 200k or 300k per second, that should be enough for majority of the content. At least in my opinion. I don't care if a dungeon takes 5 minutes longer due to slightly less dps, only if it starts taking 50 mins too long will i care.

[xDuckYx]

vor 18 Minuten schrieb Amarathiel:

Another thing i dont understand in bnS community, why is it a thing that every single person HAS to do X number of dps with only this 1 particular weapon type or you are seen as trash? That makes no sense. The dps you get from all weapon paths, in their max stage, is more than enough to clear ANY content in the game in reasonable time. If its not, then there is something wrong in the game itself. So why do you demand a certain dps number and/or weapon type from every single person? If you already get well over 200k or 300k per second, that should be enough for majority of the content. At least in my opinion. I don't care if a dungeon takes 5 minutes longer due to slightly less dps, only if it starts taking 50 mins too long will i care.

Thats is realy simple to explain....those who want 1,5k+ or whatever just dont want to do any mech just burst down every boss in a few seconds

[Grimoir]

1 hour ago, Kozuki said:

Inheritor's/Myth Ring for classes with focus problem?

First time i heat. Especially considering that using inheritor for any class over raid accessory is the most dumb thing someone would do. not even summoner, especially since so many things provide now focus regen.

 

1 hour ago, Kozuki said:

You seems love whiteknighting every mistake of NCSoft.

 

About non-raid stage 6+ < aransu 9, most classes deal less damage with non-raid path. If the damage catches up at stage 6-9 non-raid, doesn't it mean that I waste materials to upgrade a subpar non-raid weapon into one that has equivalent power to the raid-path weapon I used to have? What is the point to upgrade then?

 

This goes against the definition of upgrade. Upgrade should make you "stronger", not "weaker then comparable". If an upgrade is weaker, it must have something else to compensate the weakness. For example, an upgrade that makes your sword weaker, but you can do x2 hit in other games. So, instead of wasting materials going non-raid and get sneered on by other players for wrong choice, like that shadowforged 6 player get kicked in an A9+ DST I used to see, why don't I just stick with at the previous tier of raid-path?

 

Aransu 9 has power to be comparable to higher stage of non-raid, and it can be now easily accessed from F5, troves, events, daily dash. Also, why should I waste a lot of blue scales going shadowforged/skyforged when it provide subpar performance? Don't tell me that blue scales are easy to come by. It is only easy to come by if you have A9+. And, you need a lot of them for other relevant gear, which is what non-raid path eats a lot.

its not whiteknighting, because its not a mistake. If you want me to explain it to you in simple language: raid path is supposed to be the MAIN path, which means it will always do more DPS than the alternative path. The alternative path is so you can reach the raid weapon at a given stage for cheaper the cost.

 

You can it "waste of materials" ok,  Lets take Grand Celestial and shadowforge. Would you rather go shadowforge stage 6 -> grand celestial 6 with using 46 onyx scales, 1 premium stone and 30 transformation stones (onyx scales drop like candy now) or would you spend 12 Premium stones + 130 transformation stones and a ton of steels top upgrade the raid path?

Just because something does not work out for YOU does not mean it doesnt work for others. My summoner went aransu 9 -> shadowforge stage 6 and i actually do more dps than with the aransu weapon simply because of the stacks. its not a huge increase but still cheaper than wasting materials and premium stones to go the grand celestial route. (i already have the weapon core, just need 9 more steels and i will be grand celestial 6)

[swordin]

upgrade path determines a progression towards an upgrade: even if the item gets worse and worse with intermediary upgrades, as long as its better than where it started by the end of the path, it has been upgraded by the path.

 

one thing this game has not translated into the NA community is the sense of discovery in the game’s design. partly because most if NA is dire poverty: “family has run off the scraps for centuries, game are waste if time, go and shovel coal in the mine.” while “coal miner boss” secretly pays themselves for keeping secrets, no matter the cost; not every player can afford thousands a month for an “entertainment”, therefore only a small percent are able to explore all paths available in the design. Also in part, to the difficulty in rushing a massive and translated product to a largely ravenous and gibbering populace.

 

I intend on speaking out more, but ill cease with this for now.

 

thank you all.

sincerely,

swordinswordin

[KIRBCHEK]

4 hours ago, Grimoir said:

You do realize you are comparing a stage 7 weapon with a stage 1 regardless if its a higher up tier, the effect is still "worse" than the stage 7 weapon.

Each time you change a weapon path you will notice a small dps drop but the more you upgrade the new weapon you will notice it becomes far superior than the previous tier.

This is no secret. the same happens if you swtich over from Aransu 9 to Shadowforge 3...you will notice a drop but the moment your shadowforge reaches stage 6 you will notices a slightly higher damage output.

 

For detroyers its a bit different but most other classes do not switch weapons for the lower stage ones. people farm materials so they can directly  go to stage 6 in one go.

 

Yes I understand what I am comparing. No I dont agree that people should experience a loss in DPS when upgrading, ever. A lower teir weapon should always do less damage than its evolved counterpart, period, no exceptions. Not protesting this outrage is the reason newcomers and f2p gamers are discouraged and quit because they see the game as being completely unaffordable, full of elitest toxic attitudes, and far too time consuming to be worth playing. Upgrade straight to stage 6 is for people who are willing to spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars on a game. The business plan behind this insanly broken upgrade system only benefits the whales and makes it impossible to enjoy the game from a f2p standpoint. If we dont make a stand now, on this matter as well as others, then the game will stop attracting new players and will most likely crumble slowly. Resulting in everyone loosing out on the hundreds if not thousands of hours of time and unknown ammounts of money.

 

I completely agree with swordin, something needs to be done. NA isnt packed with millions of wealthy people hopelessly glued to there computers every free moment they have. The game will suffer even greater losses if nothing is done to improve the gaming experience for people that have a family, job, and not a lot of time or money, but still want to game.

 

I for one dont want to see the game die due to overly greedy business practices that only benefit the wealthy gamer. So I speak up for what I feel is right.  When f2p gamers can take there weapons up one stage at a time and always see some improvement, there will be a slim glimmer of hope for a future. It would only be one step twards a greater goal. Currently the community is getting smaller and smaller, and its because of elitest attitudes like yours that expect people to just go straight to stage 6. Please understand that I truely enjoy this game and I make my protest solely to benefit all, I have zero selfish goals in this. Hoping that simple changes like improving the weapon evolution system so that an upgrade is actually an upgrade will keep new players encouraged to keep grinding.

[Grimoir]

4 hours ago, KIRBCHEK said:

 

Yes I understand what I am comparing. No I dont agree that people should experience a loss in DPS when upgrading, ever. A lower teir weapon should always do less damage than its evolved counterpart, period, no exceptions. Not protesting this outrage is the reason newcomers and f2p gamers are discouraged and quit because they see the game as being completely unaffordable, full of elitest toxic attitudes, and far too time consuming to be worth playing. Upgrade straight to stage 6 is for people who are willing to spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars on a game. The business plan behind this insanly broken upgrade system only benefits the whales and makes it impossible to enjoy the game from a f2p standpoint. If we dont make a stand now, on this matter as well as others, then the game will stop attracting new players and will most likely crumble slowly. Resulting in everyone loosing out on the hundreds if not thousands of hours of time and unknown ammounts of money.

 

I completely agree with swordin, something needs to be done. NA isnt packed with millions of wealthy people hopelessly glued to there computers every free moment they have. The game will suffer even greater losses if nothing is done to improve the gaming experience for people that have a family, job, and not a lot of time or money, but still want to game.

 

I for one dont want to see the game die due to overly greedy business practices that only benefit the wealthy gamer. So I speak up for what I feel is right.  When f2p gamers can take there weapons up one stage at a time and always see some improvement, there will be a slim glimmer of hope for a future. It would only be one step twards a greater goal. Currently the community is getting smaller and smaller, and its because of elitest attitudes like yours that expect people to just go straight to stage 6. Please understand that I truely enjoy this game and I make my protest solely to benefit all, I have zero selfish goals in this. Hoping that simple changes like improving the weapon evolution system so that an upgrade is actually an upgrade will keep new players encouraged to keep grinding.

1. I said "players SAVE UP ON MATERIALS so they can upgrade directly to stage 6" so no, upgrades straight to stage 6 are not for people who throw their wallets at a game, its for players who know what they want and have an idea how they want to get there and why.

 

So if you agree with swordin you also agree to this: :)

5 hours ago, swordin said:

upgrade path determines a progression towards an upgrade: even if the item gets worse and worse with intermediary upgrades, as long as its better than where it started by the end of the path, it has been upgraded by the path.

2. Are you even reading yourself here? Those alternative paths exist for f2p players so they can upgrade their weapons cheaper.

3. I am the last person to be elitist. I actually take people with much less gear on runs when they ask and help them.  also again you should read and udnerstand why i wrote. People farma nd save up materials to go in one swoop to stage 6 and not upgrade stage after stage after stage, because they did their research and they know a weapons true power is rng based on the stacks you get with it and how fast you can get them.

 

you need to understand WHY you feel less dps after the upgrade and this is what is tried to be explained to you. If i would upgrade Aransu stage 9 to grand celestial stage 9 i would also have a "dps loss" but only because of the weapon stacks. Once i get at least 2 stacks off it starts being far superior than the lower tier weapon.