When Will MSP be removed from Daily Challenge? When will Old Dungeons come back?

[prietess]

16 hours ago, Grimoir said:

I am not a loyal supporter, i am simply stating facts. Let me counter your question with a question:

 

you say "not everyone has the same time to play"....why do you want to force game changes to accomodate things are are influenced by your personal life?  Its not a game publishers business to change the game because someone due to his real life does not have the time to play. If companies did that there would be no games to play.

 

And i am not finger pointing because i know different people have different play times / real life stuff etc, i have that too, but i am not asking a game to change because my real life interferes with me playing. Do you realize how that sounds?

I would understand if doing a certain daily took hours, but it doesnt. teh dailies are already easy as they are even for lower geared people. Example todays daily:

Arena match

Beluga Lagoon

Mushin Floor 20

cold Storage

Irontech forge

MSP

Drowning Deeps

Celestial basin

 

Basin = 1, Mushin = 2, Cold Storage = 3. Done shouldnt take you more than 30 min at best to do these with end story gear.

tomorrow dailies:

Arena Match

Whirlwind Valley

Tomwer of Infinity

Outlaw Island

Heavens Mandate

MSP

Naryu Sanctum

Hollows Heart

Basin

shadowmoor

and again: basin = 1, TOI = 2, Heavens Mandate = 3 and you are done. If you dont have the white orb for mandate then do  Sanctum since its brainded with no mechs. and again 30 min ok for sanctum ill give 1h at most and you are done.

 

I have to say it really bugs me when people want a game to change or  blame the publisher because they do not have enough time to play or have a busy real life.

 

Grimoir, you are totally funny.

It is so "CLEVER" of you to take Daily challenge for today (Tuesday), when actually you could do yesterday (Monday).

Of course you would take Tuesday because that makes your argument look good......? >,>

Today I had no difficulty of completing DC because it is so easy. Like you said, Cold Storage + Tower of Infinity + Celestial Basin. PERFECT.

So iirc there was only like 2 days out of 7 days where you could have this kind of easy set of DC now, very different from the past whereby it was 7/7.

 

Why don't you take example of other days?

No need to take those days where you have to complete Starstone Mines (You will know if you play everyday), let me just take tomorrow  as an example (Wednesday), you have to complete Ebondrake Lair the easiest 3rd daily challenge, or else I think you need to do Starstone Mines and do you think it is easy?

You can't bluff me because I play everyday and I know all details of daily challenge.
Maybe you don't play everyday  and hence you can say all these? :P :P :P

Can you complete Ebondrake lair with all 6 players baleful or do LPF? Go ahead and try your luck.

If you get all 6 players Baleful, most likely you won't even pass Boss 1 (Master Samisa).
Not to say mini boss 2 (Harpy) where she has auto-die love-shot, which is easily missed by many new players.

 

About blaming the publisher, If the publisher changes the game to the worse, regardless of who are affected, shouldn't you argue about it? Unless you are not playing often :P :P :P

If you argue whether the game Dev team changed to the better or worse, then we can assess objectively. Because I am sure at least 50:50 people will agree that removing easy dungeons from daily challenge show more support to high-geared players and neglected the struggle of low-geared players to complete DC.

 

You said you countered me with that Question? LOL.

Let me ask you back, why do you think a Dev team of a game will make some changes to the game while it is making the players' life more difficult? This is not even about game content update (not patch or changing the dungeons' mech)

 

 

 

[prietess]

10 hours ago, Nahe said:

Oh I am sorry to read that you are experiencing issues with MSP. I am able to do 1-6 everyday with my geared chars and 1-3 no problem with less geared alts almost all the time during the day (unless it's very late, then yes, a little more complicated to gather 12 people quick). And the good thing is that people joining are more aware of the little mechanics involved:

- no more poison stacks (*) due to players rushing to kill Grassquatches while you are killing red adds;

- no more random thrasher spawning when boss is ready;

- boss attacks are being correctly reset by tank, always;

- gardening is done when party isn't geared enough to survive.

 

Overall it's not bad considering that you get rewarded with more than 12g (if premium) and it doesn't really take that long to do.

 

(*)Yes poison can be cleared with some skills or killing the Woodfields, still annoying though.

Are you playing at EST prime time?

Yesterday I tried to join MSP 1-3.

And the result is, 15 mins without being able to find enough 12 people to do. Needless to say those most of them who joined are low dps players (HM12-HM15 are 6/10, no HM18+ player at all).

Just to make sure I am not making up things,  the party lead name was Valeryonx or something like that, and he was recruiting like 4 hrs after reset time.

And server is Yura btw.

[FeralStripes]

I run NS-ST everyday, I DON'T run the new "Top 3" dungeons(TSM,DST,BC) forcing players to run MSP 1-3 with hm13 alt players fresh out of story takes way too long, NC needs to add more dungeons which would allow me to get my daily challange. For 2 weeks now I have been having to run MSP 1-3, we should have @ least 6-8 dungeon choices for daily challenge rewards! I'm gonna call it now- NC will start nerfing gold quest rewards you get from quest below "Big 3" Dungeons: which will make it harder for Free-Too-Play players to progress upgrading their gear!

[Nahe]

1 hour ago, prietess said:

And server is Yura btw.

I see the problem! I play in EU, sorry if I forgot to mention it

[Grimoir]

4 hours ago, prietess said:

Grimoir, you are totally funny.

It is so "CLEVER" of you to take Daily challenge for today (Tuesday), when actually you could do yesterday (Monday).

Of course you would take Tuesday because that makes your argument look good......? >,>

Today I had no difficulty of completing DC because it is so easy. Like you said, Cold Storage + Tower of Infinity + Celestial Basin. PERFECT.

So iirc there was only like 2 days out of 7 days where you could have this kind of easy set of DC now, very different from the past whereby it was 7/7.

 

Why don't you take example of other days?

No need to take those days where you have to complete Starstone Mines (You will know if you play everyday), let me just take tomorrow  as an example (Wednesday), you have to complete Ebondrake Lair the easiest 3rd daily challenge, or else I think you need to do Starstone Mines and do you think it is easy?

You can't bluff me because I play everyday and I know all details of daily challenge.
Maybe you don't play everyday  and hence you can say all these? :P :P :P

Can you complete Ebondrake lair with all 6 players baleful or do LPF? Go ahead and try your luck.

If you get all 6 players Baleful, most likely you won't even pass Boss 1 (Master Samisa).
Not to say mini boss 2 (Harpy) where she has auto-die love-shot, which is easily missed by many new players.

 

About blaming the publisher, If the publisher changes the game to the worse, regardless of who are affected, shouldn't you argue about it? Unless you are not playing often :P :P :P

If you argue whether the game Dev team changed to the better or worse, then we can assess objectively. Because I am sure at least 50:50 people will agree that removing easy dungeons from daily challenge show more support to high-geared players and neglected the struggle of low-geared players to complete DC.

 

You said you countered me with that Question? LOL.

Let me ask you back, why do you think a Dev team of a game will make some changes to the game while it is making the players' life more difficult? This is not even about game content update (not patch or changing the dungeons' mech)

 

 

I took those 2 days because those are the only days i could still see in the daily challenge interface. This has nothing to do with making my argument look good. If i could see all 7 days i would post all 7 days.

I play everyday but i dont do daily challenges sometimes because i prioritize what i want to do and get. Also Starstone Mines is much easier than Ebondrake Lair at least imo, and much faster.

 

As for the mechanics: if new players cant comprehend mechanics its on them. no reason to change the game because people cant grasp a simple harpy mechanic. If they mess up once they will know for next time.

 

Also, if changes are made for worse, then by all means, everyone can voice their opinion about it, as everyone has the right to do so, but you also have to be ready to accept that thers may think differently than you. In this case i do not think that changing the daily challenges made it more difficult.

In contrary, i think the changes should be made more often, this forces people to progress and actually upgrade gear instead of stagnating in those low level dungeons.

Daily challenge is supposed to be a reward for activity not a "freebie" for basically doing nothing.

 

 

 

 

[Dlacik]

2 hours ago, FeralStripes said:

I run NS-ST everyday, I DON'T run the new "Top 3" dungeons(TSM,DST,BC) forcing players to run MSP 1-3 with hm13 alt players fresh out of story takes way too long, NC needs to add more dungeons which would allow me to get my daily challange. For 2 weeks now I have been having to run MSP 1-3, we should have @ least 6-8 dungeon choices for daily challenge rewards! I'm gonna call it now- NC will start nerfing gold quest rewards you get from quest below "Big 3" Dungeons: which will make it harder for Free-Too-Play players to progress upgrading their gear!

There are always at least two daily challenge dungeons if you run NS-ST. The celestial basin quest is in daily challenge every day. Cold storage/heaven's mandate daily challenge is available every day. Solo dung/ToI daily challenge is also available every day.
I don't see a reason why you would be forced to do MSP.

[prietess]

1 hour ago, Grimoir said:

I took those 2 days because those are the only days i could still see in the daily challenge interface. This has nothing to do with making my argument look good. If i could see all 7 days i would post all 7 days.

I play everyday but i dont do daily challenges sometimes because i prioritize what i want to do and get. Also Starstone Mines is much easier than Ebondrake Lair at least imo, and much faster.

 

As for the mechanics: if new players cant comprehend mechanics its on them. no reason to change the game because people cant grasp a simple harpy mechanic. If they mess up once they will know for next time.

 

Also, if changes are made for worse, then by all means, everyone can voice their opinion about it, as everyone has the right to do so, but you also have to be ready to accept that thers may think differently than you. In this case i do not think that changing the daily challenges made it more difficult.

In contrary, i think the changes should be made more often, this forces people to progress and actually upgrade gear instead of stagnating in those low level dungeons.

Daily challenge is supposed to be a reward for activity not a "freebie" for basically doing nothing.

 

 

 

 

You can check all 7days first and try to list down in your detailed list and see if what I said is true.

You will see that most of the days you have to complete dungeons above NS (or MSP) in order to complete DC.

 

Your statements are a bit contradicting above....?

Since you said "you think changes should be made more often-> forces people to upgrade gear and progress" --> doesn't this mean that changes are made into more difficult options?

but before that you said 'you dont think the changes in DC made it more difficult'

 

I am ready to accept different point of view and that's why I offer a plausible explanation for the reason behind this change.

The explanation is that NCSoft (and whoever supports them about this matter like you) made (or support) this change (including DST/TSM and excluding Lair/Citadel/DesolateTomb/AvalancheDen) because they are more supportive to high-geared players without taking into account of low-geared players who are affected. Just as what you stated yourself in this message by saying that this changes forces people to progress and upgrade gears.

 

[Grimoir]

1 hour ago, prietess said:

You can check all 7days first and try to list down in your detailed list and see if what I said is true.

You will see that most of the days you have to complete dungeons above NS (or MSP) in order to complete DC.

 

Your statements are a bit contradicting above....?

Since you said "you think changes should be made more often-> forces people to upgrade gear and progress" --> doesn't this mean that changes are made into more difficult options?

but before that you said 'you dont think the changes in DC made it more difficult'

 

I am ready to accept different point of view and that's why I offer a plausible explanation for the reason behind this change.

The explanation is that NCSoft (and whoever supports them about this matter like you) made (or support) this change (including DST/TSM and excluding Lair/Citadel/DesolateTomb/AvalancheDen) because they are more supportive to high-geared players without taking into account of low-geared players who are affected. Just as what you stated yourself in this message by saying that this changes forces people to progress and upgrade gears.

 

No, i do not think that forcing people to progress makes it more difficult, what it does is making sure people progress for the new content that will come.

The more content gets released the more things shift towards it and older things get replaced / abandoned.

Finishing the story and a tiny bit of extra farming in basin can easily get you to Riftwalk stage 3 (if not more) which is more than enough for the daily challenges which you state are more difficult. Lair/ Citadel / DT / Den were all dungeons from Silverfrost. We are now past that in gunwon and solak, thats the current content hence daily challenges are adjusted to that.

 

[Kozuki]

The awakening skill patch which is speculated to be released next month (by players based on F11 deadline) will resolve any DPS problem that needs for tackling current daily challenges.

 

To make it short, the patch will increase your DPS by A LOT, depend on classes. If you are can clear F20 Mushin at Baleful 1, then imagine you can do the same, that but with x3 the speed.

 

If anything, NCWest has pushed out this list of daily challenge a little bit TOO SOON.

[Bacote]

wish EC, DT and NF still have DC... because its help me a lot when i start playing 2 month ago...

[MassiveEgo]

6 hours ago, Grimoir said:

Finishing the story and a tiny bit of extra farming in basin can easily get you to Riftwalk stage 3 (if not more) which is more than enough for the daily challenges which you state are more difficult. Lair/ Citadel / DT / Den were all dungeons from Silverfrost. We are now past that in gunwon and solak, thats the current content hence daily challenges are adjusted to that.

I think there is a stigma that these higher dungeons such as the EL-ST train are super hard, which is totally not true, especially when it comes to normal mode. In fact most of the runs we do, there's at least one token hm14, who politely asks if he/she can stay for the run. People just assign them simplest roles for the mechanics, since they still need to contribute. Imo people are just afraid to give it a go and take it to heart when they get kicked out of a lobby. I'd say keep trying.

[prietess]

12 hours ago, Bacote said:

wish EC, DT and NF still have DC... because its help me a lot when i start playing 2 month ago...

 

 

It helped me a lot when I started this game. Rather than being scolded stupid/moron/monkey at NS for hitting the Adds/died to last boss, I would rather do those low level dungeons.

Now it helped my Alts to complete DC.

 

Like everyone agrees, we all have our own pace to progress. So why want to remove the easy DC and add the difficult ones?

Don't talk about MSP again because it just takes very long with 30-40k dps or not enough people to start one.

 

If you ask me now, obviously NS is like as easy as flipping my palm. IF/EL is very easy mech too.

All dungeons mech are easy for me now. But if I try to recall how I was, I was so afraid to do IF/EL because I kept dying/failed mech and people got mad at me. Needless to say having to repeat many times to complete EL 1st boss with low dps party (enrage timer ticked).

 

[prietess]

18 hours ago, MassiveEgo said:

I think there is a stigma that these higher dungeons such as the EL-ST train are super hard, which is totally not true, especially when it comes to normal mode. In fact most of the runs we do, there's at least one token hm14, who politely asks if he/she can stay for the run. People just assign them simplest roles for the mechanics, since they still need to contribute. Imo people are just afraid to give it a go and take it to heart when they get kicked out of a lobby. I'd say keep trying.

I agree that EL-ST are not hard, depending on whether you have DPS or not.

I run trains everyday NS->BC and they feel easy now at this point. But it was like super crazy hard in my mind when I started this game, when I couldnt even complete NS with no failure in Mech, and have no DPS and no gear required by F8.

 

about the last point. Some people take it into heart, like me. ( I Don't think I deserve to be mocked at for this )

I would rather quit the game than always getting kicked (i am not accepted by community) or kept getting scolded in party (i am not good enough for the game)

I play the game to have FUN, not to get stressed. And when people don't want my existence and keep scolding me, I get stressed (in the past).

 

You can blame me for being weak emotionally or stupid intellectually (game brain), but I am sure there are other players like me, they also contribute to the company. Why don't you also think about this kind of players and try to accomodate them (which you already did before you removed the easy dungeons DC)?

 

 

[MassiveEgo]

@prietess
First paragraph. It all comes down to how you break down the mechanics in your mind. If you separate them into different pieces, like say the death zone in TSM, then the puddles, then the cutting laser, then the iframe timing and see them as separate mechs, you simply need to remember their arrangement. People usually see a guide and remember the mechanics as this monolith of things that will happen and in their mind they all happen at the same time. It's a classic issue when it comes to learning;

 

Second paragraph. In the grand scheme of things, it hardly matters. If someone gives you the boot, they simply don't think you're good enough for their lobby, not that you are not good enough for the dungeon. Afterall party leaders are the ones who decide the party composition based on what kind of run they want to achieve. I get kicked on my weaker alts when trying to do stuff above DD. And I know why - my alts are near worthless dps wise in a party where the weakest player beside me does almost 3 times my sustained dps;

 

Third paragraph. I'll tell you my observation as to why people (myself included) don't acommodate weakness in general. First, because it's just a step on a very, very long staircase. Second, because that's extra work. And it vets people into thinking that they'll be catered to and that not improving and diminishing or completely eliminating one's weakness is alright. We all want to be lazy. You can't honestly expect someone else to put in more effort so you can chill without doing anything. Since we are all the main characters in our lives, this applies for all of us. It's simply bad etiquette. So in the end, the extra work falls on the shoulders of the one who has the problem.

On the point about the daily challence easy dungeons, Imo it's a step in the right direction, cause people will slowly shift towards the more complex content. If people stay in the EC-NS bracket, they'll get burned out by it's boring nature sooner or later. No daily challenge from that bracket gives them the opportunity to expand their knowledge. You fail the harpy 2-3 times, eventually someone will tell you how it works. If you ask, someone will tell you how it works. Trust me, /f chat literally has nothing better to do. You can always find someone there to literally dump you a mechanics manual for anything and everything. You just need to have the motivation to learn. Also, people in dungeons flip out when mechs are failed, mostly because of people who don't say they're new and don't know things, but rather stay quiet and fail while everybody else is under the assumption they know what they're doing. Just say you've never done it and in 9/10 cases you can still cram through. Ofc not every party would take you places. Some people are running daily trains on more than one alt and that's a mighty time consumer with little room for wipes. And I can tell... people run out of patience in RT and TSM all the time, mostly cause a clear explanation takes like 2 minutes per boss if you try to structure it in a way that isn't overwhelming. But I think everybody knows it's better this way. Today you teach someone how to deal with one mech. Tomorrow they run another mech. In a week they know all the mechs and are now part of the knowing part. Community progress.

 

As for the "intellectually stupid" part. I don't think that it's a thing. Ofc, every brain is different, but as long as there's any semblance of spatial awareness in there, I think the person in question can play this game juuuust fine.

[JoannaRamira]

It should still be there.  Just need more people  so that one can always get party and get something done.  or shift Draken core spawnings on those dailies. so IF will drop both Draken and Hellion cores. Then we can say goodbye to DT etc.

 

and yeah actually having those old dg back is good idea so that at least people can have easier time finding people to get their shares of draken cores.

[prietess]

14 hours ago, MassiveEgo said:

 

On the point about the daily challence easy dungeons, Imo it's a step in the right direction, cause people will slowly shift towards the more complex content. If people stay in the EC-NS bracket, they'll get burned out by it's boring nature sooner or later. No daily challenge from that bracket gives them the opportunity to expand their knowledge. You fail the harpy 2-3 times, eventually someone will tell you how it works. If you ask, someone will tell you how it works. Trust me, /f chat literally has nothing better to do. You can always find someone there to literally dump you a mechanics manual for anything and everything. You just need to have the motivation to learn. Also, people in dungeons flip out when mechs are failed, mostly because of people who don't say they're new and don't know things, but rather stay quiet and fail while everybody else is under the assumption they know what they're doing. Just say you've never done it and in 9/10 cases you can still cram through. Ofc not every party would take you places. Some people are running daily trains on more than one alt and that's a mighty time consumer with little room for wipes. And I can tell... people run out of patience in RT and TSM all the time, mostly cause a clear explanation takes like 2 minutes per boss if you try to structure it in a way that isn't overwhelming. But I think everybody knows it's better this way. Today you teach someone how to deal with one mech. Tomorrow they run another mech. In a week they know all the mechs and are now part of the knowing part. Community progress.

 

If you do F8 often, You should know that 9/10 people that don't have "gear" will either bluff that they know the mech or doesn't want to answer anything when being asked whether you know the Mech.

I don't despise people who asks for A6 for RT/ST. Not that you require A6 to complete the dungeon, but having A6 confirms that you actually completed VT raid a few times and there is very high chance that you will not fail mech.

Having A3 can be easily from Carry run/Trove nowadays, so, even if I don't run RT/ST or many dungeons pug on my mains, I can understand why are the people asking for those. Because time is precious. People want to complete the dungeon in one run.

 

There are two sides of the part where you said 'its a step in right direction'. I agree that people must grow and have motivation to learn.

But if they don't have time for that now or just simply don't care, they must not be 'forced' too.

Like for my case, I had a step-up in my BnS career naturally when I had friends who taught me and forgave me when I failed mech for first few runs of new dungeons that I never completed.

But as you already know, it is not easy for every new player to get those 'friends'. I actually played for 3 months myself before I really had some friends who are patient and helpful.

 

Before I had those friends? I was very content when I could do EC/DT/Lair/Avalanche to complete my DC and get some materials + 5G per day. Without DC, I was literally so broke and weak that I could only make 2g per day (from EC/DT). Without Gold/Mats how to progress naturally? P2W it is.

 

 

[prietess]

14 hours ago, JoannaRamira said:

It should still be there.  Just need more people  so that one can always get party and get something done.  or shift Draken core spawnings on those dailies. so IF will drop both Draken and Hellion cores. Then we can say goodbye to DT etc.

 

and yeah actually having those old dg back is good idea so that at least people can have easier time finding people to get their shares of draken cores.

I agree MSP can still be there if the same number of people / geared people (Raven+) from the MSP event run this MSP daily.

 

Thank you for supporting the idea of having those old dungeons back.

[matthew]

On 2/11/2019 at 9:58 PM, Grimoir said:

People stick to those easy old dungeons and do not progress.

Why do you think they're not progressing? I dont beleive its laziness as i myself am currently at a brick wall and having no success in passing it. I cant find groups to run dungeons. Those groups i do find are with other weak players who dont stick around or quit while still in looking to fill the group. I have a couple of friends i play with. 1 of Whom is absolutely traumatised by his experiences with Foundry, Lair to actually run them ever again. Some dungeons and mechanics just arent fun and the reliance on some classes to do all the work (kfms tank, buffs etc) that make these mechanics trivial compared to others.

On 2/12/2019 at 8:55 PM, Grimoir said:

so maybe instead of complaining about daily challenges it would be better to suggest daily quests which are easier for newer players to do that reward them with solar energies instead of making them a daily challenge reward. Having a clan also helps a lot which most people think is overrated, but truth be told, a clan, especially a good clan will help you more than any game changes.

Remember when even blue dungeons were part of daily challenge? Those days were fun and even though they were blue dungeons players were still getting killed by mobs and mechanics.

How exactly did we get to this point we are at now though where we basically need Aransu/raven to find groups to clear the dc?

[Grimoir]

3 hours ago, matthew said:

How exactly did we get to this point we are at now though where we basically need Aransu/raven to find groups to clear the dc?

We didnt. Its player mentality and not a game issue. People with X gear make parties around said X gear, and prefer not to accept people with lower gear than theirs. also it is a well knows fact that newer players or lower geared players look for a free carry, Perfect example of it is when you run an easy dungeons and they dont even know what a stun or jump is and then they die.

Personally, they should remove the option to inspect ones gear, and add actuall criteria to dungeons that are not just AP based. Maybe then something would change .

[Showta]

Lord.

 

Stop pugging so much.

NA/EU players act like they're allergic to meeting new people or something.

Having like 3 friends will never be enough. Put yourself out there. Network.

Join discords where people ping everyone for daily trains.

You're in a guild that doesn't ping everyone for dailies? Leave it and find one then.

"How do I meet people??" Talk. With your fingers, on the keyboard. Type words. Type them when you F8 and the party is good and you want to keep going with some of them, type them in faction, type them in weeklies raids. Say words to other human beings and they will in turn invite you to more things. Yes they will also offer to carry your badly geared alts so long as you offer to help carry theirs.

[prietess]

On 2/16/2019 at 8:43 PM, Showta said:

Lord.

 

Stop pugging so much.

NA/EU players act like they're allergic to meeting new people or something.

Having like 3 friends will never be enough. Put yourself out there. Network.

Join discords where people ping everyone for daily trains.

You're in a guild that doesn't ping everyone for dailies? Leave it and find one then.

"How do I meet people??" Talk. With your fingers, on the keyboard. Type words. Type them when you F8 and the party is good and you want to keep going with some of them, type them in faction, type them in weeklies raids. Say words to other human beings and they will in turn invite you to more things. Yes they will also offer to carry your badly geared alts so long as you offer to help carry theirs.

Lord.

Said is easier than done.

 

You try to check discords RR recruitment for clan and see if any good clans recruit for anything below Raven.

Mainly Only social discord are welcoming anyone.

 

Type words in F8 when you are with baleful?
Go ahead and try it, before you finish typing while trying to be friendly and ask politely to join, most of the time you would have been kicked.

 

Don't misunderstand, I agree with you to some extent. That was how I grew when I was new. I received help from some kind guy to whom I asked many questions and helped me to give basic stuff for upgrading like a few Transformation Stones.

 

But, in my opinion, the chance of having my situation is low. And needless to say about the scarcity. And about matching the time to play. It is basically just non-practical.

What is practical is grow 'naturally' without being pushed to the level that you are not there yet.

And growing naturally means completing DC, get ~6-8g per day, some materials, upgrading to Raven slowly. Then try slowly to climb up.

So in my opinion, this is more practical, not some fairy tale ideal situation that is too good to have for every single new player and Alts.

[prietess]

On 2/16/2019 at 4:17 PM, matthew said:

Why do you think they're not progressing? I dont beleive its laziness as i myself am currently at a brick wall and having no success in passing it. I cant find groups to run dungeons. Those groups i do find are with other weak players who dont stick around or quit while still in looking to fill the group. I have a couple of friends i play with. 1 of Whom is absolutely traumatised by his experiences with Foundry, Lair to actually run them ever again. Some dungeons and mechanics just arent fun and the reliance on some classes to do all the work (kfms tank, buffs etc) that make these mechanics trivial compared to others.

I can totally relate to this.

I have a friend who has Aransu 5 weapon and all accessories stage 10 (BT/Tiger/Eternity/King Gloves/VT necklace/VT badge) but refused to do VT because of the trauma of failing for a few times and got scolded by the raid. She just bought carry runs.

 

You want to blame that she is weak mentally? I think that is not wise, she is just she is. She also just wants to complete easy daily challenge everyday and then do longer ones in the weekend when she has more time.

She has her own pace and her own motivation, we shouldn't push or set a standard of how she should play and grow her character.

 

Remember that there are weak people, rich people, new people, etc etc that form this community. And I think it is our developer job to maintain that everyone has his basic need (daily challenge) fulfilled with ease, because daily challenge is one of the main motivation to login and play the game. People have their own pace to grow, why should we force them to? or even blame them for not having initiative to grow?

 

Furthermore, I am of the opinion that we need new players to sustain and what was removed is just what new players need to start growing their joy and love for this game.

[Grimoir]

2 hours ago, prietess said:

I can totally relate to this.

I have a friend who has Aransu 5 weapon and all accessories stage 10 (BT/Tiger/Eternity/King Gloves/VT necklace/VT badge) but refused to do VT because of the trauma of failing for a few times and got scolded by the raid. She just bought carry runs.

 

You want to blame that she is weak mentally? I think that is not wise, she is just she is. She also just wants to complete easy daily challenge everyday and then do longer ones in the weekend when she has more time.

She has her own pace and her own motivation, we shouldn't push or set a standard of how she should play and grow her character.

 

Remember that there are weak people, rich people, new people, etc etc that form this community. And I think it is our developer job to maintain that everyone has his basic need (daily challenge) fulfilled with ease, because daily challenge is one of the main motivation to login and play the game. People have their own pace to grow, why should we force them to? or even blame them for not having initiative to grow?

 

Furthermore, I am of the opinion that we need new players to sustain and what was removed is just what new players need to start growing their joy and love for this game.

I think you are confusing something here.

The developer / publisher is not his job to give people freebies. they set a daily challenge and as the game progresses / content is released the challenges get updated for the content. Its the players responsibility to follow it with their gear upgrades. The challenges are by no way hard, some may be a bit more time consuming but they arent hard. And it is definetely not the developers or publishers job to change the game for you because you have limited time to play.

I could see changes if the challenges were actually too hard, but they arent. People are just too spiled and used to easy cheesy stuff that when something more demanding comes they rather shout and complain instead of actually putting in a bit of work and effort.

[Jaspix]

21 hours ago, Grimoir said:

I think you are confusing something here.

The developer / publisher is not his job to give people freebies. they set a daily challenge and as the game progresses / content is released the challenges get updated for the content. Its the players responsibility to follow it with their gear upgrades. The challenges are by no way hard, some may be a bit more time consuming but they arent hard. And it is definetely not the developers or publishers job to change the game for you because you have limited time to play.

I could see changes if the challenges were actually too hard, but they arent. People are just too spiled and used to easy cheesy stuff that when something more demanding comes they rather shout and complain instead of actually putting in a bit of work and effort.

I don't really see logic in your reasoning, you say people are given freebies with low gear dungeons and at the same time pointing out that there are still some easy CHALLENGES for baleful players. So you are in the perspective of an end game player that can easily clear those dungeons but also they could clear those other easy challenges like CB, Cold Storage/Mushin, ToI. So what's the difference? should we remove also those from CD because they are just freebies?. This game is not only about end game/geared players who can run every content in the game, it's also about the new players who just joined few months ago and still getting familiarized with the game. Decisions like this it's what have scared new players away, now they face directly people asking for A3 to clear NS.

 

On 18/2/2019 at 3:57 AM, prietess said:

I can totally relate to this.

I have a friend who has Aransu 5 weapon and all accessories stage 10 (BT/Tiger/Eternity/King Gloves/VT necklace/VT badge) but refused to do VT because of the trauma of failing for a few times and got scolded by the raid. She just bought carry runs.

 

You want to blame that she is weak mentally? I think that is not wise, she is just she is. She also just wants to complete easy daily challenge everyday and then do longer ones in the weekend when she has more time.

She has her own pace and her own motivation, we shouldn't push or set a standard of how she should play and grow her character.

 

Remember that there are weak people, rich people, new people, etc etc that form this community. And I think it is our developer job to maintain that everyone has his basic need (daily challenge) fulfilled with ease, because daily challenge is one of the main motivation to login and play the game. People have their own pace to grow, why should we force them to? or even blame them for not having initiative to grow?

 

Furthermore, I am of the opinion that we need new players to sustain and what was removed is just what new players need to start growing their joy and love for this game.

I can relate to that, my sister and I ran IF many times when gearing up and we wiped so many times and she got so much blame (800AP at that time) she got traumatized and didn't want to run that dungeon again . Everyone has their own pace and play style and the developer's time should keep the playerbase in mind before attempting any changes to the game. 

 

I don't mind adding high level dungeons to DC but I don't see the point of constantly outdating the game's content, so much dungeons with fun mechanics are left alone cause no players to play with (no new players lole) and no excuse to run it since they are not in DC. Solo players are a huge portion of the playerbase and they are most likely to join F8 just to see how demanding the community could be (A3 for NS? serioulsy? lmao) and since this game doesn't really offer many option for communication between players (clans can help but they also lack many features) is almost impossible to do anything and just log off kinda frustrated. I don't really see the point on removing variety for the things to do in this game, even Windrest could be a freaking daily since it's probably as time consuming as CB or Cold storage.

[Grimoir]

3 hours ago, Jaspix said:

I don't really see logic in your reasoning, you say people are given freebies with low gear dungeons and at the same time pointing out that there are still some easy CHALLENGES for baleful players. So you are in the perspective of an end game player that can easily clear those dungeons but also they could clear those other easy challenges like CB, Cold Storage/Mushin, ToI. So what's the difference? should we remove also those from CD because they are just freebies?. This game is not only about end game/geared players who can run every content in the game, it's also about the new players who just joined few months ago and still getting familiarized with the game. Decisions like this it's what have scared new players away, now they face directly people asking for A3 to clear NS.

My perspective is froma  player who ran those dungeons with by far worse gear than you end up from the story currently back when these dungeons originally released. You say this game is not all about geared people, it works the other way too, this game is not just all about new players and people not wanting to upgrade and progress.

 

3 hours ago, Jaspix said:

I don't mind adding high level dungeons to DC but I don't see the point of constantly outdating the game's content, so much dungeons with fun mechanics are left alone cause no players to play with (no new players lole) and no excuse to run it since they are not in DC. Solo players are a huge portion of the playerbase and they are most likely to join F8 just to see how demanding the community could be (A3 for NS? serioulsy? lmao) and since this game doesn't really offer many option for communication between players (clans can help but they also lack many features) is almost impossible to do anything and just log off kinda frustrated. I don't really see the point on removing variety for the things to do in this game, even Windrest could be a freaking daily since it's probably as time consuming as CB or Cold storage.

Have you maybe considered that the issue is not that there arent "new" players but maybe that those new players progressed beyond that point already?

F8 is where you can make cross server lobbies. If someone makes a party asking for Aransu 9 they have the right to do so, if someone asks for a party with aransu 3 they can do so. The same way as any new player can go in there and make their own party with Baleful 10 or dawn / rift 3, but hey they dont. you want to know why? because they dont want to learn, they rather hook themselves onto some whales to get an easy clear.

 

Personally i think this game should have level scaling like guild wars 2 has. where if you enter a low level dungeon your attack is scaled to that dungeons level.