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Solo area difficulty

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Wataru   
Posted (edited)

Master Hong and Den of the Ancients are really troublesome. They have seemingly no attack patterns and punishing skills including range checks. I know there is a pattern, however many players are left-handed right side brain people and patterns aren't their strong point. 

 

Ultimately solo areas would be closer to Outlaw Island where the mechanics and easy to see differentiating attacks string together what to do for the player. Outlaw Island was far more challenging than how newer areas are punishing. If that cannot be done then I'll list out possible suggestions:

 

Simplify attack patterns by removing attacks

Offer more tokens or fragments to the store

Solo area general nerfs or damage reductions

Make first or second bosses have higher drop rates of fragments or a low chance of full token

 

I suppose what I want isn't making it easier exactly, but less punishing and easier to learn different people. 

Edited by Wataru
Bad spelling

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RavTH   

Master Hong is doable with meh gear
but if you want to do Den then I would suggest you either whale up for a max soul or not do the content at all.

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Kozuki   

I don't mind challenges if they are justified. I clear Master Hong and Ma'o after countless hours of wiping and learning. However, there are something that bugs me when attempts those solo contents:

 

-All of these bosses have ranged check which deal heavy damage. Some ranged classes (Summoner and Warlock, to be more specific) have their escape skills that move away from bosses, which just trigger another ranged check. Unless you're fast enough to predict your own doom and turn your back against the boss so that your escape moves go behind the boss instead. "Out of the fire into the frying pan" is a good phrase for this situation: it ends badly, whether you use escape skills or not.

 

-Master Hong and Ma'o can be proved very hard to clear with high-ping, unless you know the trick. Apparently, these bosses have a suction attack for their mech and you have to be quick with F roll + SS away in order to not eat punishment. However, some classes have very long-animation F roll (Summoner), and high-ping makes them unable to do F roll+SS successfully for half of the time, turning the fight into a RNG with server connection. There is a trick to deal with this, but since it is a trick, it may prove unsuccessful to pull off in future similar contents.

 

-Long range escape moves again proves to be fatal. Some attacks have a cone shape which can be easily avoid by side-stepping at melee range. However, if you resort to use escape skills and move away from bosses, the situation becomes worse cuz you enter the bigger area of the cone, thus make it harder to avoid the attack.

 

-Warden is a cheat class. These bosses are very deadly cuz of their CC, and Warden just outright ignore them. There are still a few dangerous attacks that need to be manually avoid, but for most of the time, Warden just shrug everything off. It takes my Summoner a lot of time to memorize and practice reaction against Ma'o. Meanwhile, my Warden can just waltz in clear her within 30 minutes of learning. Sure, I guess it is the class' privilege, but I feel it is super unfair.

 

These things make solo contents more frustrating than hard, and reduce the usefulness of some classes' escape skills.

 

What I can suggestion to improve quality of these contents are:

 

-Make boss take a little longer before executing their ranged check so that players can have time move closer. Or just provide Summoner and WL with options for short range F roll and Tab escape.

 

-Make Summoner's F roll land faster so that F roll + SS combo becomes more feasible for high-ping players. Remember that this region is in English language, so players who know English around the world tend to flock here.

 

-Actually make it challenging for Warden too, instead of just letting them putting down Blade Ward and DPS without even moving.

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Don't worry, it's just a new trend in this game - to hide best gear behind the content which in no sane mind can be called "fun" (I can't imagine how CoS or Den can be fun with that near perma-CC applied by bosses). 

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Slirpee   

I find hong/CoS more annoying and unforgiving than Den.  Even with 3 of my stronger characters if I make a mistake on the mech phase by misreading where the death zone will be you die instantly and have to do it all over again.  For Den the only issue is the dps requirements.  It's more recoverable though than CoS if you know which skill is going to CC you and what the next attack will most likely be.  I did a test of Den for what the dps requirements are and used a Raven geared alt and cleared it with ~218K dps.  Also CoS bosses have more fixed patterns than Den.

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ave4   
On 1/9/2019 at 9:24 AM, Dellecross said:

Don't worry, it's just a new trend in this game - to hide best gear behind the content which in no sane mind can be called "fun" (I can't imagine how CoS or Den can be fun with that near perma-CC applied by bosses). 

Its just your opinion. I enjoy the difficulties and how I can do it easily after I learned it perfectly. I just dislike that u have to farm Den for too many ( 25 ) of those tokens if you want the new pve neck though. If they lower the amount but u have to clear the whole thing to get tokens it would be perfect for me. 

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On 1/8/2019 at 2:39 PM, RavTH said:

Master Hong is doable with meh gear
but if you want to do Den then I would suggest you either whale up for a max soul or not do the content at all.

Yes, because you need max soul to do 200k dps LOL

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On 1/8/2019 at 5:21 PM, Kozuki said:

I don't mind challenges if they are justified. I clear Master Hong and Ma'o after countless hours of wiping and learning. However, there are something that bugs me when attempts those solo contents:

 

-All of these bosses have ranged check which deal heavy damage. Some ranged classes (Summoner and Warlock, to be more specific) have their escape skills that move away from bosses, which just trigger another ranged check. Unless you're fast enough to predict your own doom and turn your back against the boss so that your escape moves go behind the boss instead. "Out of the fire into the frying pan" is a good phrase for this situation: it ends badly, whether you use escape skills or not.

 

-Master Hong and Ma'o can be proved very hard to clear with high-ping, unless you know the trick. Apparently, these bosses have a suction attack for their mech and you have to be quick with F roll + SS away in order to not eat punishment. However, some classes have very long-animation F roll (Summoner), and high-ping makes them unable to do F roll+SS successfully for half of the time, turning the fight into a RNG with server connection. There is a trick to deal with this, but since it is a trick, it may prove unsuccessful to pull off in future similar contents.

 

-Long range escape moves again proves to be fatal. Some attacks have a cone shape which can be easily avoid by side-stepping at melee range. However, if you resort to use escape skills and move away from bosses, the situation becomes worse cuz you enter the bigger area of the cone, thus make it harder to avoid the attack.

 

-Warden is a cheat class. These bosses are very deadly cuz of their CC, and Warden just outright ignore them. There are still a few dangerous attacks that need to be manually avoid, but for most of the time, Warden just shrug everything off. It takes my Summoner a lot of time to memorize and practice reaction against Ma'o. Meanwhile, my Warden can just waltz in clear her within 30 minutes of learning. Sure, I guess it is the class' privilege, but I feel it is super unfair.

 

These things make solo contents more frustrating than hard, and reduce the usefulness of some classes' escape skills.

 

What I can suggestion to improve quality of these contents are:

 

-Make boss take a little longer before executing their ranged check so that players can have time move closer. Or just provide Summoner and WL with options for short range F roll and Tab escape.

 

-Make Summoner's F roll land faster so that F roll + SS combo becomes more feasible for high-ping players. Remember that this region is in English language, so players who know English around the world tend to flock here.

 

-Actually make it challenging for Warden too, instead of just letting them putting down Blade Ward and DPS without even moving.

We also want cat/thrall to tank for us.

 

-Sincerely, other classes.

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i understand what you say. this solo dungeon (den) even hard gc3 weopon and cosmic soul. For new necklace you need 25 token :D. its really hard. Yes i farm this necklace i have it allready. But its hard this is real. I recommend to you you can farm this only kill First boss. I farm it this necklace like this i kill it only first boss. i see 11 gloves in first boss. and this is took my 1 week @Wataru. I have new necklace normally i must say no this solo dungeon not hard its easy :D right? haha

Edited by 817023_1452549911

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Rhiakath   
On 1/14/2019 at 1:43 AM, Arcadeath said:

We also want cat/thrall to tank for us.

 

-Sincerely, other classes.

Bahahahahahaha, WTT proper tab escape for 1 second thrall taunt

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Grimoir   
On 1/14/2019 at 12:43 AM, Arcadeath said:

We also want cat/thrall to tank for us.

 

-Sincerely, other classes.

sure but then your thralls / cats all get the CC skills that now you have so you wont be able to cc the boss yourself anymore. Fair is fair ^^

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Kozuki   
On 1/14/2019 at 6:43 AM, Arcadeath said:

We also want cat/thrall to tank for us.

 

-Sincerely, other classes.

Here is a fun things about summoner:

 

-To make up for having cat tanking, Summoner has very unreliable escape/dodge skills to deal with solo bosses. Check the rant on long-range escape above. Other classes, while lacking something to tank for them, have an array of reliable kit to avoid attack. Heck, I would trade my cat for shorter cooldown of counter, or another reliable escape skill, or the ability to CC her on my sum without the cat. Let not talk about Warden. That class just outright negate all CCs.

 

-Summoner is forced to use the cat during Ma'o. Sometimes, your counter will not recover fast enough to block a deadly CC of hers, which is homing at you so you cannot walk out of them, leave you a sitting-duck for next attack. So you need your cat to not eat bleed or trigger range check. Sure, you can SS/E/X or whatever for extra protection, but remember that you also need these long-cooldown skills to survive her mech. Let hope that your usage of these skills aren't overlapping with the moments when you really need them to save your hide.

 

-If you think that summoner can just stay behind the boss and dps freely, prepare to eat at least 5 stack of bleed when she suddenly turns away from the cat and throw the disc at you. And mech phase, yeah, she ignores the cat and all out at you. Yeah, you have to learn her pattern, like every other classes, and adapt to her attacks without your own kit. No skipping.

42 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

sure but then your thralls / cats all get the CC skills that now you have so you wont be able to cc the boss yourself anymore. Fair is fair ^^

 

-Summoner's cat is very RNG. Sometimes, it refuses to respond to your command cuz it is busy spinning that giant hammer. I saw countless deaths just cuz it refuses to do its CC job properly. Thrall is the same. At least a Warlock can do some CC on his own. Summoner has every CC on its "so-reliable" cat.

 

-

Edited by Kozuki

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Misaki   

As a warlock main Den of Ancients is really punishing. I dont talk just about the last boss eather all of the 3 are quite hard for warlock.

Firstly lets see why this place is so punishing for warlock. All of them does nasty CC attacks. Yes we have sanctum which doesnt protect against knockback or knockup which these bosses practise and second it has long cooldown and wont last through out the fight its small protection we get but after that we are on our own. We have block but have you ever though about what is annoying about the warlock block? It has small cooldown and another little thing we have to stop attacking for our block to work. So sometimes i block and still get hit because simply my dragoncall was still casting and my block didnt cast and here comes the punishment. Second all of these 3 bosses are easier if you have Q and E  which warlock doesnt have. We have SS which ends up getting us killed if used wrong and we have bastion which usually we have to save to a certain attack they do so we are relying on our block mostly to survive and 25 movement speed points. Now lets talk about the last boss. She has this nice room wide aoe which is simple enough to dodge if you have Q and E but think about it from our perspective we have to SS which still might get us hit since its multilayered skill so im usually using SS + 1F or our bastion which means worse case scenario we dont have bastion for the phases where its the most useful. Her CC phase where you have to eather stun first and KD first and then stun or kd is for us also quite annoying you can guess why? Because our Stun cc is on our thrall. Ive died multiple times to one reason only My thrall doesnt jump fast enough and the cc fails. For summoner this is probably challenging fight but summoners have 2 things going that we dont. You have cat that can tank small period of time and the cat doesnt at least shouldnt die that easily, and summoners can pin her down giving them more time to dps freely. Thrall on the otherhand isnt a tank and wont stay up forever. Most solo dungeons are made for classes with Q and E iframes or warlocks that can just burst down the bosses with their 1 mil dps check so they dont have to worry about mechanics. I'm not even going to talk about warden since this class should be removed from the game or at least given a heavy nerf.  I know im gonna get comments like learn to play but ive killed these bosses multiple times and im 100% sure i would have easier time playing for example Fm here. 

Edited by Misaki

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