Why is the raven path upgrade not getting any discount instead will cost more?

[genbrutal]

Let's say you are buying all your materials. This is based on the low end of the average prices right now. This will be the calculation. How come the counterpart of the weapon Riftwalk and Dawnforge are getting their Premium Stones remove from the upgrade cost? Upgrading a Raven weapon is like upgrading an Aransu weapon with 1 and 2 Premium stone needed on each levels. Having a Raven weapon will cost you more. Majority of the community has a raven weapon. Please remove the Premium Transformation Stone requirements to par with its weapon counterpart.

 

Raven 7->8->9

GOLD +5
SOULSTONES +310 x 0.50g = +155g
MOONSTONES +25 x 7.2g = +180g
SACRED ORBS +220 x 1.3g = +286g
TOTAL 5+g155g+180g+273g= 626g (added)

 

ELYSIAN ORBS -35 x 9 = -315
LEGENDARY ELEMENT -15 x 20 = -300
TOTAL 315+300 = 615g (discounted)

 

 

[Nomade13]

Truth. And u only show about R6>R9, now see this:

 

From Baleful/Seraph 1 > Raven 9 (like a new player) 

Actual path B/S 1 > R9 + next patch:

+ 1680 Soulstone Crystals

+ 1205 Sacred Crystals

+ 105 moonstone crystals

- 7 transformation stone

- 155 legendary elements (amazing! i already have all 240 needed old path but for everyone this its ONLY AND MOST BETTER reduction on Raven path);

- 164 elysian crystals

 

R3>R9 after patch:

1515 Soulstone Crystals (up from 0)

435 Moonstone Crystal (up from 315)

1080 Sacred Crystals (up from 0)

270 Elysian Crystals (down from 420)

290 gold (up from 280g)

75 Legendary Element (down from 165)

 

(update, changes on path raven R3>R9 now really better, after feedback community)

[Grimzy]

Because raid path > alternative path. The alternative path is supposed to be the cheaper option, its logic.

[ShiroUmi]

1 hour ago, HateMe said:

Because raid path > alternative path. The alternative path is supposed to be the cheaper option, its logic.

 You completely missed the topic by 1000000 light years. 

OP is comparing the cost of the current raid path with the cost of the upcoming raid path change. And yes after talking with some of the vet players, this looks more like a rebalance ( debalance as some might call ) and it is even more expensive than the current one we have. 

[Grimzy]

2 hours ago, ShiroUmi said:

 You completely missed the topic by 1000000 light years. 

OP is comparing the cost of the current raid path with the cost of the upcoming raid path change. And yes after talking with some of the vet players, this looks more like a rebalance ( debalance as some might call ) and it is even more expensive than the current one we have. 

I was reading another topic and replied here >.< Either way...

Players wanted sacred crystals and soulstone crystals to have more use...so they added them.

 

You save a lot on the reduction in: Blackstones, Transformation stones (you need 36 less), 155 Legendary elements (20g a piece), 164 Elysian Crystals, and 62 gold.

If you count up all meterials needed from Baleful/Seraph Stage 1 to Stage 12 + Seraph/Baleful Stage 12 to Raven Stage 3 + Raven Stage 3 to Raven Stage 9, then using the below prices:

 

PTS: 400g

Transformation Stone: 10.5g

Empyrian Spirit Stone: 180g

Legendary Element: 20g

Soulstone Crystal: 0.40g

Moonstone Crystal: 7g

Elysian Crystal: 8g

Sacred Crystal: 1g

Blackstone: 130g (if you count them as buying them from market thats extra 3900g saved but i do not calculate blackstones in)

 

 

The TOTAL cost of Upgrading Baleful/Seraph Stage 1 to Raven Stage 9 is: Current: 17 776g vs New: 15 566g

So the overall cost is cheaper in terms of gold, adding up to it that quests give you already a part of materials, you can farm basin for rest of them, its even cheaper.

 

So just cause some materials increased in numbers does not mean the overall total cost increased aswel. claculating the so called increase in costs based on only selective materials will never give you the total picture.

 

 

 

 

[Nomade13]

Reducing cost is come by Sera/Bale 1>12, but main goal here is raven path like i said from R3>R9 DONT have reducing in ANYTHING, nothing, pure.

 

R3>R9 after patch: 

1515 Soulstone Crystals (up from 0)

435 Moonstone Crystal (up from 315)

1080 Sacred Crystals (up from 0)

270 Elysian Crystals (down from 420)

290 gold (up from 280g)

75 Legendary Element (down from 165)

 

*Update, reducing now 3 PTS (wow, yeah like this!), 20 transformation stones, and other things. 

 

 

[Grimzy]

51 minutes ago, Nomade13 said:

Reducing cost is come by Sera/Bale 1>12, but main goal here is raven path like i said from R3>R9 DONT have reducing in ANYTHING, nothing, pure.

 

R3>R9 after patch: (there not changes in Raven King Souls, Transformation Stones, blackstone and PTS)

1515 Soulstone Crystals (up from 0)

435 Moonstone Crystal (up from 315)

1080 Sacred Crystals (up from 0)

270 Elysian Crystals (down from 420)

290 gold (up from 280g)

75 Legendary Element (down from 165)

Total cost increase by 5.452 gold

 

*PS: i'll like they dont touch ravenpath if is to do something like this, out of mind.

So where u see total cost reducing here? i only talking about RAVEN path, its title from topic.

Clearly you have no clue what you are even talking about...

Raven 3 -> Raven 9

 

Calculating on above prices:

Current: 16 455 gold

|After patch: 12 091 gold

 

Simple math...

[Kozuki]

Depend on how you value your bound materials.

 

If you play long enough, you would have a lot of soulstone/sacred crystals, so they can be considered as zero cost.

 

Elysian crystals is rarer, but it comes from many sources, and its usage is also less frequently for higher gear, so you tend to stock a good supply of them too.

 

Moonstone crystals, meanwhile, only have very few sources to earn from. Even 6v6 players' moonstone supply are gated by the Whirlwind Keys from PvE. To make it worse, it is the most used material that appears in nearly every upgrade, especially VT gear where it eats  a lot of moon crystals. Even though Aransu stage are getting discounts, the necklace that costs you 1,200 moon crystals are still there.

 

I, and many people I know, have disposable soul/sacred crystals, and even elysian ones. I never think twice about using elysian crystals. However, I'm extremely cautious about spending moonstone crystals, cuz they are used the most and have limited supply. So, if anything, I prefer NCWest stops poking their nose to moon crystals requirement of any upgrade, unless it is a decrease in exchange for higher counts of other crystals.

 

Also, Raven Path for some reason still keep the same number of PTS. This material costs gold to make and even more gold to buy cuz RNG success.

 

Since you cannot convert a Raven to Rift/Dawn, anyone who has upgraded to Raven way before the discount is announced are now trapped in a more expensive path without any  way out. They did upgrade to Raven because it was supposed to be the cheaper path, when Dawn/Rift ones, for some reason, the more expensive path for a very long time. Now NCWest decides another path to be the cheaper one, messing with player who follow Raven path. 

 

What's next? Aransu path suddenly becomes a lot cheaper. Everyone goes Aransu. Then they change to make Storm/Exalted even cheaper, trapping everyone who follows Aransu? Is this game named Bait & Soul?

 

If anything, they should keep/decrease the count of moonstone crystals, and considering to reduce the PTS requirement of Raven 3-9 by at least 3 PTS.

[Nemises]

Actually so far this is one of the best cost reduce + balancing patches I've ever seen since the very beginning of this game.

On 3.9.2018 at 10:36 PM, genbrutal said:

How come the counterpart of the weapon Riftwalk and Dawnforge are getting their Premium Stones remove from the upgrade cost?

Raid tier weapons are always better than the ap comparable dungeon weapons, this is the reason their cost is higher. With the incoming patch new players will finally have the choice to choose the dungeon weapon way to safe ressources or the raid weapon way to maximize their damage. You said yourself, that the majority of the players have the raven weapon at the moment, this points up that there isn't a real choice to go Riftwalk/Dawnforged at the moment.

On 3.9.2018 at 10:36 PM, genbrutal said:

Raven 7->8->9

GOLD +5
SOULSTONES +310 x 0.50g = +155g
MOONSTONES +25 x 7.2g = +180g
SACRED ORBS +220 x 1.3g = +286g
TOTAL 5+g155g+180g+273g= 626g (added)

 

ELYSIAN ORBS -35 x 9 = -315
LEGENDARY ELEMENT -15 x 20 = -300
TOTAL 315+300 = 615g (discounted)

I'm sorry to say, but this is falling into panic after reading half of the sheet. You didn't get the idea what the developers are actually doing, so I'm trying to help you with this.

Raven 7 to 9 won't be the normal way to Aransu anymore if you calculate it through. It will be Raven 7 -> Aransu 1 -> 2 -> 3, how did I get there?

For the calculation I took your prices and added the current ones for TS and PTS. On the top of the sheet you got the comparison between balancing of Aransu 1-3 and Raven 7-9 with the changes. I don't name the transformation from Raven 7 -> Aransu 1 and Raven 9 -> Aransu 3, as their economical cost is equal and only differ in 8 hive queen hearts. On the bottom you can see what you have to the difference of materials/gold if you go from Aransu 1 -> 3 instead of taking the old way from Raven 7-9. 

 

 

And I think it's  good that you don't need to go all the way up to raven 9 to evolve to aransu anymore in economical terms.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nimble Fumble]

So hmm, sorry if I get lost with all the calculations you guys made... In short, what is best to aim for after the patch if you are Raven 3? Raven 3 -> 7 -> Aransu 1 -> 2 -> 3? 

[koroki]

if you are raven 3  go > 7 > aransu 1 > 2 >3 is cheap then 9> aransu 3

 

other path is try you luck on rif/dawn weapon form event and  rng on gem slot still that would cost less then  form raven 3 to aransu 1 

if you are poor/new player dont have alot of mat go event weapon best

[genbrutal]

The point that we need to debate about the discount or not is just means that there is no obvious discount on the raven path this coming patch. The post is about raven path having no discount but other weapon has. You don't need to point out the obvious that there is a big discount on aransu weapon which is not even part of what we are discussing. :P

 

The majority of the community has a Raven weapon. 

[genbrutal]

And guess what they just updated the discount sheet :D I guess our post works guys :P we got a bit of a discount

[Cyan]

Hi everyone, 

As genbrutal pointed out, thank you for all of the discussion regarding the weapon cost adjustments. We've worked with the dev team and re-adjusted the cost of the Raven paths a little bit based on your feedback. You can find the updated changes in red in the Google Sheet. Please continue to share any other feedback you may have. 

 

Thank you.
 

[Der Lu]

Thanks for the change :)

 

[Briseiss]

The weapon reduction cost is actually pretty nice, but will you plan to also do a cost reduction /change on the VT necklace, cause atm it’s a huge gap, not many casual players can afford to use 1200 moonstones crystals.

[MassiveEgo]

9 minutes ago, Briseiss said:

The weapon reduction cost is actually pretty nice, but will you plan to also do a cost reduction /change on the VT necklace, cause atm it’s a huge gap, not many new players can afford to use 1200 moonstones crystals.

Key words/sentences here - new players, vt necklace.

[Lyn Thunderfox]

il y a 49 minutes, MassiveEgo a dit :

Key words/sentences here - new players, vt necklace.

I still think it needs some tweaking. Probably coming with the new Dowager raid but reducing stage 3->9 cost wouldn't be a bad thing either. 2-3 PTS + 20-30 trans. stones + 200-300 moonstone crystals, to chose between those values. (amount of HQ wings remains unchanged)

[NekoNoKishi]

Il y a 3 heures, Briseiss a dit :

The weapon reduction cost is actually pretty nice, but will you plan to also do a cost reduction /change on the VT necklace, cause atm it’s a huge gap, not many casual players can afford to use 1200 moonstones crystals.

You are so focused on moonstone crystal that are (imho) easily farmable at naksun while it require so many PTS i cry everytime i think about upgrading a vt necklace on a reroll. Pretty sure it will be moot point when the new necklace come in. BiS will be pve necklace+bracer+glove+belt for huge set bonus and stats.

[Nomade13]

17 hours ago, Cyan said:

Hi everyone, 

As genbrutal pointed out, thank you for all of the discussion regarding the weapon cost adjustments. We've worked with the dev team and re-adjusted the cost of the Raven paths a little bit based on your feedback. You can find the updated changes in red in the Google Sheet. Please continue to share any other feedback you may have. 

 

Thank you.
 

Thx 

[900807_1452550662]

23 hours ago, Cyan said:

Hi everyone, 

As genbrutal pointed out, thank you for all of the discussion regarding the weapon cost adjustments. We've worked with the dev team and re-adjusted the cost of the Raven paths a little bit based on your feedback. You can find the updated changes in red in the Google Sheet. Please continue to share any other feedback you may have. 

 

Thank you.
 

hello,

thanks for those small changes,but problem still remains, its cheaper to upgrade baleful 1 > riftwalk 9 > raven 9 than our old raven 3 to raven 9, mainly becouse of 6 premium stones vs 70 trans stones, while rest of materials is almost the same in those 2 options

[Ketsura]

On 04/09/2018 at 8:29 PM, Cyan said:

Hi everyone, 

As genbrutal pointed out, thank you for all of the discussion regarding the weapon cost adjustments. We've worked with the dev team and re-adjusted the cost of the Raven paths a little bit based on your feedback. You can find the updated changes in red in the Google Sheet. Please continue to share any other feedback you may have. 

 

Thank you.
 

uh, unless u guys cut the PTS from Raven, I think lots of ppl will ask for a revert (including myself).