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Please fix combat controls in F12(training against bosses).


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This is so much a pain -- I needed to try to figure out why I wasn't doing normal damage and why I kept shooting even when my fingers were off my mouse...unfortunately, I was only experiencing the problem when simplified controls were in effect.  So I need to try fighting outside a party, and ideally where I'm not likely to get killed -- like in F12-dungeon to figure my problem.  

 

Can you please stop changing my mode as I enter, to "complex" mode, as it doesn't allow me to practice the things I need to practice.  Instead, I waste time fumbling w/keys I don't remember.  However...it gets worse.  Because the game disables my normal kbd mode, and *DOESN'T* re-enable it, I entered a RAID not knowing (forgetting) my controls had been set back to manual.  Unfortunately, due to F12 disallowing normal practice as I'd fight in the dungeon, it's not very useful anymore.  So I almost never enter it....until today.  And forgot it has the bug of not restoring what has now become 'normal' mode when I leave.  As a result :shy:

 

FJK: Why did you ONLY do 1 Bullet storm that entire fight?!?  

RNG: people sharing screenshots in other discords about this run

FJK: This is actually ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ing sickening

Screenshot_147.png

FJK: no joke

 

:shock::scaryface::tears: Lovely... I did ask for this bug to be fixed over a month ago, and it wasn't.  Doubt it was even forwarded to developers.  This is so lame.  This's the result of F12 messing up our control settings and not even restoring them.  Ideally, the game wouldn't mess with them, then this wouldn't happen.  When can this get fixed?  Please!!!   I really want F12 to be useful again.

 

And for those who would say this is my fault....yes, in part, but if my normal control-settings weren't disabled it wouldn't have happened.

 

:pain: - Astara

 

 

 

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F12 wasnt meant for simplifed mode so it just automaticly go to bns mode. Ofc they could have made that when returning to normal areas it would swich back to last used in that area. However they didint program it like that and i am pretty sure its not a bug but insuficiant development from their side.

Edited by MantisxD
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The game wasn't meant for simplified mode either.  It was added.  If F12 reset your screen and key layout to default settings every time you entered, would you call that a bug or say that insufficient time was spent on the config settings?  Why should the control mode be different?  It's in the same pages. 

 

In this case, whether F12 was "meant" for simplified mode isn't exactly the case.  It does reset some (one) user setting. 

 

FWIW, F12 does handle simplified mode -- it greys out the choice.  The choice is still there, but can't be selected.  So it isn't the case that it doesn't "handle" the control mode.  It does and tries to keep the user from changing it back.  If it just outright didn't work, then setting the control setting one way or the other would make no difference.

 

There are mods that turn on simplified mode in F12 -- so F12 does handle that mode, but mods are no way to work around such a problem.  Besides messing w/the game files, the whole thing is a bit complicated -- but it does work, if I can believe postings.  But even it if was simple, I wouldn't want to have to exit the game, modify the files, re-enter, and later "undo"...every time I wanted to use

the training room.   I used to use it more frequently, but now can't to actually practice combat.

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1 hour ago, Astarae said:

The game wasn't meant for simplified mode either.  It was added.  If F12 reset your screen and key layout to default settings every time you entered, would you call that a bug or say that insufficient time was spent on the config settings?  Why should the control mode be different?  It's in the same pages. 

 

In this case, whether F12 was "meant" for simplified mode isn't exactly the case.  It does reset some (one) user setting. 

 

FWIW, F12 does handle simplified mode -- it greys out the choice.  The choice is still there, but can't be selected.  So it isn't the case that it doesn't "handle" the control mode.  It does and tries to keep the user from changing it back.  If it just outright didn't work, then setting the control setting one way or the other would make no difference.

 

There are mods that turn on simplified mode in F12 -- so F12 does handle that mode, but mods are no way to work around such a problem.  Besides messing w/the game files, the whole thing is a bit complicated -- but it does work, if I can believe postings.  But even it if was simple, I wouldn't want to have to exit the game, modify the files, re-enter, and later "undo"...every time I wanted to use

the training room.   I used to use it more frequently, but now can't to actually practice combat.

The simplified mode was meant for those who suffer from RSI, using simplified mode was meant to help them do things without too much strain, using the simplified mode kills a big portion of your dps so for raids and dungeons you should not use it.

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1 hour ago, Astarae said:

The game wasn't meant for simplified mode either.  It was added.  If F12 reset your screen and key layout to default settings every time you entered, would you call that a bug or say that insufficient time was spent on the config settings?  Why should the control mode be different?  It's in the same pages. 

 

In this case, whether F12 was "meant" for simplified mode isn't exactly the case.  It does reset some (one) user setting. 

 

FWIW, F12 does handle simplified mode -- it greys out the choice.  The choice is still there, but can't be selected.  So it isn't the case that it doesn't "handle" the control mode.  It does and tries to keep the user from changing it back.  If it just outright didn't work, then setting the control setting one way or the other would make no difference.

 

There are mods that turn on simplified mode in F12 -- so F12 does handle that mode, but mods are no way to work around such a problem.  Besides messing w/the game files, the whole thing is a bit complicated -- but it does work, if I can believe postings.  But even it if was simple, I wouldn't want to have to exit the game, modify the files, re-enter, and later "undo"...every time I wanted to use

the training room.   I used to use it more frequently, but now can't to actually practice combat.

They designed simplified controls to help newer players accommodate with the game. I personally like it, because on some classes it does wonders - having to NOT constant mash 3 buttons with 0 cooldown in THE SAME TIME like some physcho idiot is a great relief. In the same time it shows how poor the effort was placed into designing actual skill rotations for some classes based on new itemization - you can't really mash 3 buttons non stop and actually use dodge skills, buffs, etc without getting to utter frustration. Maybe instead of removing cooldowns on some skills, they should have just kept the cooldown and made the skill much more powerful/interesting, and actually have a rotation for some classes.

 

Leaving that aside, they did not design simplified controls so that Astarae can try his DPS in F12. While I agree that for many it's now become an indispensable setting (can't really go back) they don't allow it in F12 because from their perspective it's not intended to replace the core gameplay (yet?). This is not a bug - it's intended. 

 

The fact that you entered a raid and you did not realize in the first 15 seconds of the fight that you did not have simplified controls on tells how much attention you're paying to the game. Also you can change between BnS mode and Simplified Controls mode with SHIFT+F3 in a second. Just assume the blame and pay more attention next time. And don't really say things about modding the game... that's a very, very ban able offense :)

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On 8/28/2018 at 12:50 PM, HateMe said:

The simplified mode was meant for those who suffer from RSI, using simplified mode was meant to help them do things without too much strain, using the simplified mode kills a big portion of your dps so for raids and dungeons you should not use it.

Yeah, and?  I've never been a fast typist.  When I was in school the #1 spot in a multi-user game was held by someone who typed 200 wpm.  My best wpm has been 25-30 wpm.  Most experts in who know about RSI will tell you that prevention is the best solution, because once you have it, it's not only difficult to get rid of, but may have already caused permanent damage. 

 

So how much RSI should you have before you reduce strain on your joints?  Zero.  Waiting to use simplified mode until you already have it is too late.  

 

In track, those who have the best performance in  sprinting are the ones who have the highest percentage of "fast-twitch" fibers.  Physiologists now differentiate 3 muscle types in people:  types I, IIa, and IIb.  Type I is anaerobic while the type II's are aerobic.  Anaerobic means without oxygen -- they are good for bursts, but eventually lactic acid builds up causing muscle fatigue and failure.  Aerobic muscles are more efficient and can take in enough oxygen to balance expenditure.  Comparing sprinters to marathoners, sprinters will have 20% type I, 45% type IIa, and 35% type, while professional/elite marathoners will have around 80% type I, 20% type IIa, and less than 1% type IIb.   That's a *huge* difference in muscle types and cannot be compensated for by training.  It is influenced by training, but most of that difference is due to genetics.    It's what you are born with.  

 

For me, I found that the simple mode increased my DPS by about 2.5-3x.  That's true in PvE and PvP.  It doesn't even come close to beating those who deal out 250-350k damage in less than a second (i.e. all the damage in the same clock second on the battle log).  It may be true that it reduces DPS for raids and dungeons for some people and /or some classes.  I can only speak for myself and and my class.  

 

So when was the last time you played a fire gunner with & without the simplified mode in the game?  What's your average DPS on each?

 

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I shouldn't spend the time responding to someone who obviously doesn't know what they are talking about, but some points you really need to get a clue on:

On 8/28/2018 at 1:04 PM, asot said:

They designed simplified controls to help newer players accommodate with the game.

Your first mistake.  If you have ever tried it as a newer player, you'd know how false this is.  It doesn't work until you are level 50.  The fact is -- it is ONLY for more experienced players who have completed the first 50 levels manually so that you can actually learn what the different spells for your class are.  If it was automatic from the start, new users would not be able to discern what was 'them' in triggering a spell vs. what was the key-board automatic.  This is probably your biggest mistake showing how much you don't know about simplified mode.

On 8/28/2018 at 1:04 PM, asot said:

I personally like it, because on some classes it does wonders - having to NOT constant mash 3 buttons with 0 cooldown in THE SAME TIME like some physcho idiot is a great relief.

Second mistake.  Using automode doesn't negate or disable cooldowns.  It isn't limited to 3 buttons, but it is interesting that you describe normal game play as being like a "physcho"[sic] idiot.

 

On 8/28/2018 at 1:04 PM, asot said:

In the same time it shows how poor the effort was placed into designing actual skill rotations for some classes based on new itemization - you can't really mash 3 buttons non stop and actually use dodge skills, buffs, etc without getting to utter frustration. Maybe instead of removing cooldowns on some skills, they should have just kept the cooldown and made the skill much more powerful/interesting, and actually have a rotation for some classes.

It doesn't show much in the way of AI, but it actually does have rotations for some classes -- that you don't know this shows that you don't have any inside knowledge as to it design.

On 8/28/2018 at 1:04 PM, asot said:

Leaving that aside, they did not design simplified controls so that Astarae can try his[sic] DPS in F12.

First, it should be apparent from your previous statements that you know little about simplified controls, and know even less about the design goals of the developers.  You can't say anything about the reasons they designed simplified controls -- you can only make guesses.  Speaking is if you "know" why they did something is ridiculous when you appear to know little.

 

Second, where did I say ANYthing about simplified controls being designed for DPS in F12?  It appears you didn't read the base note or what I said.  You know nothing about the S.Ctrl design nor about what was written in the note you are responding to.   It seems your only purpose in positing is to be obstructive.   F12 is called a Training room -- and is to help you 1) to learn your different skills, and 2) learn some mechanics of various bosses where you don't have to worry so much about dying.

 

However, to learn how you perform in battle, you need to enable skills, setup defenses and set your controls for how they are set in the actual dungeon.  It doesn't help if the training room forces you to use a game pad when your normal user-interface uses the keyboard (or vice-versa).  Simply put -- you need to be able to set controls to how you use them in the dungeon (or raid).  

However, according to 'HateMe', one gets lower DPS using auto controls, so your point about using them to get higher DPS is questionable.  I have a feeling it will vary by class and user.

On 8/28/2018 at 1:04 PM, asot said:

While I agree that for many it's now become an indispensable setting (can't really go back) they don't allow it in F12 because from their perspective it's not intended to replace the core gameplay (yet?).

You are contradicting yourself here as well as attempting to convince someone that you know the inner-mind of the developers.  First you say it has become indispensable and people can't "go back", but claim at the same time, that an indispensable tool isn't designed to replace the core game play.  They never really said it was.  It seemed they were trying to provide some base, automatically, in the game to give non-macro using players a slightly more even field than having nothing.  It may even be the case that for some players the macro level provided by the game is as good or better than any external tool, so they may also be lessening or eliminating the need to try or use such tools for most.  I don't remember the exact wording, but that was what I got (or read into) their announcement about the

controls.  I.e. it isn't designed to *replace* the original controls, but more to lower the need or want for external tools that might

try to do the same (but not as well).

On 8/28/2018 at 1:04 PM, asot said:

This is not a bug - it's intended. 

Saying that the new tool, that seemed to be designed to lower the need for external add-ons, was intended to be broken in F12, would seem to be saying they don't have the same need or want to dissuade external macro or addon usage while in F12.  For similar reasons, they don't disable the keyboard or game-controller interfaces even though 1 may be easier than the other.  If they did, I think most would say it was a bug.  While I can easily see it being intentional in the skill-practice sections (sorta defeats the intent of skill practice),  there is no reason to disable it in the 'dungeon' section where you would want to practice with the same controls you used in actual battle.   The idea is to be able to practice with bosses w/lower or zero damage to see what you need to do in such fights.  Practicing with the wrong controls doesn't allow that and is counter productive.

On 8/28/2018 at 1:04 PM, asot said:

The fact that you entered a raid and you did not realize in the first 15 seconds of the fight that you did not have simplified controls on tells how much attention you're paying to the game.

Again -- more proof you didn't read the base note.  I didn't say 15 seconds -- If you look, it was the entire RAID because I was zoomed out farther than I usually am and wasn't able to see my character -- that they were not performing correctly or why.  It wasn't until I was in a 1:1 situation on SSP, that I realized I wasn't getting my bullet storm upon pressing the correct keys (in simplified mode).  Then I corrected the problem.  It didn't show how much attention I was paying to the game, as others commented that I did a much better job of getting the mechanics down.  Can't do that if not paying attention.  No, it shows that I couldn't see my character zoomed out as much as I was (as recommended to me by another player who had over 2.5 years experience), though I do have attention problems having to focus my attention across so many things at the same time.

On 8/28/2018 at 1:04 PM, asot said:

Also you can change between BnS mode and Simplified Controls mode with SHIFT+F3 in a second. Just assume the blame and pay more attention next time. And don't really say things about modding the game... that's a very, very ban able offense :)

Re: shift+F3 -- good to know, but is there an indicator anywhere to indicate what mode you are in?   More evidence of you not reading the original....as I said:  "And for those who would say this is my fault....yes, in part, but if my normal control-settings weren't disabled it wouldn't have happened." 

 

As for 'bannable', too bad you don't know what I actually wrote, or you wouldn't have mis-used the language in calling something "very, very ban able" v. "only slightly bannable", or just "bannable", but would have known that I wasn't giving advice about how to circumvent the game or where to get hacks, etc, just noting that there were mods to get simplified controls to work in F12, "if I can believe postings", but that" such "mods are no way to work around such a problem".   Or do you disagree with that?

 

 

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