How about new players...

[Chad1123]

Due to the fact that my previus topics got some fame maybe some in positive and maybe some in negative way.

I want to ask you in a hypothetical universe when you just started the game and finished the main story, having no main, no hm coins/nccoins. Witout spending any real money, would u still play this game? Just imagine being a brand new player with Hallow's accesories, squares gems and baleful/seraph 4 or 5... Just give a serious replay, this thread is not for blaming anyone just an imaginary game to see if people enjoy this game.

 

[MassiveEgo]

Bruh, I'm 3/4 done with the thingies to get my raven to aransu and I haven't been playing since may. And I like this game, despite it's questionable performance. I don't feel like doing anything cause nothing feels rewarding. 15 minute dungeon which yields like 3 gold. With the current market prices, I wouldn't move my finger for less than 6-9g/10 minutes. I can obviously, just weasel the market like every other middling player, but that's just not something I'd willingly do.

If I'm not willing to do the things cause they don't feel rewarding, you can bet a lung that I wouldn't even entertain the notion of climbing this mountain from sea level.

[Deadly Intent]

Unlike most people, I actually enjoy leveling up new characters, especially new classes (warrior are you listening?).  But this would probably change considerable if I didn't have the support of my other characters to fall back on.  So, given the basic idea of your hypothetical character and the mountainous struggle he/she would expect to face (and keeping with the hypothetical f2p concept of this game ), I'd probably scrapped it as a good try and go back to fps games.  No dealing with douche nozzles, no lag, no dc at random times, can actually reach the end of the game before the end of one's lifetime, no BSODs due to client memory leaks and no spyware posing as an anti-cheat program running on my computer. 

I know this game is very addicting and giving it up will be very hard to do, but sooner or later it's going to be cold turkey time.

[Saksoy]

Without spending any money. I wouldnt be here today, thats for sure.

[Chad1123]

It seems like anyone who posted here would totally not starting the game from the scratch once again. Before making this post i was discusting with other users on different posts talking about the situation of new players and some opinions totally shoked me, some users were totally con about the nerfing gold and this p2w policy and some of them were pro and said was totally fair this type of changes. In my opinion this game is not appealing to new players anymore, before this game has only the issues about fps and lag input but now not even free to play players can't get anywhere any time soon without selling a kidney. I myself too will not imagine me starting the game once again or reccomend this game to new players. I hope next patches NCSOFT will realise how much of a big problem it is and will try to solve it soon but meanwhile I'm stuck with my gear so i guess after this event i will totally get a long pause waitng for that miracolus patch to make the game great again.

[Reyzen]

Well, let's see what will happen in the next patches, I just wish they listen to us and consider our opinions though, I'm talking about NCsoft. 

[KzE]

Ofc is hard for new players, when you have big gear gap. Perfect example is Know thine enemy part2. You cant get together 6 players even with 1k AP for IF/EL, because old players ignore you under 1K1 AP and there arent enough new players either to get a full 1K party. Today i tried this again with my 1k+ AP alt, after half hour of waiting i closed the game.

[Showta]

If I were a complete newbie, just heard of Blade and Soul today, would I try the game...............

 

...................................... well, YEAH!!! Lmao

 

Yes there are issues we're aware of, but as a newbie that isn't something you fully understand yet!!! You see cool/pretty looking characters and what looks like people having fun with friends and usually that's all it takes. Sure some people are into it for the combat, some into it for the end-game. but I'm one of the types who just likes looking good and making friends. It's an MMO afterall!

 

So... I wouldnt actually care about anything else. Yes eventually I would realize "oh jeez...how do I even make gold.." but I always make so many friends in all games that I never have problems  getting into dungeons or raids lol. Would I enjoy the grind? No, I don't even enjoy it now!! but would I do it all over again? Yes, I love my character. In the end, that's what makes it all worth it to me.

[Why Bother]

HELL NO!

 

The game isn't new player friendly, but even worse, the community is in no way new player friendly, to being down right hostile towards new players. Defenders try to place the whole blame on the players for this, but the design of the game could be changed in many ways to make it more approachable by new players.

• Add some form of mentor system as many games do to help encourage helping newer players, by offering rewards for doing so.
• Make the cross server dungeon system include raids, and not allow custom groups, you just select the desired dungeons, hit LFP, and get put in a group with people that meet the systems requirements for said dungeons, then if you leave the team, you can't use the system again for an hour, or so, on any character.
• Do more to prepare new people for group play, rather than just expecting them to drop into the higher dungeons straight out of the story content. If you started when the game was launched, you started with easy group dungeons, and learned how to play in a group better progressively through progressively more difficult group dungeons, and open world field bosses, now they want you doing stuff around Naryu Sanctum level as your first introduction to group content. Even doing things with solo versions of existing group dungeons, where you fight with an AI controlled team would do far more than what we have now.
• Improve the mechanics of the game, so it's clear what you're expected to do, rather than having to check out some guide before hand.
• Give everyone their own loot, rather than having to fight over it through a system that favours the richer players.
• Shrink the power gap between new players, and the top end. There can still be things to strive for, like ways to customise your skills/equipment that make their functions different, rather than just stronger, cosmetics, and such, but if a geared player is in a dungeon with a group of new players, the newer players will feel utterly useless given the massive power gap between them, which some geared players will rub in their faces, by calling them useless.
• Scale rewards to the characters doing the content, rather than periodically nerfing older content rewards, because top end players can do it easily now.
• Plus many more things of this nature.

[Chad1123]

19 minutes ago, Why Bother said:

HELL NO!

 

The game isn't new player friendly, but even worse, the community is in no way new player friendly, to being down right hostile towards new players. Defenders try to place the whole blame on the players for this, but the design of the game could be changed in many ways to make it more approachable by new players.

• Add some form of mentor system as many games do to help encourage helping newer players, by offering rewards for doing so.
• Make the cross server dungeon system include raids, and not allow custom groups, you just select the desired dungeons, hit LFP, and get put in a group with people that meet the systems requirements for said dungeons, then if you leave the team, you can't use the system again for an hour, or so, on any character.
• Do more to prepare new people for group play, rather than just expecting them to drop into the higher dungeons straight out of the story content. If you started when the game was launched, you started with easy group dungeons, and learned how to play in a group better progressively through progressively more difficult group dungeons, and open world field bosses, now they want you doing stuff around Naryu Sanctum level as your first introduction to group content. Even doing things with solo versions of existing group dungeons, where you fight with an AI controlled team would do far more than what we have now.
• Improve the mechanics of the game, so it's clear what you're expected to do, rather than having to check out some guide before hand.
• Give everyone their own loot, rather than having to fight over it through a system that favours the richer players.
• Shrink the power gap between new players, and the top end. There can still be things to strive for, like ways to customise your skills/equipment that make their functions different, rather than just stronger, cosmetics, and such, but if a geared player is in a dungeon with a group of new players, the newer players will feel utterly useless given the massive power gap between them, which some geared players will rub in their faces, by calling them useless.
• Scale rewards to the characters doing the content, rather than periodically nerfing older content rewards, because top end players can do it easily now.
• Plus many more things of this nature.

I am totally on youre side about the ideas but these will totally change the game and i guess they don't have that power to deviate from the original korean server. In my opinion if they revaluate the upgrading progress and farming gold in a way that even free to play players can get ahead if they play a lot i would be more than happy. They don't need to nerf dungeons and raids all they need is to give us the possibily to farm gold and material in a more effective way and not waiting for the dailyes reset everyday.

[Raven Freja]

We must also look at ourself, and what we doing to give ppl a good time. And what we can do to upgrade ppl to get a larger middlegroup, and a bigger top.

The Clan system is very bad, ofc ppl with good gear cant go down and help low levl players the difference would be to big. 

And lower levl. I mean ppl where haven´t been in Skyebreak and will never get where, before the out of the game again.

'But if a bigger Clans maked a Clan for ppl with lower gear. And learned them how to do things right with a couple of alt. 

The could also see who was active. The could also use them to recruit to the motherclan.

Instead where is to many Clans where the leaders is not active. and no one where guide ppl .

So ppl leave the Clans and stop playing because the shall solo all things or random. and dont learn mechs or what the shall do to upgrade right.

I have just been in a Clan where I helped 2 Gunners to upgrade and learned them the basic now the are ready for bigger things. And my main is destro.

And I leaved the Clan because the leaders is not active and the recruit in a wrong way. If the recruit. So now Im solo again. And no I have never been in Skyebreak but I now a lot of things until mechs where. and I now how to upgrade ppl.

We all know ppl where run around and solo still wonder why, nobody helps them to get in a Good Clan where the can get some friends and the can make where things. some ppl just need a hand sometimes to move up.

Instead the get in empty Clans and will give up later.

But the game is not dead only need a helping hand sometimes from the Community.

If you want to Top fast yes so Its wallet but if you want to play the game and learn things right. So its just grind maybe wallet sometimes. 

If you have Full BT gear and cant tank EC yes so will you get a hard life if you dont have a Clan. 

And I always have gold a new player dont need to make 1000g every week. the gold the need the can farm very fast. So what´s no problem. But if nobody learn them how to make gold. the are lost. 

[Ren36]

What captivated me was the pvp and even from a theoretical point of view, it´s not like we will lose our memory, when we start anew.
Thinking back all hardships seem far away, but if we think for a second, how much time it took, to get that 100th RT run, 100th run in HH and unlocking that 20 AP achievement for clearing 40 HM runs of end-content dungeons, then no... Never again.
That´s at least the general consensus, when people ask, why achievements aren´t account-wide.
Just the thought is too gruesome; to repeat everything - which is aside from the tedious material farming and HM levels, also a reason why next to none switches main.
Regardless, BnS as it is, is just mindless button mashing.  The aspect this game excelled is no more. Even complete foreigners to this game can tell, once they watch any of nowadays tournaments, that this game is just about deleting one another, if that queue would ever ends though. And that some classes are more proficient at it than others.
It would be another issue if the pve felt more engaging, but in the end it boils down if we can compare. Till now BnS was just lucky, but with the upcoming games and once Monster Hunter World releases it might change.
This is something I especially realized when people were more worried, than looking forward to the UE4 release of BnS.
This game just has nothing to look forward to, but way too much to worry about.

 

[Why Bother]

On 8/5/2018 at 3:25 PM, Chad1123 said:

I am totally on youre side about the ideas but these will totally change the game and i guess they don't have that power to deviate from the original korean server. In my opinion if they revaluate the upgrading progress and farming gold in a way that even free to play players can get ahead if they play a lot i would be more than happy. They don't need to nerf dungeons and raids all they need is to give us the possibily to farm gold and material in a more effective way and not waiting for the dailyes reset everyday.

I don't really see how they would "totally change the game." They are just meant to help encourage a more supportive community, and help people get into the content, the devs/publishers wants players to be doing, which will all mean more people to play with, a stronger community, and more money for the companies involved. I said nothing about nerfing content, and your suggestion of changing the the upgrade process could be considered as much of a change, or likely a greater change than anything I suggested, and any time things are changed to help people get a leg up, like when the semi-recent soul event was announced, many top end players griped about how they were giving good things away for "free."

 

That attitude is one of the biggest problems in this game here, we are dependant on playing with others to play the game, but the community has become so selfish, elitist, and shortsighted that anything done to help the lower end players, gets met with negativity. We have people that use those nonsense firewalls to kill party members, during events, and Daily Challenges involving older content, the top end players join a full team, only to run through it solo, not waiting for, or caring about the other lesser equipped five people in the slightest, Doing things to hopefully help make the community less toxic would be a big change, but it would be one that could only help the game as a whole. Also such things need not be only done here, it could be done to all versions, if the community is more co-operative in other regions, such changes would have no real great impact, it could just reward people for doing things they may already be doing.

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, Ren36 said:

Regardless, BnS as it is, is just mindless button mashing.

Back at launch, and during our beta I found the game played differently than it does now. Then PvE didn't feel like you were suppose to bash the attack buttons like a mad man, but more so attack with care, while watching for openings, and certain situations. But over time the enrage timers felt to be more of an issue, so we had to rush, needed to go in with higher gear, and abandon playing carefully. Now it feels like most people just "mindlessly button mash" between periods of unintuitive forced game mechanic periods that if you, or someone else messes up, could instantly kill you.

[Chad1123]

6 minutes ago, Why Bother said:

I don't really see how they would "totally change the game." They are just meant to help encourage a more supportive community, and help people get into the content, the devs/publishers wants players to be doing, which will all mean more people to play with, a stronger community, and more money for the companies involved. I said nothing about nerfing content, and your suggestion of changing the the upgrade process could be considered as much of a change, or likely a greater change than anything I suggested, and any time things are changed to help people get a leg up, like when the semi-recent soul event was announced, many top end players griped about how they were giving good things away for "free."

 

That attitude is one of the biggest problems in this game here, we are dependant on playing with others to play the game, but the community has become so selfish, elitist, and shortsighted that anything done to help the lower end players, gets met with negativity. We have people that use those nonsense firewalls to kill party members, during events, and Daily Challenges involving older content, the top end players join a full team, only to run through it solo, not waiting for, or caring about the other lesser equipped five people in the slightest, Doing things to hopefully help make the community less toxic would be a big change, but it would be one that could only help the game as a whole. Also such things need not be only done here, it could be done to all versions, if the community is more co-operative in other regions, such changes would have no real great impact, it could just reward people for doing things they may already be doing.

Yeah i know and i said i was totally on youre side, but let's be real for a moment this game will never create a whole new system as u suggested maybe because they are either careless and don't thinks is a problem since they apparently dont play the game, or they can't change the game itself systems because is connected directly with his origial release in Korea. All patches we had untill this moment was just translations ( for the big part) of the Korean game so making a whole new system to help players in their point of view might be very expesive and worthess. In my opinion youre idea was totally good and i support you and hopefully maybe in near future even NCSOF will support us.

[Why Bother]

5 hours ago, Chad1123 said:

Yeah i know and i said i was totally on youre side, but let's be real for a moment this game will never create a whole new system as u suggested maybe because they are either careless and don't thinks is a problem since they apparently dont play the game, or they can't change the game itself systems because is connected directly with his origial release in Korea. All patches we had untill this moment was just translations ( for the big part) of the Korean game so making a whole new system to help players in their point of view might be very expesive and worthess. In my opinion youre idea was totally good and i support you and hopefully maybe in near future even NCSOF will support us.

If that's your opinion, then why did you even waste your time to make, and respond to a thread like this, as obviously they'll never change anything? They make "whole new systems" all the time for the game, they're supposedly even working on changing the game engine, and adding that whole fishing BS that about every Korean online game keeps sticking in. Why shouldn't they make changes, that make their game more approachable, and encourage healthy community interactions, that's at least largely what the things I suggested are, changes, not "whole new systems" as you call them.

 

I just can't stand it when people on one hand say that "oh, I agree" then promptly follow up by saying how they can't, or won't for some nonsense reason. Not long ago I said how souls, and pets of any grade should be account bound items, or an account wide bonus system, rather than the character bound items they are currently. Someone said they supposedly agreed that such a thing would be a good idea, then said how they can't do that, as oh no, then they can't sell sealing scrolls for them in the cash shop. People can always find some "reason" why some change shouldn't, or couldn't be made, but if you look at it, and say "yes, this would help make the game better" then that's where it should end.

[Astarae]

On 8/5/2018 at 4:51 AM, KzE said:

Ofc is hard for new players, when you have big gear gap. Perfect example is Know thine enemy part2. You cant get together 6 players even with 1k AP for IF/EL, because old players ignore you under 1K1 AP and there arent enough new players either to get a full 1K party. Today i tried this again with my 1k+ AP alt, after half hour of waiting i closed the game.

Why do you need "know thine enemy part 2"?  I didn't have that until I was much higher lvl.  part2 doesn't come immediately

after part1 -- you need to lvl up in between.  look at the HM lvl on those dungeons.  Are you HM 14, 15 or 16 (or whatever

those dungeons have for lvls)?  Why do I see HM8's wanting to do HM14 content?

 

Sure, those are guidelines, BUT... they were set for a reason.

 

There's nothing you get from part2 that you can't get from farming in CB.  FWIW, I've done both of those, AND I have about 30k peaches in inventory.  Just nothing to do with them.  So how can it be so easy to farm peaches and have people bang heads against hard walls so much trying to do stuff way over their head that won't give them anything more than they have now?

 

 

 

Example from last night...  someone spouts out cry on faction chat about needing help killing some boss in a dungeon.  The said they could get him to 80%, but then nvr past that.  I suggested if they were stuck to google it -- no, they couldn't leave or the monster would kill them.  

 

I said it will be hard to look it up in google then.

 

Them: UR NO HELP!

Me: Yes I am...I'm helping you achieve accomplishment.  Go look at "Heavens take the wheel".  I'm helping you achieve 

that.  I have that accomplishment, do you?   It's for dying 1000 times.

 

Finally said "Got it".  And stopped asking for help on faction chat.

 

 

[Jurisz]

The bottom line is, game will die since there will be no new players anymore. The only ones who sustain this game are the whales that stay true to their wallet and grind for some reason and take selfies with their clanmates. Game hasn't been fun for ages anymore. And they wont fix it cus "korean mmo duh, we take ur money bruh".

[Granger]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Astarae:

ook at the HM lvl on those dungeons.  Are you HM 14, 15 or 16 (or whatever

those dungeons have for lvls)?  Why do I see HM8's wanting to do HM14 content?

Are you daft or something? NS is reccomended for HM13... 

[MassiveEgo]

The HM recommendations for gundeons are for hard mode.

[Chad1123]

10 hours ago, Why Bother said:

If that's your opinion, then why did you even waste your time to make, and respas obviously they'llond to a thread like this, never change anything? They make "whole new systems" all the time for the game, they're supposedly even working on changing the game engine, and adding that whole fishing BS that about every Korean online game keeps sticking in. Why shouldn't they make changes, that make their game more approachable, and encourage healthy community interactions, that's at least largely what the things I suggested are, changes, not "whole new systems" as you call them.

 

I just can't stand it when people on one hand say that "oh, I agree" then promptly follow up by saying how they can't, or won't for some nonsense reason. Not long ago I said how souls, and pets of any grade should be account bound items, or an account wide bonus system, rather than the character bound items they are currently. Someone said they supposedly agreed that such a thing would be a good idea, then said how they can't do that, as oh no, then they can't sell sealing scrolls for them in the cash shop. People can always find some "reason" why some change shouldn't, or couldn't be made, but if you look at it, and say "yes, this would help make the game better" then that's where it should end.

Why do i need to repeat my self? I said i was totally on your side but if they could had done this changes to improve the game why didn't they done it way before? This forum is for only NA/EU servers that are the pleb copy of the Korean original realease, NCSOFT (asia) will not even mind to hear the opinion of the western playerbase since we are just a littel part compared to eastern part. Yes, they are working on new systems but for the korean game, only God knows how many months we need to wait for that update. Every single patch we had was only a traslation of the new balances and older updates on the korean servers. I agree that the bns community is pretty toxic and i really want a better community but if they can't give us even maintenance in time how they can make big changes if they even don't care. Don't get me wrong i wasn't pessimistic but realistic. I really want this type of changes if they could actually do it.

[KzE]

6 hours ago, Astarae said:

Why do you need "know thine enemy part 2"?  I didn't have that until I was much higher lvl.  part2 doesn't come immediately

after part1 -- you need to lvl up in between.  look at the HM lvl on those dungeons.  Are you HM 14, 15 or 16 (or whatever

those dungeons have for lvls)?  Why do I see HM8's wanting to do HM14 content?

HM level is irrelevant for us. Its for korean version and they have another HM system (they are HM12+ out of story).

NS, IF and EL dungeons are lvl50 content.

 

And if we talk about recommendations

 

 

[matthew]

2 hours ago, MassiveEgo said:

The HM recommendations for gundeons are for hard mode.

OMG is that for real? They should've said...

I've been avoiding all those dungeons for years because the moment i saw the HM14-15 im like well i dont wanna make enemies on the server being under HM requirements i'll avoid those dungeons until i reach HM14+. The community was toxic enough towards gear and HM levels during the days of Naryu1 and Yeti.

 

The current HM system doesnt even make sense and should'nt add on stats imho. Its too much of an additional power gain. Maybe add a cosmetic shine or aura instead. Ever since the Legendary weapons cameout this game has been on a spiral towards a punishing future for new players.

1 hour ago, KzE said:

HM level is irrelevant for us. Its for korean version and they have another HM system (they are HM12+ out of story).

But we had a localisation team working on the NA version who were supposed to make sure that this type of information is relevant to us!

[Astarae]

12 hours ago, Granger said:

Are you daft or something? NS is reccomended for HM13... 

They want to do dungeons at 13, 14, 14, and 15.  Are they up to those levels with the equipment for them?

 

Are you daft in picking the easiest dungeon and suggesting it is the same for all?

 

 

[Astarae]

11 hours ago, KzE said:

HM level is irrelevant for us. Its for korean version and they have another HM system (they are HM12+ out of story).

So are we.  HM8-HM12... 12 if you do everything, 8 if you only do main story.

 

 

11 hours ago, KzE said:

NS, IF and EL dungeons are lvl50 content.

They are MAX level content ... 50 when 50 was top level, 55, now.

11 hours ago, KzE said:

And if we talk about recommendations...

The AP is way off.

[Astarae]

9 hours ago, matthew said:

OMG is that for real? They should've said...

(no, that isn't for real).  And the numbers are not hard-and-fast, but try them on your own and see.  

If you start at the bottom and work up, and then see how you perform in different groups, you'll see that expecting to do HM15 when you are HM8 is pretty insane.  

9 hours ago, matthew said:

Try them on your own. 

I've been avoiding all those dungeons for years because the moment i saw the HM14-15 im like well i dont wanna make enemies on the server being under HM requirements i'll avoid those dungeons until i reach HM14+. The community was toxic enough towards gear and HM levels during the days of Naryu1 and Yeti.

Try them on your own...find a group same lvl as you and try them...then depends on how well everyone knows

mechs and wants to do dungeon by-the-mech -- group can be 3-4 lvls below list, if they go by mechs, if they DPS

through it, maybe 1-2 lvls, if by self, subtract 3-4 off your level....

 

Those are rules of thumb for me.  Others will have their own experience, but not that far off from what I've seen.

 

9 hours ago, matthew said: