Players rejoining lobbies after kick

[Cor]

On 2.8.2018 at 7:30 PM, SilverFoxR said:

I'd argue that being an elitist doucebag to lower-geared players is far more toxic and one of the bigger issues why those lower-geared players have difficulty progressing. In fact, I'd say that it's one of the biggest reasons this community is considered as toxic as it is.

People playing with equally geared players an not letting you leech = toxic. yeah right damn those evil people how dare them.

[Astarae]

On 8/2/2018 at 4:06 PM, MassiveEgo said:

What's so toxic about being unable to spam a lobby where you're not wanted?

being thrown out and not told why is right up there with people telling you to know mechs at the end of a run but nothing else.

 

OTOH, I've led more than one group and joined others, I've only seen 1 example in the past several months were someone rejoined -- once.  This spamming thing ... something seems personal there -- there's nothing in it for them if they aren't wanted, so they must have some motivation.  Have seen quite a few people dissing people in F8 region chat -- making fun of them because they want to do dungeons over their head, etc.  While I may question a person as to why they need to do a dungeon far over their head, *strongly*, that doesn't mean I won't do it with them.  He'll someone wanted to do a dungeon over MY head for me to solo or carry or whatever -- with a equal party -- np, but low enough party -- was problematic a few times in NS.  

 

But he and his friend were convinced they had to do EL -- not EC?...nope..EL...unless there is someone who can kill that blighted harpy...while I'm dancing w/her, not gonna happen.  On third run, they started w/o me, me sitting outside in front of flames.

Figured it was time for me to go at that point.  After they failed/died several times, they realized they weren't being given 

bulldoodoo.  Told them they'd really have to be ultra expert in mechs to do that dungeon at their level -- and unfortunately, I

didn't know them (told them that up front!).

[Astarae]

On 8/5/2018 at 2:13 PM, Cor said:

People playing with equally geared players an not letting you leech = toxic. yeah right damn those evil people how dare them.

Can be -- there is a difference between knowing mechs and doing them.  How they gonna learn to do mechs if nobody goes with them?  How many people who say "know mechs", think they can watch a brain surgery video and know they know brain surgery...it's a joke right?  Cuz it sure doesn't sounds like it.  I remember someone razzing me for not knowing mechs, and I said if I don't know them its cuz people like you can't teach them.

 

Clans can be just as toxic as F8 -- more so if you think of them as family.

 

 

[Crickateer]

5 hours ago, Astarae said:

being thrown out and not told why is right up there with people telling you to know mechs at the end of a run but nothing else.

If you join a dungeon without the gear that the party leader is looking for and are kicked without a word that is your own fault. You do not deserve a message why as its common sense why you were kicked... you didn't meet the listed gear requirements that was posted in the message... You are wasting everyone's time by joining at that point.

5 hours ago, Astarae said:

OTOH, I've led more than one group and joined others, I've only seen 1 example in the past several months were someone rejoined -- once.  This spamming thing ... something seems personal there

Just because you don't see it happen yourself does not mean it does not happen. I sometimes go days without seeing it myself then on other days its a regular thing. Its not common but its an obvious flaw in the system. 

5 hours ago, Astarae said:

 How they gonna learn to do mechs if nobody goes with them? 

Host your own? Just ask your clan to help you or some friends.. If your clan doesnt help you then leave your clan and find one that does (A clan that doesn't help its members is useless and does not deserve you). I didn't even bother doing ST myself until I was fully vt geared. When I was, I hosted one myself with some people, practiced, and I was set to go for daily running/multis from there on out. Its not a hard thing to do it just takes effort.. This was done similarly for other dungeons like DD (I waited until I was raven 9 for that), HH (waited until i was raven 6). If you want to rush content with low end gear dont try sneak into a high gear group. You're just asking to get kicked..

 

I agree some of the requirements are ridiculous but you need to keep in mind that after the nerfs that BNS did to weeklies our main source of income now is dailies. A lot of us have jobs to go to and we don't want to (nor have the time to) spend all day doing a dungeon because someone is low geared or doesn't know mechs or both.. We need to get in and get out. The BNS devs promote this behavior by forcing us to spend 3 hours a day grinding dailies (3 hours is ridiculous for a game like this that is basically forcing you to wait months to get gear up through daily grinds). 

 

[Astarae]

13 hours ago, Crickateer said:

If you join a dungeon without the gear that the party leader is looking for and are kicked without a word that is your own fault. You do not deserve a message why as its common sense why you were kicked... you didn't meet the listed gear requirements that was posted in the message... You are wasting everyone's time by joining at that point.

But if you meet their listed requirements and are kicked, that is annoying and more often what I see, both for myself, and others -- far more frequently than someone who doesn't meet requirements continually re-joining.

 

It would be more productive to address the more egregious behaviors first.

Quote

 

Host your own? Just ask your clan to help you or some friends.. If your clan doesnt help you then leave your clan and find one that does (A clan that doesn't help its members is useless and does not deserve you).

That describes >50% of clans so far.  Another problem.

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I didn't even bother doing ST myself until I was fully vt geared. When I was, I hosted one myself with some people, practiced, and I was set to go for daily running/multis from there on out. Its not a hard thing to do it just takes effort.. This was done similarly for other dungeons like DD (I waited until I was raven 9 for that), HH (waited until i was raven 6). If you want to rush content with low end gear dont try sneak into a high gear group. You're just asking to get kicked..

I had higher gear than you in both of your examples and experienced kicking (probably still will). 

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I agree some of the requirements are ridiculous but you need to keep in mind that after the nerfs that BNS did to weeklies our main source of income now is dailies. A lot of us have jobs to go to and we don't want to (nor have the time to) spend all day doing a dungeon because someone is low geared or doesn't know mechs or both.. We need to get in and get out. The BNS devs promote this behavior by forcing us to spend 3 hours a day grinding dailies (3 hours is ridiculous for a game like this that is basically forcing you to wait months to get gear up through daily grinds). 

Not going to disagree.  BnS evolved from a primitive need to entertain people for hours on end with little content -- so grinding was introduced.  It's a sign of a poor game design trying to hold back high level players with a mindless mechanism that needs to be enforced by anti-cheat additions.  The first anti-cheat clients were to stop auto-farming, not help in PvP, because as humans, most of us have started to use tools to do mind-numbing farming tasks which are easily automated.  That game designers would rely on such shows how little they respect players.

 

[MassiveEgo]

17 hours ago, Astarae said:

Can be -- there is a difference between knowing mechs and doing them.  How they gonna learn to do mechs if nobody goes with them?  How many people who say "know mechs", think they can watch a brain surgery video and know they know brain surgery...it's a joke right?  Cuz it sure doesn't sounds like it.  I remember someone razzing me for not knowing mechs, and I said if I don't know them its cuz people like you can't teach them.

The default state of lobbies in f8 is "we don't take people with no knowledge", unless specified otherwise;

Instead of trying to force themselves on parties that don't want them, they can ask via private message if the party leader would be willing to take them. Be nice and the chances to get kindness in response dramatically increase. Nobody would like that scrub who keeps joining despite appearing absolutely worthless to that particular lobby and unwanted in it.

[Astarae]

1 hour ago, MassiveEgo said:

The default state of lobbies in f8 is "we don't take people with no knowledge", unless specified otherwise;

Instead of trying to force themselves on parties that don't want them, they can ask via private message if the party leader would be willing to take them. Be nice and the chances to get kindness in response dramatically increase. Nobody would like that scrub who keeps joining despite appearing absolutely worthless to that particular lobby and unwanted in it.

The default opening in F8 comes and goes away faster than you can even click on the leader and see what level they are.  How you'd think that people would have time to ask what level of proficiency is acceptable?  FWIW...one time, I DID have time to do just what you said for a HM run of SSM.  I thought SSM was far easier than some other dungeons, so HM might not be so bad....I casually mentioned that I did have the 100 run achievement for SSM...  1st, they wanted proof (we were in F8...can't open accomplishments page)... then they said they'd want it when we got in pre-run lobby.  In the pre-run area, looking for accomp. I 1st ran into _title_ for HM-SSM completion and the fast-mode of HM-SSM (clan party where everyone was same lvl as me (+/-1) and easily OP'd the dungeon). 

 

The group leader didn't know those titles, so not proof.  I couldn't figure out how to copy the specific option and said so, they said control-click...ok... I sent it to them.  They asked me for a different option -- the one for 300 kills.  They stopped asking when I pointed out I gave them the 100 kill proof, and the one they mentioned was for 300 kills (guess they didn't have it either, but assumed it was the accomplishment they wanted cuz that's what was in that accomplishment box after they finished 100-kills. 

 

By time all that had finished, everyone was waiting on me at the final boss.  I didn't even have time to use normal charms/potions or optimize equipment.  Lovely.

Still finished it -- but barely... cuz I went through 2 res charms (long battle), as well as 2 party res charms when more than 2-3 people were down.  I had 2nd highest

DPS in group, and died just before kill cuz the one person who could carry the fire buff and heal fast enough to overcome the burn damage (HM fire buff delivers

constant hi damage -- I have over 200k HP w/20HM points in defense) had died and I had been stuck w/it.

 

That was *1* time I had enough time to ask before hand, and resulted in a thoroughly unsatisfying dungeon run -- their only comment was a lol at the end when 

boss died.  Someone else in that group even had run w/me before and spoke up, but leader wanted their specific proof (this after we were already in dungeon

and presumably was only needed to decide whether to kick me or not for mentioning it up front rather than keeping quiet.

 

Soooo...asking in advance -- not very possible -- usually, and pretty unrewarding when possible (~2-3am)... 

 

If I had a massive ego, I could have just faked it, no doubt. :-/ 

 

Asked about this subject in faction was told to just join and go and fake-it-till-ya-make-it.  More lovely.

 

 

 

[Crickateer]

If you get kicked even though lets say you have a3 for an a3+ group, its likely because you don't have badge. A3 groups expect the members to be fully vt geared pretty much. If you are kicked from a 1.2k or a 1.1k group its probably because you are boosted using things like immortality earring. 1.2k =vt geared, 1.1k = bt geared. You dont have to have those exact numbers but that seems to be the norm. 

 

If you are still getting kicked.. I have no idea at that point but I dont even have 1.2k AP myself (even though im vt geared) and I never get kicked from 1.2k parties or any other party for that matter.

[MassiveEgo]

@Astarae What do you mean not possible? Your chat is there and you can use it. As to whether you get granted entry, that's not guaranteed and I never said it was. What I said it, if you need dungeon runs for experience, cause you claimed you need to do dungeons to get experience, you can pm people and ask if they can take your newbie self with them so you can gain that experience. Easy;

As for the ego part - absolutely (in more ways than one)!

 

@Crickateer I never got kicked as well, but that's probably cause I main a tank. people would take me as long as I can keep the aggro off their hides :D

[Astarae]

2 hours ago, Crickateer said:

If you get kicked even though lets say you have a3 for an a3+ group, its likely because you don't have badge. A3 groups expect the members to be fully vt geared pretty much. If you are kicked from a 1.2k or a 1.1k group its probably because you are boosted using things like immortality earring. 1.2k =vt geared, 1.1k = bt geared. You dont have to have those exact numbers but that seems to be the norm. 

 

If you are still getting kicked.. I have no idea at that point but I dont even have 1.2k AP myself (even though im vt geared) and I never get kicked from 1.2k parties or any other party for that matter.

I rarely get kicked up front...more likely tween multi runs if wasn't perfect on prior.  One person kicked me after DD, for getting spat on by boss#2 when I had been underneath boss and hooked out.  Apparently I hooked out too far and got spat on and they said they'd been prepared to take it...but said that what I did would have wiped the party in HM.  I'm all, "oh"...ok -- but it wasn't HM, and i asked what did it do in NM...as that is what we were in, they just said nvrmind, and kickd me at end. 

 

That said -- if they ask for a3+ and want people to have badge...that's just stupid on their part - since for me, badge was nxt to last thing I got (gloves were last). but "boosted" because someone has standard gear?  how does immortality give you 1.2k exp?  It add at most 6 points over the fire earring.

 

I never made the claim that everyone was acting intelligently.

 

Not likely I'd get kicked on equipment or pre-reqs these days:

https://bnstree.com/character/na/Astará 

 

 

 

@MassiveEgo -- I made the point that I had been able to ask because it was 3 in the morning and slow.  Normally during most times of day, there is no time to try to chat to them before a run..while you are in chat, the group has filled up -- unless you joined 1st and then chatted -- but then they are rushed and can often express annoyance that you wasted their time -- even if you meet listed verifiable pre-reqs.  

 

 

[Crickateer]

18 hours ago, Astarae said:

That said -- if they ask for a3+ and want people to have badge...that's just stupid on their part - since for me, badge was nxt to last thing I got (gloves were last). but "boosted" because someone has standard gear?  how does immortality give you 1.2k exp?  It add at most 6 points over the fire earring.

Its smart on their part. Vt mystic badge is your single handedly LARGEST dps upgrade from VT. It is expected you have badge already prior since hq is the last boss of VT. It wasn't until recently that hq mats became sellable which is why you see a lot of people with aransu early now. Id rather have a player with raven 9 + vt badge than a player with aransu and no vt mystic badge even myself because the dps upgrade is just tremendous. If you have aransu as well with said badge they sync (higher effect of aransu combined with badge's effect) well together making your dps shoot up even more. 

 

Immortality earring is just an example (6 ap is a lot by the way), a lot of players use things like that and other AP accessories/gear to boost their ap up since they are misguided and do not know elemental damage is king. These players often end up being kicked for such ignorance and then end up complaining about it. 

[Astarae]

5 hours ago, Crickateer said:

Its smart on their part. Vt mystic badge is your single handedly LARGEST dps upgrade from VT.

If you believe DPS is the only metric you need, then just ask for 1.x K DPS...  Going with Ar3+ because you think it implies(=>) a badge, because you think that => DPS just boils down to DPS -- which is the most often asked for stat anyway.   

 

I'll occasionally state:   XX DPS or [r|a]lvl.   To presume 'a3' => X because X might => DPS is making a double assumption.  Generally assuming anything isn't considered a good thing -- it seems a double assumption is even more likely to be wrong.

5 hours ago, Crickateer said:

... the dps upgrade is just tremendous

all they need is 1 gilded diamond and it will throw any and all DP-based metrics out of alignment.

5 hours ago, Crickateer said:

 

 

. If you have aransu as well with said badge they sync (higher effect of aransu combined with badge's effect) well together making your dps shoot up even more. 

 

Immortality earring is just an example (6 ap is a lot by the way).

Compared to a AP boosting diamond?  6 is way less than the lowest diamond.  If you are thinking that a boost of 6 AP is alot, just their gem count is likely to through off calculations, let alone if one is a diamond.  Add in souls and hearts to give up to 99 AP, thinking that 6 AP _is_ a lot, today, seems more like outdated thinking than a useful metric.  

 

Maybe those who kick are ones who have outdated priorities -- not that such makes it feel any better if one is on the receiving end.

 

[Crickateer]

I never stated I believe dps was the only metric or this and that. I only stated what whales are looking for and why someone gets kicked with aransu when a group asks for aransu. When I make my own group I make it clear what im looking for, I agree it is misleading to just state aransu + (without listing you want badge), but whales assume you have badge so..  thats how "they" look at it.

 

Stop cherry picking my post about 6 AP and making exaggerated  assumptions as well. I was stating that the players using nothing, but AP accessories over raid ones like BT elementals often get kicked for being boosted like that. 6 AP + all the other AP they gain from other AP accessories as well (Its not just 6 AP, its even more AP than that because they are using a whole set of boosted gear. Immortality earring was just an example of ONE piece of boosted gear I could list the others thats used with it on boosted players but its common knowledge what they are). 

 

Also goodluck getting a gilded in this game lol. Octagonal gems themselves aren't even worth the effort in funding in unless you max everything (Just way too expensive for such a small dps upgrade). Everyone I know with octagonal + gems got them from merchant/events/trove. Just FYI too going from something like a heptagonal diamond to a gilded (because by vt time you should have a heptagonal set anyways) is nowhere near comparable to the dps upgrade you'd get from badge, lol. (heptagonal diamond to gilded is like a 5k increase, vt mystic badge is like a 40-50k increase)

 

Anyways this is going offtopic. Lets stick to the key issue here that players are abusing the joining system. There is NO excuse for spamming rejoin (if your feelings are hurt thats irrelevant), its just abusing the system at place and trolling. Players should not be allowed to rejoin a lobby like that. 

 

 

[MassiveEgo]

@Crickateer This might be a bit offtopic and silly, but isn't immortality earring trash compared to true boss earring? Why not use that for the AP boost? It has far superior general stats when compared to immortality too. 

[Crickateer]

4 hours ago, MassiveEgo said:

@Crickateer This might be a bit offtopic and silly, but isn't immortality earring trash compared to true boss earring? Why not use that for the AP boost? It has far superior general stats when compared to immortality too. 

I cannot comprehend the minds of boosted players sorry lol. They seem to use awful gear in general, but you're right

[Granger]

I dont understand why immortality earring is being discussed here when ap boosting mostly happens trough destiny ring, high level gems and way too early weapon upgrades

[Astarae]

Because no one (or almost no one) actually teaches mechs or dungeon runs to newer players, so DPS and AP are subbed-in for running dungeons w/low AP + training.  Very few know the mechs well enough to be able to teach them.

 

 

[MassiveEgo]

5 hours ago, Astarae said:

Because no one (or almost no one) actually teaches mechs or dungeon runs to newer players, so DPS and AP are subbed-in for running dungeons w/low AP + training.  Very few know the mechs well enough to be able to teach them.

This is ridiculous, considering this game is painfully easy to learn. Here's the rule that gets people to succeed "Don't do whatever you did that ended with you dying". It's literally that simple. There are a few more complex mechanics to do, like the shadow world mechs in certain dungeons, or the mechs in epic raids, but they are not hard in a sense of being overwhelming, they're more about precision. And when it comes to precisions, repetition leads to perfection.

[Astarae]

20 hours ago, MassiveEgo said:

This is ridiculous, considering this game is painfully easy to learn. Here's the rule that gets people to succeed "Don't do whatever you did that ended with you dying". It's literally that simple. There are a few more complex mechanics to do, like the shadow world mechs in certain dungeons, or the mechs in epic raids, but they are not hard in a sense of being overwhelming, they're more about precision. And when it comes to precisions, repetition leads to perfection.

about 70-80% of the time it as due to a party wipe.  While I'd love to solo some of these dungeons, I don't think your advice is realistic.

 

Alot of single-person auto-deaths are due to passing over some magical line or getting too many "setup" buffs.  Magical lines and stacked buffs aren't

always easy to isolate.  But you highlight the biggest problem.  The people that ARE good at seeing EVERYTHING that goes on don't get that not everyone sees that 

way and what is obvious to them is hidden to others -- especially those without years of multi-player games.  This is my first, modern, multi-player game.

 

What am I supposed to say to the guy who has played several and claims that he is running 'tt' and only been playing this game for 2 months?

 

"That's nice."  is what I said.  I wasn't sure whether to believe him or not...though I tended to be a bit doubtful, there was no way I'm even close to that fast.

 

And to those that see the exact causes each time and can fix them in subseqent runs I'd say much the same thing "That's nice."

 

 

[MassiveEgo]

Noone said BnS was for total newbies to the genre. Gaming is super inclusive in the sense that there's a game for pretty much anybody. That doesn't mean every game is for everybody. Quite the contrary. You don't walk in a gallery to see an artist's life works and somehow instantly have higher understanding of his craft, when all you've ever done for a living is diving, with golf as a hobby. Same here. Give this game to someone who's playing chess for example and he'll be lost. It's up to the players to get up to speed in this game, just like in any other game.

[Dante666]

Nope. Kicking from party IS kind of promoting toxic behaviour and many already abuse, like somebody said before. If the game need to enforce a minimum gear system it should update the existing one like in F8 had before.