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On 7/18/2018 at 4:50 PM, LuIius said:

if you actually pay attention to how people preform it is fairly clear, people who do arena and are at a decent level will generally know the in and outs of their class as well as other classes. Apart from that they will also usually have the mechanical skill which the people holding rightclick in dungeons is not as likely to have. pvp also requires working internet and pc which lowers the risk of dcs.

Again like I said there are plenty good players who don't pvp. So you're basically saying that you must pvp to do well in pve which isn't the case at all. Then you're comparing people who don't know how to play their class in pve (people holding right click) to players that do decent in pvp. Maybe you just haven't seen a player who only pve and knows their class in and out, they usually don't pug dungeons and stick to their clans so that's probably why.

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7 minutes ago, SalemK said:

Again like I said there are plenty good players who don't pvp. So you're basically saying that you must pvp to do well in pve which isn't the case at all. Then you're comparing people who don't know how to play their class in pve (people holding right click) to players that do decent in pvp. Maybe you just haven't seen a player who only pve and knows their class in and out, they usually don't pug dungeons and stick to their clans so that's probably why.

I don't remember saying that you have to pvp to be good at pve, and I don't remember saying that all pve only people are trash, but to me it's painfully obvious there's a difference between the average pve player and the average pve+pvp player.

 

As I said, which you may have missed, I've been leading raids and dungeons for over a year now. I've been running bt since crossing was a thing on third boss, the party composition has changed drastically over the last year mainly due to people quitting the game etc. so I've had to recruit new players.

 

When I'm sent a bnstree link I always take note of what their 1v1 rating is, the people who have actually won some games have (aprox) 95/100 times been worth keeping in the raid due to excellent performance. On the other hand the people whom have been below 1400 have had a much higher chance of being kicked due to poor performance. 

 

after recruiting new people and basically replacing everyone the people we ended up keeping for an optimized sell raid were: 3 people gold+ each season, 1 guy who was hovering in silver and 4 people who didn't do pvp at all. what we'd do when recruiting someone was we let him come one week, if he was good we kept him, if he wasn't preforming well we kicked him.   Considering the amount of people who does arena pvp compared to the amount of people who doesn't how we ended up with half a team of people that did both pvp and pve kinda says something, at least in my opinion.

 

same thing has happened now on later days with vt. pvp population has gone down even more since bt days but we're currently 4 pvpers and 7 pvers.

 

I know you're gonna disagree and I'm awaiting an angry response, I'm guessing it is because you don't pvp either but you still consider yourself above average in pve, which is totally possible and not that unlikely as I don't usually see the average f8 pug use the forums.

 

My reasoning behind why the pvp+pve players might be better which you quoted me at is simply speculation, I don't know why the average pvp+pve player seem to be better than those who only pve, I just know that numbers don't usually lie, not on that scale.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, LuIius said:

I don't remember saying that you have to pvp to be good at pve, and I don't remember saying that all pve only people are trash, but to me it's painfully obvious there's a difference between the average pve player and the average pve+pvp player.

 

As I said, which you may have missed, I've been leading raids and dungeons for over a year now. I've been running bt since crossing was a thing on third boss, the party composition has changed drastically over the last year mainly due to people quitting the game etc. so I've had to recruit new players.

 

When I'm sent a bnstree link I always take note of what their 1v1 rating is, the people who have actually won some games have (aprox) 95/100 times been worth keeping in the raid due to excellent performance. On the other hand the people whom have been below 1400 have had a much higher chance of being kicked due to poor performance. 

 

after recruiting new people and basically replacing everyone the people we ended up keeping for an optimized sell raid were: 3 people gold+ each season, 1 guy who was hovering in silver and 4 people who didn't do pvp at all. what we'd do when recruiting someone was we let him come one week, if he was good we kept him, if he wasn't preforming well we kicked him.   Considering the amount of people who does arena pvp compared to the amount of people who doesn't how we ended up with half a team of people that did both pvp and pve kinda says something, at least in my opinion.

 

same thing has happened now on later days with vt. pvp population has gone down even more since bt days but we're currently 4 pvpers and 7 pvers.

 

I know you're gonna disagree and I'm awaiting an angry response, I'm guessing it is because you don't pvp either but you still consider yourself above average in pve, which is totally possible and not that unlikely as I don't usually see the average f8 pug use the forums.

 

My reasoning behind why the pvp+pve players might be better which you quoted me at is simply speculation, I don't know why the average pvp+pve player seem to be better than those who only pve, I just know that numbers don't usually lie, not on that scale.

 

 

Maybe there was a miscommunication then, reading your comment it seems that you were hinting at pvp players being far better than those who don't. I get what you're saying to some extent.

 

I'm disagreeing simply because I haven't come across the things that you have and I just don't get how pvp correlates to pve, in pve it's more about mechanics if anything. I wouldn't give an angry response simply because we have different opinions. Would be nice if an experiment could be done on this and the results presented. I actually do both but don't pvp nearly as much as I did when I first started since I find it boring going up against the same people over and over, only pvp I do now is clan 6v6. It's just that there are many players in my clan who are experienced with their class regardless of their pvp status.

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28 minutes ago, SalemK said:

Maybe there was a miscommunication then, reading your comment it seems that you were hinting at pvp players being far better than those who don't. I get what you're saying to some extent.

 

I'm disagreeing simply because I haven't come across the things that you have and I just don't get how pvp correlates to pve, in pve it's more about mechanics if anything. I wouldn't give an angry response simply because we have different opinions. Would be nice if an experiment could be done on this and the results presented. I actually do both but don't pvp nearly as much as I did when I first started since I find it boring going up against the same people over and over, only pvp I do now is clan 6v6. It's just that there are many players in my clan who are experienced with their class regardless of their pvp status.

Glad to see that you're not gonna be mad about it.

As I said I'm not sure what it is that makes the average pvp+pve player I meet better than the average pve only player I meet. I'm guessing it's: knowledge of their class and other classes, practice in quick thinking and reflexes, practice in recognizing the targets animations and reacting accordingly and the willingness to put time into the game in order to get better at it. 

 

imo I've already made the experiment, I have no hard numbers to present and I'm simply working from memory and old discord dms, but that's enough for me to draw my conclusion; it's safer to trust someone willing to put time an effort into arena 1v1 enough to get good at it, than it is to trust those that don't. (with preforming well in pve)

 

however further experiments can of course be conducted.

 

(also my own clan mates seem to be way better than the average pug... not sure why that is but it seems to be the same for you)

Edited by LuIius
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Theres some simple truths to this: those that do pvp tend to put more work into the game; they tend to be more experienced and rarely be casual players.

Likewise, with pugs you're getting the worst of the worst: people that either lack connections (inexperience! or poor co-ordination/sociability) or lack the skills to be accepted into fixed groups.

 

But even so, i dont think its actually a good metric to judge people by, all it tells you is that this person puts some extra effort, while those that put effort also but not into PvP also are experienced and good at their class (and chances good at others too) do not get any badge saying so.

You're right in thinking that on averange those with proof of effort tend to be better than those without proof but thats a given isnt it?

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