Can Garnet give AP instead of Boss AP?

[Kozuki]

I don't understand why Garnet has to give Boss AP (PvE) only, instead of universal AP (both PvE and PvP).

 

The thing with Boss AP is that it is doesn't get added to your total AP. In F8, I many times get kicked from 1,100AP party cuz I have 1080 AP, while my actually PvE AP should be more than 1100. But yeah, people often feel it a hassle to check if I have a Garnet or not. May as well just use a Citrine/Emerald instead.

 

Its bonus is not jaw-dropping either. Only critical rating which is not very useful to PvP. Later, it will become critical damage, though still strictly useful only to PvE. So nothing to be abused even if it suddenly gives universal AP.

 

So yeah, I think Garnet should just give normal AP instead.

[SilverFoxR]

One thing you can do to skirt the problem is to have another jewel in your inventory and, before entering a cross-server dungeon, equip that gem instead of your garnet. Once you're in the dungeon, switch back. That way, you get around the narrow-minded, commonly-unnecessary AP requirement.

[LoliDolly]

1 minute ago, SilverFoxR said:

One thing you can do to skirt the problem is to have another jewel in your inventory and, before entering a cross-server dungeon, equip that gem instead of your garnet. Once you're in the dungeon, switch back. That way, you get around the narrow-minded, commonly-unnecessary AP requirement.

ya this is a good idea. There is that also annoying issue of accessories like the bt earring and ring causing the same problem with its much lower ap than the other accessorries such as pinnacle items. I used to keep pinnacle stuff in my inventory and wear them for f8 just to meet AP requirements then switch back to my bt element accessories once inside the dungeon.

 

Since were on the subject of garnet though. I have steered away from that particular gem because i get so much mixed information of whether or not they are any good to bother having. Some people told me the garnet is useless if its not the same tier as the rest of your gems. I guess im curious is that 20 boss AP really any better than having a normal gem with regular 20 AP? Is the extra crit stat what makes it appealing to players? Just curious

[RavTH]

boss ap works in pve like in raids.

[SkyStorm]

I use a garnet because bosses are the only relevant enemy in pve. I don't pound on the mobs standing between me and the boss as hard as I could, but I don't get a reward for killing mobs (discounting the tiny exp gain) and a lot of them can be killed with a couple of hits anyway.

[Granger]

Theres basically 3 things that govern garnets usefulness,

1. Citrines effect is literally trash.

2. Crit has dimishing returns, so if your gear has great crit already adding that bit crit isnt gonna be doing much.

3. Upgrading garnets is a painful and long ordeal... that you cant really speed up in any way.

 

Therefore garnet > citrines and even worse gems, but octagonal gems > hexagonal garnet. 

They're awesome early on but later on their usefulness will dimish, at some point you might want to consider replacing them with citrines if only because of the extra ap. (considering the boss ap and normal ap equivalent)

[Crickateer]

2 hours ago, LoliDolly said:

 I guess im curious is that 20 boss AP really any better than having a normal gem with regular 20 AP? Is the extra crit stat what makes it appealing to players? Just curious

My parses are higher with my heptagonal garnet compared to a heptagonal gem (e.g. periodot/emerald). So theres more to boss AP than we know likely. I would argue simply because of this boss AP is superior. Not to mention just about any mob with a cc bar counts as a boss (even the trash mobs in NF with cc bars)

[Cor]

2 hours ago, Crickateer said:

My parses are higher with my heptagonal garnet compared to a heptagonal gem (e.g. periodot/emerald). So theres more to boss AP than we know likely. I would argue simply because of this boss AP is superior. Not to mention just about any mob with a cc bar counts as a boss (even the trash mobs in NF with cc bars)

You do more dmg with the garnet because of the extra crit, there is no difference between 20 ap and 20 boss ap when fighting a boss.

[Crickateer]

5 minutes ago, Cor said:

You do more dmg with the garnet because of the extra crit, there is no difference between 20 ap and 20 boss ap when fighting a boss.

The extra crit from garnet is so small thats just not the case. I do about 5-8k extra using garnet. Especially when your crit is in the upper 50s its unlikely such a small boost to crit would cause that

[Grimoir]

2 hours ago, Cor said:

You do more dmg with the garnet because of the extra crit, there is no difference between 20 ap and 20 boss ap when fighting a boss.

No, your boss AP is higher and you do more damage due to it to boss monsters.

@LoliDolly

 

BT accessories have low AP for a reason, they are boosting your damage far more wit the elemental damage. Currently all other stats / gear are more important than a blank AP number. some people are just stupid and only look at AP which they should not.

[SkyStorm]

Just tested a hex periodot against a garnet of the same size in f12. Base damage was the same and the difference in critical damage was insignificant. 

 

Time to throw the garnet into my vault, at least until they change critical rate to critical damage.

[Crickateer]

2 hours ago, SkyStorm said:

Just tested a hex periodot against a garnet of the same size in f12. Base damage was the same and the difference in critical damage was insignificant. 

 

Time to throw the garnet into my vault, at least until they change critical rate to critical damage.

Are you doing general moyun? Are you also doing like 3 parses for both? (total of 6) There can be variation in your parses and its important to factor that in, I had much different results showing garnet being the king. You shouldn't be caring about the critical damage difference. What you should be looking at is your sustained dps difference. Garnet came out top every time for me

[Cor]

9 hours ago, Grimoir said:

No, your boss AP is higher and you do more damage due to it to boss monsters.

No it is not higher, a normal gem gives ap to boss ap and pvp ap while a boss gem gives it only to boss ap. You have the same boss ap whether its a normal or boss gem only difference is that it doesn't add ap to pvp dmg.

 

11 hours ago, Crickateer said:

The extra crit from garnet is so small thats just not the case. I do about 5-8k extra using garnet. Especially when your crit is in the upper 50s its unlikely such a small boost to crit would cause that

See above, either it does or you didn't do a proper parse.

[MAX2016ACE]

i think we should get a new option to fuse the diamond and the garnet so we get a new gem with both stats attack power, boss attack power and Crit 

 

that is how we get to use the garnet cuz it's useless unless your low level and have bad crit on your soul shields

[SkyStorm]

@Crickateer I didn't do 6 parses; My rotations start getting sloppy after a few minutes due to a neurological problem that affects my motor control. I don't think it would make a difference if I had - I eliminated other potential factors by removing my pet aura, using an iron weapon, and only equipping the one gem I was testing. Then I went through the combat log and separated the critical from the non-critical; if boss AP has some hidden property, it should become apparent in the non-critical damage.

 

I went into f12 expecting the garnet to be superior; I'd tested it before and the garnet seemed to be better, but I had a different soul shield back then so the difference I saw must have been from the slight improvement in crit rate and nothing more.

[Granger]

Either way, garnet will do more for your dps than citrine will, no matter how minute. On the same tiers theres no reason to use citrines over garnets.

[SilverFoxR]

23 hours ago, LoliDolly said:

ya this is a good idea. There is that also annoying issue of accessories like the bt earring and ring causing the same problem with its much lower ap than the other accessorries such as pinnacle items. I used to keep pinnacle stuff in my inventory and wear them for f8 just to meet AP requirements then switch back to my bt element accessories once inside the dungeon.

If you raise the level of the BT accessories a little bit, they'll give more AP than your Pinnacle accessories. I think about lv 3 or higher should do the trick. I mean, you should be trying to raise them as much as possible regardless, since the other passive bonuses they give will also increase your DPS by quite a bit.

[RavTH]

23 hours ago, Granger said:

3. Upgrading garnets is a painful and long ordeal... that you cant really speed up in any way.

 

I have to disagree with that, I do koldrak on alts and main 1 times a day and at the end of month I am almost close to getting octa.

[Crickateer]

4 hours ago, SkyStorm said:

@Crickateer I didn't do 6 parses; My rotations start getting sloppy after a few minutes due to a neurological problem that affects my motor control.

While im sorry to hear about your condition that just proves your parse is unreliable.

[Crickateer]

9 hours ago, Cor said:

 

 

See above, either it does or you didn't do a proper parse.

Parse was done properly. You are clearly wrong

[SkyStorm]

Sorry, didn't know you wrote the rules on parsing. I'll leave it in your capable hands.

[Crickateer]

7 minutes ago, SkyStorm said:

Sorry, didn't know you wrote the rules on parsing. I'll leave it in your capable hands.

Its common sense... if you are getting bad rotations off each time you aren't showing your true sustained dps for your class w/ current gear. The whole point of parsing is to weed out boosted players for raids that build up AP over things like elemental damage or players with something like aransu + pinnacle accessories lol. I didn't write the rules, common sense did.

[SkyStorm]

Who said my rotations were bad? I didn't. I just didn't do 6 of them. I know that fluctuations occur, but lengthening the time span for aberrations in ping, server response time, etc., does not produce results that are more reliable. It just allows for more unknowns to creep in. That may be contrary to the opinion held by this community, but I wasn't on the committee that made that determination.

 

The whole point of my parsing was not to weed out boosted players, it was to test the garnet. I did so to my satisfaction and shared the results, and only shared because I did an about face on it. Discard my results, trample on them, urinate on them if you like. I don't care - I wasn't trying to prove anything.

[Cor]

1 hour ago, Crickateer said:

Parse was done properly. You are clearly wrong

Can you read...? :

10 hours ago, Cor said:

No it is not higher, a normal gem gives ap to boss ap and pvp ap while a boss gem gives it only to boss ap. You have the same boss ap whether its a normal or boss gem only difference is that it doesn't add ap to pvp dmg.

This is a fact, it's not something you can argue about so obviously i'm not wrong and you are only embarassing yourself with such a reply.

[Crickateer]

40 minutes ago, SkyStorm said:

Who said my rotations were bad? I didn't. I just didn't do 6 of them. I know that fluctuations occur, but lengthening the time span for aberrations in ping, server response time, etc., does not produce results that are more reliable. It just allows for more unknowns to creep in. That may be contrary to the opinion held by this community, but I wasn't on the committee that made that determination.

 

The whole point of my parsing was not to weed out boosted players, it was to test the garnet. I did so to my satisfaction and shared the results, and only shared because I did an about face on it. Discard my results, trample on them, urinate on them if you like. I don't care - I wasn't trying to prove anything.

The whole of parsing is to weed out boosted players. I was not referring to your parse directly when i said that but them as a whole. Obviously yours was to test the garnet. I think you are taking this more personal than you should I meant no disrespect in what I said, but sometimes a blunt answer is the only answer. You are right about ping fluctuations thats why I did about 6 myself and found that for every single parse with the garnet my sustained was higher compared to using a emerald in its place. If you look at what you said regarding your condition before you made it sound like after the first couple minutes or so of a fight your dps just goes to ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ due to said condition. Its not as bad as it sounds now that you elaborated on it. 

 

18 minutes ago, Cor said:

Can you read...? :

This is a fact, it's not something you can argue about so obviously i'm not wrong and you are only embarassing yourself with such a reply.

You are stating your own "facts" without evidence. I have a parse to prove my point. That is not a fact on your side only words. Just because you say AP and boss AP are equal does not make it so. I have parses that prove they are not equal. If anyone is embarrassing themself its you and to before regarding critical causing an effect its well known knowledge that at about upper 50s to 60 for crit the gain isn't noticeable at all if there is even a gain which is why players tend to stop once they reach about 60 percent crit and fuse other things on their SS. Me going from 58% crit to 59% is not going to make a major enough difference to cause 5-8k increase in sustained dps