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Bl00df4ng

Enrage Timer on Xanos: Thoughts and Discussion

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So within the past week, there have been a few mentions of the Enrage Timer for Xanos being at 5min. For those who have seen it, this is NOT a bug in the game. It is apprently intended by NCSoft, as confirmed by their response to my support ticket on this. They clarified that the Patch Notes for the Eternal Night update stating it at 8min was wrong.

 

While I don't doubt there are people out there who can beat this time, the fact is that I feel this isn't a good change to the game for the following reasons:

 

1) Newer/Low-Tier Players - While I can't say anything regarding how newer players find the game, since I'm quite ahead myself, I have concerns about those who are trying to prepare for their Skybreak Spire run just like me. As you know, Naryu Sanctum is the place to run through for the first legendary bracelet, which is an important item for those preparing for the Skybreak Spire legendary raid. Most of these people can be expected to have at most around 1000 Attack points/power or less. Therefore, this 5min enrage makes it unrealistically challenging for these players that are trying to gear up for future raids. From my own experience, this change has meant my success only comes at the assistance of more high-tiered and experienced players, who have had their fill of end-game content. What I'm trying to explain here is that basically, new players are now caught at a 'Dead-End' so to speak, and therefore makes the gameplay quite unfair unless they are supported

 

2) Success now depends on luck - Building into the above points, while it isn't unrealistic to actually seek help from friends who definitely have the stat requirements, most payers may not have the opportunity for this, especially considering the F8 dungeon tab in which a party is assigned at random. Therefore, it creates a message where a dungeon can only be cleared if you are lucky enough to get a player that is strong enough to carry you through it. I feel that in MMOs, dungeon clearing should be based on your personal skill, character stats and understanding of the dungeon mechanics. And while Xanos doesn't have one that is too complicated, the current enrage timer makes it less of a fight based on skill/experience and now makes it a fight based on how lucky you are in getting that ideal player into your party. For those of you who have friends to help them, that's great (I mean, friends are great yes?). But bear in mind that there are those who don't.

 

3) Consistency - As stated in the game, Naryu Sanctum is a dungeon that is harder than others like Desolate Tomb, Ebondrake Citadel, Naryu Foundry. Players beneath Raven tier weapons will see this as the most challenging dungeon for them. Yet, this 5min enrage timer allocation does not reflect this. It is far shorter than any of the other bosses in easier dungeons (Acrimor being at 7-8min, correct me if I'm wrong) or even within Naryu Sanctum itself, lower than the first few bosses (Ganite titan, the first boss, has a 7min enrage, Agoni has about 15 sec more). Therefore, this enrage timer on Xanos does not reflect this, and brings to mind a consistency issue in game content

 

4) Events - With the Rising Soul event in place, it is no wonder that all players are giving it their hardest, especially when one can get a legendary soul which will be of great use in the later gameplay. However, with this event also tied to the Naryu Sanctum dungeon, the quest for a legendary soul has become that much harder. Of course, if one isn't prepared in terms of gear to run the Naryu Sanctum, then there isn't much to say. However, Naryu Sanctum is one of the more easier dungeons for most players to especially earn that last Astral Oil that could raise the chances of acquiring that legendary soul. Accounting for all the points above, this change severely harms the conducting of this event, and if this carries into long-term, there is no doubt it would harm future events as well.

 

5) Gold changes - The recent changes to dungeon and daily challenge monetary rewards have been aimed at promoting the higher end and later dungeons. While I cannot say much about this change, the fact is that Naryu Sanctum has become one of the old dungeons that still provides a good amount. This enrage timer not only makes it difficult for players to earn gold, but it can put off many in doing this dungeon due to the higher level of difficulty in place. Once more, this reiterates the 'Dead-End' point I made previously. It would mean players will be stuck at one point for a very long time before they can realistically move forward in game progression, which contradicts the aim of promoting high-level dungeons

 

Recommendations:

Taking these into account, I would like the developer team at NCSoft to revise through the current game mechanics in place as currently, the 5min enrage timer is a unrealistic change and could inflict much damage on the long-term sustainability of this MMO that I have come to enjoy playing, as it makes it unfair for newer players, who contribute to a strong gaming community. I am not suggesting returning it to the previous 10min timer, but perhaps consider a 6-7min timer instead?

 

And to the rest of the Blade and Soul community, what are your thoughts regarding this change? What has your experience been? Do describe them as a reply to this thread.

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Yaory   

The thing with Xanos is that there is no mechanics that does damage to the boss, unlike startone mines, which only have 20M more hp than xanos and self damage mechanics, and he has like 10min or + enrage timer. So a low gear party is more likely to beat starstone mines than beat sanctum  now. So yeah, this changes are really really stupid.

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i totally agree with this post..all i have to say that they are taking stupidity and ignorance to a whole new level as a game publishing company.

as many others have quit, i'm sure more and more will quit as well in the coming days/weeks.

 

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Just a quick update to my post. I have managed to clear this dungeon as we hit the enrage, but that was only in a party filled with 1k AP characters. Now, this is a number only reachable if one has the more important legendary accessories, namely the necklace, the belt and the bracelet. So as you can see, considering we need to beat Xanos 10 times to get the bracelet, it is quite infeasible unless one were to upgrade their soul (to the HM Stage 9 I believe, correct if I'm wrong here) and getting a Baleful 12.

 

Additionally, the only reason we won that fight was because I had managed a Grab (I'm a Destroyer primary) just 4 seconds before the enrage went off, which cancelled the animation and led my team to the win (Biggest near heart-attack I've ever had)

 

Once more, I refer to the 'Dead-End' that has arrived in the game and the fact that this dungeon has luck-based success in that you need a particular kind of player to get you through this.

I hope more people share their experiences (failure or success) in the hopes NCSoft finds this and acknowledges this. And do please be civil in these comments! Thanks!

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I raised this like days ago and people said there is nothing wrong. Well they really need to raise alt and try this dg with other baleful and story gears player (Pinnacles or maybe solak gear as i saw some people wear it) with new enrage.

 

Plus they said it's 8 mins while in game is 5 mins or 3 minutes shorter.. doesn't it feel bit dishonest.

 

As i said before..this changes serve NO purpose at all same as lowering dg gold reward.

 

but then people on my gear level (R9, HM14, AW soul at least) will say nothing.. maybe NC need to ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ with VT enrage (maybe giving 3 mins for HQ) for these people to finally thinning their thick skull and learn to empathize.

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Yaory   

Thise whole patch is just ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ed up, feels like they just come with stupid ideas and apply them without testing them out or whatever.

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Arohk   

Xanos might no have a dmg mechanic, but you have to stun him when he does his meditation (when the room goes dark) or he starts healing himself.

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Corvenir   

The play infographic says it can be done with 800 AP, but most teams around 1000AP without a warlock can't do it.

 

900 and below( these people for some reason don't carry revive charms and depend on others to mass revive them and die a couple seconds later)

(Full solak accessories and 3 slotted weapon, I get the feeling these are lvl 50 voucher players)

 

Now we could do nothing until they leave

(We had two below 900 if they had just survived past the first minute of the fight I'm pretty sure they could have made that 2mil hp run successful, but no)

 

2mil-5 mil how every time and enrage, then the person with 845 AP says " noobs and rage quits" and then everyone else quits and recruiting is impossible at the final boss because of the quest.

 

I may come off as rude, but I just want to beat the dungeon.

We waste time carrying people who are dead most of the fights.( Maybe they need to emphasize the importance of pet auras more) At the end 20-30minutes is wasted and everyone leaves hoping to not see those same players again.

 

This is a wall for me, for someone who has pushed their AP to 1030 (while maintaining def)without Raven... I could try to find a clan, but it's just kind of toxic out there so I don't even bother.

 

Although I have been able to complete the weeklies more often, they will probably Nerf the timers on those next.

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Hi all. For any of you lower-tier or newer players who need to run Naryu Sanctum, here's a tip to help you get past the 5min enrage on Xanos.

 

1) Click F8 and go to the dungeon lobby

2) Select Naryu Sanctum, but DO NOT hit LFP

3) At the top left of the screen is your dungeon lobby number. Left click that to promote your lobby in the chat

4) Specify what you need. An experienced player told me you can either request for an Aransu carry or simply state the AP requirements you want (It would very likely be 1000+ just to get this sorted)

 

Hopefully this helps you to get the party you need to clear this dungeon and get your bracelet. I still however find the 5min enrage timer quite unreasonable for newer/lower tier players (and I'm not talking about those <900AP players. At that level, they are nowhere near ready for this dungeon). So please continue to share your experiences regarding this time, and if you have a recommendation, do say so as well. Let us all work to promote a fair gaming experience.

Edited by Bl00df4ng

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IAmWho   
7 minutes ago, Bl00df4ng said:

I'm not talking about those <900AP players. At that level, they are nowhere near ready for this dungeon

Totally agree with this, when your AP is too low, you are never going to be ready to do it, you need 40k dps sustain each to clear it I think, so if the team has 250kish sustain, you will have no problem finishing this or if you have someone at 250k+ he can almost solo it, (I usually do 150k dps sustain, once we managed to kill it at 4:30ish and I did 51% total accumulated damage). So if you are below the mark, you are personally not eligible to do this dungeon unless someone wants to carry you. 

But 1k AP is not hard to get for real, get to baleful 10 won't take long and keep doing event and get all your gems to hexagonals, then salvage one and exchange the salvaged powder with one hex diamond in dragon express (but get to awekened soul first for this event since this can save you 5k gold), change your accessories to pinnacles (you can find their drop dungeons in equipment paths). And I believe, you get 1k+ ap ez if you do these.

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The real fix would be of course get the enrage timer back.  as the patch note clearly say something else.  If they said 8 make it 8.. not 5.

 

 

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Yaory   

It's more likely that they did a mistake on the patchnotes, So yeah, they really intended to do 5min enrage timer

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21 minutes ago, The Hepta K said:

Totally agree with this, when your AP is too low, you are never going to be ready to do it, you need 40k dps sustain each to clear it I think, so if the team has 250kish sustain, you will have no problem finishing this or if you have someone at 250k+ he can almost solo it, (I usually do 150k dps sustain, once we managed to kill it at 4:30ish and I did 51% total accumulated damage). So if you are below the mark, you are personally not eligible to do this dungeon unless someone wants to carry you. 

But 1k AP is not hard to get for real, get to baleful 10 won't take long and keep doing event and get all your gems to hexagonals, then salvage one and exchange the salvaged powder with one hex diamond in dragon express (but get to awekened soul first for this event since this can save you 5k gold), change your accessories to pinnacles (you can find their drop dungeons in equipment paths). And I believe, you get 1k+ ap ez if you do these.

Well, my current AP with the event soul (Stage 6) is at 1009. This is also accounting for pinnacle ring + earring, Lv 6 Oath neck, Lv 1 Belt, Lv 1 Bracelet and Baleful 11 with 5 hex gems. So without the soul, I wouldn't be at 1000+ AP. At most, I'll be at 970-980ish if I'm correct (can't remember the actual numbers, so I can only give a range). While the weapon is definitely easy since by then you can rage through celestial basin, it's still pretty hard to get to 1000AP without a well upgraded soul and/or the tiger bracelet.

 

Thus, I have made a point that perhaps the enrage timer should be at least 1-2min longer than it is now. At least those with 970 AP or so can manage this. As of now though, that is quite unrealistic, which makes gearing for further raid content very difficult. But I do appreciate your opinion.

Edited by Bl00df4ng
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2 hours ago, Corvenir said:

The play infographic says it can be done with 800 AP, but most teams around 1000AP without a warlock can't do it.

Actually not just most but all groups that are still at baleful can't do it.

 

And on support being ultra wise on the subject - patch notes say it's down to 8 min from 10, not down to 5. Maybe it's supposed to be down to 5 min in hard mode or something. There's no realistic way to clear this with less than a full party of baleful 10 to 12 that have both elemental jewels on and at least stage 7 bracelet. It simply isn't happening. No carry raven+ players that push the 100k = waste of time, period.

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1 minute ago, MassiveEgo said:

Actually not just most but all groups that are still at baleful can't do it.

 

And on support being ultra wise on the subject - patch notes say it's down to 8 min from 10, not down to 5. Maybe it's supposed to be down to 5 min in hard mode or something. There's no realistic way to clear this with less than a full party of baleful 10 to 12 that have both elemental jewels on and at least stage 7 bracelet. It simply isn't happening. No carry raven+ players that push the 100k = waste of time, period.

Hi Massive

It is unfortunate, but a GM confirmed with me that the patch notes statements are wrong. It was not supposed to be 8min, but 5min instead. And I do agree that this has made the dungeon more carry/luck based in success, which I fear will damage the game's newer player base.

 

For now, I have inserted a current solution in the comments above, but I'd rather this be a stopgap measure till a more realistic change be made.

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In EU we have a lot of well geared players doing low bar lobbies or just joining random lfg to get some newbies and alts through NS. But I'm pretty sure that there are tons of people that don't get so lucky and waste their time. Now that is not good at all. Is this what we want for our community? To rely on charity to get through the daily dungeon bracket that they should be able to clear on their own? How utterly ridiculous.

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Corvenir   

Finally beat it didn't do lfp had to do 1k+ and everyone properly stunned and grabbed.

 

So that means us low tier groups just can't support people with less than 900 AP and no sense of survival.

 

 

 

 

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IAmWho   
4 hours ago, Bl00df4ng said:

with 5 hex gems

get one more, and put some points on offence, then it will be easier

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IAmWho   
6 hours ago, Corvenir said:

The play infographic says it can be done with 800 AP, but most teams around 1000AP without a warlock can't do it.

Although this is true, however, AP is not the main thing here, DPS is, sometimes a 1150AP player does lower damage than a 1100AP, it's more related to how you combo. Therefore, people usually call for higher AP to prevent #noobplayers who don't know how to DPS with their current gear. well, a 1.1k+ bm with only flickering still deals more damage than a 1k bm doing as many DTs as possible.

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Kozuki   

I said this change is very bad move that doesn't take account of how the game works in NA.

 

When the dungeon was first launched and the enrage timer was still 10 minutes, players' weapon demographic was varied from Stage 10 Baleful/Seraph (Xanos drops Xanos disc to upgrade these) to Dawnforged/Riftwalk/Raven 6. It was also a harder dungeon where Normal Mode could wipe you if not doing mech properly (Xanos instant wiped you upon a slight mistake). 

 

An average normal party with 800-900AP, arguably more well-built, experienced than our current average 900-1,000AP party with giveaway things,  would clear Xanos with enrager timer being 2-3 minutes left, so they need liked 7-8 minutes to clear. We can minus one minute from the clear time cuz there was instant-wipe mech that you had to follow, thus DPS downtime

 

Later, the dungeon become easier, with Xanos no longer instant wipe you, allowing more new players to access the dungeon.

 

Now, it seems that NCWest thinks that dungeon is now too easy or something, so they decide to make it "harder" by shortening enrage timer. This is the first time I saw a dungeon get buff in term of difficulty, but with worse rewards.

 

It become harder to clear for new players (you cannot expect new players to play like you who has being played for a long time), and the worsened rewards does not reflect the efforts they have to spend. In fact, it is like to mock them.

 

Why don't they nerf enrage timer of DT/EC/NF, but only NS? I can only explain that they want to make it difficult for new players to access materials and gold, thus forcing them to either play a lot, swipe to shorten the grind, or just simply quit the game. I think they don't care if F2P players need more time to get into the game to become potential payers. They try to force F2P players to become instant payers or have enough patience to follow the game and adapt to their whimsical business model, and chase out ones who don't want to pay or grind. Cuz they don't pay or grind for their game, anyway.

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33 minutes ago, The Hepta K said:

get one more, and put some points on offence, then it will be easier

Hi Hepta,

 

True, that is a solution. Unfortunately some players get hit with bad RNG for upgrading the weapon, hence why we are still stuck at 5 Hex gems. I'd get another if I could, but I don't have it right now. But I do know about the Gem hammers on the market, and I do have a plan.

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Baal13   

A well designed party that can pick up the boss with KDs or some CC is generally how my clan is doing NS  .  many gear types are used depending on what the party needs . its odd because the disks people need to evo weapons several levels lower than raven dont always have the stats to do the cave as fast as needed .

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IAmWho   
16 hours ago, Bl00df4ng said:

But I do know about the Gem hammers on the market, and I do have a plan.

OH ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤, You know you can keep rerolling stage 1 balefule/seraphs until you get 6 slots? gem hammers are too costly. You can reroll them in the Grand Harvest Square in SilverFrost Forest. It's 5 naryu silvers every reroll, naryu silvers or coins are almost worthless, you will have thousands of those in the future, so use them. But baleful 11 is kinda too late i think

 

Edited by The Hepta K

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JIFSTER   
4 minutes ago, The Hepta K said:

OH ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤, You know you can keep rerolling stage 1 balefule/seraphs until you get 6 slots? gem hammers are too costly. You can reroll them in the Grand Harvest Square in SilverFrost Forest. It's 5 naryu silvers every reroll, naryu silvers or coins are almost worthless, you will have thousands of those in the future, so use them. But baleful 11 is kinda too late i think

 

Poor guy, just found out he has to start alllllll over :(

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IAmWho   
3 minutes ago, JIFSTER said:

Poor guy, just found out he has to start alllllll over :(

not really, to start all over, the cost will be almost the same if he just buy those legendary hammers now i think

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