Eckogen

Eternal Night

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Eckogen   

I would imagine this raid will be scaled down for NA? Because only a small portion of people in NA would even have the recommended DPS if we're getting it exactly how it is in KR.

 

When ET was released in KR they had their second soul and bracelet slots. I understand we are only getting boss 1 and 2; however this raid content is feeling rushed. NA is not ready.

 

Edited by Eckogen

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If NC doesn't nerf the raid, I think outroar is gonna happen.

 

People will be very angry and frustrated/desperate when they learn that even with the max gears that they've farmed/paid for, they still can't clear the raid due to ping reason, which is something that even cashing for gears can't fix.

 

This raid requires absolute max gears and very low ping. So if you don't BOTH have max gears AND live close to server (basically you gotta live in U.S or Canada if you play NA server) you ain't gonna meet the dps requirement. And thus you are likely to never be able to clear. 

 

Many clans of SEA or BR players aren't gonna be able to clear this thing.

 

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Cauli   

What were the exact numbers again for Taecheon? Somewhere in the range of 500k sustained DPS per person, or >700k if you count in the mech phases where you can barely DPS the boss. Heck, most raids don't even make those numbers with their mid players on Zulia.

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We'll see more tho soon.  Gotta see if NC will finally not copy paste KR and give us nerfed version.

 

Im more concern about being unable to find group in the first place. Don't really think my 300-400ms delay can give me the required DPS regardless gear.  Friends are starting to nitpick my gear which add salt to the injury.

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Arcsine   

We're only getting the first 2 bosses with the patch so I think you can get away with post-VT gear (Aransu 6 or better, Awakened Cosmic Soul or better, stage 10 or better VT necklace) for now. If push comes to shove we can farm for the new bracelet to complement learning the 2 bosses (the new bracelet replaces the old one so you can just crux it).

 

I know we'll need Spirit, all raid members tending towards Aransu 9, and maybe even a few clears of the first 2 bosses for accessories by the time we get part 2 of the raid. 

 

The new items from these first 2 bosses are analogous to bosses 2 and 3 of BT respectively so only Earth and Ice builds can get both accessories until part 2 comes out so it's pretty much on those players to be working on upgrading the new accessories a lot more than those that only get one new accessory from part 1. 

First 2 bosses are clearable with a top 6 spread between 250k and 517k DPS although for boss 1 that's cutting it close based on some initial clears from TW. Somewhat works for boss 2 as well but that crossing mechanic messes things up. The last 2 bosses are gonna require a lot more but hopefully NA get some time between raid patches.

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Neog   
1 hour ago, Eckogen said:

I'm surprised not many people share this concern.

I believe the majority of the players know they won't be able to do it regardless if they nerf it or not.

I found this on BNS twitter:

"Raid difficulty is always balanced for each region around that region's current gear levels. Obviously though the intent isn't that everyone is able to clear it Day 1. :)"

So they are aware of it, let's hope they get it right.

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2 hours ago, Eckogen said:

I'm surprised not many people share this concern.

Personally I've known this for a long time now, probably half a year. I knew ever since I first saw footage of the KR version around October/November last year.

 

It was boss 3 - the scorpion, where people burst up to 3 million dps (fire Gunner, shadow dragon SIN) and had 450k dps sustain average (meaning it counts all the time that they run around do mechanics, etc) and only BARELY managed to clear it - the boss had 7.5 billion health and it took them over 11 minutes of crazy dps - they cleared with about 10 seconds left. The first two bosses were better, but still quite bad. 

 

Point is, upon seeing that, I knew what was in store for NA, and that if nerf doesn't happen, then the outrage would be huge. Because this time, it would be the hopelessness of BT release times 100. With BT, people knew eventually, mystic badges and bracelet would come out to significantly boost dps - and those things aren't too hard to get/max out and that those things would enable them to clear, which they did. But now with this, you need ABSOLUTE max gear and new soul, new bracelet,... etc, all are significantly more expensive.

 

But gears are just about half of the issue, the other half is PING - and this is much harder to fix, if not impossible.

 

As a SEA player, and a casual at that, I've since then set my expectation that I will never be able to enter the thing, let alone clear even a boss or two of it. So I've made my peace a long time ago. But then that's just me. What about other max geared players but with not-ideal-ping? What about all other SEA players like me, or BR, etc? I don't think it would be fair to them, and they probably don't think that's fair either - being forever unable to clear content due to where they live.

Edited by Thicc Stoccpot

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3 hours ago, Thicc Stoccpot said:

Personally I've known this for a long time now, probably half a year. I knew ever since I first saw footage of the KR version around October/November last year.

 

It was boss 3 - the scorpion, where people burst up to 3 million dps (fire Gunner, shadow dragon SIN) and had 450k dps sustain average (meaning it counts all the time that they run around do mechanics, etc) and only BARELY managed to clear it - the boss had 7.5 billion health and it took them over 11 minutes of crazy dps - they cleared with about 10 seconds left. The first two bosses were better, but still quite bad. 

 

Point is, upon seeing that, I knew what was in store for NA, and that if nerf doesn't happen, then the outrage would be huge. Because this time, it would be the hopelessness of BT release times 100. With BT, people knew eventually, mystic badges and bracelet would come out to significantly boost dps - and those things aren't too hard to get/max out and that those things would enable them to clear, which they did. But now with this, you need ABSOLUTE max gear and new soul, new bracelet,... etc, all are significantly more expensive.

 

But gears are just about half of the issue, the other half is PING - and this is much harder to fix, if not impossible.

 

As a SEA player, and a casual at that, I've since then set my expectation that I will never be able to enter the thing, let alone clear even a boss or two of it. So I've made my peace a long time ago. But then that's just me. What about other max geared players but with not-ideal-ping? What about all other SEA players like me, or BR, etc? I don't think it would be fair to them, and they probably don't think that's fair either - being forever unable to clear content due to where they live.

I don't know if this would work, but wouldn't a major part of everyone's problems be fixed if all the skills were client-side? I guess all basic skills are client-side, or they just are affected way less by the ping (I don't even know if it's considered client-side, i'm kinda of a layperson on this subject). In the end, what I mean is: Why are all basic skills affected way less by the ping? What about the other skills? It just doesn't make any sense to me.

Edited by CristianoJa

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3 hours ago, Thicc Stoccpot said:

Personally I've known this for a long time now, probably half a year. I knew ever since I first saw footage of the KR version around October/November last year.

 

It was boss 3 - the scorpion, where people burst up to 3 million dps (fire Gunner, shadow dragon SIN) and had 450k dps sustain average (meaning it counts all the time that they run around do mechanics, etc) and only BARELY managed to clear it - the boss had 7.5 billion health and it took them over 11 minutes of crazy dps - they cleared with about 10 seconds left. The first two bosses were better, but still quite bad. 

 

Point is, upon seeing that, I knew what was in store for NA, and that if nerf doesn't happen, then the outrage would be huge. Because this time, it would be the hopelessness of BT release times 100. With BT, people knew eventually, mystic badges and bracelet would come out to significantly boost dps - and those things aren't too hard to get/max out and that those things would enable them to clear, which they did. But now with this, you need ABSOLUTE max gear and new soul, new bracelet,... etc, all are significantly more expensive.

 

But gears are just about half of the issue, the other half is PING - and this is much harder to fix, if not impossible.

 

As a SEA player, and a casual at that, I've since then set my expectation that I will never be able to enter the thing, let alone clear even a boss or two of it. So I've made my peace a long time ago. But then that's just me. What about other max geared players but with not-ideal-ping? What about all other SEA players like me, or BR, etc? I don't think it would be fair to them, and they probably don't think that's fair either - being forever unable to clear content due to where they live.

Im also a SEA player. I both played BNS NA and BNS TW. This is what I'm afraid in BNS NA when new raid dungeons and gears becomes available. The higher the level of gear, the more dps is lost due to ping.

Edited by Jill Denise

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NCsoft and NCwest should calculate the ping and average performance of the general population when it comes to deciding the bosses' HP for NA server, because it has probably the most diverse playerbase, geography wise compared to other regions. And since ping is vital to dps - the damage you can do. it is for certain that NA playerbase has probably the worst average dps performance compared to other regions.

 

Only Chinese players play BnS Chinese (because the main language is Chinese) - maybe some Vietnamese players too but since Vietnam is right next to China, therefore the ping would still be very good. (100 or sub 100ms according to the in-game meter)

 

Same thing with BnS Taiwan, only Taiwanese and maybe Singaporean players and yup, some Vietnamese players play it - all three would have very good ping, (120ms - may need ping tool such as pingzapper or WTFast but hey, the ping would be optimal then so who cares.)

 

Only Koreans play BnS Koreans. Not to mention Korea has literally the fastest internet on earth. So yeah they probably don't even know about a thing such as ping spike.

 

BnS Russian - only Russians play it, maybe some other players in the EU region - but probably very insignificant. To all the Russians which obviously comprise the majority of the population, ping would be optimal so not a problem here it would seem

 

BnS Thailand & Vietnamese - this one, most definitely only Thai & Vietnamese people play respectively, so ping would be optimal again here. Occassionally top Chinese players would come to Vietnamese server to do PvP livestream - they have to use ping tool, but then, yeah they would have the optimal ping to perform.

 

BnS EU, I think most people play at this server would have quite good ping. Best ping would be German players... My point is EU and all other regions above have less diverse and complex population as BnS NA.

 

BnS NA - this server attracts the most players simply because it's NA, therefore ENglish would be the main language - (if you don't know English is the most used language in the world, and I bet there are more people know English than Chinese or Taiwanese or Vietnamese or German or Russian.) You have NA players, Canadian players (these guys have the best ping obviously), SEA players (bad ping 300-400ms), BR players (these guys have bad ping as well), some Chinese, some even from EU, some Africa... I mean the population is all over the place. My main point is, NA players and Canadian players probably don't even make up the majority of the player base of NA server. Thus many would be able to meet the dps requirement of late game content, and among them, especially, the soon to be released TT. The hp pool of the bosses of the raid is simply out of reach for quite literally over 95% of the playerbase at release and this time, without adjustment, would stay unbeatable forever... For bad ping players, there was always hope for BT, there was always hope for VT, but man for the un nerf Kr version of TT, I literally (I use the word literally because I mean it) don't see any hope at all.

 

AT 300ms in game, you can only do at best 60-65% or maybe 70% dps of your maximum potential (fire FM, fire GUN, shadow DES). Some classes can barely break 50% (fire BM, lightning BM, ice SF).

 

I myself am a Vietnamse - meaning SEA player. I came to BnS NA simply because it used English as the main language and yes, I started the game way before BnS thailand and vietnamse came to be, and partly because I didn't know how much influence ping had on my performance. I stayed because I've invested quite a lot of time and effort, and that I have friends here - so basically sunk cost fallacy. I've decided to stay casual a while ago so I don't really care about doing end game. But for those who have invested and still have hope, for them to be bar from doing the content because of where they live... It's quite unfair, isn't it?

Edited by Thicc Stoccpot

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Neog   

There are some interesting facts about BNS and about ping that I have been posting here and even wrote to support (which btw is useless, they do not handle any kind of suggestions there, they will tell you to post on forum - which is also useless since they don't read or care about it).

  • BNS was developed in Korea, the country with the best internet speed in the world and also a very small country (Texas alone is almost 7 times bigger than South Korea), so ping is not an issue the developers had in mind.
  • Due to the size of USA and Canada, depending on your location you will get an ingame ping of 120 - 150 which means that for some classes you will not be getting the best of them. Fire BMs for example can do 8 rmb attacks during the 3 seconds conflagration (after tab) with 100- ping, with 120 - 150 you will get 6 to 7, it might not seem much but that is a 12.5 to 25% less dps.
  • Being from South America I'm ok when they basically say 'this is NA server, you are not welcome here', but if that's the case why do we have portuguese translation and options to buy NCoins both from Brazil and Latam? 
  • Players from Asia somehow have options to play with low ping, I know about the language barrier and etc, I'm not sure if there are ways to translate the client nowadays, I remember when the game was only in Korea there was a way to play it in English, also I don't know if that is against the rules or not. Players from South America, in the other hand, have no option, NA servers are chosen not only because of English but also because it is the closest (and it is very very far).
  • From what I've seen, the skill's cooldown start counting not from the moment they are used on the client but when they are registered on the server, so, for example, if your skill's cooldown is 30 seconds and your ping is 300ms, the cooldown will actually be 30.6 seconds (0.3 to send + 0.3 to receive), that is totally fine for skills with a longer cooldown, but some skills have almost 0 delay (basically just the animation time as delay) and when you add 0.6 seconds to them they become very slow. And what amazes me is that we have a fix already implemented on BNS but they work only for basic attacks, why not implement it for all skills that have very short delays?

Since nothing will change regarding ping, my suggestion is just wait for the others to learn and complete the latest raids while you save up some gold, then you buy a carry run, get everything you need and so you will be able to try the raid itself.

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There's still hope though, and that's the in-game macro mode:

 

 

As you can see, in-game macro mode allows this gunner to perform much better. I guess it's because with the in-game macro, it's the game that executes the commands for the player, whereas with 3rd party macro or manual input, it's gonna be commands from those sources and not the game itself - thus the commands contain delay.

 

It's a good bet based on the footage above, at least for fire gunner that is. So keep your hope up but prepare your butt. 

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