let me point this mammoth in the room... (pvp and paywall)

[poisonedOcean]

eSport.

NCSoft is trying to push this game as a fair and accessible FREE 2 PLAY eSport for some time now. I always liked this game, spent some time and money on it, just for fun, so I really liked the idea... but come on. Let's be honest. How can someone think of having the slightest chance against a whale? How long would take to level a char to HM 20? *or how much magiccard swipes?*

First things first.... Is it even possible to PvP in this whale infested waters? These aren't rhetorical questions, I'm actually willing to know the opinion of more seasoned players.  

There's no fun left for people not able nor willing to shake the wallet every month. Just do the math... try calculate the amount of time and material needed for some high end gear. We're hitting the hundred of thousands in gold, and billions in XP charms.

 

Do somebody think that this game  will survive through 2018? cuz I really would like it does.

[Arcsine]

Someone needs to brush up on the difference between Arena PvP (stats normalized, HM level doesn't really make much of a difference as HM skills do, used for every e-sports tournament) and Battleground PvP (gear dependent).

[SalemK]

In arena gear and hm level doesn't matter. It's about skill, though some classes perform a lot better with hm skills.. To answer your other question, I believe that this game will still be alive through and past 2018 as it still has a strong base of players that support the game and still spend money to keep it going. Though I suspect they will definitely lose more players with the release of other games that come out this year (I'm specifically waiting for bless online to come and moonlight blade) but that also depends on how well the others will do when they are released.

[Stacey Banks]

I think BnS is still quite unique and has it's niche and will be around for some time. I agree that BGs are cancer and no fun for anyone, unwilling to invest lots of cash into their character, but I guess all those upcoming games will have similar features.

[ARC-1276]

Who the Hell does Arena PVP anymore? Intense server lag along with this joke of a balancing system on top of wintrading and smurfs has completely killed Arena.

 

On top of that, there is a HUGE paywall to even have a fighting chance in 6v6. Like, HUGE! New players won't be able to get the gear unless they clock in weeks upon weeks of doing nothing but 6v6 and PVE, putting in at least 8 or something hours just to get through 3 stages.

 

May I please remind you what we're doing here: WE ARE PLAYING A VIDEO GAME. Why does a VIDEO GAME require more commitment than my college?

[RavTH]

I did 6v6 and we lost then this guy on my team whispered me and this turned into an interesting conversation...

then I said "sorry for spending money on food instead of gear :("

then I looked him up and as you can see he's a good pvper kappa.

 

6v6 is for people like that KFM that spends $$$$ on gear to feel like they can pvp, but in reality they can't.

 

can't wait for 6v6 arena stats, it will happen, the amount of toxicity 6v6 is making is absurd.

 

[Sheral]

the hm in 6v6 has nothing to do, is who has enough money to buy the best equipment, and seen people entering the 6v6 that I had not seen in my life in hm 10 full equipment. Can not be against the mega whale, without going further I was in a game where a destro I filled my whisper chat with toxicity saying it was useless was the only one with dragon, in my team the destroyer had acendant, and as always happens the enemy team had 3 dragon another was a mega whale with dragon +9 full equipment, we did not have even the slightest chance of hitting hit, you just touched ground and you were dead, it's nice the blade and soul combat system but It hurts that the VT badge unbalances the whole game.

[Statler]

Arena:

Well Arena seems to be dead. in the last  6-8 month i havent seen any diamon or even platin players on my server writing in chat. Even gold player are very rare the last time.

First point, Arena is full of alts. new players nearly have no chance cause people doing arena with 2,3, or more chars to get the weekly and season rewards.

Second point are lags, bugs and bad ballance. When i go to arena the game starts, screen tunrs black, screen turns bright and im already in an airkombo and half dead. Even i have a quite good connection and PC. So why i should bother wit arena when i cant even contribute to a fight due to those ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ing lags?

 

6vs6 Battleground.

There are many problems with battleground.

- you dont need skill anymore, you need good gear and a better credit card. Just oneshot your opponent and you are fine.

- Elemental Damage, defence and crit defence are pretty useless agains elemental damage. 

- PVE-Gear in PVP

Even Ascendent have some nice effects in PVP, its pretty useless when someone with Raven or Aranasu and VT Bade will simply oneshot you. So why bother upgrading PVP weapon. 

Ill guess no one at NC-Soft thought about the impact of PVE gear in PVP. I saw lot of Sins with MSP soulshields oneshooting people with their bomb.

The Soulbadge for most classes are simply OP. It should be disabled on battleground, but NC-Soft thought it would be nice to add penetration of parry and defence.  What the hell?

Why the hell they increas damage in PVP so extreamly? when i want to onehit other i go and play counterstrike, Call Of Duty or Battlefield and evewn here you need at least 2 or 3 hits to kill yor opponent, except for a headshot as sniper.

Back in the old days, when Legy stage 6 was max gear you could even run Battleground with your HM weapon and had a good chance to win with some skill.

Most saddest thing, most of those whales with max gear are those who screew up mechs in even the easiest dungeons and would be dead in seconds in arena without their gear.

Therefore the Blackram supply chain Event was funny, seeing HM 16+ with full gear the first to be dead ^^

 

vor 1 Stunde schrieb RavTH:

can't wait for 6v6 arena stats, it will happen, the amount of toxicity 6v6 is making is absurd.

Dream on ;) this will never happend or do you realy think, NC-Soft will take away the playground for whales? The wont cash anymore and they would cry cause everyone with a little bit of skill would kill them ;)

 

 

 

 

[Sheral]

19 minutes ago, Skyhaven said:

Not much u can do really, the whole point of 6v6 is to mainly see who has better gear, i mean even now good geared gunners can pop u in 1 combo or skill, if u have dont have decent gear and some classes are more stronger in certain pvp areas like 6v6. 

Eg. KFM with infinite dodge after 3 stacks of agility, i mean if u have 5 ppl hitting him and everything comes up as "evade" "evade", what can u do.

 

If u arent even geared properly, a destro in 6v6 culd pop u with his VT badge and e alone, just roars in rage and explodes and kills u without even touching u. 

 

Arena u cant do much, some stats although normalized are still a bit unbalanced, squishy classes shuld have more hp than tankier melee classes, like classes which rely on crit, have their crit nerfed after normalizing, ugh, its like going back to lvl 40 again before u had any gear at all. People say its skills, but it doesnt help that these such classes which perform better after stat normalization than others and builds which rely on crit, are nerfed hard to the point where they cant even do much dmg. Arena pretty much is now who has more CC, if u have more cc u have more options. Gunner has 2 cc lels, destro has like 4-5, kfm has like 4-5, get the picture? after 2 years this game has been out not much has changed, so i doubt they will even change anything in the future.

Its like pressing 2 for stun and seeing the enemy somehow get a "evade", and ur like wtf how did my stun miss. 

you were right were very few kfm that e seen in 6v6 that could exploit the kfm's potency both in agility as in blocking and stun, the majority only focuses on doing full piercing, and they die very fast. Before they put dragon weapon I had a team of acendant and the kfm was with galaxy +12 I totally evaded everything and could block all the skills of cc that boy was very good, in the way that I played bg I only saw 3 kfm with that level very good skill the rest just focuses on throwing the aoe fire of the vt badge nothing more. But in that aspect if you keep hitting a kfm basics, destro, bd, bm are going to be stronger, you just have to go trying to put them cc that is very difficult indeed, that goes in the experience they have facing each class, but 6v6 has become predictable just use the skill of the vt badge and you already know that they will be so that you can counteract them.

[Buzzirk]

You spelled it wrong. It's FREE 2 PAY.

[Syphin]

The longer the game lives, the bigger the divide gets in 6 VS 6 and the less your average player wants to participate in something so devoid of fun. 

 

 

[NorbertTheOpinionated]

You realize the official name of the place is Beluga Lagoon, and there are LITERALLY whales everywhere in it right? The gaming industry is turning to garbage because the older generation doesn't play video games, but the younger generation that grew up on them is now old enough to have money, and the companies want it, AND the players are willing to give it up for an advantage. The companies are smart enough to sell power because many companies don't care about fairness. They care about money. At the end of the day, EVERY for profit company's function is not to do whatever that company does, but rather to maximize profits because if the company ever runs out of money, it dies. Companies do all kinds of things, but their function is to make money. Money is like a company's blood.

 

Paying to win is kind of like playing chess, but being able to pay money to have your pawns start as queens. It disgusts me, but they WANT it to be frustrating. They want you salty, and they want other players to put pressure on you. It is all insidiously psychologically designed. As long as there are people who are willing to pay to have an advantage (and there always will be), here is your future of players gaming:

 

 

 

Consider this: When Blade and Soul holds up PVP to the world officially on Twitch, and says, "Look at this! This is Blade and Soul pvp!" Do they include open world pvp? No. Do they include 6v6 pvp with some whale carrying his team while single handedly obliterating the enemy team because he swiped his credit card for more money than the biggest whale on the losing team? No. What do they show to the world for pvp when they want to be proud of it? They show 1v1 and 3v3 EQUALIZED pvp because they KNOW the other stuff is BS. It is there to make money, and it is there for people who want that ridiculous garbage, but it is a trap. Just don't do it.

 

If you want to pvp, just do 1v1 equalized. That way if you lose, you can't blame your team either. That is what B&S holds up as official anyway. You think Virus is in the world tournaments because he is good at 1v1 equalized or because of his performance in 6v6?

 

Also, since you can 1v1 equalized without pvp gear, and they can't force you to pvp in open world or non equalized unless you sign up for it, the only gear advancement that matters is for pve gear. If you want to pvp, just get a character to 55, and go have fun in 1v1 equalized. You don't need pvp gear.

[Crahzi]

A lot of people here(bns in general not just this topic) have not played many other mmos it seems. Because gear based p2w pvp is just how mmo pvp is. You want a fair competitive player vs player experience? Go play a fps or a fighting game not a mmo. In fact bns is one of the very very few mmo's with a equalized stats pvp mode. The only other one I can think of right now is gw2.

[RavTH]

On 06/04/2018 at 7:10 PM, NorbertTheOpinionated said:

 

 

 

 

I like this.

[poisonedOcean]

On 05/04/2018 at 5:24 PM, ARC-1276 said:

May I please remind you what we're doing here: WE ARE PLAYING A VIDEO GAME. Why does a VIDEO GAME require more commitment than my college?

Funny that you pointed that... I work on a nuclear submarine, and BnS still require more commitment than my work.
needless to say I still didnt get my aransu weapon

[poisonedOcean]

I believe in good changes. I have strong hopes that staff is listening the community and this kind of topic somehow reach their appreciation.
In the past, some Schopenhauer-readers said that "you should stahp whynin'!!!1! there will never be a Lyn gunner! They won't mod the game for you"

And now here they are.

All we can do is hope that the company don't let the game become an exclusive luxury of some dozen high-rollers payers... and find a way of making money without ignoring the real average players.

[Statler]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb poisonedOcean:

I believe in good changes. I have strong hopes that staff is hearing the community and this kind of topic somehow reach their appreciation.

Im very sad to dissapoint you Sir/ Mam, but  the community is now complaining since ~2 years about the bad matchmaking in 6vs6 and nothing happend jet. So there wont be any changes in future. NC -Soft gibing a ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ about what player want for 6vs6. Did you check your fraction chat lately? How many gold Players have you seen? how many platin or diamond?

1.5 years ago nearly every 2nd player was at least gold either in 1vs1, 3vs3 or 6vs6 and now?

A good sign that more and more people quit playing PVP.

In 6vs6 i havent seen platin / diamond for ages. there are only a few left in platin ranking.

In 1vs1 and 3vs3 there are a few more platin and sometimes even diamond, but these are mostly all alt chars of one and the same person since NC-Soft alow player to rank up with multiple chars of same class and even reward them at the end of the season. 

 

So as i said, im sad to have to dissapoint you, but since nothing changed in the past 2 years, why should they now change anything? As long as people pay for trove and other things everything is fine for NC-Soft, even pvp continue dieing they simply give a ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ about it

[MassiveEgo]

On 4/6/2018 at 7:12 PM, Syphin said:

The longer the game lives, the bigger the divide gets in 6 VS 6 and the less your average player wants to participate in something so devoid of fun. 

Noone ever said all content is all inclusive. You don't see undergeared people in the top 3-4 dungeons. Same with PvP arenas.

This is a problem that NCSoft never addressed. In order to be topped up both pvp and pve gear paths, you need either a lot of time or a lot of money (which is also a representation of time in it's own accord).

And considering that they are marketing this as a GAME, they should also adjust it in a way that doesn't allow certain people to advance faster through methods that aren't connected to the gameplay. That way even if the content has a gear threshold, something that isn't a problem in PvE since the enemies are all NPCs and don't change in time, it wouldn't be that discriminatory (this word... yuck).

[Arohk]

PvP gear is just too unobtainable,

You must run every dungeon 100 times to be able to buy the basic items and then spend an even bigger fortune to upgrade it.

 

You can not buy PvP Soul Shield because it is locked behind an achievement.

 

I don't know, i wanted to try pvp for a while now but all i got so far is Ascendant weapon 4 and the basic pvp neck(0 upgrades) , i just can not afford to push it.

Every time i go into a battleground there are people HM 20 who simple onehit everyone, take like no damage from my attacks. it just feels so pointless to even try.

[RagingPhenix]

the idea of PVP gear just sucks, needing 2 separate sets of equipment for PvE and PvP. Honestly they should of just made all gear have PvE AND PvP stats since launch.
Unfortunately doing that now would be a compensation nightmare.

[dklm]

Yes, when I thought this game would be fair, it apparently wasn't.  Pvp is the same too.  You get put into games were everyone but you is geared with all pvp accessories and there is no one in battlegrounds without this.  When you think you can enter battlegrounds for a good time, think not.  It's a bad idea.  You'll only have bad experiences and misery.

 

Already people are ready to drop out of the group once they inspect everyone's F2 profile.  

[MassiveEgo]

10 hours ago, RagingPhenix said:

the idea of PVP gear just sucks, needing 2 separate sets of equipment for PvE and PvP. Honestly they should of just made all gear have PvE AND PvP stats since launch.
Unfortunately doing that now would be a compensation nightmare.

Not really. It's super easy to fix actually. Just make next gear tier in line a combined one. In other words, you can progress to "Ultramegasuperweapon" from either "Megasuperpveweapon" or "Megasuperpvpweapon". No need for compensation.

[RagingPhenix]

15 hours ago, MassiveEgo said:

Not really. It's super easy to fix actually. Just make next gear tier in line a combined one. In other words, you can progress to "Ultramegasuperweapon" from either "Megasuperpveweapon" or "Megasuperpvpweapon". No need for compensation.

Still I know people who have both... They aren't gonna be impressed

[Statler]

Well the PVP-Weapon is quite easy to get and even to upgrade when you regulary do battleground. So the Weapon itself is not the problem.

The Problem are the soulshields. They are way to expensive to obtain and locked behind archivment. Even a maxed out Dragonstorm Weapon and PVP Accessouris are prety useless without any defence the PVP Shoulshilds offer. Furthermore even pvp Soulshields only give you a very minimal chance to survive a fight against people with VT-Badge.

To make PVP more interesting again the PVP Soulshields should be easy to get. Making PVP-Soulshields harder to obtain, then to max out the PVP-Weapon is the wrong way imho. 

Players Damage need to be reduced drasitcaly. PVE Elements and procs, like weaponproggs of Raven / Aransu have to be removed from PVP same as the VT-Badge.

This would make PVP again more interesting, cause you have to fight to win not simply oneshot everything.

 

But this will stay a dream and will never happens, cause all those whales would go enrage because they cant oneshot anything anymore and even less geared player with skill can kill them. And thats what NC-Soft is afraid off cause it would mean a loose of money...

 

[ARC-1276]

Honestly though, no form of PVP is legitiment. All the top players aren't there purely because of skill, but because of the immense learning curve, the reliance on ping, and because of class imbalances. Has anyone else noticed that only the same 5~3 classes are being played in our region's Esports?

 

Literally every team has a WL, a Sin, and either a Des or BD. I think the pros would be lying if they told us that the state of the game's balancing isn't a joke at the very best.

 

But of course, the server side lag and DCs will ensure that any player who actually devoted time to learning the ridiculous mechanics of the game will never be able to hold on to their ranking, forcing them down a spiral of being deranked by lesser players, that turns into a toxic Hellhole and convinces them to leave the game because the server was lagging too much for them to even perform their 100-0s without any hiccups. Players who could have ended up in our Esports tournaments had they not been discouraged by how ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ poor the servers are.