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pikapikapika

Worst Trove Ever

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Greetings,

 

We have taken the liberty and merged multiple threads on this topic for visibility and to make the collection of feedback easier for us.

 

Thank you!

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On 25/03/2018 at 4:32 PM, Skyhaven said:

No, they didnt force u to. But at the end of the day, you and I both know to keep up with everyone else and the latest content, you have to get keys to get some items to boost your progression.

- You choose to want to keep up with the spenders / lucky trovers. You didn't have to, but you choose to. You can argue that you didn't have a choice in needing to keep up with them because you want to stay competitive (since gear does play a role in pvp), but again, you choose to be competitive. You can argue that you didn't have a choice because you play games to be competitive, again, you choose that's your mode of fun. You can keep arguing, but in the end, it was all your choice. Like someone pointed out already, you can choose not to, but you didn't, you choose TO. Because things didn't turn out the way you wanted it to be, you've made your choice, live with it.

- With that said, I do feel that there's a fundamental flaw in the way BnS's progression system is setup. Namely, spending money to progress is WAY too efficient compared to spending time to progress. This gives people the illusion that they NEED to spend money to progress, which is not true.

11 hours ago, Fieryfly said:

I must laugh, 1000 keys.. meh nothing.. except you did get something on each pull.. so thank you for supporting my game and any future development costs.. maybe you wont spend so much next time.. or maybe you will spend more this trove. and whine less.. either way thank you for supporting my game

Last time I checked, this is called Blade and Soul, not Fieryfly's game. No body would support your game or fund any future development as it is unknown and google search returns no results. What they support is Blade and Soul. This ain't your game.

8 hours ago, Maxsly said:

Rng is ok, but in 600 keys its not only rng.. I think

- Actually, yes, it's only RNG. A low percentage chance yes, but definitely RNG. If you think you are being targeted or NC is ripping you off, no, it's not worth the time and effort to target you or to rip you off specifically, it's RNG.

- The only thing here that NC is not doing, which in my opinion that they should, is to list the entire probability map. And that's not just the percentage chance that you can get an item, but exactly how the system decides when does a crit happen, when it happens, what level of crit, and after it decides what level of crit it is, how does it decide what items to list. In many casino games, you can calculate your probability of winning. In here you can't. As someone pointed out already, this is more like a slot machine, but even then you have a semi good idea of your odds of winning, even if you don't know the inner working of the machine. NC can and should be more transparent with their players or better yet, design micro-transactions that aren't slot machines, people pay for things and they get exactly what they want. And if breaking the system is a concern (like selling gilded gems), then don't sell them.

- Wanting to change the system is fine, but crying about RNG, or decisions that you choose to make, isn't going to help any.

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Buzzirk   

The real reason Treasher Trove is bad is because people keep buying keys. 

 

The Saberfang sale at least capped your investment.  So for about $20 you could get the outfit.  That's competitive with a permanent outfit in Vindictus when I played that.  When people stop spending money on RNG and start spending money on non-RNG or not-quite-RNG stuff, they will listen.

Edited by Buzzirk

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I don't mind the RNG too much, but when boxes crit, at least make the crit worth something, most of them contained almost useless stuff.

I usually just went with the stash box every time to roll for more money, but gem crits or PTS crits or Oil crits are always disappointingly low... I was hoping to see a gilded gem crit, but the rates this time around is pretty damn bad...

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Fieryfly   
4 hours ago, Racingwind said:

Last time I checked, this is called Blade and Soul, not Fieryfly's game. No body would support your game or fund any future development as it is unknown and google search returns no results. What they support is Blade and Soul. This ain't your game.

LOL what.."My game" is a figurative word.. look up what figurative means..  then look up metaphoric.. 

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2 minutes ago, Fieryfly said:

LOL what.."My game" is a figurative word.. look up what figurative means..  then look up metaphoric.. 

Of course. When speaking in person, figurative / metaphoric speech is easier to understand, since tones are involved. In a post, there isn't such a tone, and one can choose to read it either literal, or figurative / metaphoric. I choose to always read things literal as that way I can be objective, and not subjective. Figurative / metaphoric is open to my own take on what it could mean", unless, of course, it's made apparent elsewhere in their comments that they are being such.

But fair enough, you meant "thanks for supporting the game that I play".

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Fieryfly   
40 minutes ago, Buzzirk said:

The Saberfang sale at least capped your investment.  So for about $20 you could get the outfit.  That's competitive with a permanent outfit in Vindictus when I played that.  When people stop spending money on RNG and start spending money on non-RNG or not-quite-RNG stuff, they will listen.

Trove is a hugely successful marketing tool NCSoft uses to generate money. Last year NCSoft generated one third of a billion USD. Its successful because people are generally lazy. They want quick rewards they do not want to grind out the endless dungeons or raids. The sad thing when they become so powerful, the game play becomes so boring they quit the game, only to return when a new patch or trove appears.. This type of on and off is like a binge drinker, or an addiction to heroin. This sort of game addiction has been discussed as major reasons and concerns in game regulation. Gaming companies targeting the feeble minded, the mentally ill with these  flashy outfits, the cosmetics.. shiny. 

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Fufia   
12 hours ago, Shunaia said:

Even though everyone will parrot eachother with the whole "RNG is RNG" thing, the more keys you open, the "more likely" you will get what you're gambling for. Unfortunately, after using 610 keys, it just MIGHT have been key #611 that would've gotten you exactly what you wanted. That's the thing with gambling and RNG - you'll just never know what's next, unless you make your next roll.

However, keep in mind that with RNG in an online video game that thrives on real life money, we are only trusting the guys who run this game to NOT screw us with shady crap disguised as RNG. Honestly, we all think about it, so why not talk about it? There's nothing keeping such companies from just CLAIMING there's an RNG system in place when it can be flipped on and off with a simple setting in admin options or just not exist, entirely. An RNG system could be put into place for the minor items like sacred crystals or experience charms, for instance, while the big expensive/rare items could be contingent upon how much you swiped your card in the game over the past week or so.

I'm NOT saying this IS what's going on, but anyone who feels like it's 100% impossible to program things to run this way is naive.

Just with my limited programming knowledge, I can do such things, so why couldn't people who do this for a living NOT...?

Anyway, don't feel bad when it comes to "sucky rng", because it happens to the best of us and the worst of us.

Sometimes, just that ONE more key COULD be your lottery jackpot, but that's also what gambling addicts know for themselves. Don't be like me - spend your money on things that are more worthwhile. lol

someone hit the right spot!

Is just me that same times i stay months without gaining 100g and when they drop you get in almost all your alts. RNG is RNG ofc of course it is.

99% sure that NCS turn on and off the switch all the time

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1 hour ago, Skyhaven said:

Its always those people who got lucky once in a  while and say its rng downvoting others, mate if u played long enuff in this game, u can see the "BNS RNG SYSTEM" is clearly biased in this game and there are many things wrong with this system. I hate to be a downer but sum1 has to make these people saying its RNG realise their mistakes.

I played since beta, I did every trove, I limit myself every trove if I hit 500 keys, I stop, doesn't matter if I get what I wanted or not. Because it is gambling, it is a slot machine, it is RNG. Do I think it's good to have such a slot machine / RNG transaction? No, but do I complain about it? No, because I see it for what it really is, RNG. There is no mistake about this, it is RNG. Now someone argued that the big spenders gets better RNG over small spenders, that could be true. But that still does not change the fact that it's RNG. If you need to pay a certain amount before being able to unlock certain rewards, now that is a malicious practice and ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ storm will happen. But we have no way of proving that do we? Not unless we get a clear list of the probability map. Then we can calculate each item's probability, and then we can gather data from all the trovers to see if NC really is being honest, that RNG is RNG, or if NC is being malicious and we can all sue NC for thousands of dollars.

So there is no point in whining about you didn't get what you wanted and demands a compensation because it's RNG, until proven otherwise. If you really want to address the core underlying issue, demand for the probability map and band together to figure out if you truly are being cheated.

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swpz   

150 keys:

 

1 octagonal gem

1 heptagonal gem (took sacred oils instead)

2 hex elemental gems

A lot of PTS

A lot of Emp stones

More pets than I can count

More materials than I can count (I got Raven 3-6 and Ascendant 6-8/9)

All outfits

Started with 1800 gold, still have 1800 gold

 

I've usually gotten what I wanted (within reason so I'd never expect to get a gilded gem or anything) within 100 keys or so.

 

The octagonal gem was painful though, 4 PTS, 6 oils, 10 Emp stones or 1 octagonal gem.

 

 

Edited by swpz

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Skynemis   

I just watch trove openings before I chose to spend any money. I won't be trying this season because from what I saw the returns are terrible. 

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The problem is obviously knowing that it is a slot machine yet expect to find specific things of it.  Remember that given the nature of RNG.. there is no real indication on when or how many keys required that can get you what you want.  you can open one key and get what you want... while sometime you open 1000 and none of what you want drop.  Same as RNG boxes. can only hope.  Can get crit but not always the crit you want.

 

Just like playing Russian roulette... one will eventually die but there is no way to tell when the chamber that contain bullet would get picked on.

 

What you can really do is just take what you need and be grateful that the trove give you at least a lead in terms of crafting or upgrades material stocks.

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2 hours ago, Skyhaven said:

The blind will always be leading the blind, the fact that you still think its a fair rng in BNS already shows u dont really understand this game very well. Its like rolling a dice and expecting a 5 or a 6  at least once in 10 rolls, which shuld 100% possible, in this game however, even 0 times for them out of 10 rolls, is "dropping as intended" hence the problem here.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probability

 

Read it. Understand it. You can throw a dice 400,000 times in a row and have it never land on 5 or 6. The probability for each throw to land on 5 or 6 is exactly 2/6, or 33,33%. The amount of times you have thrown in the past does not weight into the probability of the next throw landing on the number you want it to. The chance never changes from 33.33%. Thus everything you have written in this topic is false. What you are talking about is conditional probability where your past rolls affect your future rolls. That is not true RNG but pseudo-RNG and that is clearly not how trove or dungeon drops in BnS work. How could they? It would be impossible to have the game remember your and your party members every drop from the past to determine your future chances of dropping an item.

Edited by MrBubbles

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9 hours ago, Skyhaven said:

The blind will always be leading the blind, the fact that you still think its a fair rng in BNS already shows u dont really understand this game very well. Its like rolling a dice and expecting a 5 or a 6  at least once in 10 rolls, which shuld 100% possible, in this game however, even 0 times for them out of 10 rolls, is "dropping as intended" hence the problem here. After playing for over 2 years, u shuld already notice this. Its like that time when u dont need the lucent neck from lair, and u get it all the time. It cant be rng when it doesnt follow probability. Yet when u need it to upgrade oath neck, u cant get it even as often for some reason. You have to realise that crits are always the same, within the same 100 keys. You will continuously get around the same stuff, but the fact is that if u can't get what u want in 1000 keys, which is around $500, is a bit bullshit in any sort of game and u can't deny that. All of u continuously say its rng, yet clearly has been proven to not follow normal probability ratios. You got lucky in 100 keys? ok thats good for u, but stop biting at other people when they have problems with the rng. U and I both know BNS rng isn't exactly the most fair thing but to have this problem such as no spa day costume in 500 keys when its a common roll in trove, is pretty substantial. 

U bite and bite at others saying its rng, we dont care, there are clearly issues when things like the aforementioned problem occur to some people. How would u feel if u spent 500 keys and saw everyone else getting common items like spa day multiple times in less than 100, while u couldnt even get it once in 500. Understand the problem now? Ur russian roulette example is stupid, its a guaranteed 1 in 6 if u do it correctly, you know ur chances, it has been pre-ordained and this clearly isnt what trove is doing at the moment, people are having super bad luck for some of the items even when spending more than others. Sure u get upgrade mats, but people still spent $$$ to get those mats because there was nothing better and the price of mats also inflated in the game even for simple basic mats like orbs and moonstones.

 

There are no such a thing as "FAIR RNG" Did you ever learn statistics or even have idea of randomness ?  Remember that in this Big RNG dice, same things can get selected twice or more.  What is so difficult for you to understand that ? Knowing how many percent probability is NOT ENOUGH as it DOESNT TELL YOU, WHEN you will get the roll you WANT.

 

You can purchase Billions of Keys But remember that There will always be Probability of getting same Roll TWICE or MORE. 

 

There is no such thing as "Normal ratio" Hell no one ever know what normal ratio for this game anyway nor it ever stated. 

 

What i learned after 2 ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ING YEARS of being F2P and playing is not to bother or complain with this BS nor spending U$ 500 in it and actually  GRATEFUL on what the ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ing RNG gave me.  Expecting RNG to give what you want with keys as your tribute is just a futile exercise. If you want to look for SPECIFIC things..either ASK NC OR wait until it's on F10 shop instead of gambling with RNG. 

 

The only RNG i would ever complain is if they put RNG in weapon upgrades which a plain dumb and progress hindering.

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