raiking

Why nerf Gunners?

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raiking   

why nerf Gunners? they only have damage as their good point. If it was not for the damage, no one would play it, since it has nothing else. Now, they want to take away from them their dps. Lightning sin will definetely pass gunners; Summoners might also pass it. I need a thorough explanation to this nerf, better not be because players complained about the dps, or i might just insult the whole bns player community. a 10 percent dps nerf is huge on gunners. I do agree that they are too op in 6v6, but that is no reason to nerf it, since those who know how to play their class can easily kill gunners, for they suck in pvp. I wish the nerf would only apply to 6v6.

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Gunners have alpha call, that's their other good point. Alpha call is good for resetting SB and BB. but most gunners don't do it, which sucks. Guess they learn once they get 1.1+ AP or higher, because I've seen even a 1,050 AP gunner not do it.

 

Gunners can do too extreme of damage bursts and snatch threat from a tank, which for lower geared parties can end up being really bad. 

Edited by KiraKamelia

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Tbh I have no problem with gunners at all in pve, more dps= faster kill that benefits the whole party. The only problem is 6v6 and I guess some complain about them in ssp too but a fix for 6v6 would have been simple if they just nerfed classes in 6v6. As far as arena pvp goes they suck so its always an easy kill for me :HajoonLaugh: atleast against most gunners.

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Gennady   
21 minutes ago, ClassicMan said:

if they just nerfed classes in 6v6

They should make skills effects different against mobs and against players. This way it would be possible to balance pvp and pve separately. But they either don't want or have severe technical difficulties.

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raiking   
23 minutes ago, ClassicMan said:

Tbh I have no problem with gunners at all in pve, more dps= faster kill that benefits the whole party. The only problem is 6v6 and I guess some complain about them in ssp too but a fix for 6v6 would have been simple if they just nerfed classes in 6v6. As far as arena pvp goes they suck so its always an easy kill for me :HajoonLaugh: atleast against most gunners.

I agree. It is better if they only nerf gunner in 6v6. 

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I'd wait and see how the changes go... after all, some skills are being changed, but not all negatively...

 

Also, other changes are being added that might help other classes. Just wait and see how it goes.

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Kryptone   

"Why nerf gunners?"

Because they have:

Highest Burst

Highest DPS

Highest Mobility

Broken in 6v6

Way too many iFrame spam in a row

Alpha Call

Extremely Easy to Play

No focus issue throughout level 1 to level 55 HM25.

 

This game don't revolve around gunners.

All classes must be equally viable. 

Having one class superior in almost every terms compared to other class is a bad design.

Edited by Kryptone

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Ludicium   
25 minutes ago, Kryptone said:

"Why nerf gunners?"

Because they have:

Highest Burst

Highest DPS

Highest Mobility

Broken in 6v6

Way too many iFrame spam in a row

Alpha Call

Extremely Easy to Play

No focus issue throughout level 1 to level 55 HM25.

 

This game don't revolve around gunners.

All classes must be equally viable. 

Having one class superior in almost every terms compared to other class is a bad design.

If all classes were created to be equal in terms of what they could do (ie. High DPS, high burst, high mobility, etc.), then there wouldn't be such things as "classes" as every class would have "high DPS", "high burst" and so on/"be equal".

 

Gunslingers were designed to have high DPS, high burst, etc. 

Just as for example, Summoners were designed to be a versatile/jack-of-all trade class.

 

Just by simply googling the classes and reading the wiki, you'll be able to see what the classes designed to do.

 

 

 

However, with that being said, to answer OP's question, I guess gunslinger was simply too strong in their eyes and needed a small nerf.

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raiking   

 

37 minutes ago, Kryptone said:

"Why nerf gunners?"

Because they have:

Highest Burst

Highest DPS

Highest Mobility

Broken in 6v6

Way too many iFrame spam in a row

Alpha Call

Extremely Easy to Play

No focus issue throughout level 1 to level 55 HM25.

 

This game don't revolve around gunners.

All classes must be equally viable. 

Having one class superior in almost every terms compared to other class is a bad design.

I firmly disagree. Gunner does not have the Highest Mobility, summoners do. Gunner was created for pure dps, so obviously they should have the highest dps in game (It is their only job). Look at other classes and their abilities then you will understand that gunner only provides two things to a pt, Alpha Call and DPS. If they nerf gunner`s dps, what was the point of creating the class? A 10 percent dps nerf is hard on gunners since other classes like lightning sin will definetely pass them. Gunner is only superior in dps, nothing else. They should only nerf it in 6v6, since being able to kill an entire party alone is too op.

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raiking   
2 minutes ago, Ludicium said:

If all classes were created to be equal in terms of what they could do (ie. High DPS, high burst, high mobility, etc.), then there wouldn't be such things as "classes" as every class would have "high DPS", "high burst" and so on/"be equal".

 

Gunslingers were designed to have high DPS, high burst, etc. 

Just as for example, Summoners were designed to be a versatile/jack-of-all trade class.

 

Just by simply googling the classes and reading the wiki, you'll be able to see what the classes designed to do.

 

 

 

However, with that being said, to answer OP's question, I guess gunslinger was simply too strong in their eyes and needed a small nerf.

I agree. The class should keep its dps, it is their only good point.

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Windy   
55 minutes ago, Kryptone said:

"Why nerf gunners?"

Because they have:

Highest Burst

Highest DPS

Highest Mobility

Broken in 6v6

Way too many iFrame spam in a row

Alpha Call

Extremely Easy to Play

No focus issue throughout level 1 to level 55 HM25.

 

This game don't revolve around gunners.

All classes must be equally viable. 

Having one class superior in almost every terms compared to other class is a bad design.

This sums entirely my oppinion,I couldn't say it more clear or better! Thanks .

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raiking   
1 minute ago, Windy said:

This sums entirely my opinion,I couldn't say it more clear or better! Thanks .

Take the time to go through all of the classes. Look at their roles, their buffs, their abilities, iframes, and more than anything else, ask around in game why people want gunners in their parties. The only answer you will hear is high dps. Now they want to nerf that too, and you think that its fair? They should only nerf it in 6v6, not in pve.

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Brunark   
1 hour ago, raiking said:

 

I firmly disagree. Gunner does not have the Highest Mobility, summoners do. Gunner was created for pure dps, so obviously they should have the highest dps in game (It is their only job). Look at other classes and their abilities then you will understand that gunner only provides two things to a pt, Alpha Call and DPS. If they nerf gunner`s dps, what was the point of creating the class? A 10 percent dps nerf is hard on gunners since other classes like lightning sin will definetely pass them. Gunner is only superior in dps, nothing else. They should only nerf it in 6v6, since being able to kill an entire party alone is too op.

I stopped reading anything else you said after you said summoners have highest mobility. I've yet to see any summoners do far mark in HH, which a "high mobility" class is required for. From what I asked summoner friends, they said summoners don't have enough mobility to far mark.

 

Going to leave my 2 cents. They're aiming now in KR to look at balancing classes. As is, gunner (at least fire gunner) = low risk & low effort class to play for high reward with dps. They have plenty of mobility and i-frame tools as well. Gunner needs effort as well in gearing to get the same DPS as higher geared other classes. Even in 6v6, gunners don't even need to invest in PVP SSs or weapons to perform extremely well. A lot of high performing gunners simply go in with a VT8 PVE SS set and Raven/Aransu and can nuke teams, whereas most other classes need to invest in a whole new set of PVP SSs and Ascendant/Dragon Forge.

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raiking   
28 minutes ago, Brunark said:

I stopped reading anything else you said after you said summoners have highest mobility. I've yet to see any summoners do far mark in HH, which a "high mobility" class is required for. From what I asked summoner friends, they said summoners don't have enough mobility to far mark.

 

Going to leave my 2 cents. They're aiming now in KR to look at balancing classes. As is, gunner (at least fire gunner) = low risk & low effort class to play for high reward with dps. They have plenty of mobility and i-frame tools as well. Gunner needs effort as well in gearing to get the same DPS as higher geared other classes. Even in 6v6, gunners don't even need to invest in PVP SSs or weapons to perform extremely well. A lot of high performing gunners simply go in with a VT8 PVE SS set and Raven/Aransu and can nuke teams, whereas most other classes need to invest in a whole new set of PVP SSs and Ascendant/Dragon Forge.

Summoners may not have the highest mobility possible ( I might have made a mistake), but gunners definitely don`t have the highest mobility. Gunners are too op in 6v6, i agree on that point.  They should be nerfed in 6v6, but i don`t see any reason why they should would also be nerfed in pve. I have played summoner, and compared to my gunner, I felt like it had better mobility (movement speed too).  Gunner pretty much stand still unless they need to move, i don`t see how that is high mobility.  I responded based on my experiences with summoner. The way others played the class might be better than mine, but since i am not them, i was only able to rely on my own experiences to reply. Also, I do believe that some summoners can do far mark in HH, it may not be easy, but it is certainly doable. You stated that you dont believe they have highest mobility just because they do not do far mark in HH, but that is only visual experience. You need practical experience (play the class and see for yourself) to properly judge the class. Others opinions may not be the same as another`s. Saying that you stopped reading my responses just because your friend told you that they can not do far mark in HH and you have yet to see one is just plain rude. One can not fully grasp the abilities of a class without playing it, remember that.

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Kryptone   

The points I stated were simply an answer to your "Gunner only have damage as their good point".

As it's clear that Gunner actually is better than other classes in more fields than damage.

Also, no idea what class you thinking about when you say gunner is not most mobile class;

But I believe it should have been obvious enough that Gunner is infact most mobile with those E.

 

And I don't mean that Gunner shouldn't have highest DPS.

They are meant to have that.

But the amount of damage they can do right now is extremely high in comparison to other classes.

 

Also, maybe it's just me but a class having both highest DPS as well as highest burst feels a bit off.

 

And about your comparison with Assassin;

Don't worry, even after the nerf Gunner will remain top tier Damage dealer.

Also IIRC, Unload is also getting a buff.

 

Also, not trying to discourage or anything but if we follow future KR patches the way it is, Gunner will be receiving even more nerfs in coming patches because it is (was?) believed to be still too strong.

Edited by Kryptone

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raiking   
1 hour ago, Kryptone said:

The points I stated were simply an answer to your "Gunner only have damage as their good point".

As it's clear that Gunner actually is better than other classes in more fields than damage.

Also, no idea what class you thinking about when you say gunner is not most mobile class;

But I believe it should have been obvious enough that Gunner is infact most mobile with those E.

 

And I don't mean that Gunner shouldn't have highest DPS.

They are meant to have that.

But the amount of damage they can do right now is extremely high in comparison to other classes.

 

Also, maybe it's just me but a class having both highest DPS as well as highest burst feels a bit off.

 

And about your comparison with Assassin;

Don't worry, even after the nerf Gunner will remain top tier Damage dealer.

Also IIRC, Unload is also getting a buff.

 

Also, not trying to discourage or anything but if we follow future KR patches the way it is, Gunner will be receiving even more nerfs in coming patches because it is (was?) believed to be still too strong.

I would like you to elaborate on the fields gunner is better than other classes at. 

Can gunner tank?

Does gunner has stealth?

 

Can gunner heal?

can gunners freeze enemies, decrease bosses movement speeds?

Can gunner increase party members hp?

Can gunner protect the whole party?

Does gunner have sb?

I` am sorry, but i fail to see other fields than dps in which gunner is better than other classes, so please tell me more about it, since you seem to know more than me who played the class.  If it was not for the dps, I would never play gunner. Those E you speak of can not always be used.  This is the first time someone tells me that gunner is better than other classes in a field other than dps, never heard that before.

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Ludicium   
14 minutes ago, raiking said:

I would like you to elaborate on the fields gunner is better than other classes at. 

Can gunner tank?

Does gunner has stealth?

 

Can gunner heal?

can gunners freeze enemies, decrease bosses movement speeds?

Can gunner increase party members hp?

Can gunner protect the whole party?

Does gunner have sb?

I` am sorry, but i fail to see other fields than dps in which gunner is better than other classes, so please tell me more about it, since you seem to know more than me who played the class.  If it was not for the dps, I would never play gunner. Those E you speak of can not always be used.  This is the first time someone tells me that gunner is better than other classes in a field other than dps, never heard that before.

I don't you understand what Kryptone was getting at. S/he doesn't mean that gunners should be able to perform other tasks in which other classes can/are designed to do, s/he simply meant that damage isn't the only area that gunslingers excel at. 

 

That aside, I have seen gunslingers tank before, they also have skills that debuff movement speed.

Edited by Ludicium

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I remember seeing a dev article, think it was somewhere here in the forums, about devs in Korea saying gunner had slightly higher dps than what they intended gunner to have. So if that is true ofc gunner is gonna get a nerf.

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raiking   
30 minutes ago, Ludicium said:

I don't you understand what Kryptone was getting at. S/he doesn't mean that gunners should be able to perform other tasks in which other classes can/are designed to do, s/he simply meant that damage isn't the only area that gunslingers excel at. 

 

That aside, I have seen gunslingers tank before, they also have skills that debuff movement speed.

Kryptone stated that gunner was better than other classes in other fields than dps. the key word here is "better", that is what I disagree with. My experience with the class proved that that statement is completely wrong. 

 

31 minutes ago, Ludicium said:

I don't you understand what Kryptone was getting at. S/he doesn't mean that gunners should be able to perform other tasks in which other classes can/are designed to do, s/he simply meant that damage isn't the only area that gunslingers excel at. 

 

That aside, I have seen gunslingers tank before, they also have skills that debuff movement speed.

Gunners dont tank. They run away from bosses, that is not called tanking in my eyes. Maybe they can tank small  bosses that are not very difficult, but the ability of gunner when it comes to tanking is far lower than real tanking classes, that is a fact.

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raiking   
1 hour ago, Arohk said:

xQ3KmUg.jpg

A dps class should have high damage to make dungeons/raids easier for their parties. Those stats are normal. I played almost every class in game except for the tanky ones, and that is why i can tell that played well, other classes are not that far behind gunners in terms of dps.

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Ludicium   
5 minutes ago, raiking said:

Kryptone stated that gunner was better than other classes in other fields than dps. the key word here is "better", that is what I disagree with. My experience with the class proved that that statement is completely wrong. 

Gunners dont tank. They run away from bosses, that is not called tanking in my eyes. Maybe they can tank small  bosses that are not very difficult, but the ability of gunner when it comes to tanking is far lower than real tanking classes, that is a fact.

Gunslingers specializes in mobility (even more so with Shadow build), aside from that gunslingers has one of the highest amounts of CC skills out there, if spec'd into them (up to 6). I'm sure there's plenty more areas, I'm just brain dead atm.

I'm not saying that Gunslingers should tank, I'm saying that they can/I've seen it before and not on 'small bosses', albeit the character was pretty well geared, but against bosses in Skybreak Spire.

 

But that aside, like I've said in the past and other people on this post have said, the main thing going for the gunslinger is it's damage output and burst potential (even the class description says so), however, I guess the devs saw that the DPS was too high/higher than intended, hence the nerf.

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10 hours ago, raiking said:

 

I firmly disagree. Gunner does not have the Highest Mobility, summoners do. 

This isn't true, a summoner has limited i-frames and can't spam them to avoid damage. After a summoner runs out of i-frames they are vulnerable for 20 to 30 seconds. Even a warlock has the same flaw, but even with the block skill a warlock can still be hit from behind and/or stun locked and well... You can interrupt and break both summoner, kitten and warlock and its thrall easily. Gunners can just Q stone or anchor away and avoid most stuns and interrupts. If they don't they have a quicker cooldown on block skill too. Or call up their snake which is basically the warlock's talisman shield i-frame for the body. 

 

And like @Ludicium stated, "Gunslingers specializes in mobility". No other class out there can avoid damage and attack from safety as easily and safely as a Gunner. Not even an assassin running a stealth build. Wingstorm or a iframe can avoid them [assassins] or cause them to be revealed. Yet, if you're melee you'll never catch a gunner unless they don't use an anchor to jet away or don't know what they are doing. Yet, other classes like summoner, don't have any real gap closer, nor any true long range escape skill. You may say they have stealth, but even that isn't long enough to make them run as far as a gunner can in 5 anchor casts... Even when I'm out of combat using windstride, a gunner who is in combat can keep up with me until they run out of anchors. and then all they need to do is reload :-( and they get another anchor or so. 

 

Maybe the nerf will help make up for the gunner's high mobility, by make them not burst a person down as fast with relative immunity from being hurt. 

Edited by KiraKamelia

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Windy   
21 hours ago, raiking said:

why nerf Gunners? they only have damage as their good point. If it was not for the damage, no one would play it, since it has nothing else. Now, they want to take away from them their dps. Lightning sin will definetely pass gunners; Summoners might also pass it. I need a thorough explanation to this nerf, better not be because players complained about the dps, or i might just insult the whole bns player community. a 10 percent dps nerf is huge on gunners. I do agree that they are too op in 6v6, but that is no reason to nerf it, since those who know how to play their class can easily kill gunners, for they suck in pvp. I wish the nerf would only apply to 6v6.

10% dps is even too few, if you ask me ,around 25% would be even better.Yet I don't think this would happen straight-they need to sell the lyn gunner and for now it stays.Take my 2 cents .

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Sheral   

I explained many times I think that these people do not understand just want to give nerf for lack of knowledge, but I make it simple for them to understand, compare a gunner full with VT badge, check their damage, then compare a gunner without VT badge and check their damage. A gunner without VT badge damage is normal to other classes with respect to dps, but if you are the ones who play and supposedly know. Now I wonder if they are going to complain after the super nerf to gunner?

Edited by Sheral

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