Hard Mode reward buff - Nice try, but wrong direction

[Kozuki]

So, NCWest believes that there are not too many incentives for players to spend time learning mechanic properly and tackle hard mode due to subpar rewards, leading to people rather running 3 runs of Normal Mode at ease instead of spending potential more time on a single run of Hard Mode (one careless mistakes ruins the whole run). Thus, they attempt to buff reward for Hard Mode next patch.

 

Nice try, but you are going to a wrong direction.

 

Regarding of Raven SS chests and a new way to grind for BT accessories attached to Hard Mode, I think they are trivial. Players who are capable to run Hard Mode comfortably tends to be highly-geared already up to VT level, or at least have easy access to BT raid to earn those BT items. Not mentioning 600 HELLION cores for a single BT accessories is overkill. Hellion cores can be used for Hellion stuffs. For PvE, playeres use Belt, Gloves and Bracelet, and some  classes use the ring. For PvP players, they add necklace, earring, and ring. 600-800 cores for PvE, and 1,200 cores for PvP. And you are asking players to spend 600 cores on a single BT accessory which can be obtained quite easily from the dumb-downed BT raid? If a Pug group can clear the first BT, they can advance nicely up to third boss for accessories. Granted that they may be not lucky to get what they want instantly, but I think their mind will be kept sane cuz they only have to spend one-two hours per week instead of going to grind 600 hellion cores for weeks.

If anything, the grind for BT gear should be attached to Normal Mode, where it is more meaningful to a lot of players. Instead of asking a whooping 600 cores and Hard Mode-exclusive items, just ask players grind 100 run of Normal Mode Ebondrake Lair/Starstone Mines to earn a Hellion ring/earring, and add an evolution path to turn them into BT ring/earring with Elemental primes that require less Hellion cores (100 is ideal) but more of other materials (Raven Feather/Blackstone).

 

Back to Hard Mode reward, I think the time people stop doing Hard Mode is when 6-man Hard Mode was introduced. Before, 6-man was Normal and 4-man was Hard. 6-man was easier with protection buff, boss' attack telegram, but boss stat and mechanic is the same as 4-man. I liked four-man, as it was easier to find people + less mistakes due to less people (people run 4-man mech in 6-man Desolate Tomb when mech still killed you for this reason) + less bidding competition + more gold split per person + better sense of achievement. 6-man made a good preparation for players to learn mech and become hard-mode ready, as you can apply mech from normal mode to hard mode.

 

Nowadays, Normal Mode has become too easy, create a gap between Normal Mode and Hard Mode. Normal Mode has dumb-downed mech, which doesn't help players to learn mech properly to tackle Hard Mode. Everything essential for gear upgrade can be obtained from Normal Mode where bosses can be killed with DPS race, rez charm can be used to skip mech, while Hard Mode has much tougher bosses, harder mech but rewards so little. So less players who care about mech = less players who do Hard Mode. You need 6-man instead of 4-man to do Hard Mode, so it becomes even harder to gather players. Hard Mode for dungeon starting Naryu Sanctum and above has now vanished from F8 recruitment. It only happens in clan/friend/static runs now. I never once saw people wearing outfit of HH/DD/SM hard mode in F8.

 

Yeah, this happens because NCWest pampers casual players too much. There is nothing can be done about this because the consequences already appears. If NCWest wants players to do Hard Mode more now, instead of trying to attach items that trivial to Hard Mode-capable players. The time should match with the effort. If you can run 3 runs of Normal HH without no worry instead of a single run of Hard Mode HH that can fail for a single mistake, then a single Hard Mode HH should give at least triple reward. A run of Hard Mode HH should give at least 6-10 treasure chests, for example. Maybe with boxes that give 1-5 Hive Queen's Wings, since this is more relevant to Hard-Mode-capable players. Or you know what? Moonstones, lol.

 

 

[Astarae]

Maybe intensity of bosses & rewards should scale partly based on the group's average or sum-total level?

So a bunch of HM17's will get harder dungeon than a bunch of HM8's.

 

I find games that scale based on player level to be more interesting and more challenging and less frustrating.

 

I think it sorta sucks now -- to upgrade my weap, I need a HiveQueenRancor -- but anyone would tell me that getting that is way out of my ability range -- indeed, someone who was selling them only wanted 8000g for one (1000g to get into party+7000g to buy).  Games that require that level of resource expenditure to upgrade 1 piece of equipment have something broken.

[Sheral]

I agree that the drop in ss raven hard dungeons does not work, the majority that comes into hard mode are guys with top gear either aransu or raven +9, 600 hellion seems to me a mockery considering the rng of the dungeon, hellion drop by box is 1.1 with good luck you get a review of 10 opening between 10 to 30 boxes, I think there should be no difference in the mechanics of normal and hard mode would have to be exactly the same but with less life in the boss, it also goes through my mind that if ncsoft does not want to change certain aspects of the game that are working very badly but it must be tied to the rules of ncsoft korea, to this I added recently I was watching some streams of Korean guys on the server of korea and they have not fixed so far the oneshot, I saw partys of boys with dragon +9 as the erased a kfm with the aoe of the vt badge that gives for 10s

nhances 21060 Tremor

21060 Tremor activates Incineration on use

Incineration deals 5000% of Attack Power as Flame damage over 10 sec flame

Incineration deals 1500% of Attack Power as additional Flame damage on hit with the last attack flame

21111-flame Tiger Strike deals 400% of Attack Power as additional Flame damage to hit inside the area of Incineration flame

Incineration penetrates defense, deflect

I already lost hope, the game will continue as this is not going to change anything and I think it's going to get worse GG

[FrozenB]

59 minutes ago, Astarae said:

Maybe intensity of bosses & rewards should scale partly based on the group's average or sum-total level?

So a bunch of HM17's will get harder dungeon than a bunch of HM8's.

 

I find games that scale based on player level to be more interesting and more challenging and less frustrating.

 

I think it sorta sucks now -- to upgrade my weap, I need a HiveQueenRancor -- but anyone would tell me that getting that is way out of my ability range -- indeed, someone who was selling them only wanted 8000g for one (1000g to get into party+7000g to buy).  Games that require that level of resource expenditure to upgrade 1 piece of equipment have something broken.

In this game, HM level has no meaning. HM 8 lv55 player can have full vt gear while HM 15 lv55 can have baleful and story line quest gears.

[Nanology]

Players have, for a long time, been complaining about difficulty getting BT accessories, whether it’s because of bad rng or inability to find a raid. I think this is NCWest’s response to those complaints. They are now making a farmable option to get BT accessories, which is great, but it’s too little too late. As you said, they’ve gone completely in the wrong direction with tying it to hard mode end game dungeons.  It seems like they are listening to feedback, but it’s obvious they don’t actually play the game. If they played the game, they would know that the people who are capable or interested in the challenge of hard mode end game dungeons already have all the BT gear they need. As someone who already has VT gear, what incentive do I have to do hard mode dungeons? After running it once with my friends for the achievement and the fun of learning the mechanics, I have none. And after this update, I still have no reason to run anything in hard mode. If they add Hive Queen Wings or Moonstones, then sure, but as it stands, this is just another disappointing update.

[Cor]

Quote

I think it sorta sucks now -- to upgrade my weap, I need a HiveQueenRancor -- but anyone would tell me that getting that is way out of my ability range -- indeed, someone who was selling them only wanted 8000g for one (1000g to get into party+7000g to buy).  Games that require that level of resource expenditure to upgrade 1 piece of equipment have something broken.

I got mine for 0g. It is not the games fault if you decide to cash it instead of finding a proper clan/static raid.

 

And yeah, raven feathers is just plain dumb as reward and 600 cores overkill.

[WhySoSeriousBro]

Introducing bt accs and soulshields to HM dungeons? Well, you need bt/vt gear to do those dungeons in HM in the 1st place. NcWest is on crack

[Astarae]

6 hours ago, FrozenB said:

In this game, HM level has no meaning. HM 8 lv55 player can have full vt gear while HM 15 lv55 can have baleful and story line quest gears.

I didn't say it should be proportional to gears -- HM level is proportional to experience -- so I used that.

 

1 hour ago, Cor said:

I got mine for 0g. It is not the games fault if you decide to cash it instead of finding a proper clan/static raid.

Where did I say I did it for cash?    I am in a clan, but you just told me, by definition, that it doesn't fit your definition of "proper".   I've seen many raids that charge for just for being allowed in the raid -- again -- more cash.  So stop giving empty and meaningless advice unless you want to bring me along every week for one of your "proper" raids, as your solution is empty if it doesn't exist.

[Fufia]

I tried to get BT ring for months and he never drop im getting very frustrated with this because I'm not working for the ring i just try my lucky every week.

Now i need space on my ssd to install FFXV and I have two options uninstall BS or NieR Automata after seeing this will probably be BS. But i try 1more time today get the crap ring

Definitely not go run HM to get this.

[aa424530248]

How about 60 hellion cores and 3 blackstones?

[LuIius]

helping newer players gear up quicker can only create problems, it'll be just like it is in bt these days, you try and run it and you wipe to first boss because you have 5 gunners with bale 9 just pewpewing, they may have the required gear to clear it but all that gear have been given to them for free from storyline and nerfed dungeons. Imo, the more you remove the requirement of doing mechanics properly the worse of the community will be in the end, I understand the need to make sure everone enjoys the game, but it really isn't enjoyable if it isn't a challenge at any Point, and if the difficulty level just suddenly spikes once you get to vt/sk then people wont be happy. You can already see the effects of NcWests nerfs to dungeons, if FAS/Snowjade was realeased 1 year ago, (with the proper scaling of the healthbars etc.) they would be concidered really easy and there would be few wipes, todays players have never had to knock down Bukka in EC or block orbs in soguns lament, nor do they have any idea of how yeti mechs works, therefor it's became a nightmare to try and clear some of the bosses in FAS/Snowjade with a pug party. 

 

bottom line; imo rewards from normal mode should be nerfed and rewards from hard mode should be buffed.

[iegodoy6117]

I have an issue with them adding Black Tower SS to these hard mode dungeons and being able to buy BT accessories with hellion cores. A lot of people put in the time for what was end game gear, and now it is kind of being handed out. End game gear is end game gear, should be hard to get and takes time to acquire. Whether it be BT, or VT gear it should take time to get. One thing that NCsoft could do is have an better equipment tier system. The weapon path is a good start, but it needs to be expanded to SS, and accessories as well. Hard mode dungeons could provide that, items that are better than normal dungeon drops but definitely not as good as what you would receive in BT or VT. This will help out casual players as well as the hardcore players.

 

This is just my two cents on the matter with possible alternative.

[FrozenB]

5 hours ago, Astarae said:

I didn't say it should be proportional to gears -- HM level is proportional to experience -- so I used that.

 

Actually, HM level doesn't correspond to experience. I have seen a lot of HM13+ doesn't know a single mech  in DT, EC, NF, NS, etc. Maybe leveling is a bit too easy nowadays to reach HM13+?

 

HM8- doesn't mean they are not experience. In fact, they may be just alts from the players who played this game since beta.

[LoliDolly]

5 hours ago, LuIius said:

bottom line; imo rewards from normal mode should be nerfed and rewards from hard mode should be buffed.

ok seriously nerf normal mode rewards. There is barely any normal mode rewards in EC and on up. Sometimes i see one lousy thing drop. Now if your talking about what we get from turning in daily or Killing boss...are you serious? What you get a few mats couple cores and if your lucky enough 100 gold from those chests. I think normal mode stuff you get is just right for normal mode. You wanna nerf it, might as well take everything away and just tell the players they are running it for fun. I mean as for legendary drops lol i have only ever seen three legendary drops in any dungeon in over 2 years of playing this game XD. So might as well make the legendary drops and other things like transcendence engine be a 0% drop rate too. smh nerfing what is recieved from normal mode will only make players leave. Im all for buffing hard mode. Gives me something to look forward to.

[Tufa]

I don't see anything wrong with the direction.  I was farming BT from the day it came out, and back then it was HARD. Several months of failure.  We currently  have several posts on the boards now from mid-AP players claiming they are good enough to run with anyone.  Well, here ya go.  All you mid-AP guys that need your BT stuff have an opportunity to band together and do something a little hard.  Trust me, it will still be a fraction of the difficulty we faced when it first came out.

 

Why is it that simply because new gear comes out that the old gear must now become easy to obtain? 

[Astarae]

10 hours ago, FrozenB said:

Actually, HM level doesn't correspond to experience.

Wrong.  It's a fixed amount of experience/HM level.  The higher the HM level, the more exp points they have to have -- those

take time to generate.  No way around that unless you buy into a higher level char.

 

[Cherish]

7 minutes ago, Astarae said:

Wrong.  It's a fixed amount of experience/HM level.  The higher the HM level, the more exp points they have to have -- those

take time to generate.  No way around that unless you buy into a higher level char.

 

From my understanding of what was written they are talking about player experience and their use of skills and knowledge of dungeon mechs etc not experience earned from kills.

[Astarae]

4 hours ago, Cherish said:

From my understanding of what was written they are talking about player experience and their use of skills and knowledge of dungeon mechs etc not experience earned from kills.

Sorry, you need to read back to what they were responding to.  They were responding to my earlier statement, where I said:

20 hours ago, Astarae said:

I didn't say it should be proportional to gears -- HM level is proportional to experience -- so I used that.

By stating that HM level is proportional to experience, and as HM level is based on the game's definition of experience as measured in experience points, it seems fairly clear that I was using the game's measure of experience as expressed in HM-levels.

 

The whole point of using HM-level as a simplistic and objective measure of experience was to get away from subjective definitions that are unusable as a litmus test as for whether or not someone is ready for some specific game quest or mission.

 

People creating straw-man arguments against using HM-level on the basis that it isn't proportional to the game's definition of experience is deliberately trying to mislead readers (such as yourself), so as to dismiss or sabotage attempts at a reasonable discussion.  One might even go so far as to note that such attempts to sabotage useful discussions is a behavior shared by trolls wishing to disrupt a social group.

 

We might want to be careful so as not to get caught in their web -- as one of their main purposes is to prevent progress for others to communicate and suggest ideas.

 

[Grimzy]

How about we add something similar to item levels and measure things based on that? For example:

 

Every piece of gear in every stage of upgrading will have a item level. Sum of the levels will indicate how geared you are.

Additionally dungeon clears will earn you clear points and those can be used as an indication on what your skill level for a dungeon is. This ofc would be account wide looking at alts for other players.

 

But this would be fairly easier than seeing someone with maxed out gear + VT stuff and then turns out he simply swiped his CC for it and dies on the first boss in Ebondrake Lair because he never did the dungeon and doesnt know crap (literally happened)