Kasumi Rose

Overpowered Classes

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REDSERA   

Nerfing on any class is going to be dangerous to everyone in PVE. In boss raids and dungeons, even the slightest reduction in terms of AP, extra button required, etc is going to effect the party's performance.

 

Remember, a party can't last long if it's just consisting of a single class. Neither can a party be efficient if they are missing a class.

 

We need each other.

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      You're right, and I'm really trying to get people to think of buffs instead of nerfs, because "buffs imply that we want to get everything in this thin, narrow band of power-level" (Brode), and due to the type of game that Blade and Soul is, that's really what we have to be trying to do. Currently, there are classes that are stronger than others, but that shouldn't be the case unless players are given the ability to quickly switch their class in order to deal with their counter AND/OR every class is given more dramatic moves that can counter any singular class as needed. This is basic stuff. Think Pokemon and the various creature types that need to be played around. A  system like that is possible in Pokemon because the player can quickly switch to a different type mid-battle. Honestly, I don't think we're super far off from having a balanced game, meaning we have a pretty decent mix of moves on every class that counters other classes, but it still needs changes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

                                                                                                                                  Works Cited

Brode, Ben. Blizzard's Ben Brode Answers Hearthstone Questions From Twitter | Tech Support | WIRED, Youtube. 2018.

 

(Yes, I just used Works Cited in a Blade and Soul forum post.)

Edited by Kasumi Rose

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Yeah. All classes are overpowered. Please rework them and let us fight 6v6 using same pillow. No one will get hurt and we can live in harmony.

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1 hour ago, heartkreuz91 said:

Yeah. All classes are overpowered. Please rework them and let us fight 6v6 using same pillow. No one will get hurt and we can live in harmony.

1

      I don't want the game to be dull and boring with equally powered classes; I want the game to introduce moves that allow each class to effectively deal with one another so there won't be an imbalance (that's not the same as nerfing them all down to doing nothing - quite the opposite).

Edited by Kasumi Rose
(lol made my comment sound less angry.)

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As a FM main and someone who plays 6v6 for fun and has a decent amount of gear and chills in the top 50 for 6v6 (i am poop at 1v1 but i know my class) they are op, there dmg with vt base and pvp weap/ss is a one shot to anyone not paying attention this goes for ice and flame. There stalling is too easy to pull off with guaranteed resets with dragonforge and if you are good you can stall 6 ppl indefinitely, we are unkillable if we don't make a mistake. On the other side of the coin, while we are stalling we can't kill unless there is a pleb out of position or we notice ss/tab is down (there is no reason it should be in a 6v1). that is the trade off. However it is too good at both. what i would like to see is trading off that immunity for the frost def buff back, it used to be 10%, this would open up more options for both fm and the attackers. As it stands now fm is too good at stalling and with only one person with an aoe cc chain can kill entire teams or burn tab/ss for free.

 

On my notes for 1v1, i despise the wall bang and the freeze impact kb stun, i feel disgusting using it, but if that were to be taken away from fm they would have nothing and would become trash tier. they only way to bring balanace to the future of both 1v1 and 6v6 is to have pvp only effects on skills. the coding is already in the game with items being restricting from arena, there is no reason why they could not do that on skills too. Then they could add change and remove certain things based on the pvp and not affect the pve. just my 2 cents.

Edited by Princess Kupo
added 1v1 opinion :3

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^ Good comment. It's well thought out, and it covers two sides, meaning you've probably thought about it for a while.

 

The only other thing I can add in support of removing infinite immunity is that infinite immunity is a frankly boring mechanic and not good for gameplay. ;P

OR

we can get crazy and talk about some kind of buff that allows classes to break immunity, buuuuuuuuuuuut then it's not really immunity so probably scratch that.

Edited by Kasumi Rose

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Immunity becomes a problem when it gets stacked. SS's max pet and class skills, once you combine all of those certain class's stand out because of their innate defensive kit. some class's have an overloaded kit when coupled with this and become broken, while others just have a bit more def.

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Exaactly, and it almost wouldn't be a problem if the ridiculous amounts of defense/escape/etc. (I call it utility) weren't often coupled with very high AP/high rates of spammability.

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Astarae   
On Thursday, February 15, 2018 at 2:02 AM, HateMe said:

Given some classes are a bit ridiculously overpowered (gunner) the general consensus is:

That those that see gunners as overpowered are smoking something.  In most scenarios, a summoner has the simple benefit of it being 2 on 1, with one of them being a computer AI-driven character not limited by ping delays.  It's the worst in 1:1 duel, where I've never one against the 2:1 odds.  They claim they normalize equipment damage -- fine-- but they don't normalize number of damage-output units or ping delays. 

 

Someone with a <90 ping is always gonna have more options than someone who's ping is in the 130-170 range (during off-peak times), 220-240 during peak times.

 

The idea that gunners are overpowered is ridiculous.  Against any player, I need to be at least 4-6 levels higher than them to have a chance.  The cat does make the summoner overpowered when they can toss it from 50% farther than I can shoot.

On Sunday, February 18, 2018 at 11:33 PM, HateMe said:

Here is the point tho:

Even with crouching tiger the cat gets literally bursted to death in 2-3 hits. So the cat is not an option to count as something that makes the summoner overpowered, not to mention you can literally get out of all its CC's since all other classes have at least 2-3 escape skills or skills preventing CC's like warlock / destroyer.

I rarely have option to shoot cat, let alone burst it.  Not to mention it can hit me when summoner is out of range and/or invisible.  How many times have I died to a cat before I can escape -- once, or find the summoner...too many to count.  2-3 escape skills...??  Um.... try 1 that takes forever to recharge.  I was a good 75m away from a summoner and started running the opposite direction only to have its cat launched at me before I got 10m. 

 

There is no way a gunner should be limited to 15m range.  That's just insane.  Like -- HM-highest power: sniper stance -- but only closer than 15m???  What sniper stands in full view 15m away from their target?    Gunners are way under-powered except in fantasy-powers like juggling (which gets bonuses w/pvp equipment).  If you are running with pve-equipment, which most do on SSP -- except those there to assassinate & kill other players who come only w/pvp.

 

If they want to make the game more fun/equalized, allow us to have more defense.  I am constantly ragged on because I have some points in Crit-defense and am not totally going with Crit-offense and related.  Anyone setup for pve is pure fodder for anyone in pvp gear.  It's too lame for words -- since 95% of the time on SSP I need pve, there's no way to switch gear -- even if I had pvp gear to switch to.  It's already too expensive to keep up 1 set of gear for pve, let alone pvp as well...

 

In any DnD or any game I've ever played, having strong defense is considered a smart move.  You can't one-shot someone with strong offense when your first clue they are their is not being able to move. 

Edited by Astarae
finishing post

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HateMe   
20 hours ago, Astarae said:

That those that see gunners as overpowered are smoking something.  In most scenarios, a summoner has the simple benefit of it being 2 on 1, with one of them being a computer AI-driven character not limited by ping delays.  It's the worst in 1:1 duel, where I've never one against the 2:1 odds.  They claim they normalize equipment damage -- fine-- but they don't normalize number of damage-output units or ping delays. 

 

Someone with a <90 ping is always gonna have more options than someone who's ping is in the 130-170 range (during off-peak times), 220-240 during peak times.

 

The idea that gunners are overpowered is ridiculous.  Against any player, I need to be at least 4-6 levels higher than them to have a chance.  The cat does make the summoner overpowered when they can toss it from 50% farther than I can shoot.

I rarely have option to shoot cat, let alone burst it.  Not to mention it can hit me when summoner is out of range and/or invisible.  How many times have I died to a cat before I can escape -- once, or find the summoner...too many to count.  2-3 escape skills...??  Um.... try 1 that takes forever to recharge.  I was a good 75m away from a summoner and started running the opposite direction only to have its cat launched at me before I got 10m. 

 

There is no way a gunner should be limited to 15m range.  That's just insane.  Like -- HM-highest power: sniper stance -- but only closer than 15m???  What sniper stands in full view 15m away from their target?    Gunners are way under-powered except in fantasy-powers like juggling (which gets bonuses w/pvp equipment).  If you are running with pve-equipment, which most do on SSP -- except those there to assassinate & kill other players who come only w/pvp.

 

If they want to make the game more fun/equalized, allow us to have more defense.  I am constantly ragged on because I have some points in Crit-defense and am not totally going with Crit-offense and related.  Anyone setup for pve is pure fodder for anyone in pvp gear.  It's too lame for words -- since 95% of the time on SSP I need pve, there's no way to switch gear -- even if I had pvp gear to switch to.  It's already too expensive to keep up 1 set of gear for pve, let alone pvp as well...

 

In any DnD or any game I've ever played, having strong defense is considered a smart move.  You can't one-shot someone with strong offense when your first clue they are their is not being able to move. 

I believe you are the one smoking something or just plain bad at playing. and here is why:

 

The cat does near to 0 damage. the only thing it has is 3 CC skills, thats it. A stun a daze and a kd all with a very high cooldown and all perfectly escapable and counterable. Not to mention once the cat is dead the summoner is basically a sitting duck as all CC skills, immunity skills are only working with the cat.

If you fall for all the baits and waste your escapes in situtations you dont need to thats making you a bad player and not the summoner overpowered.

The entire problem with gunner was that they could instant wipe an entire team dealing basically 200k damage per hit, thats overpowered, a summoner has to play smart to get kills.

 

You go on about defense....well gunners attacks pierced defense, that means regardless what your defense is they will always deal the same damage to you, their hits will simply ignore the defense modifier.

Also if the way you describe you die to summoners is true that simply makes you really bad at it. Unless its a 6v6 you never go for the cat in a 1v1 fight unless you are sure you can burst it down fast, otherwise you just kill yourself. Furthermore, the cat cannot be launched 75m away (this already proves you have no idea what you are saying or doing). The cat can only be launched within a 10-15m range, anything aboe that the summoner looses target of you. Once target once by the cat it will keep on running after you and just bumping into you, if you are further than the 15-20m away from the summoner and the cat is still chasing you, thats not a problem because at that range cat skills dont work and summoner cant recall the cat either so its basically a bump cart.

 

Learn to play the game and your class first before making statements that have no coverage in reality.

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Astarae   

Obviously you have your experience, and I have mine. 

 

I was thinking about this -- if what you said was true, someone else would be able to knock off these summoners on a regular basis, but comments by other players is that they are "too op".    They'll take out 3-4 other players of similar or higher level, no prob. 

 

At least one comes in regularly in ssp, hops through both channels just to wipe all the players w/high points.  Occasionally they'll spend time in 1 to either turn around a battle so prospectors don't come out for the entire mining time (~30 minutes) or simply wipe the opposition so nothing happens for an entire round (~1 hour).   They often don't bother to stay around but just come in often enough to wipe everyone who might have enough points (51) to have a chance of killing a berserker.  If there are only 2 channels, they will regularly wipe both of any opposition-win for the current round. 

 

So lets see...you say "once the cat is dead the summon is basically a sitting duck", and you will also say "you never go for the cat in a 1v1 fight unless you are sure you can burst it down fast, otherwise you just kill yourself".  So if you don't go for the cat, and the summoner is out of range (or can't be found because they are invisible), who do you go after?  So, if you don't have any options (they are locked out), how do you escape again?  What really makes me doubt your current game experience is that the only time I've ever beaten summoner a summoner has been in ToI or 1v1 -- w/1v1 being rare, but more than in normal play where my survival is non-existent if I choose to fight.

 

Then you claim "well gunners attacks pierced defense, that means regardless what your defense is they will always deal the same damage to you, their hits will simply ignore the defense modifier".  Huh?  My piercing says it reduces the effect of blocking & damage-reduction by a percentage (20-30%).  You talk about me not knowing the game, but clearly you have no clue what current gunner skills do.  You are describing scenarios that don't exist.  Maybe they did when gunners were introduced, but I wasn't around then.

 

Then you make up a statement about the cat being launched from 75m away.  Either this proves you can't read, or are talking about some other reality.  The closest thing your statement might refer to was my being 75m away from a summoner, then, w/me running away from them, the cat was launched before I got 10m.  Now I actually didn't see the cat being launched -- should have said it hit me before I'd gone 10m -- saying it was launch was an assumption that it probably was launched sometime before hitting me.   I don't know how far the summoner was when they launched the cat at me, as I was running the opposite direction.  They were already running at me when I started running.  Of course it could have been someone else's cat that looked the same who was invisible when I started running, but I've had it happen before, that they can close an insane amount of distance and have their cat attack before I can get a small distance away.  Cat's first attack freezes me in place and for a class that you think doesn't do much damage, it's amazing how they can zero out 150k hits before I can even drink a potion.

 

Another thing you say, as though it means something: "The entire problem with gunner was ...".  "Was" doesn't mean "is".  Two Hundred pts/shot?  Never in my game-lifetime.  Your arguments are about a situation that doesn't exist.  You really need to learn what the game is really like for classes before you go off making weird statements about them.  It just proves your knowledge of the game is outdated and wrong.  Do you even play anymore or just spend time trolling in the forums?  Go try a gunner class with pve gear, *now*.  It's not the cake walk you seem to think it is.

 

BTW -- if you are going to quote a post, learn how to trim it to the parts you are answering.  People don't need to see the whole note thing against when it's right above your post, and its either laziness and disrespectful of other people's time, or ignorance of how to quote.

 

 

Edited by Astarae
mention only quoting parts replied to.

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