Why is Macroing frowned upon?

[CastielSeven]

 

Why is macroing in blade and soul frowned upon when it was allowed inside world of wacraft and many other mmos?  In fact,  blizzard created an interface to make it easier for players to create those macros, they even included icon editing for the new buttons. Macroing did not break PVP and it is still used in high end Arena tournaments today. Many games actually encourage the use of macros. But why has BNS  taken the "it's cheating" approach when it's been done over and over again?

 

Not to mention Razer keyboards who has a razer software which mimicks world of warcrafts type of macro making to some extent.    Why not just allow all players to do it?  The reason why it did not break PVP is because blizzard thought ahead and made it available in game for all with the skill and mindset to do it. 

Here is an example of that. Keep in mind, this is a paid subscription based game. If anyone would have outlawed macroing it should have been blizzard, but they did not.

 

I'd like to suggest BNS to make an interface like this to allow everyone to do it. This way  they can ensure no third party software is used but their own. It worked for other mmos. why not?

 

Edited January 31, 2018 by CastielSeven

[PeacemakerOne]

Because it is an other typ of MMO. Live Action MMO where you can beat an opponent with your Macros is cheating. In world of Warcraft you have to many spells to use but in BnS you have combos. Some of the Macros kill you instant an cast more than a normal user can do.

 

So macro using in BnS is cheating.

[CastielSeven]

1 minute ago, PeacemakerOne said:

Because it is an other typ of MMO. Live Action MMO where you can beat an opponent with your Macros is cheating. In world of Warcraft you have to many spells to use but in BnS you have combos. Some of the Macros kill you instant an cast more than a normal user can do.

 

So macro using in BnS is cheating.

Ah, I see. this does makes sense.   In this case, the mmo by blizzard, they did do one thing to prevent one shots. And it was by adding global cool downs.  Some skills could also not be used with others.  For example if there was an ability that empowered x ability.  Only these two buttons could be mashed together.  But it was not allowed to do with other abilities. 

 

But you are right. There just was way too many spells / abilities in that game that macro was a must have to get anywhere. 

 

Thanks for the clarification. Cheers

[Grimzy]

1 hour ago, CastielSeven said:

Ah, I see. this does makes sense.   In this case, the mmo by blizzard, they did do one thing to prevent one shots. And it was by adding global cool downs.  Some skills could also not be used with others.  For example if there was an ability that empowered x ability.  Only these two buttons could be mashed together.  But it was not allowed to do with other abilities. 

 

But you are right. There just was way too many spells / abilities in that game that macro was a must have to get anywhere. 

 

Thanks for the clarification. Cheers

I may add that in bns some skills are situational and activate only when certain conditions are met, like target stunned / cc'ed or an attack blocked / parried.

[SilverFoxR]

To be fair, there were rumours of macros being implemented to the game at some point down the road... until then, don't risk using them.

[MassiveEgo]

Don't expect an ingame macro to work like a macro program tho. They will try to replicate average (at best) human reaction time, so it won't be the same as zero downtime macro. And I wholeheartedly agree with this. The last thing we need is for this game to play itself. A next level of boring.

[RavTH]

no pls

[ClassicMan]

Macros are only frowned upon in NCwest, in KR BnS they use them and they are allowed by NC. They are even working on a feature to make macros able to use in the game itself without other software. Though I rather press the keys myself since imo macros take the fun out of things.

Edited January 31, 2018 by ClassicMan

[Wataru]

It's like aim, wall, or spinbot hacks in Counter-Strike. Why macro when you can play the game yourself?

[Kozuki]

33 minutes ago, Wataru said:

It's like aim, wall, or spinbot hacks in Counter-Strike. Why macro when you can play the game yourself?

To prevent their hands developing Carpal Tunnel syndrome?

 

Most of people I play with in this game have turned from anti-macro to pro-macro, just cuz their hands start to feel hurt after constantly spamming a rotation through years. Taking a rest in between helps, but not so much. They need their hands to live their real life too, so they have two choices: either risking their hands and develop Carpal Tunnel which hinders them both in-game and real life, or macro to reduce the workload on their hands.

 

Oh, there is the 3rd option too: quit the game altogether to not further damage their hands. Not surprise that some people have chosen this way, cuz nothing more precious than your own health.

 

That is why macro is a support in some other games, and a grey area in BnS, cuz it involves pretty much ban a majority of players that is feeding their wallets to NCSoft, or just simply make the game populated enough for whales to have fun. And it is not like NCSoft says "No" clearly against macro. In fact, Lineage 2 - another NCSoft's game - has macro function, though at a very basic level and cannot loop itself.

 

I think the definition of "the game plays itself" should be given to bots, which is clearly illegal, and to web-based MMORPGs and mobile games where they officially support this. Macro still requires players to be at the PC to play the game. Just less workload.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Kozuki

[RagingPhenix]

a built-in macro can be quite welcomed for certain classes in BnS. Lightning BM for instance could greatly use a LMB/RMB marco

 

[Dad]

9 hours ago, ClassicMan said:

Macros are only frowned upon in NCwest, in KR BnS they use them and they are allowed by NC. They are even working on a feature to make macros able to use in the game itself without other software. Though I rather press the keys myself since imo macros take the fun out of things.

Please show us some info on this, and if it's just somethin from reddit then forget it.

[RagingPhenix]

@Dadhttps://bnstree.com/news/BJZHp8SlM/11.24-kr-developer-letter

 

Sure as heck sounds like a macro

Edited February 1, 2018 by RagingPhenix

[Amarathiel]

Problem with macros is in the pvp side. In this type of a game it most likely can completely eliminate the human error and reaction time, making them extremely unfair in pvp matches if you don't want to use macros or are otherwise unable to use them. I mean what is the point of a pvp match if you use the aid of a computer to play the match for you? That is not a pvp match anymore. At that point it becomes player vs player and computer.

[ClassicMan]

10 hours ago, Dad said:

Please show us some info on this, and if it's just somethin from reddit then forget it.

Pretty much what @RagingPhenix linked. I could be wrong but it has the description of a macro. If you mean the part about macros being allowed in KR then multiple KR BnS streamers already confirmed that. 

[Grimzy]

10 hours ago, RagingPhenix said:

@Dadhttps://bnstree.com/news/BJZHp8SlM/11.24-kr-developer-letter

 

Sure as heck sounds like a macro

It sounds more like chains like you have in tera with the "spacebar" meaning:

 

Press 1 and you use skill A, then you get a popup like with joint CC's where if you press "space" if will cast another skill.

Thats why they say "esperienced players will not find much use for it", if it was an actual macro system they would target the experienced players and not the newbies.

[Wixa]

2 hours ago, HateMe said:

It sounds more like chains like you have in tera with the "spacebar" meaning:

 

Press 1 and you use skill A, then you get a popup like with joint CC's where if you press "space" if will cast another skill.

Thats why they say "esperienced players will not find much use for it", if it was an actual macro system they would target the experienced players and not the newbies.

so if the "chain" is 1 and press 1 without taking my hands off it, would all the "chain" skill execute too? Wouldn't you classify this as macro? Pretty sure this is a macro, Not advanced like most people use but still is.

 

But the description says "allow one button to chain multiple commands", which means you use 1 then any of it's chained skills would execute.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Wixa

[SalemK]

I would like to point out that it doesn't exactly say that it won't be useful for experienced players. It says that it "may" not be meaning if it is a macro they might not need to use it because they are already used to pressing the buttons themselves. Imo though even if it is a simple thing that allows you to s+s with one button press then it is still a macro or if it is pressing one button to do 2rf for instance whether you have to tap or hold down the button to do it, still a macro to me.

[Dad]

If it's like Chains then it would make it also like the new DBZ fighters with auto combos which maybe good and bad for people who likes to manual combo.

[CastielSeven]

On 2/1/2018 at 9:33 AM, HateMe said:

It sounds more like chains like you have in tera with the "spacebar" meaning:

 

Press 1 and you use skill A, then you get a popup like with joint CC's where if you press "space" if will cast another skill.

Thats why they say "esperienced players will not find much use for it", if it was an actual macro system they would target the experienced players and not the newbies.

Im not sure if I like this idea. Least in world of warcraft,  it still took skill to know which to macro, and you were limited to 3 spells.  On my dk, I would combine skill buffs with Howling Blast + Defense buff. (Example)

 

While there was a macro system in wow, it was limited and you still had to press over 9 buttons. 

 

The problem I have in BNS though, is that while I can change the keys I press for the skills. The Icons remain in the same place and it becomes confusing.

 

But im not sure if a macro system would work on BNS. (Now that I think about it.)

[Iwaylo]

in bns macro is basically the game plays itself for you, why and how is that any fun. i'm playing kfm and i rather do my 2rf myself than have it macroed.  

  

Played World of Warcraft long enough and was glad during WotLK. Back in those days people who had macros were the good players, using focus target cc and protect macros was very important. It involved the targeting system and not so much the game playing itself. We didn't use any macros that would use certain skills after certain time delay like a macro in BnS would be that's just dumb.

[fortran silverfrost]

Imo, any macro are fine and completely justified, i even would say to some extent bots are too. With that said, I’m not using one for rules are rules, and I won’t go against them. Yet I do feel this way because blade and soul always favors players with best reaction time, and strategy which no matter how good it may be would never beat a super fast player who learned some cc combos. (Both pvp and pve wise)  Brains vs brute of nowadays, if you ask me. It takes quite a while to make a macro, or locate and install already existing one with dependencies in most cases. When it comes to making a bot, even as simple as fishing, it could take days or weeks. So why aren’t the smart players rewarded for their strength to same extent fast ones are?

Edited March 5, 2020 by fortran silverfrost

[Arohk]

Macros in WoW are very limited and you can't make cast sequences with perfect timing, abilities have global cooldown, they mostly just make it easier to get the right taget without having to click on it, i consider a good macro build a form of skill in WoW.

If you use a one button macro in BNS that perfectly executes a combo chain to kill someone in arena from 100-0 ( i have experienced this in arena many times) it is cheating, also there is no ingame way to create macros, you need external hardware or software to create them.

[LilyFU]

6 hours ago, fortran silverfrost said:

Imo, any macro are fine and completely justified, i even would say to some extent bots are too. With that said, I’m not using one for rules are rules, and I won’t go against them. Yet I do feel this way because blade and soul always favors players with best reaction time, and strategy which no matter how good it may be would never beat a super fast player who learned some cc combos. (Both pvp and pve wise)  Brains vs brute of nowadays, if you ask me. It takes quite a while to make a macro, or locate and install already existing one with dependencies in most cases. When it comes to making a bot, even as simple as fishing, it could take days or weeks. So why aren’t the smart players rewarded for their strength to same extent fast ones are?

you have a funny way to see this.

Now try to apply to other situations and see how dumb it is.

NCS greed nop they are just smarter than consumer idiots. doping nop no problem just smart ppl. scams in real life no problem just smart ppl 

I could stay in this all day but I think you already understand.

Games started to allow macros because it’s practically impossible to stop. any mouse and keyboard nowadays comes with a program that among many things makes macros.

 

Anyway despite NCS saying that it is not allowed. in reality it is allowed.

There are many cases of people reported with video evidence and NCS never ban this ppl.

just take a look at twitch and you can see ppl using macros daily and they have been reported several times 

[Ahn Nie]

Okay - so there are no macros in game that can be used or setup to make combo's easier, but I never relied on games to provide this, not even WoW which I play little now as I am here! XD How did I get around remembering and making new combo's? I use a Macro mouse and keyboard. The mouse is from Logitech and has 5 programmable buttons - got 2 set up for my combo macros. The keyboard I use is from Corsair and has 6 macro keys and I have set up 2 of these so far. They work. It was slow to work out timing between skills for triggering the macro and waiting for the reset/cool down rates, but it works. I always ran out of reset charms! Having said that, most of the time I do not use the macros anyway, not now with the addition of the "Simple" key.