person w/an orb takes all party loot?

[Astarae]

I encountered a "rule"[sic] that doesn't make sense.  If someone needs a party to do a dungeon, but they have a needed white orb, then the party gets no loot?  If the person w/the orb doesn't want to share loot, then why go w/a party?

 

I had the "audacity" to bid for 1 item in a 4-item loot, where we went in with someone else's orb instead of mine, then they got all hostile because they said they owned the loot at the end because they used their orb.  Huh?   Then how is anyone but them getting anything?  I rarely bid on most things, but I thought I'd try to bid on 1 item only to be told i wasn't allowed?  That because I had and won, I was ...well, all sorts of things half of them in spanish.  Can someone explain why they ask for a group of strangers to form a party w/them (I'd chosen that quest as it was one of my dailies). 

 

OTOH, should I have rushed to use my orb ahead of the other person to lock them out of the treasure -- would that have made them happy (I sorta doubt it)?  i'd think they'd then complain that stole their party or something similarly specious.

 

It seems more than a little unfair that only one person gets all in a party.  It also seems it's also broken game dynamics that cause this.  So wazzup up w/this?

 

Confused about party dynamics...

-A

 

[Gman]

the white orb cost between 3 and 4.5 gold..Thats the reason why the one with the orb gets the loot.

[SalemK]

It's just a thing that is something the community has all secretly agreed upon to let the person with the orb get loot as a thank you and out of respect for them using the orb in the first place to let the whole party complete their daily or whatever (most people never bring an orb anyway and rely on others to use theirs). White orbs take an incredibly long time to get if you are farming them and cost a few gold to get on the market. If you want loot to yourself then recruit a party with the announcement my orb my loot, problem solved.

[antarean]

even a 5 day old newbie like me didnt know about this one, went bidding for a yellow pouch in a hope to get a yellow stone.

when i found a white orb was needed to open it and it costs a 1 to 5 golds to buy it,

i can not bid anymore from now on.

 drops go to the opener.

[Astarae]

IF it is agreed upon in advance, as SalemK mentions, that's fine.  But to grab a bunch of strangers in F8, and just assume that seems ripe for misunderstandings -- not to mention  -- the dynamic is unfair (outside of prior agreements -- they are their own rules).

 

I.e. don't care if it costs 400-500G, what do any party members get out of the party if they don't know you and won't see you again?  (not talking people you know, friends or a clan)  For a random group of strangers seems borderline abusive -- like someone who talked about some whale demanding people bow down before them before they would open a gate.  How's it any different -- demanding a loot box or demanding the party members bow down before you? 

 

And love the phrasing SalemK -- "something that "the community" *secretly* agrees upon... like alot of info in this game -- all secret -- which in my mind, doesn't make for "community".

 

Look at it this way -- you spend a buck or two to buy a white orb, but you can get items and such worth 100's.   Many higher level items are easily worth more than a white orb.  The rule doesn't make sense -- ESPECIALLY, since no one else was asked or given the opportunity to use theirs, but if I had jumped in and pushed one of my orbs in before they did, do you think that would have made everything "ok" and no hard feelings?  They had their uncommunicated set of expectations that they'd get to use the party for them to get the chest.  But if I enter w/same set of expectations -- how to resolve.

 

I deliberately believe in *trying* to save for a rainy day -- and have been carrying my orbs with me for when they are needed -- like was w/a party that needed to go on (likely that cold quest), and needed one...   Perhaps if I never carried them around I wouldn't care so much, but being someone who at least over the past few months, has always (post main quest) had a few on me, I tend to resent someone just *assuming* that because they pay for a random group's admission, then they should get all the treasure.

 

How is this different that the whale-attitude who think others "owe them"?

 

 

 

[Tyliast]

It isn't some "secret' rule its a rule that everyone knows about and has been in place since the start of Heaven's Mandate. The only people who might not know about it are new players but even then they could find out by people in game telling them (which is why if you're new you should join a clan to teach you these types of things). White orbs are really difficult to get either through trove, running outdated content, or now in daily boxes so they cost a bit in the marketplace, as other's have said 3-5 gold and even if someone uses their orb and gets all the loot unless something like a pet or pet pod drops they're actually LOOSING value because nothing really in the drop is worth that much except those and maybe the outfit so its just courtesy to give the orb provider the drops because they allowed you to do the dungeon and complete your daily, while again loosing money themselves. 

[antarean]

i just found out cold storage dungeon also needs an white orb to open it?

how could it?

i have done this many times, i didnt know about this.

 

i felt kind of strange why the run was so short. i think i know why now.

if so, so cold storage drops go to the opener as well.

drops are no big deal. there is always another another another run all the time.

 

[SalemK]

7 minutes ago, Tyliast said:

It isn't some "secret' rule its a rule that everyone knows about and has been in place since the start of Heaven's Mandate. The only people who might not know about it are new players but even then they could find out by people in game telling them (which is why if you're new you should join a clan to teach you these types of things). White orbs are really difficult to get either through trove, running outdated content, or now in daily boxes so they cost a bit in the marketplace, as other's have said 3-5 gold and even if someone uses their orb and gets all the loot unless something like a pet or pet pod drops they're actually LOOSING value because nothing really in the drop is worth that much except those and maybe the outfit so its just courtesy to give the orb provider the drops because they allowed you to do the dungeon and complete your daily, while again loosing money themselves. 

I obviously know that. When I said "secret" I meant that it's something that is not said but should be known if you have been playing the game for a while. In the case of beginners then it is something that is secret to them and they wouldn't know unless they ask. Either way I feel if you have a problem with the person that is using the orb in pugs getting all the loot then you should make your own party to automatically get the loot.

[Tyliast]

Just now, SalemK said:

I obviously know that. When I said "secret" I meant that it's something that is not said but should be known if you have been playing the game for a while. In the case of beginners then it is something that is secret to them and they wouldn't know unless they ask. Either way I feel if you have a problem with the person that is using the orb in pug groups getting all the loot then you should make your own party to automatically get the loot.

Sorry I wasn't referring to you but to OP because they said: "And love the phrasing SalemK -- "something that "the community" *secretly* agrees upon... like alot of info in this game -- all secret -- which in my mind, doesn't make for "community"."

[SalemK]

10 minutes ago, Tyliast said:

Sorry I wasn't referring to you but to OP because they said: "And love the phrasing SalemK -- "something that "the community" *secretly* agrees upon... like alot of info in this game -- all secret -- which in my mind, doesn't make for "community"."

Ahh I see, didn't notice their comment. Hopefully I didn't sound hostile lol.

[ComplaintFather]

Easy rule to follow which I follow.

 

If you recruited through F8 with MOML my orb my loot, then I know you have orb and will pass all loots.

 

If you just LFPand tell me moml after you used orb, then I will bid if there is something good. I chanced somebody might not have the orb.

 

If you whine about me bidding then go make a party and recruit.

[Statler]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Astarae:

I.e. don't care if it costs 400-500G, what do any party members get out of the party if they don't know you and won't see you again?  (not talking people you know, friends or a clan)  For a random group of strangers seems borderline abusive -- like someone who talked about some whale demanding people bow down before them before they would open a gate.  How's it any different -- demanding a loot box or demanding the party members bow down before you? 

Its a long term unwritten rule on heavens mandate most players know and agree to, even on LFP-Recruitment.

 

Last time i looked on market for an orb it was about 7 gold worth.

What you get:

Feathers: can only be used to buy Soul Stage 1 or an addon for the Hongmoon White Costume. So pretty useless since you get a better Soul from the Story

Naryu Tablet: pretty useless for most of us

Pouch: with some luck you will get a moonstone crystal not worth 7 gold at all

Pet: Useless since you cant salvage blue pet anymore to upgrade your pet

Hongmoon White Costum: Most time free for all since most already have it

 

So its a difference between "bow down for opening a portal" or to show some respect and gratitude to the person, who spend the orb to let you finish your daily quest by letting them have a pretty use- and worthless loot.

 

 

[Astarae]

@ComplaintFather : I just hit LFP to jump to a party already in progress and it jumped me into some existing party -- so no messages exchanged -- and that's probably my tipping point as well -- if they'd recruited through a message, I could at least decide to find another group or not. 

 

They didn't just whine about me bidding -- all sorts of colorful names/labels w/about half in spanish.  I even told them I didn't want the ill-will if it was that important and asked how I could give it to them -- which started another round of colorful names & labels.  Very disturbing.

 

Seems like a very broken aspect of the game -- I don't care if people agree to the disparity -- it's still a disparity that requires good communication up front, which is unlikely to happen in an open/public free-for-all invite, thus a ripe mechanism for bad feelings (at the very least). 

 

As for relative worth of orbs v. treasure, why would someone get so upset if the treasure is worthless?    And I still don't think  if I'd stuffed the box w/one of my orbs when I came in so I could claim the treasure box, that other party  would be happy and give me all the loot (or even stay around).  Do you? 

[Nala]

I absolutely love that most people still stick to this rule till this day, a lot of people talk about how toxic the community is and so for once everyone is showing a little appreciation to the orb giver for letting them complete their daily by giving them loot which is pretty cool to me. I'm already greatly geared so I pass on everything except treasure pouches sometimes but usually let lower geared take loot.

[DirectorTseng]

1 hour ago, Astarae said:

@ComplaintFather : I just hit LFP to jump to a party already in progress and it jumped me into some existing party -- so no messages exchanged -- and that's probably my tipping point as well -- if they'd recruited through a message, I could at least decide to find another group or not. 

 

They didn't just whine about me bidding -- all sorts of colorful names/labels w/about half in spanish.  I even told them I didn't want the ill-will if it was that important and asked how I could give it to them -- which started another round of colorful names & labels.  Very disturbing.

 

Seems like a very broken aspect of the game -- I don't care if people agree to the disparity -- it's still a disparity that requires good communication up front, which is unlikely to happen in an open/public free-for-all invite, thus a ripe mechanism for bad feelings (at the very least). 

 

As for relative worth of orbs v. treasure, why would someone get so upset if the treasure is worthless?    And I still don't think  if I'd stuffed the box w/one of my orbs when I came in so I could claim the treasure box, that other party  would be happy and give me all the loot (or even stay around).  Do you? 

People get so upset because its an unwritten rule, or common courtesy of the game that has been in place well over a year. Most parties if you start to bid you will be told not to... But there are a great deal of people that simply are sick of those that ignore the MOML rule and bid or intentionally bid up the loot for a few silver.

 

These are things people expect you to know going into the dungeon as they are older dungeons. And now you know for the future. Though honestly unless you don't have an orb just solo it through zaiwei.. If you're able to do dailies you have a high enough ap to waste her by yourself.  

[ArcanumZodiak]

Astarae, i see you are a newish player to the game. you still have orbs from quests. the issue is when you run out of yours, when that happens you will see why most people rage. they aren't a easy thing to comeby, and you would most likely get more profit from selling them than to run the dungeon (daily quest+loot). If i have to buy 1 to get the daily done, i wont even press f8, i solo it.

[Gennady]

2 hours ago, ComplaintFather said:

Easy rule to follow which I follow.

 

If you recruited through F8 with MOML my orb my loot, then I know you have orb and will pass all loots.

 

If you just LFPand tell me moml after you used orb, then I will bid if there is something good. I chanced somebody might not have the orb.

 

If you whine about me bidding then go make a party and recruit.

^ Nice illustration for "toxic community" term. They spent item which costs few golds to let you do your daily challenge. It's totally disrespectful to bid on loot if you didn't use an orb.

[Kozuki]

5 hours ago, antarean said:

i just found out cold storage dungeon also needs an white orb to open it?

how could it?

i have done this many times, i didnt know about this.

 

i felt kind of strange why the run was so short. i think i know why now.

if so, so cold storage drops go to the opener as well.

drops are no big deal. there is always another another another run all the time.

 

It's not. Only the second boss needs orbs to spawn, and he serves as extra xp. He barely has a chance to drop a treasure pouch, lest something nice. So he is ignorable until event that requires his spawn like Merchant of Wonder, or you want quick EXP grinding (90k EXP per two-three minute run).

 

Otherwise, better just use the orb for HM, where it provides more pouches and daily quest.

4 hours ago, ComplaintFather said:

Easy rule to follow which I follow.

 

If you recruited through F8 with MOML my orb my loot, then I know you have orb and will pass all loots.

 

If you just LFPand tell me moml after you used orb, then I will bid if there is something good. I chanced somebody might not have the orb.

 

If you whine about me bidding then go make a party and recruit.

So how it is different between a LFG orb provider and a pre-made orb provider? Even if the first is more reluctant about spending orb until last minute, they are still one who gives you a free run of HM and risk themselves to have loot bidded by people who dunno the unspoken rule, people with greed or people who are adamant with weird policy like you.

 

With more and more loot-bidders like you around, more and more players with gear prefer solo the dungeon instead of LFG or premade to avoid such a headache, thus effectively prevents five other people who are without orbs from complete the dungeon. Such people are often new players with low-gear.

 

Don't complain about toxic players when you're one yourself.

 

[LoliDolly]

Quote

With more loot-bidders like you around, more and more people with gear prefer solo the dungeon instead of LFG or premade, thus effectively prevents five other people who are without orbs from complete the dungeon. Such people are often new players with low-gear.

sadly the above person is right. 

 

honestly its become habit for me if its not my orb im not ever going to bid. I will give that loot to the person who used a orb. However if i buy it now for heavens i just go solo heavens mandate screw the drama. I have done the MOML and still get bidders. Not worth my time. If i give the courtesy in LFP or MOML then i expect the same but i already know that wont happen so if Im buying the orb then im soloing it because well that 5gold is mine and as i said not worth the drama from others. That being said I always check with my clan first because i know they will respect the orb rule.

[Statler]

When i use my orb and see theres a low level, i tell him/her to take the loot, cause i dont need it.

When i join a group, regardless whether it is LFP or chatsearch, i always respect the MOML rule. Its a sign of gratitude to the person who donated the orb and without the orb i couldn't do mandate.

So i dont understand why some people still so greedy and bid on loot even they dont used the orb.

[CastielSeven]

Just noting: This rule ONLY  applies if said person brings an orb to the dungeon heavens Mandate and cold storage.

 

IT DOES NOT apply however, If the orb DROPS in cold storage, and you bid a few silver or even 1 gold and say" loot is mine"  after. If the white orb drops in cold storage, the orb should belong to everyone period. Does not matter if you bid 1 gold or silvers.  If orb drops and we fight the second boss through the use of that orb, loot belongs to all. 

 

Like a few posters already mentioned, orb tends to sell for 4 gold. So your one gold means nothing if you bid and won an orb that should belong to everyone if it drops in cold storage. 

[LoliDolly]

11 minutes ago, CastielSeven said:

Just noting: This rule ONLY  applies if said person brings an orb to the dungeon heavens Mandate and cold storage.

 

IT DOES NOT apply however, If the orb DROPS in cold storage, and you bid a few silver or even 1 gold and say" loot is mine"  after. If the white orb drops in cold storage, the orb should belong to everyone period. Does not matter if you bid 1 gold or silvers.  If orb drops and we fight the second boss through the use of that orb, loot belongs to all. 

 

Like a few posters already mentioned, orb tends to sell for 4 gold. So your one gold means nothing if you bid and won an orb that should belong to everyone if it drops in cold storage. 

lol you are right but lately i have seen people bid on orb then take off with it. -shrugs- that is life though. I wont take off with orb that drops in cold storage but thats just me. I got cussed out when i told someone i was planning on using the orb for kaari they bid a gold i passed and they left saying the f word at me and said they planned on selling it. XD 

[ArcanumZodiak]

55 minutes ago, LoliDolly said:

lol you are right but lately i have seen people bid on orb then take off with it. -shrugs- that is life though. I wont take off with orb that drops in cold storage but thats just me. I got cussed out when i told someone i was planning on using the orb for kaari they bid a gold i passed and they left saying the f word at me and said they planned on selling it. XD 

i, am one of those people, i rather save it for heaven's mandate, than doing kaari lord simply becouse i get nothing out of it, and i am not doing it for the exp also. but i do bid to up 3,50 g for it.

[antarean]

>i just found out cold storage dungeon also needs an white orb to open it?

 

>>It's not.

 

ok it is not then, thanks, but we had a start of the dungeon, the door was closed and there were no mobs and we went to the west side, we found the device that could be found in the mandate one. i have seen people linger around there when i joined in the middle of runs, wierd! but it is good to know i can bid in there again.

[Gennady]

11 minutes ago, antarean said:

but we had a start of the dungeon, the door was closed and there were no mobs and we went to the west side, we found the device that could be found in the mandate one. i have seen people linger around there when i joined in the middle of runs, wierd! but it is good to know i can bid in there again.

That's second boss, which requires orb but gives almost nothing (exp only). Sometimes people recruit for 2nd part if someone left after 1st boss. Only if first boss dropped an orb it makes sense to do 2nd.