Virgil204

Reason why your game failed in the West

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Ok for a game known for it's pvp. your game pretty much failed in the west big time. For a game with a lot of potential it's a shame that the same complaints went unheard cos you simple refused to listen to reason and more importantly what you competitors are doing.

 

so since you refuse to listen to reason I'm going to compare 2 of your classes to their counter parts in the west

 

Assassin compared to the rogue in Wow and the ninja in Final fantasy XIV

 

Note both WoW and FFXIV have made it to over 10million players while having a paid subscription model

 

 

 

Assassin here

 

Has multiple ways to enter stealth both in combat and out of combat. Multiple times

Can stay in stealth for extended periods of time

Can stay in stealth while attacking

Has higher defensive stats in stealth

 

 

Rogue in Wow

 

Can enter stealth out of combat and cannot use the same move once in combat

Has a vanish which allows him regain stealth once in combat but that move in a about a 2min cool down. So for practical purposes in an average pvp match will only be able to use it once

Cannot attack in stealth

moves slower in stealth

has very few moves that can be used in stealth and once a move is made comes out of stealth

 

 

Ninja in FFXIV

 

Can only enter stealth in pvp once a meter gauge has been filled meaning cannot enter stealth at the start of the match

stealth only lasts 15 secs

cannot attack in stealth

moves slower in stealth

has one move that can be used in stealth and once move is made has to wait for meter again to re enter stealth the move itself also has it's own cool down regardless of meter

meter used to enter stealth is shared with other special moves .

 

 

 

 

 

 

Summoner here

 

Has a pet that has high defence, Grapples, and extended block and high damage

summoner has stealth

summoner can swap places with pet if you manage to catch the summoner reseting the game to catch him

summoner can also do alot of damage

pet has a lot of stuns

summoner has a lot of stuns

 

warlock in Wow

 

has multiple pets

 

each pet has one specialisation either defence or offence. Where they are strong in one they are extremely weak in the other

warlock has no stealth

warlock cannot swap places with pet. Meaning the meta is to catch the warlock and then finish them off. you are rewarded for being able to catch the warock

 

Summoner in FFXIV

Has 3 different pets

 

one for offence, one for defence and one for buffs

as with wow if each pet is strong in his role and is very weak in the others

summoner has no stealth

summoner cannot swap places with pet. you get the point

 

 

 

 

there I'm done. These are from both eastern and western companies. They out sell you both in Asia and the west by out 1000 to 1

yet you refuse to listen. Your game is dying and the fixes for your toxic classes are simple

 

prevent the assassin from easily going back into stealth at every given chance. Make assassins think about when they are going to leave stealth and force them to commit once they have struck. (i.e like real life assassins)

remove his high defence in stealth

remove his ability to constantly attack in stealth

remove his screen blinding get out of stun move (I can't understand why his opponent is punished that much for stunning him let alone punished at all)

he already has a move that let's him get back into stealth from a stun break. That is enough

 

bring the summoner in line with the other mmo counter parts

 

 

on a side note. I find it funny that Korean developers hesitate to bring their games to the west. Always waiting many years after demand in the west has died down.

 

Simple your games are designed for flash.

 

Tera

closers online

kritika online

Black desert (The game where every class has a tonne of cCs but not one single class has a CC break)

guns the duels

 

the list goes on

 

you seem to blame the west for your failures and say it's a cultural thing. It's not. The west has many more cultures living in it than you do. The simple fact is most of your games are completely broken. They are flashy and beautiful to look at but their balance is complete trash. You develop games where once the opponent attacks and it's succuessful the defender simply loses control of his character

 

that's a fact. The defender isn't only not able to respond but you actually create systems where the defender will completely be disconnected from his character until he is dead

 

 

Most cultures outside Korea hate this. People like to feel they are in control of their character at all times. However you seem to develop ever more toxic ways to disconnect the player from their character

 

the most radioactive case being the assassin's escape where your screen will actually go White and the player himself can no longer see the game screen for an extended period of time

 

you might say it's a western thing

 

but here are a list of Japanese companies that have been extremely successful in the west

 

Square enix

Namco

Atlus

sony

team that created sword art online

Capcom

Team ninja

Team that created Dark Souls

 

They all have huge followings in the west

 

However you don't have a single company in Korea that has achieved this.

 

infact your companies have failed so much you hesitate to realease your games in the west

 

while your Japanese counter parts regularly has slimontanious releases in the west and infact sometimes realease in the west  first

they have franchises that will be successful just cos of the name

 

I.e Tekken and street fighter just to name a few

 

you do not even have one

 

simple reason is this

 

your games are just flash....no substance.

 

 

As a side note one my other account at the launch of blade and soul in the west I did comment on how toxic the assassin was having played assassin on the RU server and I was meet by the toxic brigade who were only interested in keeping this version exactly the same as Korea's so they could go to the "World championshipS"

 

look at this game now

 

the west rejected it

 

I told them multiple times for there to be a world championship people have to fall in love with the game first and the game wasn't go to fly here.

Multiple people called me an idiot quoting rubbish stats and crap saying I have no idea.

 

you listened to them

Another Korean game failed

 

thing you didn't understand was

 

Those guys didn't care about your game. They care about being famous

 

Assassin was my class and I wanted it nerfed.

 

Cos it was obvious it was unfair and people would hate it

 

I too wanted to go to tournaments but had the insight to know there would be no major championships without a major following.

 

Those guys just wanted to be famous at all costs

they had played for ages of the Korean server and did not want anything changed as to probably ruin their chances of winning. no matter how unfair it was

 

you listened to them

 

and got another dead Korean game.

 

GG

 

and you spent your time banning me

 

Lol

 

p.s Look at your most successful mmo ncsoft. Guild wars 2. That was not only well received in the west but has launched world wide and even in china.

 

do stealth classes work like they do with your Korean developers

 

look at another one of your games Wildstar

 

does the stealth class there work like this assassin

 

and with regard to stealth I'm talking about the mechanic of stealth itself

 

do they give stealth to pet classes

 

I mean come on.

 

 

Edited by Virgil204

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People have been crying for the nerf requested for ages but you don't do anything. you just listen to the hardcore players that have developed toxic tactics to deal of them

 

what you don't realease is that companies like capcom understand there are different tiers of players and do not adjust characters or classes based solely on what top tier can do

 

example. Street fighter IV original realease.

 

sagat not only had great health but also great offense

 

now in fact Sagat did not win 1 major championship

 

however capcom had to nerf him

 

why cos for top tier he was no problem

 

but for mid to low tier he was cancer

 

they realised your never going to get people to top tier if they can't get past mid to low tier

 

i.e they will get frustrated and leave and all you'll be left with is top tier players

 

which are about 1% of the population i.e your game will die

 

it will have great top tier players but your game will be dead.

 

Capcom is an Asian company by the way :)

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Kenms   

yeah, assassin and summoner are my nightmare in pvp. they alway hide in steath and cat, i stand still and cant do anything except letting them kill me fast to finish the match, Blade dancer too, they spin me by a air combo until dead, i wonder how can win when i fight with Sin Sum Or BD while i cant see and make any dmg to them. I said goodbye pvp until ncsoft really change the balance of classes. thank you. sorry my bad english. Im playing Warlock.

Edited by Kenms

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Egoist00   
33 minutes ago, Kenms said:

yeah, assassin and summoner are my nightmare in pvp. they alway hide in steath and cat, i stand still and cant do anything except letting them kill me fast to finish the match, Blade dancer too, they spin me by a air combo until dead, i wonder how can win when i fight with Sin Sum Or BD while i cant see and make any dmg to them. I said goodbye pvp until ncsoft really change the balance of classes. thank you. sorry my bad english. Im playing Warlock.

Lol, how about WL Block(0 CD) and air combo....

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ARC-1276   
1 hour ago, Virgil204 said:

what you don't realize is that companies like capcom understand there are different tiers of players and do not adjust characters or classes based solely on what top tier can do

 

example. Street fighter IV original realease.

 

sagat not only had great health but also great offense

 

now in fact Sagat did not win 1 major championship

 

however capcom had to nerf him

 

why cos for top tier he was no problem

 

but for mid to low tier he was cancer

 

they realised your never going to get people to top tier if they can't get past mid to low tier

 

i.e they will get frustrated and leave and all you'll be left with is top tier players

 

which are about 1% of the population i.e your game will die

 

it will have great top tier players but your game will be dead.

That's the "Drop the mic" moment right there. Certain classes here might not be top tier, but they are such a pain to deal with in mid to low tier because the average player can't perform these crazy exploits to get past the cancerous mechanics. 

 

 

Furthermore: your idea of how PVP should work here is actually perfect, heck I didn't even realize that this was the core problem of the game's PVP system. The way PVP works is by baiting out someone else's escape, or by rendering them in a place where they can't use their escapes (IE FM wallbang, BD air combo, and worst of all WL air combo). I mean, imagine if we can break out of air combos and wallbangs. How much less cancerous would fights be?

 

Then you mention the excessively punishing mechanics in the game, things like KFM's CC resist after successful counters, FM frost orbits (yes I'm counting that as well), BD and Des stun parry, BMs being able to block infinite attacks, Sins getting to evade while in stealth, and the blindness effect for sins escape skill. 

 

These are FUNDAMENTAL issues of the game's design, issues that have tilted not only myself, but countless other players. And if you think I just want these classes nerfed because I want easy rank points: I'm a FM main, and a Des main, both of which I have mentioned here. In fact, I'm a high ranking FM main, so it's not just a matter of wanting easy rank points, it's a matter of wanting fair rank points.

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5 minutes ago, ARC-1276 said:

That's the "Drop the mic" moment right there. Certain classes here might not be top tier, but they are such a pain to deal with in mid to low tier because the average player can't perform these crazy exploits to get past the cancerous mechanics. 

 

 

Furthermore: your idea of how PVP should work here is actually perfect, heck I didn't even realize that this was the core problem of the game's PVP system. The way PVP works is by baiting out someone else's escape, or by rendering them in a place where they can't use their escapes (IE FM wallbang, BD air combo, and worst of all WL air combo). I mean, imagine if we can break out of air combos and wallbangs. How much less cancerous would fights be?

 

Then you mention the excessively punishing mechanics in the game, things like KFM's CC resist after successful counters, FM frost orbits (yes I'm counting that as well), BD and Des stun parry, BMs being able to block infinite attacks, Sins getting to evade while in stealth, and the blindness effect for sins escape skill. 

 

These are FUNDAMENTAL issues of the game's design, issues that have tilted not only myself, but countless other players. And if you think I just want these classes nerfed because I want easy rank points: I'm a FM main, and a Des main, both of which I have mentioned here. In fact, I'm a high ranking FM main, so it's not just a matter of wanting easy rank points, it's a matter of wanting fair rank points.

This is what I was saying to the toxic bridge when the game first launched. However they were totally interested in the world championships.

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Kozuki   

Edit: Sorry. Should not post when I was sleepy, lol.

 

After re-reading the thread, here is my more-awake opinion:

 

-Japanese companies aim to go global right from the start. When Square Enix makes a Final Fantasy game, they already plan for the international launch of the game. And they have a lot of experience doing this. So does Atlus with Persona series, and many more.

 

-Korean companies cater strongly their own market. When their games come to Western, they just simply export the game with some changes to suit the Western players. However, since their games are for Korean and based on what Korean players have (top Internet infrastructure, strong tolerance to RNG and grinding...), it doesn't meet the preference of Westerners who do not share the same conditions and mindset. The case is even worse if it goes through a third-party publisher.

Edited by Kozuki

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Ujarac   
2 minutes ago, Kozuki said:

In short, you want to remove the uniqueness of BnS classes and make them into generic MMORPG classes that have been overused?

lol so you basically didn't even read his post. no he doesn't want them to be generic like other MMORPG's. what he wants is for the damn classes in bns to be more balanced. yeah they mite be less generic then other MMORPG's but them be less generic and having stupid broken OP skills for their classes clearly isn't helping their game and their pvp aspect of the game, seeing as how barely anyone does pvp and is barely doing pve now. the point is and has been stated by the OP their are many things wrong with the classes in bns that really need some changes and revamps if they really want people to enjoy their game. PvP in other MMO's was never as unbalanced as what bns is, tbh bns pvp is probably one of the most unbalanced MMO's for pvp with the stupid things classes can do and its a fact when you look at how much people complain about pvp and how their really isn't a pvp scene to their game anymore. nobody plays pvp, nobody does class pvp guides, and their barely any tournaments. but yeah I'll just end this right here and say the OP is 100% correct and NC either needs to seriously wake up and make some changes or else their game isn't gonna make it to 2019.  

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I think as far as pvp goes, ping is the main offender, poor class balance being the 2nd, and misleading advertisement being the 3rd.

 

 

Edited by Thicc Stoccpot

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The problem is that the devs need to stop balancing classes based on which class is winning tournaments in one region. Each region should be getting their own separate balance patches based on how the classes are performing in that region and not just because one skilled player is winning a tournament in KR.

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Fiana   

its you who not understand... each and everysingle class in this game is OP, even the worst class FM in pvp is have tons move to freeze and stun you

 

each and everyclass in this game can kill you in 1 combo other than FM and Summ ofcourse, that why escape skill is really important... use normal escape like q e ss f, to avoid basic combo, and use tab escape to resist air combo

proper use escape skill is more important than your ability to do damage to enemy,

 

pvp player really need good reaction speed & good ping, to even properly using their class in pvp.. that why this pvp game is not that popular in NA (west) since most player have 100-200 ping... and its imposisble to properly pvp with that ping

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Fiana   
6 minutes ago, Fiana said:

pvp player really need good reaction speed & good ping, to even properly using their class in pvp.. that why this pvp game is not that popular in NA (west) since most player have 100-200 ping... and its imposisble to properly pvp with that ping

this also my reason not doing any pvp right now... i have bad ping, its good enough for pve, but not enough for pvv

if they can adjust skill so high ping player can fight properly, then it'll become popular game 

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Nyaha   
6 hours ago, Virgil204 said:

I'm going to compare 2 of your classes to their counter parts in the west

Yea... and the idea to compare classes from different games that have different design and gameplay - didn't strike you as stupid?
Oh well let's see. In CS:GO you can shoot from assoult rifle without using iron sights with precision of a sniper. Now in PUBG for that amount of accuracy you will have to switch it to a single shoot and aim down sights. So... using your logic... CS:GO lost it's rank of the most popular shooter because it doesn't have mechanics of aiming down sight. Well i hope that CS:GO pro's will like the idea of changing to PUBG gunplay model... They also probably should get rid of the mechanic of buying your weapon at the start of a round and just have players to find their weapon on the level. After all you just have to make your game into parody of the more popular game for it to succeed... right? 
What? It doesn't suit the idea and game design of CS:GO?.. Pffhh... lmao... Who needs a design or ideas? Just copycat everything from the most popular game - that is a way to go! Am i right?!.. Mh?.. Am i right, Vrigil204?!..

 

-------

The game is failing to keep audience mainly because of:

 

- The grindy progression. Remember the times of 45lvl cap? How it was easy to be relevant? How low was the gear cap? How there was no whales? Or maybe you can remember the earlier time of 50lvl cap, when true scorpio was the best thing ever, when whales didn't rly stick out from the crowd, and casuals could stay relevant pretty easy?
Now compare it to what we have now. Where even for something like NS most of parties are asking for 1.1k ap and raven weapons. This is not a game for a casual crowd anymore. It's a whale fest.

 

- It didn't release on Steam. Why?.. Because NC soft will have to split the profit? And they don't consider the most popular selling platform for PC gamers as a decent way to promote their game for casual crowd? That's a shame... I saw other f2p projects going to steam and having a second life there.

 

- It's easy to exploit arena with alts for additional season reward, which leads to overflaw of the arena with alts of some high rank players, that are destroying low and mid tier players. Which leads to frustration of said players and abandoning of the arena.

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NightFer   

Funny statistic is that Blade and Soul is No2 in ranking of MMOs in Korea and No7 in the overall game chart. The west is just too spoiled with thousands of games that are not worth playing at all and not enough dedication from the playerbase.

 

Thats my 2 cents here.

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Poporo   

Btw about this topic. The PvP in BnS died a long time ago. Yes, even on Korean server. On all championships you can see the same players in 1vs1, 3vs3 it's always the same people. Did Koreans want to make it a real eSports game? Pff...nothing points to this) And I would say it started from WL class. WL was the first "new" class. A new goldmine for them. Of course they made it OP so people play it. And then they let this very class to win a championship. I would say starting from WL times they stopped to care about PvP balance at all. I don't say the balance did exist before WL but they at least tried to do smg. After that the priority was only to pull money and eSports idea became just an old dream of some guy who probably doesn't even work there anymore :D

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I've only found one link, and this probably is the popularity ranking (I don't know korean so i'm not sure). Still, this is better than nothing I guess. According to this site:

 

2018, January 3rd:         http://www.gamemeca.com/popup/ranking.php?scode=O

 

#1 is LoL I think (moba), #2 FIFA online 3 (soccer), #3 Overwatch (FPS), #4 Sudden attack (FPS), #5 Some FPS game, #6 Maplestory (2D side scrolling), #7 Dungeon fighter online (2D side scrolling), #8 Lineage II (MMORPG), #9 Starcraft (RTS), #10 Black Desert (MMORPG), #11 Diablo III (RPG), #12 Blade and Soul (MMORPG),.... #15 WoW... #22 Tera,... #27 FF XIV

 

So as far as MMORPG goes, counting both Maplestory and Dungeon Fighter Online, BnS is at #5 in terms of popularity, with WoW and FF XIV far behind. It's easy to understand why BnS ranks higher than WoW and FF XIV, since BnS is a Korean-made game, and made first and foremost for Koreans, whereas FF XIV and WoW are more or less typical western RPG, made for Western audience and not Koreans.

 

Although all three are MMORPG, I think the play style of BnS is vastly different from WoW's and FF XIV's. WoW and FF XIV are more along the line of traditional Western MMORPG, with slower combat (cast, wait, cast, wait, cast), whereas BnS is constant and instant spamming (cast cast cast cast cast nonstop). As far as pvp goes, I think BnS's gameplay has more in common with Fighting games like Tekken and Street Fighter than with your traditional Western MMORPG's (especially Tekken). Just go to Youtube and type: Tekken Juggle combo or Street Fighter juggle combo and you will understand what I mean. Please remember that juggling is a mechanic that has been around in these two series for a long time, and intendedly so.

 

Juggle combo in both Tekken and Street Fighter mean you hit your opponent in such a way that you deny your opponent of his control of his character. If your opponent is knocked off of his feet or sent flying, he needs to stand back up on the ground in order to regain control. Knowing this, you can keep punching or kicking him in a rhythm that prevents him from even touching the ground or standing up straight (thus the terms juggle), therefore making him unable to control his character while you strike him to death . 100 - 0 is entirely possible.

 

Chain CC and 100-0 combos that outright deny your opponent of his control in Blade and Soul is basically Street Fighter's and Tekken's juggle combo. You make sure your opponent cannot control his character, that he has to sit on this hands, while watching you dps him down. An evidence of the fact that the combat system of BnS is designed with this in mind is the 'trinket' button - the tab escape, or 1 or 3 depending on your class that can help you escape from the pinch. While one/two escape in every 45 seconds maybe too harsh at first, if you know how to use, you could even retaliate and win. A match can very well end in less than 15 seconds or could stretch out to minutes if the players know what they are doing. The depth of this kind of system is really significant, with very high skill ceiling - you have to master your chain CC & 100-0 combo in BnS, or master your juggle combos in Tekken and Street Fighter. The classes of BnS, therefore, at least PvP wise, are clearly designed around this idea of "juggling combo". And therefore, I don't think it's fair or right to compare BnS's classes and classes of WoW's and FF XIV's.

 

This system, while has depth, also has numerous drawbacks. One of the most significant is how frustrating it is to an average player who probably doesn't even know that such a thing as juggle even exist or possible. When BnS first came out in NA, many people complained that 100-0 combo is too harsh for a MMORPG, that it makes them feel really powerless and useless, that it takes away their right to control their characters, that one mistake and they are dead in 2 seconds. You can tell that they probably didn't know that the game was clearly meant to be this way, and the DEVs intended for PvP to be this punishing from the start. This one aspect, you can partially blame the trailers and promotion materials for not letting the players know this beforehand, and then let them get hit with the sledge hammer of reality later. Many players went in not expecting or unprepared for this kind of (hardcore) PvP combat system in a MMORPG. So yeah, they of course would get frustrated and angered by it. But it is by no means a bad system in my opinion. Not too newbie friendly? Yes. But bad? I don't think so.

 

*******

 

Now with all that said, class balance certainly leaves a lot to be desired, if not out right bad. Everybody knows how broken and unfair WL's air combo, or FM's wall bang, or DES's wall bang, or SIN and their numerous low cd CCs and so on at this point. Personally, I think every class in the game, if played right, can be annoying as hell. And if played really well, you can even overcome the imbalance between the classes to a degree. But yeah, that's just a small degree. Even #1 Bm in the world (Ming Cai) has trouble fighting Assassin in Vietnamese server -  he lost again and again, he said that BM was too weak compared to other classes. When he switched to DES, he instantly won against the said SIN players. Class imbalance is indeed very real. For avid PVP players, class imbalance and how NC kinda neglects that are the main reasons for them to stop playing. But then, the number of PVP players is nowhere near the number of PVE players I think.

 

For your average PVE Joe who isn't too hot on PvP (including me), what kills the arena is ping. Many players from many different countries play BnS NA (again, including me). So they would have different ping. Some has ping very high that they can't even do combos in the arena. They are in constant disadvantage. Coupled with the fact that they aren't that big on PVP to begin with, high Ping kills pretty much every reason for an average player to do arena.

 

So if I have to rank the reasons, I'd place ping first, class imbalance second.

 

 

Edited by Thicc Stoccpot

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7 hours ago, Kozuki said:

Edit: Sorry. Should not post when I was sleepy, lol.

 

After re-reading the thread, here is my more-awake opinion:

 

-Japanese companies aim to go global right from the start. When Square Enix makes a Final Fantasy game, they already plan for the international launch of the game. And they have a lot of experience doing this. So does Atlus with Persona series, and many more.

 

-Korean companies cater strongly their own market. When their games come to Western, they just simply export the game with some changes to suit the Western players. However, since their games are for Korean and based on what Korean players have (top Internet infrastructure, strong tolerance to RNG and grinding...), it doesn't meet the preference of Westerners who do not share the same conditions and mindset. The case is even worse if it goes through a third-party publisher.

This is the only post I'm going to fully respond too.

 

This post shows clearly why listening to this type of misunderstanding and lack of general knowledge is what caused your game to die

 

final fantasy 1 -6 took a very long time to realease in the West.. FACT

 

Why cos they were in the same place as Korea. Japan was once at the same point as Korea. However they successfully managed to make the journey to west cos their games while flashy had good underlining mechanics

 

Korean games will never be successful in the west cos all their games are actually broken.

 

The post above is written by someone who simply lacks knowledge about the history and dynamics of the gaming industry.

 

your forum is full of people like this. Therefore you get crap feed back

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Nyaha   
19 minutes ago, Thicc Stoccpot said:

When he switched to DES, he instantly won against the said SIN players. Class imbalance is indeed very real. For avid PVP players, class imbalance and how NC kinda neglects that are the main reasons for them to stop playing. But then, the number of PVP players is nowhere near the number of PVE players I think.

It's called rock-paper-scissors balance. You can not make so many different classes equal to each others. But you still can make a rough balance where one class has an advantage over another class, but also suffers more from a third class e.t.c.

That is why NCsoft is now promoting 3v3 fights more than 1v1 fights on their tournaments.

 

 

11 minutes ago, Virgil204 said:

This is the only post I'm going to fully respond too.

Of course. Because who wants to deal with reason, when you can just go harder on your fantasy.
And because a few jap games succeeded in west, now you are happily assume that Japan produces games specifically for west market. What a naivete...

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Nyaha   
39 minutes ago, Thicc Stoccpot said:

For your average PVE Joe who isn't too hot on PvP (including me), what kills the arena is ping. Many players from many different countries play BnS NA (again, including me). So they would have different ping. Some has ping very high that they can't even do combos in the arena. They are in constant disadvantage. Coupled with the fact that they aren't that big on PVP to begin with, high Ping kills pretty much every reason for an average player to do arena.

There is no fix for your ping. If they will make calculation run on the client side - it will be very easy to abuse that system by cheats.

So. Even if ping problems are legit - it can't be fixed, and you can't blame game for it. It's your unfortuned geographic location.


What they CAN fix - are those damn crashes. At the start game was runing solid as stone. 0 crashes for months... Even when i fight that blackwirm, with tones of ppl and like 2-3 fps. 0 crashes. And then they begun to experiment with those protection software.. And now game can crash anytime. And in popular hub zones it crashes each 20 minutes or so.

Edited by Nyaha

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Kyrrua   
il y a 7 minutes, Nyaha a dit :

Of course. Because who wants to deal with reason, when you can just go harder on your fantasy.

And because a few jap games succeeded in west, now you are happily assume that Japan produces games specifically for west market. What a naivete...

I think what he meant wasn't the fact that japan succeeded to export into west. But rather that the system of their games, even if they don't create it for the purpose to export it to begin with is something which quality appeal to everyone no matter their country.

 

In short before even thinking about exporting it, their game has already the potential to be a good game for everyone in the world, then they decide to change it and either focus their own country or export it.

 

Meanwhile, korea creates games almost only for their market, but that doesn't mean they create a good game overrall, it just mean the game they create appal only to koreans.

Which also means koreans tastes in term of gaming isn't the same as a worldwide taste, and isn't the best either.

 

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KzE   

Ohhh, the Korea vs West. Koreans pay for "progression" more, than the rest of the World together. Sure they have no problem with grind.

Edited by KzE

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Statler   
vor 11 Stunden schrieb Virgil204:

1. Has a pet that has high defence, Grapples, and extended block and high damag
2. summoner has stealth
3. summoner can swap places with pet if you manage to catch the summoner reseting the game to catch him
4 .summoner can also do alot of damage
5. pet has a lot of stuns
6. summoner has a lot of stuns

Your talking about Sum in BnS?

Sorry dude but do you realy know the Summoner Class in BnS?

 

1. its quite hard to kill the cat, sure, but the cat deals high dmg? Heal of most classes is higher than the dmg the cat can deal xD
2. Sum has stealth, yes for sure but only when you hit Sums Seed Shroud. Therefore Sum has no abillity to block meele attacks. 

3. Sum can swap place with with pet, wl can do this too but most time its pretty usless against meele classes

4. Dmg of a sum depends on gear but i never saw any sum oneshooting 1 or more players like the gunner or WL can do (at least on 6vs6).

5. Cat has 1 doublestun, 1 (double)Knockdown (DoubleKD only with secret technic), 1 Daze, 1 Knockup when target is stunned / dazed

6. Sum without the Cat has exactly on CC, KD or Daze but no Stun. Another KD is only avaialable on breaking defense what is quite rare. 

So overall a Sum without a Cat is pretty helpless.

 

You can expand the list to any other class, every class has some advantage over other classes.

 

vor 10 Stunden schrieb Kenms:

yeah, assassin and summoner are my nightmare in pvp. they alway hide in steath and cat, i stand still and cant do anything except letting them kill me fast to finish the match, Blade dancer too, they spin me by a air combo until dead, i wonder how can win when i fight with Sin Sum Or BD while i cant see and make any dmg to them. I said goodbye pvp until ncsoft really change the balance of classes. thank you. sorry my bad english. Im playing Warlock.

Realy? thats from one of the Onshot classes with aircombo of death, best joke ever xD

- Dont block the cat and it wont sit on

- Dont hit Sums Seed Shroud and Sum wont get in hide

- Use you sanctum and you cant get cc'ed or targeted, stun Sum and use your aricombo of death.

Any WL that can play his class can be a nightmare for most classes.  

 

When i start my Sum, i have killed everyone on my way while leveling, even people who are a few level above me. On battlefield and even arena the Sum is hard to play cause most people have learned how to counter a sum.

 

 

 


 

 

 

 

 

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Kyrrua   

Can we all agree on the fact that we are only talking about arena pvp and not about outdoor pvp and 6v6 which are just pure PVE ?

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1 hour ago, Nyaha said:

There is no fix for your ping. If they will make calculation run on the client side - it will be very easy to abuse that system by cheats.

So. Even if ping problems are legit - it can't be fixed, and you can't blame game for it. It's your unfortuned geographic location.

Don't worry, I'm not blaming the game for my ping. It's nobody's fault. I was just trying to explain that ping contributes probably the largest reason to why arena is pretty much dead as this point. Because it alienates so many people from it.

 

As for the whole KR vs. the West. Yeah, it's no surprise that BnS - which is grindy and RNG-dependent doesn't do too well at the West. Again, different market, different audience. NC should have adjusted the game to suit the Western market better. I hope they learn it with this game so that they can improve upon future releases (if they want to port other games to the Western market that is.)

 

One thing I think many people are misunderstanding is that they mistake punishing mechanics for class imbalance. For example:

 

- KFM and their (seemingly) infinite resist: You must not hit a KFM when he's Q E or Block because he'll get agility buff after 3 times he resists, and when he has agility buff he'll evade all of your stuffs. This is not class imbalance, this is punishing mechanics. Well, learn how not to hit into his resists then. You must learn when and how NOT to hit a KFM, and to seize the open window for dps. If you keep spamming skills without care, then you can't really complain when he keeps on resisting or evading all your stuffs. A KFM Spamming block? You have guard break skills don't you? Or skills that can penetrate defense, right? Yeah, to land a guard break you may need good ping, so that's a ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤, but then again it's not a class imbalance.

 

- Summoners and their cats. Are they annoying? Yes, and probably intendedly so. But you know what? It's not really class imbalance. Sure, summoner is such a noob stomp class that it is nothing strange that this class gains so much hatred from the average players. However, with a bit of knowledge as to how the cat and summoner's skills work, and a bit of strong nerves (because summoners are really annoying and they can do really big damage that would scare you off) you will be able to over come. Now as for the hiding behind the cat, taking advantage of the lock on aiming system... That's a ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ain't it? The heal too, that's also a ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤. But the general consensus is that Summoner isn't OP (this title is reserved for WL SIN BD DES FM.)

 

- BM. He spamming block? Where's your guard break skills? Or where's defense penetrating skills? - I could name SF's leg sweep 3 for one, or BD soaring falcon 1 or phantom grip 4 or V, or DES blitz 1... Or you can just run behind him and attack from behind... BM block spam is not class imbalance, it's not even punishing like KFM's skills...

 

- SF... Well I don't think there's anyone complaining that SF is OP these days. The only thing SF has going for it is the pretty strong heal. Well, from what i've heard, SF isn't super duper weak, the class flows really well and has a ton of resists. It's just weak compared to meta classes. And yeah, not being able to mix element sucks.

 

- GUN... Well I don't even know anything about this class. Tab burst is surely broken in 6v6 - but that's 6v6 where gears aren't equalized. In arena I think GUN ain't that strong either. If anything, GUN probably falls along the line of noob stomp class - like SUM.

 

Now we move to the top 5, these top 5 are so much stronger than other classes that yeah, from this point on I think it can be called 'class imbalance"

 

- Fm: Wall bang is broken for one - the fact that you can't even tab out of it makes the class imbalance. Another thing is frost orbs. They are punishing mechanics, but probably too punishing when a FM already has basically 2 tab escape and short cd Q E i frames. Also, ice tab and ice V frost sheath...


- BD: Spin is imbalanced in that it makes BD immune to stun daze knock back. If you are still getting deflected by BD's spin, then you gotta time your attacks better - stun deflect isn't imba, it's a punishing mechanic for players who spam without thinking. 2 aerial combos with long animation, which are god like when a BD wants to stall for CD. Then many short cool down CCs too. Then 2 invincibility bubble with not too long cool down. The class reeks of imbalance. 

 

-  DES, same with BD as far as spin goes. Also has a lot of CC, Emberstomp 4 resists CC, Persistence E resists CC, Stone shield heals like nuts cracking. And last but not least, red spin wall bang inescapeable. Again, imba

 

- WL, 100-0 untab-able air combo, 2 escapes and one anti CC/targeting (sanctum) that can be reset with time distortion. I mean, it's top broken material right here.

 

- SIN, Too many short cd CCs, evasion bonus during stealth -  these two things make sin imba. Time out SINs who hit and run are annoying as hell - this is more of a normal player thing. I don't see many time out SINs in pro matches though. ALso, the flash bang during sin escape in my opinion, is not class imbalance, it's a punishing mechanic. Other classes have tab daze, then sin has tab blind. It's only fair game. You just have to predict when your SiN opponent would use his tab escape to block or dodge it.

 

These are my 2 cents. 

Edited by Thicc Stoccpot

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