Reason why your game failed in the West

[FrozenB]

43 minutes ago, Statler said:

Your talking about Sum in BnS?

Sorry dude but do you realy know the Summoner Class in BnS?

 

1. its quite hard to kill the cat, sure, but the cat deals high dmg? Heal of most classes is higher than the dmg the cat can deal xD
2. Sum has stealth, yes for sure but only when you hit Sums Seed Shroud. Therefore Sum has no abillity to block meele attacks. 

3. Sum can swap place with with pet, wl can do this too but most time its pretty usless against meele classes

4. Dmg of a sum depends on gear but i never saw any sum oneshooting 1 or more players like the gunner or WL can do (at least on 6vs6).

5. Cat has 1 doublestun, 1 (double)Knockdown (DoubleKD only with secret technic), 1 Daze, 1 Knockup when target is stunned / dazed

6. Sum without the Cat has exactly on CC, KD or Daze but no Stun. Another KD is only avaialable on breaking defense what is quite rare. 

So overall a Sum without a Cat is pretty helpless.

 

You can expand the list to any other class, every class has some advantage over other classes.

 

Realy? thats from one of the Onshot classes with aircombo of death, best joke ever xD

- Dont block the cat and it wont sit on

- Dont hit Sums Seed Shroud and Sum wont get in hide

- Use you sanctum and you cant get cc'ed or targeted, stun Sum and use your aricombo of death.

Any WL that can play his class can be a nightmare for most classes.  

 

When i start my Sum, i have killed everyone on my way while leveling, even people who are a few level above me. On battlefield and even arena the Sum is hard to play cause most people have learned how to counter a sum.

 

1. The cat doesn't do much damage, but with their CCs. Summoner is the only class in this game who can counter air combo (using their cat to CC enemies while they are doing air combo on your summoner.)

2. Yes, I agree that if you hit into summoner's counter stealth, then it is your own fault. It is just like you hit into sin's counter stealth.

3. Actually, swap is useless against range player only. Swap is useful to against melee as it can daze/kd (i forgot which) melee if they stay within 3m from summoner and don't iframe it.

4. In 6v6, summoners don't have 1 hit combo, but they rely on continuous consistent damage. For most of the summoners in gold rank or above, they hit like a truck/train. If you run out of projectile protection or iframes, you are just a dead meat. Also, gunner rely on their bullet storm (tab) and unload (F) and WL reply on their air combo. Different class = different style. Well...we all know gunner is broken right now.

5/6. That many CCs are not enough? How many CCs do summoner have by itself? That's why in 6v6, people always aim for the cats first. However, even the cats are dead, the summoners can still survive if they are smart and know how to use their counter stealth efficiently and run away to re-summon the cat.

 

 

[Statler]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb FrozenB:

5/6. That many CCs are not enough? How many CCs do summoner have by itself? That's why in 6v6, people always aim for the cats first. However, even the cats are dead, the summoners can still survive if they are smart and know how to use their counter stealth efficiently and run away to re-summon the cat.

Well i never said, there are to less CCs for the sum.

The sum itself have one CC without the cat, KD or Daze (depends on what choosen on skilltree) and another KD only available on breaking the defense.

And well, when you let a sum escape and let him cry to resummon the cat its your own fault ;)

Im still surprised, how many people let me escape to summon my cat ^^

Best ever, 5 ppl around me where fighting, no one cared about me summoning my cat XD

 

 

 

[FrozenB]

12 minutes ago, Statler said:

Well i never said, there are to less CCs for the sum.

The sum itself have one CC without the cat, KD or Daze (depends on what choosen on skilltree) and another KD only available on breaking the defense.

And well, when you let a sum escape and let him cry to resummon the cat its your own fault ;)

Im still surprised, how many people let me escape to summon my cat ^^

Best ever, 5 ppl around me where fighting, no one cared about me summoning my cat XD

 

 

 

That's why 6v6 is different than arena. Probably they have to deal with your other teammates while you were summoning your cat at the corner of the map.

[Nyaha]

43 minutes ago, Thicc Stoccpot said:

I was just trying to explain that ping contributes probably the largest reason to why arena is pretty much dead as this point. Because it alienates so many people from it.

Most of players in Europe have good enough connection. So it's not the reason why arena is dying.

As i said - arena is abandoned because there are too many alts of high tier players that's just farming HM tokens there. I can't get even 5 fights in silver rank without stumbling on an alt of some dude from top 50, that will destroy my face without even giving a sweat. I was initially charmed buy PvP in this game but now i am simply avoiding the arena. Because of those high tier players. I usually could get to something like 1650-1680 raiting, but now it's a pain to even fight in 1500+ raiting. There is no more place for casual pvp in the arena. Because of those alts. That is the main problem as i see it. They should only allow one season reward per account for arena. Also they should make lower tiers reward bigger and the brackets wider (not only top 300, but top 5000 like it is for TOI and other pve stuff), with two-months seasons a few additional "free" HM tokens are not going to ruin theire whale economy. But that will disencourage arena alts, and may reignite interest in arena for casuals.

 

58 minutes ago, Thicc Stoccpot said:

WL, 100-0 untab-able air combo, 2 escapes and one anti CC/targeting (sanctum) that can be reset with time distortion. I mean, it's top broken material right here.

you can only do 100-0 if you are using oblitiration (that means no time distortion) and got a perfect combo on the opponent that doesn't have escape. You can not do 100-0 otherwise. Now it's more like 40-50% per air combo at most. And there are not many cc that alow WL to even do damage + they are on a high cd. So vs opponent, that knows what he is doing and can predict a few key skils - warlock is a sitting duck.

And because of those infamous ari combos, now everyone knows how to deal with WLs. It's in fact a pain to play wl now. I hope they will change a lot of skills in some next patch, so everyone will be forced to learn how to play from scratch. I don't even care if it means that WL will become worse. I just want to not being so easily countered by almost anyone, because it's so easy to read warlock's next move. It's just too straightforward. You can only do damage when enemy is stunned or air, and you only have 2 stuns and 1 reliable air launcher (+2 situational and unreliable), and 1 daze. And everything has cooldown of 30+ sec. You missed that one stun? And couldn't get an untabable f+q+2 launch? You are dead.
Not saying that WL is weak. But his power is overrated. And everyone already learned how to counter him. Just look at the ranking. There not many gold WLs.

[FrozenB]

14 minutes ago, Nyaha said:

Most of players in Europe have good enough connection. So it's not the reason why arena is dying.

As i said - arena is abandoned because there are too many alts of high tier players that's just farming HM tokens there. I can't get even 5 fights in silver rank without stumbling on an alt of some dude from top 50, that will destroy my face without even giving a sweat. I was initially charmed buy PvP in this game but now i am simply avoiding the arena. Because of those high tier players. I usually could get to something like 1650-1680 raiting, but now it's a pain to even fight in 1500+ raiting. There is no more place for casual pvp in the arena. Because of those alts. That is the main problem as i see it. They should only allow one season reward per account for arena. Also they should make lower tiers reward bigger and the brackets wider (not only top 300, but top 5000 like it is for TOI and other pve stuff), with two-months seasons a few additional "free" HM tokens are not going to ruin theire whale economy. But that will disencourage arena alts, and may reignite interest in arena for casuals.

 

I agree that the seasons reward should be only per account (giving to the highest rank among all the character in a single account), not per character. Same goes for TOI or outlaw or F20 floor rank.

[Nyaha]

3 hours ago, Kyrrua said:

Meanwhile, korea creates games almost only for their market, but that doesn't mean they create a good game overrall, it just mean the game they create appal only to koreans.

Which also means koreans tastes in term of gaming isn't the same as a worldwide taste, and isn't the best either.

The only thing that korean mmo's are doing noticeably differently is that all their games are girnd-fests. But the topic starter didn't talk about that, he was all about those sins and summs and... whatever class balance shenanigans. And that thing is just not the case. The way how classes are played in BNS is unique to BNS. I mean - Linage2 was an NCsoft korean mmo, and beside all the grind, it was just like your typical western mmo game.

[SayhaSeer]

14 hours ago, Kenms said:

yeah, assassin and summoner are my nightmare in pvp. they alway hide in steath and cat, i stand still and cant do anything except letting them kill me fast to finish the match, Blade dancer too, they spin me by a air combo until dead, i wonder how can win when i fight with Sin Sum Or BD while i cant see and make any dmg to them. I said goodbye pvp until ncsoft really change the balance of classes. thank you. sorry my bad english. Im playing Warlock.

You said Good Bye to PvP because your horrible with your class. I play warlock too, Sin/Summoner/Destro/BD is the easiest classes to fight against, Because you can go brainless mode to kill them... While Sin is slower to kill then the rest of 3, but he is also easy, WHEN you know what your doing. and know other classes basic skills and know what to waste before going full dps.. on them. Just learn your class, It makes me laugh reading that you complain about something so easy to defeat. PvP is not for everyone, And by the look, it's definetely not for you.

[Zekken]

1 hour ago, Nyaha said:

you can only do 100-0 if you are using oblitiration (that means no time distortion) and got a perfect combo on the opponent that doesn't have escape. You can not do 100-0 otherwise. Now it's more like 40-50% per air combo at most. And there are not many cc that alow WL to even do damage + they are on a high cd. So vs opponent, that knows what he is doing and can predict a few key skils - warlock is a sitting duck.

And because of those infamous ari combos, now everyone knows how to deal with WLs. It's in fact a pain to play wl now. I hope they will change a lot of skills in some next patch, so everyone will be forced to learn how to play from scratch. I don't even care if it means that WL will become worse. I just want to not being so easily countered by almost anyone, because it's so easy to read warlock's next move. It's just too straightforward. You can only do damage when enemy is stunned or air, and you only have 2 stuns and 1 reliable air launcher (+2 situational and unreliable), and 1 daze. And everything has cooldown of 30+ sec. You missed that one stun? And couldn't get an untabable f+q+2 launch? You are dead.
Not saying that WL is weak. But his power is overrated. And everyone already learned how to counter him. Just look at the ranking. There not many gold WLs.

WL is undoubtedly still one of the strongest classes in PvP.  While their aerial damage got nerfed, 40-50% untabbable damage is still quite substantial.  Pair that ridiculous damage with being able to reset key skills on command and you’ve created a beast of a class for PvP.  Who cares about long cool downs when you can reset them?

 

Some of the current best players on the server still have issues with WLs and you say that everyone has them figured out?

 

WLs are still a key component in building a competitive 3v3 tournament team.  I don’t recall any team making it to the finals at Worlds that did not have a WL on it since the format was changed.  I don’t think you can make a claim for any other class in the game being as important as WL for competitive 3v3.

 

I’d take the rankings these days with a grain of salt.  There aren’t many people participating in PvP these days.  Look at any of the class leaderboards and you’ll see that many other class boards are relatively small too.  Less gold WL players does not prove that the class isn’t overpowered.  There are others variables that could factor into those results such as PvP players not wanting to play overpowered classes or classes seen as overpowered by the masses.  It could also be because people just don’t like playing WL in general.

 

Disregard the leaderboards and base judgement purely on the WL toolset.  It’s hard to deny that WL isn’t exceptionally strong in the current patch.

[Kyrrua]

world championship in figures is simple.

- WL on almost all team comp.

- 3 of the 4 teams to make it to semi were the perfect meta comp WL DES SIN

 

Only ways of victory

- Warlock air combo

- Wallbang from DES/FM

 

And of course the only 3 team to have both of these conditions of victory were in semi & finals.

That was SO BORING in semi, even the casters started to meme "warlock coming through" or "the first to wallbang or aerial wins the fight".

That is how the world pvp of bns is now, just get the perfect meta comp wih the 2 major ways of victory  and you are a finalist.

Bns esport is dead, theres like only 1k people watching the competition, and even the rewards comes from the whales who are lured behind lootboxes in order to pay their own tournament (which they are not even watching). But still, no one talks about it, no tv, no stream, nothing.  Only a post on the main site and on twitter viewed by 14 people.

And we've not talked about participants yet, there like 6 to 8 teams active in EU and 5 teams at best in NA, always the fcking same top players since arena is dead.

 

I'm still amaze that the korean dev don't do shit about balance when seing that wallbang was utterly abused during the world tournament. STILL NO BALANCE PATCH. It wasn't even about skill anymore, I was disguested about that so called "skilled based game" becoming a "combo breaker abuse game".

On a side note, even top pve players stopped the game, they made a letter saying that NC doesn't give a fck about them and their useful feedback. So if they already don't care about their biggest part of income, aka super end game whales, I think pvp is a grain of salt for them.

[Ren36]

4 hours ago, Thicc Stoccpot said:

- SIN, Too many short cd CCs, evasion bonus during stealth -  these two things make sin imba. Time out SINs who hit and run are annoying as hell - this is more of a normal player thing. I don't see many time out SINs in pro matches though. ALso, the flash bang during sin escape in my opinion, is not class imbalance, it's a punishing mechanic. Other classes have tab daze, then sin has tab blind. It's only fair game. You just have to predict when your SiN opponent would use his tab escape to block or dodge it.

 

These are my 2 cents. 

It´s not about class or rank, it depends on the week, before season ends.
Face a Sin 2 weeks into the season and he will chase you to the other side of the arena. Face the same Sin 1week before the season ends he will start running for his money, regardless of class.
As for "top" players, people who fight for fame and people who fight for fun have different means to aquire their ranks.
Until last season enough evidence has been finally provided, in form of chatlogs, login, pictures, videos and IPs, that in fact more than 50% of the top ranks of each class are Win-Trader, which is the reason for the recent "3v3 ranking changes".
Or did you think NCSoft would have done so mid-season out of a whim?

[Nyaha]

37 minutes ago, Kyrrua said:

Bns esport is dead, theres like only 1k people watching the competition, and even the rewards comes from the whales who are lured behind lootboxes in order to pay their own tournament (which they are not even watching). But still, no one talks about it, no tv, no stream, nothing.  Only a post on the main site and on twitter viewed by 14 people.

So what?.. It's a niche game, that has it's small niche community. Do you think that if they would nerf warlock sin and dest - it would make BNS massively popular in esport? Well, they are probably gonna to shift the balance for the next tournament, so we will be able to see how it  will play out.
But i can most safely bet - nothing will change in turms of the game popularity. The way they can make game more popular - is to significantly reduce the grind, and throw it on Steam, + make the arena great again with change to the season rewards so they are only apply to one character per account.
The change in class balance - is just a small berry on a cake, that is not change overall game appeal. As you said - there not many ppl that are massively invested in bns as in an esport title. Me personally - i watched the world tournament, it was fun, but it is still just a small bit of fun on a side. I am much more interested in more casual part of pvp. And going on arena i want to just have fun, and not to become the greatest pvp champion ever. So i want pvp arena to be popular in circles of same casuals as i am. So we would have a lively arena where casuals can occupy silver-gold, and more hardcore players will be fighting agains the same hardcore players on plat-diamond ranks. And not like now, when you can go vs some bd 46lvl on 1500 rank that will destroy your face in matter of seconds, because it's actually an alt of some top 50 player.

[Grimoir]

21 hours ago, Virgil204 said:

Summoner here

as a pet that has high defence, Grapples, and extended block and high damage

summoner has stealth

summoner can swap places with pet if you manage to catch the summoner reseting the game to catch him

summoner can also do alot of damage

pet has a lot of stuns

summoner has a lot of stuns

 

 

High defense? in pvp cat is dead in like under 1 second in 6v6, in 1v1 if you try to go for the cat you are deeply stupid.

Cat has near to 0 damage and grapple has 24 second cooldown and can be escaped from.

 

Cat place swap is not reliable since all it takes is 1 hit to cancel it.

"summoner can do a lot of damage" and which class cant?

 

Summoner has a lot of stuns? like LOL summoner doesnt have any stuns, cat has the only stun a summoner has.

Learn to play the game first before you make any comments. "lots of stuns"....still laughing xD

[Kozuki]

17 hours ago, Virgil204 said:

This is the only post I'm going to fully respond too.

 

This post shows clearly why listening to this type of misunderstanding and lack of general knowledge is what caused your game to die

 

final fantasy 1 -6 took a very long time to realease in the West.. FACT

 

Why cos they were in the same place as Korea. Japan was once at the same point as Korea. However they successfully managed to make the journey to west cos their games while flashy had good underlining mechanics

 

Korean games will never be successful in the west cos all their games are actually broken.

 

The post above is written by someone who simply lacks knowledge about the history and dynamics of the gaming industry.

 

your forum is full of people like this. Therefore you get crap feed back

 

 

And if you want to talk about "crap feedback", you have some too.

 

-You went on and on about the differences of class styles between BnS/WoW/FF. For what purpose? Do BnS classes have be like WoW/FF, where sin must move slowly during stealth, Summoner must not have stealth, have different types of pets (well, I certainly want this, though. More fun that way), and must have less CCs? For what purpose? Telling NCSoft that they should turn what BnS' class uniqueness to be like WoW or FF? Then maybe I should play WoW and FF instead, cuz BnS would have turned into their clones, "trying to bring their classes to the standard of MMOs", like you have said.

 

-You got it all wrong about Summoner, showing that you have no ideas about how the class work. Here is some bust myth:

+Has a pet that has high defence, Grapples, and extended block and high damage

=> Cat is extremely squishy if you catch it off guard in 1v1 and 3v3. In 6v6, if it doesn't curl to reduce damage, it vaporizes. Some classes can even kill it during its curl, despite of having 90% damage reduction

=> Cat has grab, but only when you get CCed or spam defensive skills. The first requires you to be smart and react fast to avoid being grab. The latter is a punishment for classes that spam blocks, like BM, WL who think it is their winning ticket. Also, there are classes with grab-break, if you don't know.

=> You know there are skill that ignore block, right?

=> High damage? Lolwut? Cat and Thrall has the most pitiful offensive stat in this game.

 

+summoner has stealth

=> Yeah, they have stealth. But only when you hit into their counter or they use their tab. The first proves that you suck to trigger summoner's stealth. The latter means they are out of tab and you can burst them now.

 

+summoner can swap places with pet if you manage to catch the summoner reseting the game to catch him

=> they can swap place, if you let them do so. Summoner can only swap if:

-They are knocked down

-Nothing thing hitting them during the swap animation. Or they will get knocked down again.

 

+summoner can also do alot of damage

=> which classes does not do a lot of damage with proper gear or catch opponent out of tab? In PvE, Summoner is one of the bottom DPS tier, cuz they don't grow a lot stronger during BT gear. Only with top-end VT gear, they shine better.

 

+pet has a lot of stuns

=> Pet only have a stun, a knockdown and a daze. They can knockback you if you try to grab them, but has long cooldown and can be grabbed again. And for your information, Pet has some problem with how clunky they execute their skill. Sometimes, they just don't listen

+summoner has a lot of stuns

=> Summoner itself only has a Daze/Knockdown without the cat. It can knockdown with an iframe skill, but only with the cat alive.

 

-You write thing that looks big. But in the end, it is empty and nothing constructive about it. Nothing will be solved, cuz you are talking about the whole gaming industry of Korea, not just BnS or NCWest. The fact that NCWest does not bankrupt yet, it means they are still doing well.

 

=> Since your knowledge is full of holes and not very well thought like this, do you think you can offer the best and reliable feedback here?

 

If you have time checking other games to see if the grass is greener and ponder about macro things through wikipedia surfting, maybe you should gather more knowledge about how this game works, and contribute more constructive feedback that can actually help the game.

17 hours ago, Nyaha said:

It's called rock-paper-scissors balance. You can not make so many different classes equal to each others. But you still can make a rough balance where one class has an advantage over another class, but also suffers more from a third class e.t.c.

That is why NCsoft is now promoting 3v3 fights more than 1v1 fights on their tournaments.

 

 

Of course. Because who wants to deal with reason, when you can just go harder on your fantasy.
And because a few jap games succeeded in west, now you are happily assume that Japan produces games specifically for west market. What a naivete...

Don't need to act aggressive for no reason, lol. If you wonder why BnS community is so toxic, don't be one of them.

[Kyrrua]

Il y a 11 heures, Nyaha a dit :

So what?.. It's a niche game, that has it's small niche community. Do you think that if they would nerf warlock sin and dest - it would make BNS massively popular in esport? Well, they are probably gonna to shift the balance for the next tournament, so we will be able to see how it  will play out.
But i can most safely bet - nothing will change in turms of the game popularity. The way they can make game more popular - is to significantly reduce the grind, and throw it on Steam, + make the arena great again with change to the season rewards so they are only apply to one character per account.
The change in class balance - is just a small berry on a cake, that is not change overall game appeal.

Why do you act like I said that class imbalance makes the game less popular ? Honestly maybe, maybe not but that is just one of the numerous reasons why people are seduced to pvp.

No, what makes the game less popular is the poor management and the poor communication both between players and on the internet.

I'm blaming ncswest for the poor popularity here.

But I'm only blaming NCkr for the imbalance for existing players because the only devs are korean and that everyone would have expected a huge balance change after seing the world championship abuse of aerial & wallbang. Which turned the semi to finals stream to a boring aerial/wallbang fest. The qualifiers were definately more fun since there was a lot of different compositions but as the tourny was going on the aerial/wallbang pattern dominated.

 

And also being a niche game doesn't explain why a game isn't popular. Altho I don't know which "niche" you are talking about for bns. It is like every other mmorpg, only the gameplay changes but that doesn't make it a niche game.

We got 1k viewer at best for worlds and 200 for little tournys because the game pvp isn't popular, that's all.

If they we'ren't so lazy, the game would be as popular as the launch (ye I know a bit less) they just didn't invest because they want us to catch up before investing money. Why invest on optimization before we catch up ? why implement arena spectator WHICH WS HIGHLY NEEDED FROM THE START and which will cost us money if we will have it in 1 year ?

That is how they think. If they had backed the community sooner like Impbns, legion etc. which was itself creating tournaments to make the game well known we wouldn't be in this dead arena state.

 

A problem of management & communication on ncwest part.

A problem of game core & investment on nckorea part.

We can just resume this whole bns probleme by the word "investment" As long as there's no investment from ncsoft, don't expect the game to change. They are still getting a lot of money from whales so its only a matter of "if we want to make things right" rather than "we're losing money, we have to do smth quick!"

[Nyaha]

9 hours ago, Grimoir said:

"summoner can do a lot of damage" and which class cant?

The problem with summ is that he can do a lot of damage anytime anywhere. What i mean - it does not have a pre requirements for doing a lot of damage in pvp. He can just burst you down without any cc - because you can't block vs summ - he will quickly guardbreak you. So his "cheap damage" is not "cheap" enough. Summoner needs a remade in skills, so he wouldn't be able to do so much quick cheap damage, but will gain better abilities to combo. So it will actually required to play skillfully using combo cc's and not simply facerolling the keyboard. So summoner should become harder to play but with more potential in high skill matches. That is even what one of the korean pro's told about.

 

 

[Statler]

vor 48 Minuten schrieb Nyaha:

The problem with summ is that he can do a lot of damage anytime anywhere. What i mean - it does not have a pre requirements for doing a lot of damage in pvp. He can just burst you down without any cc - because you can't block vs summ - he will quickly guardbreak you. So his "cheap damage" is not "cheap" enough. Summoner needs a remade in skills, so he wouldn't be able to do so much quick cheap damage, but will gain better abilities to combo. So it will actually required to play skillfully using combo cc's and not simply facerolling the keyboard. So summoner should become harder to play but with more potential in high skill matches. That is even what one of the korean pro's told about.

Wait what? Your talking about Summoner?

To deal DMG the Sum, especialy wind Sum needs a lot of fokus. Ok there are some skills that help you gain and keep fokus. 

But its still hard to keep fokus up sometimes.

 

Gunner hits tab and simply oneshot everything close enough to him.

Gunner simply hit LMB and has full "fokus" without the need of recovering it with some other skills or by hitting a target.

I saw gunner oneshooting a whole team on battlefield breaking through every resist / defence skill like projectile protection of FM/BM/Sum or the 5 second/5xdmg resist skill of Sum/SF without even using the ultimate skill

I saw a gunner that oneshot my curled up cat with 170k HP and 90% damage reduction

 

...and you complain about quick, cheap damage of a summoner?

LOL

 

 

 

[Nyaha]

8 minutes ago, Statler said:

I saw a gunner

While you "saw" something on a side. I actually have a summ, have a gunner, i have all the classes (except destro), and i played em all in pvp for at least some amount.
Your comparisons to gunner are simply laughable. Get a gunner and go to arena. Get rect there a few dozens times, and then tell me more about the "OP" gunner.
BG is not considered by me as pvp. I don't care what is going on there. It's just a moonstones farming place and a whale fest. If you are talking about pvp - you are talking about the arena and only arena.

[Kyrrua]

il y a 28 minutes, Statler a dit :

Wait what? Your talking about Summoner?

To deal DMG the Sum, especialy wind Sum needs a lot of fokus. Ok there are some skills that help you gain and keep fokus. 

But its still hard to keep fokus up sometimes.

 

Gunner hits tab and simply oneshot everything close enough to him.

Gunner simply hit LMB and has full "fokus" without the need of recovering it with some other skills or by hitting a target.

I saw gunner oneshooting a whole team on battlefield breaking through every resist / defence skill like projectile protection of FM/BM/Sum or the 5 second/5xdmg resist skill of Sum/SF without even using the ultimate skill

I saw a gunner that oneshot my curled up cat with 170k HP and 90% damage reduction

 

...and you complain about quick, cheap damage of a summoner?

LOL

 

 

 

I may seem repetitive but who cares about 6v6? who cares about pve ?

 

We're only talking about pvp & esport here, your post is irrelevant. 6v6 is straight pve.

[Grimoir]

22 hours ago, Nyaha said:

The problem with summ is that he can do a lot of damage anytime anywhere. What i mean - it does not have a pre requirements for doing a lot of damage in pvp. He can just burst you down without any cc - because you can't block vs summ - he will quickly guardbreak you. So his "cheap damage" is not "cheap" enough. Summoner needs a remade in skills, so he wouldn't be able to do so much quick cheap damage, but will gain better abilities to combo. So it will actually required to play skillfully using combo cc's and not simply facerolling the keyboard. So summoner should become harder to play but with more potential in high skill matches. That is even what one of the korean pro's told about.

 

 

Actually no, it takesa lot of mindgames to win as summoner , expecially in 1v1. you can ask any of the actual pvp players and they will upright tell you summoners are one of their easiest match-ups.

And i am sorry but if you really let a summ burst you down in arena then you must really be bad lol

[Kyrrua]

il y a une heure, Grimoir a dit :

Actually no, it takesa lot of mindgames to win as summoner , expecially in 1v1. you can ask any of the actual pvp players and they will upright tell you summoners are one of their easiest match-ups.

And i am sorry but if you really let a summ burst you down in arena then you must really be bad lol

Here you are talking about top players which are 0.5% of the population in bns.

At this point only the rock paper scissors rule applies. Which also mean that for a top summoner player "(insert class here) are one of their easiest match-ups" too.

 

Which means aside from reaching top level of play, you are stupidly strong as a summoner even if you play with one hand.

 

That is also what the pro says above on the video. From start summoner is stupidly easy while being too strong. But when you reach a high level of play it lack skill ceiling. Which doesn't necessarily mean they are weak or strong, just that when you reach a certain point you can't do much things (than just spamming Kappa) and it mostly depends on how your opponent can handle you rather than your own skill.

Come on, everybody knows it and everybody says it, pro or not. Are we ok now ?

 

Btw I lol'd so hard when I saw this :

Grimoir: "Actually no, it takes a lot of mindgames to win as summoner , expecially in 1v1."

Then you watch the video at 6:04 and the pro says "They should be nerfed cuz they are currently too easy to play - There are no mind games at all"

#Roasted.

[Criston]

I suppose I fall into a different group.  I could care less about PvP.  I prefer PVE and general questing.  I like the story, love discovering new areas and new things overall in a game.  While this game is rather fun at the start, once you complete the main story quests, it gets boring and really bad at getting your gear upgraded.  I will never be hard core anymore, as I am close to fifty years old.  The funny part of that is that I likely have more disposable income than many of the younger players.  I am not going to pay to win any game as to me that is cheating.  They have no guidelines where Dungeons or raids are concerned.  I am sorry, but if a tanking class is needed in a dungeon, then they need to address F8 (fate, a perfect word for this mess).  Play WoW and LFR (Looking for Raid for those that avoid the game) and you will get two tanks, five healers and the rest DPS.  Yes, if you are only general DPS, you might wait a while, BUT, you can do whatever else you want while you wait in queue.  Salvage, Craft, run dailies for rep, ect.   In this game, you can fail because you got a bad group, or better, a group of nothing but one clss even.  The game has a "tank" without the required tanking buffs and healers without the required healing buffs.  It feels like a want to be trinity to me and that is the issue.  It neither supplies a good design for endgame nor does it supply general questing once you have completed the MSL (Main Story Line).  This is why I will likely leave the game in my past once a couple of other games launch This Year that have peaked my interest.   This is short is why BnS failed for me and many of my friends.  No Real Life Friend Plays the game any more.

[Grimoir]

5 hours ago, Kyrrua said:

Here you are talking about top players which are 0.5% of the population in bns.

At this point only the rock paper scissors rule applies. Which also mean that for a top summoner player "(insert class here) are one of their easiest match-ups" too.

 

Which means aside from reaching top level of play, you are stupidly strong as a summoner even if you play with one hand.

 

That is also what the pro says above on the video. From start summoner is stupidly easy while being too strong. But when you reach a high level of play it lack skill ceiling. Which doesn't necessarily mean they are weak or strong, just that when you reach a certain point you can't do much things (than just spamming Kappa) and it mostly depends on how your opponent can handle you rather than your own skill.

Come on, everybody knows it and everybody says it, pro or not. Are we ok now ?

 

Btw I lol'd so hard when I saw this :

Grimoir: "Actually no, it takes a lot of mindgames to win as summoner , expecially in 1v1."

Then you watch the video at 6:04 and the pro says "They should be nerfed cuz they are currently too easy to play - There are no mind games at all"

#Roasted.

i am not talking about top players, im talking about people that harshly put "have a brain".

simply put:

 

- summoner only goes stealth if you are dumb enough to trigger his counter

- summoner can only get you with defense/parry pierce if you block

- summoner can only burst you down if he can pin / immobilize you (which btw pin is easy to avoid and get out of)

- You cant pin if you dont bait the oponents escapes (hence mindgames)

- Cat can be cc'ed aswel. Bees are extremely focus hungry

- knock up is easy to avoid if timed right

 

sum moner in arena is extremely weak , what makes up for that is when the person playing it isnt brain dead.

the only ones saying sum is to strong are people who in there  with no idea what they are doing, and then go "omg the class is too op" because they cant grasp the concept on how to pvp lol

[Astarae]

Quote

line of traditional Western MMORPG, with slower combat (cast, wait, cast, wait, cast), whereas BnS is constant and instant spamming (cast cast cast cast cast nonstop)

Combine that with western ping times starting @ 100ms (mine @130-160) and someone above saying that 100-200ms ping times made PvP impossible and you start to see a trend:  maybe the more successful western MMORG's are ones that don't need <100ms pings to play well, have good time, or win.   In nearly every PvP interaction I've been in -- even @ same level (55hm10), I'm lucky to get off 2-3 shots, which doesn't begin to damage an opponent.  I've seen my current char get up to 25k DPS, but that's rare, usually around half that.  But if I can't get off any shots because they (usually) get the 1st shot-- disabling my input, then I'm toast.