Souba

Stuttering, Microfreezes and lag ever since the last big update...

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Souba   

I'm at my wits end attempting to get this game to run properly after the last large update. I have a brand new computer, and the game was running smoothly with consistent FPS and no lag whatsoever until the last large expansion. Now I am experiencing microfreezes every 5 to 10 seconds, and skill lag, not to mention lag spikes when bosses die. Whats strange is I'm not actually having an FPS DROP, when it happens, FPS is still being reported as 60, even though the game is stuttering. I only drop below that in densely populated areas.

 

My system specs:
Windows 10

Core i7

NVDIA GeForce 1050Ti

8GB RAM

 

On top of it, mine is not the only computer in the household playing blade and soul, and all of them regardless of card type and model are experiencing this to some extent, even though we have messed with adjusting custom profile settings in the NVDIA control panel and followed various guides we've found on the forums that are supposedly meant to fix this issue, we have had no luck.

 

The issue is at it's absolute worst in the silverfrost area, while newer areas like Solak are seeing less stuttering for some reason. Before Solak came out, this game was running smootly and effortlessly.

 

I also want to mention that I can run graphically heavy games like Assassins Creed Origins on it's highest settings with no problems and Blade and Soul is the only thing giving me trouble (Besides Riders of Icarus giving me issues...but that old thing is just trouble in and of itself and always has been XD)

Edited by Souba

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That confirms one of my suspicions. Those freezes most likely happen because your client completely stops your game until client receives next batch of information needed from server to continue thus creating microfreezing, stutterings and whatnot. And reason why that happens is because server is so overloaded by so many players being online and other stuff at the same time in same areas that it cannot do the calculations fast enough to provide smooth gameplay due to the different way server does these calculations. Server pretty much creates a line and does the necessary calculations for each player, one player at a time. 

 

And these calculations probably also includes some of the graphic data, shadows or light or texture calculations which makes the server even more so overloaded. This part i'm not sure how true it is.

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RAID   
1 hour ago, Amarathiel said:

That confirms one of my suspicions. Those freezes most likely happen because your client completely stops your game until client receives next batch of information needed from server to continue thus creating microfreezing, stutterings and whatnot. And reason why that happens is because server is so overloaded by so many players being online and other stuff at the same time in same areas that it cannot do the calculations fast enough to provide smooth gameplay due to the different way server does these calculations. Server pretty much creates a line and does the necessary calculations for each player, one player at a time. 

 

And these calculations probably also includes some of the graphic data, shadows or light or texture calculations which makes the server even more so overloaded. This part i'm not sure how true it is.

I think you're a bit mistaken at this point.

Game data is being loaded locally, which is why you have to download all the game files. It includes textures, physics, objects etc.

 

The only data transferred between client and server are the world and user actions such as movement, opening boxes, storing items, drops from monsters/bosses etc.

 

@Souba

As long as NCSOFT doesn't provide reliable information of how or why this issue was caused with the recent patch update, we can only speculate.

But it is likely because they messed up the game data or code at some extent.

You're not the only person experiencing this problem, everyone is affected and there is no information about when or if it will be even fixed yet. Many players didn't notice this probably because the game performance wasn't stable before either. You won't notice much if you play on low-end settings for example.

 

Anyway.

From my personal point of view it looks like NCSOFT doesn't care much about this issue at all. They instead focus to push more content but they ignore fixing critical bugs.

Edited by RAID

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Souba   

@RAID Thanks for your reply. I'm actually glad to hear that I'm not the only one experiencing these issues. I was afraid it was my hardware, but it just didn't make sense that two other computers of almost equivalent specs were also doing the same thing. On top of it, we were on discord with a buddy of ours who lives in another state this morning, and we were sitting there timing the freezes. ALL of us were getting them at the same time, in totally different areas of the country, so it definitely has to be the client or the server. Or even both.

 

I wish NCSoft would get its act together. This is absolutely game breaking. The fact that they have left the game in this state for a little over a month has driven us to barely logging in long enough to collect our daily rewards and do a few things before we get sick of the freezes and go play something else.

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Maryelle   

My PC is one month old  and I am experiencing this problem. Would lodge a support request but I do not want to be told the problem is my brand new computer (it's not).

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Mine too. Especially if my party has WL... They SB.. my FPS drops dramatically and messed my burst.  My system is kinda bit old but it works

 

-I5 3330

-Windows 8 64-bit.

-8 Gb of RAM

-GTX-1050Ti

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I have been experiencing fps drops and ping issues too.. im not sure if its my internet or pc but i guess ill share here.. about 1-2weeks ago i managed to run bns with 80-100fps.. though in dungeons my fps started dropping from 80 to 20.. after that i thought my game was off so i reinstalled bns but nothing changed for the better. i died a lot of times in ns this way cause my ping also managed to reach 500ms but now it doesnt happen so often. Idk it might be just me but ive been frustrated by trying to fix my fps which i dont know why it drops so badly.. 

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Fiana   

try to use 64 bit, if you still get sturring try bns buddy

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Astarae   

bns buddy?  wazdat? 

 

FWIW, I've noticed more stuttering since the new-continent addon, but it seemed to have gotten worse since the last downtime before last.  I just assumed they turned on debugging due to the increase in crashes in the client and that's why it was slower... (?)...

 

 

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iCream   

i don't use any program, and after the update i can farm anymore in Basin!!! got some lag or something, and my bf too and some friends.

 

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Kozuki   

*Got a stutter during Yunsang's triple jump*

 

*Gratz on three stacks*

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Fiana   
5 hours ago, Astarae said:

bns buddy?  wazdat? 

 

FWIW, I've noticed more stuttering since the new-continent addon, but it seemed to have gotten worse since the last downtime before last.  I just assumed they turned on debugging due to the increase in crashes in the client and that's why it was slower... (?)...

 

 

allow me to explain this,

so when new map/area load, they're not start by download the highest setting but instead, they go 1x texture > 2x > 4x > 8x > 16x depend on your graphic setting.. just like when you browse image on browser..

bns buddy can change the game setting by download texture based on your graphic setting.. so if you set max graphic, bns will render 16x from the start... this can reduce amount of suttering/load when you enter new map/area

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Astarae   

Ahh....  I usually see 2 passes for things to render: 1 being fuzzed, the 2nd being "full-rez" (?).  Might be worth trying to see if it lowers stuttering.  How do I try changing it?

 

I'm not sure it's the same problem all the time.  In fact, I'll change my settings from 'max' to "optimize for low end PC" when I am likely to be going into multi-player battle (like on faction soul-stone battle ground south of zawii).  But even @ low graphics settings, I'll still get relatively low FPS (<30) combined with irregular, periodic 1-2 second stutters.

 

Not certain, but am almost certain they waiting on some net event (disk light is mostly off).  It's not necessarily lots of net traffic, but more like latency spikes (norm seems to be 130-160ms (?)).

 

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Fiana   

and if you went, to area where player is more than 6, you should hide their character (crtl+f) this game using unreal engine 3 that can't render many rigid body all at once or heavy physics calculation

 

normally a game engine when they using alot physic calcuation they will use VGA, but not with unreal engine... this engine have really good graphic, easy to make animation movie, etc but limit only use 1 or 2 core from CPU for physics calculation

 

so i7 and gtx1080 is wasted on this game :3

 

unreal engine is never meant to be used in mmorpg, this engine is more suited for single player rpg (that why bns have ctrl+f feature, to hide other character)

unless korean dev decided to remake entire game from scratch... this fps drop problem won't ever be solved

 

Edited by Fiana

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Astarae   

Dang!  Problem w/Ctrl-F is that the worst, regular response, is about 250ms during battles -- if you hide other players, its hard to avoid getting killed.  ;-(

 

You are saying they won't use things like CUDA for physics but put phys on CPU and at the same time limit CPU to using less than 3?

 

Isn't the game engine under development anymore?  I.e. if unreal engine was updated to use CUDA (I'd say it was fairly hard to split things like physics calcs across multi-cpu's since the intel chips have a large ctx-switch overhead for calculations compared to CUDA.

 

Thought: I wonder if any of the performance hit the basenote author is experiencing has to do with OS fixes for the latest CPU security probs -- they are admitting that a 20% hit might not be that uncommon.

 

 

Edited by Astarae
meltdown bug fix causing 20% hit, maybe related to a reinstall?

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Astarae   
On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 8:21 PM, Fiana said:

so i7 and gtx1080 is wasted on this game :3

There are several nvidia physX and cuda libs loaded into BnS's runtime image.  It is being used. 

 

Furthermore with a 1080, I'm regularly getting over 60% usage.

 

So how do you figure the GPU isn't being used for physics when it is using the physics libs and how do you figure a higher end graphics card doesn't help when a 1080 is over 60% utilized?  Seems if you had a card that was half the speed of the 1080,  the game would want to use 120% -- or more than what would be available.

 

FWIW, I see stutters and lags increasing in battle when many players are doing things.  Seems to be based on networking delays when many players positions and actions need to be relayed.

 

While such issues are solvable, they require the willingness and desire to solve them.  That seems rare these days...

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RAID   
49 minutes ago, Astarae said:

There are several nvidia physX and cuda libs loaded into BnS's runtime image.  It is being used. 

 

Furthermore with a 1080, I'm regularly getting over 60% usage.

 

So how do you figure the GPU isn't being used for physics when it is using the physics libs and how do you figure a higher end graphics card doesn't help when a 1080 is over 60% utilized?  Seems if you had a card that was half the speed of the 1080,  the game would want to use 120% -- or more than what would be available.

That's not the Nvidia PhysX Engine which is being used.

Since the game uses physics operations, it requires a Physics Processoring Unit (PPU) and the term "PhysX" is just universal and is being used to determine certain PPU chips.

The Library is required to let the CPU calculate the physics operations.

 

However, a GPGPU method operates different by redirecting the physics operations to a GPU instead to a PPU which is usually the CPU. Blade and Soul doesn't support GPGPU methods.

 

Regarding the load on your GPU:
The Game uses a very old Game-Engine with CPU-Limits. For example a newest generation graphics card usually can't utilize its full potential with games older than 4 years (Very much depended on the game-engine of course).

You could say the GPU is far too overpowered, because the CPU load rises at its maximum with the allowed core-count it can utilize for its operations. That way there won't be much room left for the GPU to operate in its full potential, since there wasn't more powerful GPUs in the past and game-engines were optimized to what they had back there. However, for the GPU this doesn't mean anything bad, it's just the game which won't benefit from a better and newer GPU.

So yes, sometimes GPUs can't utilize 100% because they reach the maximum at lower utilizations already. But why would you buy a GTX 1080, to play a game with an almost 14 year old Game-Engine?

FWIW, I see stutters and lags increasing in battle when many players are doing things.  Seems to be based on networking delays when many players positions and actions need to be relayed.

 

While such issues are solvable, they require the willingness and desire to solve them.  That seems rare these days...

Many players = more physics operations.

Doesn't have to do anything with the server or connection.

The Unreal Engine is simply not made for MMORPGs.

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Astarae   

You seem to think physics is needed to do static plotting of players.  It's not.  Go look at what Nvidia demos for their physics engines -- real-time water effects, hair-strands blown in the wind, particles like water drops, sprays, items kicked off the ground that interact w/env (not the special effects you see on running, which doesn't need physics processing).

 

Most games don't use physics effects because not everyone has the higher end NV-card that's needed.  Top-shelf games that get sold with the Nvidia label on the box do get physics effects, but you don't need physics effects to do a 1st person shooter anymore than you need physics to play chess.  Physics was usually extrapolated and simulated -- falling, in game doesn't use physics.

 

I didn't say the 60% usage was for physics calcs -- I said higher end graphics cards use 60% capacity just to render (using 0% for physics).  The GPU processors used for physics calcs are idle.  Here's GPU, and you can see for this area (zawei) usage is 30-40% of 1 cpu and out of 12 nodes on the card, only the 1 was busy (I've occasionally seen part of a 2nd node used for graphics).

 

The 60-70% GPU usage was in skypetal plains area w/grass and no active battle. 

 

Also, # people plotting isn't what slows things down -- its when they are all doing something -- like attacking a monster.

No physics needed.  At most, simple trig.

 

 

BnS-gpu_zpstomeenk4.jpg

 

Here's one of the cpu over same period -- showing up to 4 cores being used:

 

BnS-cpu_zpsza7jt0sq.jpg

 

The drop in usage is me out-of-game, writing this.

 

Was going to post other rez usage, but its uninteresting since really only cpu and gpu graphs show activity (people aren't doing much --

more sitting around in city -- so minimal network activity.

 

The physics of people isn't what is slowing things down -- its simply the updates of all the object (including players) positions (and any weaps they are shooting and distance& radius calculations -- again simple trig, no physics.

 

As an example where PhysX might be used -- particle or cloud effects -- like swarms of objects, or such.  But they don't really seem to display enough of them to need the single-instruction + multi-data calcs that GPU's often excel at.

 

ANYWAY; TLDR:

a faster GPU is of use in areas where a 1080 is >=50% usage doing graphics work, since a card with half the capacity wouldn't be able to keep up.  This is separate from using GPU's to accelerate game, which you say, is limited to the cpu... (which I'm not disputing).  But it seems the program can use 60-70% of a high-end graphics card (like a 1080) doing only the rendering and use up to 4 cores doing calculations.  That one core (the 1st one) looks about 75% busy so if they don't offload more as it gets saturated, then some areas with many objects and players could tax the cpu, BUT, I also see my "ping times" rise by 100-150ms (usually around 130-170ms base, but easily near 250 when many players are busy).

 

I'd also agree that buying a 1080 "just" for this 1 game would be rather silly.  There are other games and tasks that can use the extra horsepower.

 

It's very sad that this game is already "so old" it can't be upgraded. 

 

Same thing happened in Oblivion -- excellent game and ability for players to mod, but everyone was running up against a

limited graphics engine and a buggy/unstable run-time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Astarae
sentence clarity

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My speculation is that, it's very likely that NC has added something to the shaders and textures of the game, due to the newly installed outfit-recolor system. The changes thus results in the stuttering we are having now.

 

Before Solak, my frame rates, though not high, didn't stutter at all. However, ever since after the patch, farming at Celestial Basin has been a pain.

 

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Laura099   

I'll say this, while it doesn't account for much, there are a few reprimands to your setup.
8GB RAM.

This game eats that shit up. I believe minimum requirement is actually 4gb to even run? So 8 isn't all too impressive for it. Getting another RAM stick might help.

Another is your client.

Im unsure of whether you know, but when you launch blade and soul, on the white box that says play, you can change the settings to run on either 32 bit or 64 bit.

64 bit requires more RAM i believe, however is slightly more stable as it has more memory allocated to it.
32 bit on the other hand requires less RAM, but is highly unstable due to the lack of memory allocated.

Recent patches have required a large amount of memory, and there are speculations as to why, so that could yet be another issue.
Check these two things on your end, that's about all you can do.

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