Massive Stats-loss and no option to compensate.

[PhoenixMitra]

Greetings,

 

At this point we would like to remind everybody to stay on topic and refrain from personal attacks. Feel free to review our Code of Conduct here.

[CharlieIsBoss]

@Lata, 2 things:

 

1) I would  be in a clan with you any day.  You are a person with human feelings and a good understanding of what is right and what is wrong

 

2) give it up already in this thread,  you are stressing over a lost cause and clueless elitism.

Half my clan agrees with you and I even told them I was taking some time off because when a game causes me frustrati0on, sadness and the feeling of a big rusted knife stuck in my back, it is time for me to leave that situation. Real life provides me with enough sadness and frustration as it is.

 

The final straw that broke the camel's back for me is the fact that the game runs herky-jerky since the patch and that is unacceptable regardless of any other issues. I refuse to play any game that runs like ass. If it doesn't run better after the next patch, I take a long break until the next story also.

[Lyn Thunderfox]

1 hour ago, Lata said:

Gosh you still  play the White Knight Card for Scamsoft ?! ...

Do you realy think they gave aways this "free stuff" cause they are so nice and heartly ? ....

IF the wouldnt have ppl would STUCK in progress, no they got the MINIMUM requirements to to all the stuff we could do with better gear and stats before... JUST CAUSE YOU know all the Content ingame for months and by reading the guids that where made by others (so much about your elitism) how can you expect that new players without any knowledge are capable of doing so ?????

Even with the blue didequest ppl have to DO THE DUNGEONS to get the quests finished, and even EXACTLY cause ppl like you, they CANT cause u dont take them with you into the requiring dungeons ... srly whats wrong with you ?

 

and you still ignore the fact that I never said the game is not playable for average players and Veterans.  Instead I was asking for OPTION to COMPENSATE the loss, and the fact that we EARNED the stats already by TIME !!!! EFFORT !!! AND/OR MONEY !!!! Do you got it finaly ??? 

Or you still stuck in your little elitism world where everyone is trash and to stupid to get ther shit done ??

You Guys even dont know what it means to LEARN a dungeon from the Scratch by trial and Error to get the mechs by your OWN.

You think you are better then everyone else cause you just google for new dungeon guides ... thats so hillarious ....

Using common sense is being a white knight to NC Soft ?

Who said that they gave out stuff nicely ?

How do you think EU/NA people got most of their knowledge from ? 
Why do you think we are the people asking for 1k+ for EC and above that new players can't join ? Ironically, you are the one describing a "massive stats loss" which means a loss of damage, read the title already. If we are fine the way we are now, then our requirements would logically stay the same, for "us so called elitists" (lol)

Why do you need an option to compensate for something that is STILL working perfectly fine ?

 

A little break there : I am so tired of seeing "TIME QQ MONEY QQ INVESTMENTS QQ EFFORTS QQ" on games involving..

RNG.

Seriously stop already, please STOP, this is getting annoying to see this kind of argument in every ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ online game EVER. 

 

Now to get back to your post : when did we say we were better than everyone ?

Btw why did my question haven't been answered as well ? Just curious, feels like a lack of said answers because there isn't any actually.

[CharlieIsBoss]

^ give it up.  there are two very heartfelt philosophies in action here.

neither side is going to budge, so just give it up, we all know where everyone stands on this.

[amokk]

1 hour ago, Lata said:

Gosh you still  play the White Knight Card for Scamsoft ?! ...

Do you realy think they gave aways this "free stuff" cause they are so nice and heartly ? ....

IF the wouldnt have ppl would STUCK in progress, no they got the MINIMUM requirements to to all the stuff we could do with better gear and stats before... JUST CAUSE YOU know all the Content ingame for months and by reading the guids that where made by others (so much about your elitism) how can you expect that new players without any knowledge are capable of doing so ?????

Even with the blue didequest ppl have to DO THE DUNGEONS to get the quests finished, and even EXACTLY cause ppl like you, they CANT cause u dont take them with you into the requiring dungeons ... srly whats wrong with you ?

 

and you still ignore the fact that I never said the game is not playable for average players and Veterans.  Instead I was asking for OPTION to COMPENSATE the loss, and the fact that we EARNED the stats already by TIME !!!! EFFORT !!! AND/OR MONEY !!!! Do you got it finaly ??? 

Or you still stuck in your little elitism world where everyone is trash and to stupid to get ther shit done ??

You Guys even dont know what it means to LEARN a dungeon from the Scratch by trial and Error to get the mechs by your OWN.

You think you are better then everyone else cause you just google for new dungeon guides ... thats so hillarious ....

Listen. You won't get compensation. It won't change. This is how the game is supposed to be. 

MINIMUM requirements? They always did that. Before and now. 

 

And no, I don't know all the content beforehand. Yes, I research, because I don't have much time to play, so I won't waste a lot of my playtime. I actually learned the dungeon with my clannies and am now 2manning them. Why? Less people to ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ up and you really get to know the mechs. In the early days, I didn't run DT for 1 month because I wasn't sure about the mechs because I had quit for 3 months.

 

Please, for the love of god, stop assuming shit. You don't know anything about me. People get the minimum, so they clan clear the dungeon. That's enough. Anything else is in the category of "getting carried". Like I said before, we get system and skill updates before new content, you need to get this into your head. We were overpowered before. KR got lv55+HM Points system together (see what they did?), so they got all those "stat-decrease", but 100 AP etc.

 

This means that we were overpowered before, and now we got balanced. DID YOU GET IT ALREADY?

 

[Rea Shinwa]

I agree with Charlie, this thread has reached its limit. I think that the point that has displeased and discouraged players have been made clear enough for anyone reading our feedback at NCsoft. To go on arguing it's just adding fuel to to a couple of trolls, in my opinion.

@PhoenixMitra If some moderator would be kind enough to close the thread, I think we'd all be grateful. 

[MassiveEgo]

4 hours ago, amokk said:

And that is enough to do Mushin Tower 20 (you need 17k DPS for this), and every dungeon up to Naryu Foundry. That's enough for a starter. 

Indeed. But you forget one key aspect - you have the experience to do the dungeons for these side quests. The newbies do not posses the muscle memory from 200+ runs on each of these dungeons. If you were to erase all the knowledge for Ebondrake Citadel up, would you still need 24 hours if someone tells you "just do these quests and you'll be fine". You'll have to rely on getting carried kinda, probably dying a lot too. Maybe such a time frame won't be enough?

[amokk]

1 minute ago, MassiveEgo said:

Indeed. But you forget one key aspect - you have the experience to do the dungeons for these side quests. The newbies do not posses the muscle memory from 200+ runs on each of these dungeons.

I didn't have any better gear when I started running NF/DT/EC.

I remember that I even upgraded to baleful1 in my first DT run. 

[Katjes]

Like others already mentioned i think its time we stop this conversation since its clear we will never get to an agreement.

What i suggest ,and i hope someone from staff  will read this before the thread is closed, is for the company to start a conversation whit their player base , get their opinions on the current direction of the game and maybe relate some of those to Korean developers.

In the end i think we deserve that even if we are a secondary market. 

[Lata]

2 hours ago, CharlieIsBoss said:

@Lata, 2 things:

 

1) I would  be in a clan with you any day.  You are a person with human feelings and a good understanding of what is right and what is wrong

 

2) give it up already in this thread,  you are stressing over a lost cause and clueless elitism.

Half my clan agrees with you and I even told them I was taking some time off because when a game causes me frustrati0on, sadness and the feeling of a big rusted knife stuck in my back, it is time for me to leave that situation. Real life provides me with enough sadness and frustration as it is.

 

The final straw that broke the camel's back for me is the fact that the game runs herky-jerky since the patch and that is unacceptable regardless of any other issues. I refuse to play any game that runs like ass. If it doesn't run better after the next patch, I take a long break until the next story also.

Thanks, to hear something like that was kinda surprising so the thread wasnt without any meaning at least. Its pretty sad that most of us got used to be quite all them time, without saying anything at all.

Its like in real life where we all know that there is so much wrong but a few less ppl that live in better circiumstances and conditions just tell us you are all fine even if its not the case ...

 

1 hour ago, amokk said:

Listen. You won't get compensation. It won't change. This is how the game is supposed to be. 

MINIMUM requirements? They always did that. Before and now.

And no, I don't know all the content beforehand. Yes, I research, because I don't have much time to play, so I won't waste a lot of my playtime. I actually learned the dungeon with my clannies and am now 2manning them. Why? Less people to ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ up and you really get to know the mechs. In the early days, I didn't run DT for 1 month because I wasn't sure about the mechs because I had quit for 3 months.

No one play to get fun with minimum stuff ... especialy if just got thing taken away from you. you are still assuming that we arent able to run dungeons anymore and u just keep telling your l2p nonsens. We all paid with Time, work and money for a Lamborghini and now we get left with an e car and a speed limitation ....

 

36 minutes ago, Katjes said:

Like others already mentioned i think its time we stop this conversation since its clear we will never get to an agreement.

What i suggest ,and i hope someone from staff  will read this before the thread is closed, is for the company to start a conversation whit their player base , get their opinions on the current direction of the game and maybe relate some of those to Korean developers.

In the end i think we deserve that even if we are a secondary market. 

This wont happen anymore. there is a huge information and feedback gap between NA and EU already, and its even worse to KR.

I guess BnS will follow MxM soon, where ever u ask ppl or read the forum, alot ppl already quite the game again, and alot ppl think, that Scamsoft just trys to melk as much as they can from us until its over sooner or later.

There are a lot games releasing next year, and BnS is pretty old. I guess they merge the server again in late spring/early summer to 1 EU and 1 or 2 NA Server.

[Grimoir]

@Lata

 

You really dont grasp the obvious facts people are posting here. If you are so unhappy about this and "scamsoft" why are you still here?

If there are better games coming out why are you still playijng this "old game" ?

 

in all the time you were complaining here on forum about "stat" loss which n ever actually happened ytou would have easily farmed the gear and boosted said stats.

 

[Lyn Thunderfox]

57 minutes ago, Katjes said:

Like others already mentioned i think its time we stop this conversation since its clear we will never get to an agreement.

What i suggest ,and i hope someone from staff  will read this before the thread is closed, is for the company to start a conversation whit their player base , get their opinions on the current direction of the game and maybe relate some of those to Korean developers.

In the end i think we deserve that even if we are a secondary market. 

Yes because the complaining just keeps going on and on.

 

- The typical "this game will be milked until its death" then realising that 50 years later, the game still haven't closed. I've got through 3 games already and they're still alive. (one is a f2p from 2005 mind you)

- BT gear is "minimal stuff" apparently. (I don't wanna imagine MSP ss)

[amokk]

15 hours ago, Lata said:

No one play to get fun with minimum stuff ... especialy if just got thing taken away from you. you are still assuming that we arent able to run dungeons anymore and u just keep telling your l2p nonsens. We all paid with Time, work and money for a Lamborghini and now we get left with an e car and a speed limitation ....

 

Sure, let new players have full BT stuff within a day. Wtf - of course they get the minimum to do current content, just not endgame content, because, you know, it's ENDgame.

Again, we were overpowered before lv55. Korea got lv55 with the HM points system.

We got HM points system first. Then got balanced with lv55. What's so hard to understand? In the end, it is the same result - we just had a VERY BIG advantage over other regions (mainly KR and CN, because they got lv55+HM points) because we were overpowered before and had an easier time. 

 

You're saying that all your hard work was for nothing, which is complete and utter bullshit. If you hadn't worked your ass off for your current equip, you'd have 40% crit instead of 50%+. The scaling changed, not your stats. 

 

In your case, getting HMPoints+lv55 would have been better I guess. You got "stat-decrease" and "buff" (compensation in your eyes?) so it would have been fine. You just can't grasp that we were overpowered, that's all.

 

[Kayane]

Korea also get hongmoon levels easier then we do, they pretty much end the story at hongmoon 12.    

 

Meaning they get alot more stats then we do...

 

Both version are different, that's all there is to it.

[YunoGasaiYandere]

stat loss ?At first I thought so too...but after clearing EC, DT and foundry I changed my mind.I had tons of characters and deleted even more. Highest wasHM11 and it got deleted It wasn't mistake, I just decided I don't like class and deleted it.. Now my main is gunner. (just like in all MMO. if its possible I always play gunner/archer class or hunter in wow)  Before patch I had 850AP. Now I have 960 and guess what..those dungeons feels like joke now. Even with party where everyone is HM9-10. Got fast track achievement by competing  foundry for first time. Those dungeons feels easier than before patch. So I doubt that I'm weaker...instead of whining about lost stats...check how your DPS changed. AP isn't everything in game but bonus 80AP and like 20K changes some things. At worst case you are at same strength as you've been before patch. You didn't become weaker.

[Grimoir]

2 hours ago, Kayane said:

Korea also get hongmoon levels easier then we do, they pretty much end the story at hongmoon 12.    

 

Meaning they get alot more stats then we do...

 

Both version are different, that's all there is to it.

Actually not really, korea requiress less XP to level the HM levels, this is something KR exclusive only.

 

Also, despite how it seems, BT shields are actually pretty easy to get, you get tons of feathers from daily dash and other ways. the only constraint is the achievement, however there are plenty pug groups attempting and actually clearing up to boss 3. so the 5-6 shields are easy to get, raven king might be a bit harder but its also doable.

 

The issue isnt the difficulty, the issue is the mindset of players who claim everything is too hard while they go in completely unprepared, ignoring their gears and expect everyone to "carry" them through  "oh ill just let them carry me and i can get my xxxx".

Asside from VT there isnt really anything hard in this game if you put in a bit of time to learn and improve.

Instead on focusing on crying because after a recalculations our stats are less effective, you should focus on how you can improve them easiest and proceed progressing.

[MassiveEgo]

4 hours ago, YunoGasaiYandere said:

At worst case you are at same strength as you've been before patch. You didn't become weaker.

The damage difference before and after patch between Bale+12 and no elemental jewels and say raven 6 and elemental jewels is negligible. The "nerf" scales upwards.

[Kayane]

5 hours ago, Grimoir said:

Actually not really, korea requiress less XP to level the HM levels, this is something KR exclusive only.

 

 

So basically you proove my point that they get hongmoon level easier, thanks?

[RavTH]

you are not the one that got nerfed you know

[RAID]

@Lata @amokk

 

I've been reading through this conversation for quite a while by now and there is a few things which should be mentioned at this point.

( @amokk I pretty much agree with most of the issues you mentioned before, however I think the way how you spell certain things is quite unfriendly though. Maybe it's a good idea to engage conversations more polite, or - at least - politically)

 

The way how content is being pushed is a problem in Blade and Soul. Unlike several other MMORPGs out there, BnS is a game players have to play through the whole content and grind their base gear first in order to go to higher gear levels - which is basically a pretty good thing, since your gear isn't going to be wasted with new content-releases - however, that also means players need lots of time to actually grind what is needed to progress.

NCSOFT's first mistake was by not releasing BnS with a world-wide-launch. I understand that they want to reach the current branch of Korea's BnS-Release because of that, but since KR had their contents for much more time than we had, the content is being pushed very fast on our region and the time is short for us to grind what we need.

At the same time, the grinding-level remains the same on launch, as it was for Korea (drop-rates for example). The only difference is that we have less time to grind the "older" content.

 

Since NCSOFT's way to deliver content is very specific compared to other companies, they don't work together with the community for content releases. Of course you can give feedback, but feedback remains as feedback as long as it doesn't suite with NCSOFT's BnS its Business-Model, besides, there is no other way to reach NCSOFT other than giving feedback in the forums. Which is why we can only speculate their intentions at this point.

In order to "compensate" the short time and the pushed content, we got - in addition to the greater Quest-Rwards - (as @amokk already mentioned) the Hongmoon-Level Patch way earlier than Korea did. In order to make the grinding easier for the players before it actually launched with the Level55-Content patch. Also the drop-rates for certain legendary items have been increased over time.

 

@Lata

The new scaling of the attributes with Level55-Content therefore is something which was to be expected already. I too agree that even with the actual compensation we already got over time, is still not enough, because many players simply didn't have enough time to still get their gear from current content yet.
But this is misleading for many players, which is why many players who start with BnS don't understand this game, who then quit again after playing for a while when they finally understand that, Blade and Soul is:

- very deep grinding oriented

- very gambling-oriented

- influenced and driven by heavy micro-transactions impacting the game economy

 

So things are set as they are right now. You have to grind for what you need to enhance your attributes, you can of course also make use of the micro-transactions as this is part of the game and NCSOFT will even try to motivate you to do so by leaving the game mechanics as it is - to be very grinding.

That's not scamming though. There is a word for this actually. It's called "Business".

[Lata]

48 minutes ago, RAID said:

That's not scamming though. There is a word for this actually. It's called "Business".

While I basicly agree with 99% of your post, I cant get along with the last line.

IF a company play mindgames with there customers and exploit there addiction, it cant be called Buisness, its more scamm then legit buisness at least. Thats why we have the diskussion about RNG/gambling actualy.

We are just used to be quite no matter whats going wrong, we just accept almost anything some "smarter" ppl are telling us.

Just take the humble brag for example, there was no need for almost 99% of the player base, it was just made, to tell whale 1 that whale 2 got a new toy, so its time to invenst some mones to get the toy as well.

Everything we do and say, every ticket we send, every forums post is used in marketing research for psychological analysis around the player base. You just said it above, If Im done with all the grind and If Im done playing the PvP Prey for the whales, Im free to pay as well.

[RAID]

 

@Lata

The micro-transaction issue is another topic though, but since it's part of the game it's obviously going to be used for profit, what makes it to become business.

Business has also a special attribute which can help you to identify it as such:

Morality and ethics doesn't matter for business. Which is why you may think that you get scammed, but it doesn't matter at all.

 

We could talk about micro-transactions and how it actually affects negativity to a game, but that's not the topic here right now.

However, the NCSOFT forums isn't the right place to talk about this issue either, because they will just ignore that like all the better questions players ask them when they stream patch-previews.

If you truly want a change into that issue, then you have to talk with lawmakers. The folks in the USA already managed to bring in a potential law which will affect rng-stuff in games in the future. I very much appreciate that. Maybe the same thing will reach Europe as well soon.

1 hour ago, Lata said:

[...]

Everything we do and say, every ticket we send, every forums post is used in marketing research for psychological analysis around the player base. You just said it above, If Im done with all the grind and If Im done playing the PvP Prey for the whales, Im free to pay as well.

Well, that's another issue in Blade and Soul. Endgame is quite boring. The game is missing content to achieve challenges. PvP-Related there is only Arena for that, because everything else in PvP is compromised by micro-transactions.
PvE-Related there are only two raids, one of it has been nerfed too hard it is considered to be like a normal dungeon for experienced and geared players, the other one is still causing struggle for most parties, which is good because that way it is fun to play through it.

Blade and Soul is Free to Play. New content reaches slowly. And micro-transactions already compromised a lot of content and balance in the game. Leader boards for example has become insignificant, as it is taken by the same players every season.

Edit: actually it is good if stuff becomes harder again. It is supposed to make fun, not to make things easy cleanable. I wish they would remove the "normal-mode" from all dungeons and force mechanics everywhere like in the old 4-Man Mode times. The normal modes of the dungeons is just brain-dead running through it. That's not funny at all, and due to laziness players these days prefer the normal mode over hard mode, which is just sad, because it becomes harder to make experienced parties to try hard in hard mode.

 

Besides, everyone has his own opinion regarding that but NCSOFT simply isn't providing the same service as Blizzard Entertainment, who would care more for better games. Sad but true. *laugh*

I am playing Blade and Soul only because it is fun to play with friends. If my friends would stop playing it, then I'd definitely stop too. Nothing else is holding me in this game right now, not even the new Level 55 Content Update.

[DarkEstelle]

Zitat

vor 13 Stunden schrieb Lata:

IF a company play mindgames with there customers and exploit there addiction, it cant be called Buisness, its more scamm then legit buisness at least. Thats why we have the diskussion about RNG/gambling actualy.

 

vor 12 Stunden schrieb RAID:

 

@Lata

The micro-transaction issue is another topic though, but since it's part of the game it's obviously going to be used for profit, what makes it to become business.

Business has also a special attribute which can help you to identify it as such:

Morality and ethics doesn't matter for business. Which is why you may think that you get scammed, but it doesn't matter at all.

We could talk about micro-transactions and how it actually affects negativity to a game, but that's not the topic here right now.

 

So in a nutshell what you said RAID means exactly this:

 

 

You say that Morality and Ethics doesn't matter but can't you see yourself how wrong it is? Take the video i posted for example because that is exactly what ncsoft is doing when we speak about abusing the addiction of other people for own profit without recognising that people may have problems with it.  There is something that is called "Personal Responsibility" but yeah i can understand that this phrase doesn't matter anymore in a business because when you look at the World where Money seems to count more than a Human Life you can clearly see it does not. Still just taking this as it is without calling "STOP its enough here" is just as wrong as the so called "Business".

[Fufia]

They're just a bunch of hypocrites political companies when you lie to them it's a crime when they lie for us is just politics.

Just look at the case of net neutrality most of them love capitalism and now they do not stop crying. what's the problem babys is just pure capitalism you guys love so much. what you guys even ask support for EU people lolol

 

PS- I can not stop laughing at the hypocrisy but i hope you guys win

[Kayane]

18 hours ago, RAID said:

 

The was how content is being pushed is a problem in Blade and Soul. Unlike several other MMORPGs out there, BnS is a game players have to play through the whole content and grind their base gear first in order to go to higher gear levels - which is basically a pretty good thing, since your gear isn't going to be wasted with new content-releases - however, that also means players need lots of time to actually grind what is needed to progress.

NCSOFT's first mistake was by not releasing BnS with a world-wide-launch. I understand that they want to reach the current branch of Korea's BnS-Release because of that, but since KR had their contents for much more time than we had, the content is being pushed very fast on our region and the time is short for us to grind what we need.

At the same time, the grinding-level remains the same on launch, as it was for Korea (drop-rates for example). The only difference is that we have less time to grind the "older" content.

 

 

Bingo, you nailed it.  This is exactly the problem we are facing right now.  Thing is, it could easily be fixed with stuff like these:  

 

- Reduce the amount of token it takes to get legendaries from 200 to 100.  New players have to at least run 100 run of foundry/desolate tomb, and 200 run of sanctum to get legendary bracelet, wich is basically the entry gear for the first raid (skybreak spire).  This is completely ridiculous.  The drop rate is actually quite bad, just before the recent update, a friend and I had to do 170 sanctum run to see our first bracelet.  On top of that, we had 2, yes only 2 crit on the hand of xanos box from all those runs...  Thats just how hard it is to get old gear. 

 

- Make more ways to get hive queen wings, and make them ACCOUNT BOUND.  It takes from 20 to 80 feathers to get 1 single slice of SS, and on top of that, there is no SS with garantueed crit rolls (this is the first time its happening for end game stuff).  After the 55 update, we are all starved for crit, and thats pretty much the only way to get our stats back.  Problem is, the 1-3 feathers we are currently getting (either from weekly or from daily dash) is simply not enough, it takes months of farming for a single SS.   At the current pace the updates are being release, we just cant compete, unless youre a whale.  Plus its not like the SS are being given to us, you still have to earn the achievement for them...

 

But nope, NCsoft are just like a bunch of sheep, they just release content without thinking of the consequences or listening to their player base, and we are now facing something I havent seen in over 20 years of mmo gaming, leveling making you weaker.  Gotta say that company lost my respect.