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What if REMOVE BD spin?


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4 minutes ago, AriShadow2 said:

Look at WL.

 

Block  + parry + if you hit punich you with air launch from 16m and we know WL air gamage.

If you hit BD as WL/summ/sin in spin - you get 0 punish, you can go full PVE DPS them.

 

Parry spin is good skill.

But, is it fair that one class for hiting spin gets 2 sec stun + air combo, but WL/summ/sin 100% ignore it.

Is it fair?

I mentioned that some classes better match-ups and not against others. But question for you. Is it more fair if Parry is effective against all characters OR effective against none?

 

ALSO, those WL/summ/sin it is effective IF they LMB and you parry. AND, the other seven classes it can be not effective IF you parry and they wait 0.5 seconds then attack.

 

That is the point I'm trying to get across. Parry spin does not mean, BD = 100% lose to wl/summ/sin and 100% win against other classes. At least I don't think so.

 

EDIT: In other words, some skills work better against certain classes then others. EVEN if spin does not work against wl/summ/sin, that does not mean you have nothing left... Parry is a utility to begin with; sounds like you just rely too much on it?

Mindset: I cannot parry therefore I lose, so I should give up.

Something is wrong with character if ONE skill makes or breaks it and other skills just decorations.

Edited by Naisho
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2 minutes ago, Naisho said:

I mentioned that some classes better match-ups and not against others. But question for you. Is it more fair if Parry is effective against all characters OR effective against none?

 

ALSO, those WL/summ/sin it is effective IF they LMB and you parry. AND, the other seven classes it can be not effective IF you parry and they wait 0.5 seconds then attack.

 

That is the point I'm trying to get across. Parry spin does not mean, BD = 100% lose to wl/summ/sin and 100% win against other classes. At least I don't think so.

if you will use parry spin against WL of summ in 1v1, you will lose.

you will be basicly defenceless.

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4 minutes ago, AriShadow2 said:

if you will use parry spin against WL of summ in 1v1, you will lose.

you will be basicly defenceless.

Dual Strike (resist), Five Point Strike (resist), Guardian Tempest (resist)... defenseless eh?

Also I not going to spin randomly in front of a WL. He has no resist on and attacks, THEN I spin. He will get stunned. You have to know when to use skills. If he throws resist down and stuff... of course you lose if you don't know what you're doing...

 

Edit: Also, if spin doesn't work... there's DPS, knock up, force choke. I guess you might not of heard of em if you only spin but... give them a try.

 

And yup, it's late so I off.

Edited by Naisho
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2 minutes ago, Naisho said:

Dual Strike (resist), Five Point Strike (resist), Guardian Tempest (resist)... defenseless eh?

Also I not going to spin randomly in front of a WL. He has no resist on and attacks, THEN I spin. He will get stunned. You have to know when to use skills. If he throws resist down and stuff... of course you lose if you don't know what you're doing...

If you will set all skills on defence, how to kill?

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Just now, AriShadow2 said:

If you will set all skills on defence, how to kill?

Nono those are your 'possible' defense. Set some depending who you up against. And lightning draw can easily kill (not one shot) even with all defensive skills.

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2 minutes ago, Naisho said:

Nono those are your 'possible' defense. Set some depending who you up against. And lightning draw can easily kill (not one shot) even with all defensive skills.

Why BD must change his CC skills to resist skill and play with not full CC combo against WL.

Where WL by dafault all skill ignore parry.

 

I will not eve nask logic, why WL have 100% parry ignore and FM dont.

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19 hours ago, AriShadow2 said:

I play BD, and i read so much complain about spin.

Like ppl complain about spin in arena lobby 1v1 or 3v3.

 

So, what if REMOVE BD spin?

And replace it with WL/KFM block with 8 sec CD.

 

What do you think?

No BD would want to have their spin removed.
It´s our only means to delay and defend for cooldowns, because unlike most classes our CCs have long cooldowns.
So if we remove spin, we have to reduce the cooldowns too, but that would make BD just a worser version of BM. Using block to trigger malestorm(2s resist, worse than BM), would need tweaking then and we might end up with HM block, like BM.
Our ability to groundgame would suffer, since our 1 - kick doesn´t break guard.
Falcon would have to reduced to 9s instead of 18s, because we wouldn´t have too many openers, especially vs Melee classes with multiple options to counter/defend on KD.

In general you won´t see people complain though, it almost always people, who don´t even care about pvp, because if they did, they would actually read up on other classes and their skills. If you tab at anything else than C - drawstance(65-80% hp), unless you are a 2 tab escape class,  then it´s your fault that you lost. 2 escape classes can almost always whittle the hp of BD down.
The stealth of sin has a 50% chance to evade any skills, that do not break guard. If stealth remains 6s, that´s thereoretical 100% resist for 3seconds, unless you time and target into the right direction with your aoe(CC,attack) and actually hit sin.
BD only has 3aoe skills(C-Draw, 3 Anklebite, V - Daze pull[defense break]), of which we can´t waste C, since it´s our main dps. 3 doesn´t break guard and V can be just tabbed with flower or the real one in case the BD manages to hit and tech chase, which would leave us defenseless for 45s(CD of V-daze) to do anything against Sin, since lotus has the same CD (45s).
We are lucky enough if our spin actually breaks the stealth of sin, but it shows that the sin has no idea about his class if he just walks into our spin, while in stealth.
Without spin below 25% chance to win, if the class stayed the same without spin.

 

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10 minutes ago, Ren36 said:

No BD would want to have their spin removed.
It´s our only means to delay and defend for cooldowns, because unlike most classes our CCs have long cooldowns.
So if we remove spin, we have to reduce the cooldowns too, but that would make BD just a worser version of BM. Using block to trigger malestorm(2s resist, worse than BM), would need tweaking then and we might end up with HM block, like BM.
Our ability to groundgame would suffer, since our 1 - kick doesn´t break guard.
Falcon would have to reduced to 9s instead of 18s, because we wouldn´t have too many openers, especially vs Melee classes with multiple options to counter/defend on KD.

In general you won´t see people complain though, it almost always people, who don´t even care about pvp, because if they did, they would actually read up on other classes and their skills. If you tab at anything else than C - drawstance(65-80% hp), unless you are a 2 tab escape class,  then it´s your fault that you lost. 2 escape classes can almost always whittle the hp of BD down.
The stealth of sin has a 50% chance to evade any skills, that do not break guard. If stealth remains 6s, that´s thereoretical 100% resist for 3seconds, unless you time and target into the right direction with your aoe(CC,attack) and actually hit sin.
BD only has 3aoe skills(C-Draw, 3 Anklebite, V - Daze pull[defense break]), of which we can´t waste C, since it´s our main dps. 3 doesn´t break guard and V can be just tabbed with flower or the real one in case the BD manages to hit and tech chase, which would leave us defenseless for 45s(CD of V-daze) to do anything against Sin, since lotus has the same CD (45s).
We are lucky enough if our spin actually breaks the stealth of sin, but it shows that the sin has no idea about his class if he just walks into our spin, while in stealth.
Without spin below 25% chance to win, if the class stayed the same without spin.

 

Funny, because BD is most OP class right now.

and have biggest bumber in 1600+.

But you so much fear of some nerf to make PVP more challange and fun...

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1 hour ago, AriShadow2 said:

Funny, because BD is most OP class right now.

and have biggest bumber in 1600+.

But you so much fear of some nerf to make PVP more challange and fun...

Unlike you I actually back-up my reasoning. If you can´t provide a sufficient solution or any idea at all than just suggesting to nerf a class without thinking ahead at all, then everyone´s time is wasted on you.
If you play BD in pvp you would actually think about the possibilities and what you intend would just make BD a worse version of BM.
Your fun part is probably refering to your sin, since you can´t beat BD and are too lazy to actually learn on other classes and even your own class.

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It is about match-up.

 

For example, sin vs WL. Sin wins mostly because WL can get sin out of stealth only by using their V. If it is on cooldown or missed, then GG.

BD vs WL. WL wins mostly because all of their skills are parry penetration. Parry spin is useless. They can just nuke nuke and nuke. For people who get parry stunned by spin, it is just like you get blocked by WL and launched in air. Your mistakes, you pay the price.

 

 

I think PVP will be more dynamic, fun and challenge if they add CD to all block skills for BM, WL, KFM, etc. So, they can't spam block 24/7 without consuming any chi. Also, it will be good that they reduce stealth time so that they can't hide in stealth 24/7.

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This topic was about BD and all end up hating wl, wl at 6vs6 is middle or botton atm just wanted for sb, while fm,sin,gunner,bm can one hit kill which fm and gunner dont even need to cc the target, remember if you get cc and no escape is not the enemy fault is your fault you will die no matter which class you fighting this is the pvp mechanic not pve, show me a good geared 6vs6 fight with wl having top dmg or highest kill rate

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3 hours ago, AriShadow2 said:

Atlest with no spins PVp will be more dynamic, fun and challange.

If you want more dynamic, fun, and challenge then don't play the meta. I play BD too and I started using wind build in pvp and I can say it's much more fun and challenging than lightning. When I play my WL I use obliterate instead of Time Distortion and it's challenging/fun as well. When I lose to a lightning BM I can't even get mad at them, I'd rather lose to a Lightning BM than a brain dead hm z pull fire bm.

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8 hours ago, AriShadow2 said:

Funny, because BD is most OP class right now.

and have biggest bumber in 1600+.

But you so much fear of some nerf to make PVP more challange and fun...

Let me digest this... BD most OP 

... Who said? NCSoft? Screenshot please or it didn't happen. I know at least in competitive Korea, BD was ranked about 4th place. Most OP would be no doubt first place. Hopefully it's just your opinion; but you clearly stated it like a fact.

 

Also! If you want PVP more challenging and fun... I know the best way even if nothing was changed. Find the most difficult challenging and fun class to play (obviously doesn't need to be BD if that is not challenging and fun for you), and PVP against classes you think are OP. Right? Simple solution.

If your only perspective from view of BD and that influences all your decisions and opinion... you are just making the world revolve around your BD; clearly not to make PVP more challenging and fun.

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14 minutes ago, AriShadow2 said:

Btw, i started BD because BD was weaker then KFM in 1v1, so i wanted challange.

Now, BD is cancer ,nerf him back!

Yet I don´t see you in top5

On 28.11.2017 at 6:01 PM, AriShadow2 said:

So, what if REMOVE BD spin?

And replace it with WL/KFM block with 8 sec CD.

And tbh i don´t see you qualified to talk about BD, you clearly don´t even know about KFM, having next to no CD on Counter, ontop of the matchup vs bd being in favor of kfm.
Count me out of this discussion, you have no idea what you talk about and you don´t even care what happens with this class. Even if you own a BD, you are definately no BD.

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