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Melodia

Raid gold distribution needs to be changed

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Melodia   

Most groups, pugs or not, will distribute gold at END of the raid. Most raids take an hour or so unless you've got a party of whales.

 

  • If you dc's then you lose out on ALL your gold for this run, especially in pugs. No one will wait like 5-10min for you to get back into the game (don't forget the dozen loading screens to even get back to where you were). I dc'd on boss 3 and basically lost all my gold share because the raid was only 1-3. No one knew if I was coming back or not so they proceeded to just finish 3 without me
  • If leader dc's then everyone's screwed. No one knows if he's being a troll or not, what if it was an actual dc?
  • If leader is a scammer, or simply don't like one of the players cause he dies a lot, has a weird name, or whatever the f excuse he can come up with, he can simply not hand out gold. You're at the complete mercy of the lead when it comes to loot, simple as that, and that's retarded for an MMO where 99.99% of the players you meet are strangers.
  • What if your party keeps dying at stage X, and you simply don't have more time to play around and want to just give up? Don't tell me that's "abandoning group". Let's see you still have the patience after wasting 2 hours on a certain boss wiping like 20 times. Then you lose out on your gold share as well because once again unless you're in the same clan, there's no way a pug lead will give you your gold and let you leave

 

Before you tell me "join clan" solves everything, no it doesn't because dc's still happen, and not every clan is that friendly. Also not everyone's lucky enough to be in an active clan. Most players aren't in an active raid clan in this game. And don't tell me "pugs should also use discord". Like seriously, what pug will spend like half an hour setting up discord for all 12 strangers in the party?

 

Such a simple way to fix this, it's shocking why they didn't go with this to start with: simply make gold distribution AUTOMATIC.

 

  • Master loot is automatic and can't be changed for raids
  • The moment lead picks up loot box, everyone in the raid gets a warning pop-up saying "leader has picked up loot box. Any gold you trade to the leader, until loot distribution is finished, will be AUTOMATICALLY shared between the other 11 players in raid"
  • Anyone who bids on items and manually trade gold to leader, as said above, gets the gold AUTOMATICALLY split to the other 11 players

 

Benefits:

 

  • No more calculations on who gets how much gold at the end. You literally need a frickin spreadsheet for this due to keeping track of who bid how much on what. You can't just split total gold into 12 portions because that won't account for who actually spent money bidding
  • No more waiting for gold sharing at end, which still wastes time at end of raid even if it happens
  • The bid you make on an item is PERMANENT, forces players to think twice about bidding on something
  • Leader can't walk away with like 2k free gold if he happens to be a troll. Worst that will happen is you lose 1 member
  • Everyone feels better knowing they're GUARANTEED to get their share of the loot after this hard work
Edited by Melodia

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Shunaia   
3 hours ago, Melodia said:

Most groups, pugs or not, will distribute gold at END of the raid. Most raids take an hour or so unless you've got a party of whales.

 

  • If you dc's then you lose out on ALL your gold for this run, especially in pugs. No one will wait like 5-10min for you to get back into the game (don't forget the dozen loading screens to even get back to where you were). I dc'd on boss 3 and basically lost all my gold share because the raid was only 1-3. No one knew if I was coming back or not so they proceeded to just finish 3 without me
  • If leader dc's then everyone's screwed. No one knows if he's being a troll or not, what if it was an actual dc?
  • If leader is a scammer, or simply don't like one of the players cause he dies a lot, has a weird name, or whatever the f excuse he can come up with, he can simply not hand out gold. You're at the complete mercy of the lead when it comes to loot, simple as that, and that's retarded for an MMO where 99.99% of the players you meet are strangers.
  • What if your party keeps dying at stage X, and you simply don't have more time to play around and want to just give up? Don't tell me that's "abandoning group". Let's see you still have the patience after wasting 2 hours on a certain boss wiping like 20 times. Then you lose out on your gold share as well because once again unless you're in the same clan, there's no way a pug lead will give you your gold and let you leave

 

Before you tell me "join clan" solves everything, no it doesn't because dc's still happen, and not every clan is that friendly. Also not everyone's lucky enough to be in an active clan. Most players aren't in an active raid clan in this game. And don't tell me "pugs should also use discord". Like seriously, what pug will spend like half an hour setting up discord for all 12 strangers in the party?

 

Such a simple way to fix this, it's shocking why they didn't go with this to start with: simply make gold distribution AUTOMATIC.

 

  • Master loot is automatic and can't be changed for raids
  • The moment lead picks up loot box, everyone in the raid gets a warning pop-up saying "leader has picked up loot box. Any gold you trade to the leader, until loot distribution is finished, will be AUTOMATICALLY shared between the other 11 players in raid"
  • Anyone who bids on items and manually trade gold to leader, as said above, gets the gold AUTOMATICALLY split to the other 11 players

 

Benefits:

 

  • No more calculations on who gets how much gold at the end. You literally need a frickin spreadsheet for this due to keeping track of who bid how much on what. You can't just split total gold into 12 portions because that won't account for who actually spent money bidding
  • No more waiting for gold sharing at end, which still wastes time at end of raid even if it happens
  • The bid you make on an item is PERMANENT, forces players to think twice about bidding on something
  • Leader can't walk away with like 2k free gold if he happens to be a troll. Worst that will happen is you lose 1 member
  • Everyone feels better knowing they're GUARANTEED to get their share of the loot after this hard work

I agree with this post. My first run of BT is when I first found out that there's actually a functioning "Master Loot" mechanic in BNS, other than the failure of a wannabe system that's existed in normal dungeons, that doesn't allow for it to be abused, but at the same time, won't work properly for situations when it would be needed. The raid version of this system needs to be re-worked so it can't be abused either and made so that it doesn't subject everyone to being cheated out of their loot and/or gold, due to human errors, such as incorrect math, dishonesty, and trolling, etc..

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One thing that could help was if they took the loot distribution from Lineage 2 and implemented it here. Once the raid leader has all the gold for the auction of items he puts the amount of gold given and it is evenly distributed among everyone in the alliance party. 

 

As to pugs, if you don't wish to deal with that issue form the BT raid yourself. 

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Wataru   
5 hours ago, Melodia said:

Before you tell me "join clan" solves everything, no it doesn't because dc's still happen, and not every clan is that friendly. Also not everyone's lucky enough to be in an active clan. Most players aren't in an active raid clan in this game. And don't tell me "pugs should also use discord". Like seriously, what pug will spend like half an hour setting up discord for all 12 strangers in the party?

1. Every organized raid I've been in waited for disconnected players.

2. Find a friendly clan then? Try the smaller faction for less awful people.

3. If the clan is small it's still fine. They work with finding friends of people in the clan or work together with another clan.

4. PUGs will more often than not have a discord.

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Aztael   

Sooo my questions would be:

 

1) Is that "Trade" you talking same as a regular trade??

If yes, then does that mean the Leader cannot trade his own money to a friend so that guy has enough money. How will leader trade with himself?

 

2) If this is a separate window like a regular bid war.

Then what happens to people that disconnect (Take this ddos issue as example)? How long will be the timer to run out? Will there be a timer?

How can you handle increments.

How can you handle who is allowed to bid or not??

 

And before you ask yes my raid has some looting rules like new/old raid members (old have lower starting bid new higher). Also my raid does lock you from bidding if you have 1 accessory already but other are missing it then they get priority. So how will that system work with that?

Else yes I can see the issue people could get with pug. Personally didn't had any issue but I am pretty sure it happened before.

Edited by Aztael

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Hirukaru   

I have no issues with raids as it is.
We currently run 3 clan runs (combined with an alliance clan)
As it is clan runs items are 100% free of charge (we use a DKP system). 

Even if we would use gold, got a spreadsheet for that that is used already in multiple clans.
Gold distribution can be done within <20 min now with 12 man using a decently designed spreadsheet with good formula's. 



WIth Pugs, yep then you are just screwed. the current system can't support the auto distribution.
However it can work if they make a deposit box or a bid box for items. 
Leader selects item
Sets starting bid,
Set increments
Opens bidding
Bid/Pass 
Auto distribute over thealliance members (need new coding probably also)
However, then DKP systems will be wasted cause this would take more time for people using that. 

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caioc2   

The fact is: We dont have a proper loot distribuition system for alliance. So we cant do raids with random ppl.

 

I will never ever join a so called "PUG" raid with such system, depending on players good will. I'm not sure if this is intended to make people join a clan or if it's just a work around they found to loot inside raids.

 

My suggestion is: Make a working loot system like the 6-man dgs. Without the need of external tools or trading. Anyone in the alliance take the loot and bid and the gold will be automatically distributed over the members. All problems solved =).

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