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Enemy Silence

@ Developers: Please balance summoner

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As for PvE, I didn't see summoner being OP. KFM gets decent once you get bracelet.
As for competitive PvP, I have no idea.
As for silver rank PvP, I agree fully. KFM can't beat summoner as long as he is pressing cc and iframe buttons, in any order whatsoever.
KFM revolves around CC-ing opponent and hitting single enemy that is standing in front. Because there is no way to lock on target, summoner moving behind the cat works much like iframe.

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qqqq1   

Scummoner and gunners need some nerf scummoners are the hardest class to deal with in pvp with al the healing capabilities stealth and cc from the cat theres no way you can land a hit on the summoner, u can do damage but the scummoner will heal 36 sec true friend and they regular heal and ack to full health you cant kill cat so easily the only class that can go up against a scummoner, a bd or kfm and its not easy for them  .  and not to mention they aoe abilites even after u come out spikes u cant block. if u try to block a scummoner u can get kd grappled rooted and block cancel bns class balance system is such a mess . its so obvious to everyone but yet no one does a thing about it . gunners are out the next cancer of this game that needs a nerf, 6k on unload in arena who came up with that and pierces block who came up with that 18 m iframe who came up with that , in bg they just use pve ss and blast you before u notice them then run , this game  feeds gunner with all ss increasing main dps so the whales can abuse it and it will never change as long as they getting paid by whales abusing the class of its high dps , dont waste your time complaining , bns wil never do a thing unless its about wl  the only class they will nerf in a heart beat

Edited by qqqq1

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Maryelle   
7 hours ago, Ooneka said:

Greetings!
Please remember to debate the post, not its author. This thread will be kept open as long as the discussion stays civil. Thank you :)

But the autor is allowed to be rude? Doesn't seem very balanced to me.

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Maryelle   
1 hour ago, qqqq1 said:

Scummoner and gunners need some nerf scummoners are the hardest class to deal with in pvp with al the healing capabilities stealth and cc from the cat theres no way you can land a hit on the summoner, u can do damage but the scummoner will heal 36 sec true friend and they regular heal and ack to full health you cant kill cat so easily the only class that can go up against a scummoner, a bd or kfm and its not easy for them  .  and not to mention they aoe abilites even after u come out spikes u cant block. if u try to block a scummoner u can get kd grappled rooted and block cancel bns class balance system is such a mess . its so obvious to everyone but yet no one does a thing about it .

Let me guess, you have lost to summoners in PVP and the issue isn't that you need more practice, but that the summoner is clearly OP and should be nerfed for a THIRD time. Actually no, let's not even say third time - with the sheer amount of skill revamps they have done, summoner has suffered endless nerfs. Summoner has been on the receiving end of the most nerfs in game. If you want to learn how to beat them in PVP, educate yourself, stop demanding they be nerfed. If you know what you are doing, summoners are easy to beat.

1 hour ago, qqqq1 said:

gunners are out the next cancer of this game that needs a nerf, 6k on unload in arena who came up with that and pierces block who came up with that 18 m iframe who came up with that , in bg they just use pve ss and blast you before u notice them then run , this game  feeds gunner with all ss increasing main dps so the whales can abuse it and it will never change as long as they getting paid by whales abusing the class of its high dps ,

All new classes are unbalanced and do eventually get nerfed. Warlocks were. Soul Fighters were. Gunners will be nerfed. NCSoft seems to care more about their E-Sports  than their PVE and player quality of life, so I imagine that gunner balancing will have a fairly high priority for their PVP E-$port endgame.

1 hour ago, qqqq1 said:

dont waste your time complaining , bns wil never do a thing unless its about wl  the only class they will nerf in a heart beat

Hmm.

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2 hours ago, Maryelle said:

But the autor is allowed to be rude? Doesn't seem very balanced to me.

They said nothing about people being rude. There goes more of that "selective reading". It's obvious you aren't objective and just came to argue. THAT, is what was addressed. 

Edited by Enemy Silence

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Zagaroth   
7 hours ago, Laura099 said:

 wls one shot aerial

one shot died? lol even after nerf wl is imposible to win with 100-0 in pvp

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Maryelle   
1 hour ago, Enemy Silence said:

They said nothing about people being rude. There goes more of that "selective reading". It's obvious you aren't objective and just came to argue. THAT, is what was addressed. 

No, they didn't say anything about being rude. I am pointing out that you are allowed to skate by without censure for insinuating that summoner players are brainless, tell us that we are selectively reading or deliberately combative simply because we don't agree with  you, but we must only focus on your argument, I don't know, lest your feelings be hurt? Never mind that you have been insulting and combative, as long as we don't question why you are so upset about summoners in PVP?

On 01/11/2017 at 6:57 AM, Enemy Silence said:

Killing the cat is a huge threat to the summoner so if they at least had to turn their brain on long enough to worry about the cat, then the class would be balanced.

Oh, nevermind, you were perfectly polite. My bad.

On 01/11/2017 at 7:32 AM, Enemy Silence said:

@grimoir: Yea i didn't come here to argue or even debate your opinion. What i said is fact and has nothing to do with my level of skill (which you're assuming is bad). Your rebuttal is baseless and full of assumptions. My topic is backed by evidence, concrete and anecdotal.

We are still waiting for your evidence to support your "facts". You say you have it, so please provide it, otherwise your argument "is baseless and full of assumptions".

 

I notice that not once did you address any of my points about the summoner. In fact, most of the time your argument is basically:

  • I am right
  • Everyone else is wrong
  • I have evidence but will not provide it
  • You are all biased summoner mains
  • Don't discuss whether or not I can PVP, that's not the point

You have made no viable argument that any change needs to be made except that in other games a summoner would have a different damage output.  Your entire argument is based off of other games. Welcome to Blade and Soul, it is not other games.

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@maryelle:

1. you seem insistent on arguing instead of being objective. The evidence is in your face the moment you play or play against a summoner. The evidence is the communities reaction to summoners. The evidence is the win rate of summoners in the lower ranks. The evidence is in posts made by fellow summoners, explicitly proving my points by stating how independent the cat can be. 

 

2. As far as my snarky "turn their brain on" comment. The difference is in the context in which i used it. It wasn't aimed at anyone. Do you understand now? 

 

3. I never said people are wrong, i said they're derailing the topic by assuming i struggle against summoners. That changes the context of my post. It makes it seem as if i only want summoners to be made easier for my own selfish benefit. When in truth, my suggestion was to make summoners actually work for the perks their cat gives them by not allowing their companion to act as a PVP tank.

 

4. Finally, you seem to be hell bent on putting me in my place but you're failing miserably and just appearing to be stand off-ish for no reason. Yes i compare every game to games that came before it. Just because it's "blade and soul" doesn't mean it's perfect. What i'm doing, is showing passion for a game i want to succeed. Trust me, summoner isn't the only class that needs a another balancing look. As far as me being insulting, i implore you to find who i directly insulted.

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8 minutes ago, Enemy Silence said:

@maryelle:

1. you seem insistent on arguing instead of being objective. The evidence is in your face the moment you play or play against a summoner. The evidence is the communities reaction to summoners. The evidence is the win rate of summoners in the lower ranks. The evidence is in posts made by fellow summoners, explicitly proving my points by stating how independent the cat can be. 

 

2. As far as my snarky "turn their brain on" comment. The difference is in the context in which i used it. It wasn't aimed at anyone. Do you understand now? 

 

3. I never said people are wrong, i said they're derailing the topic by assuming i struggle against summoners. That changes the context of my post. It makes it seem as if i only want summoners to be made easier for my own selfish benefit. When in truth, my suggestion was to make summoners actually work for the perks their cat gives them by not allowing their companion to act as a PVP tank.

 

4. Finally, you seem to be hell bent on putting me in my place but you're failing miserably and just appearing to be stand off-ish for no reason. Yes i compare every game to games that came before it. Just because it's "blade and soul" doesn't mean it's perfect. What i'm doing, is showing passion for a game i want to succeed. Trust me, summoner isn't the only class that needs a another balancing look. As far as me being insulting, i implore you to find who i directly insulted.

Chill.

It is just game.

 

If some ppl react like that on your opinion, it is not reseason for you to react on their opinion.

 

Cat have low damage compare to others.

Lower burst then GS or WL.

Lower sustain DPS then BD or FM.

 

In PVP cat is weak.

Speacially for KFM, trust me, i play KFM for ~4 years.

 

Cat is just annoying troll class.

It is bad NC's design that makes ppl rage/salt about cats.

 

But, cat is just easy to play annoying troll class, find how to counter them.

 

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13 minutes ago, KzE said:

The troll still baiting ppl...

Troll? no one that has posted in this topic has come remotely close to trolling. Trolling would be stating something with the intention of getting a negative rise out of people. I'm sure you're intelligent enough to know that just like i'm intelligent enough to know the REAL reason you posted. You're hoping to persecute anyone that may want to express an opinion that's different then yours. Ultimately shutting down this topic by assuming the majority has spoken and all is well in the current balancing and there is nothing here to consider. 

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Maryelle   
44 minutes ago, Enemy Silence said:

@maryelle:

1. you seem insistent on arguing instead of being objective.

I am under the impression that you would only consider me objective if I agreed with you. I play five classes; any one of them could be considered my main.

44 minutes ago, Enemy Silence said:

The evidence is in your face the moment you play or play against a summoner.

In MSP, my summoner is consistantly out DPSed by most classes. In dungeons, it is hard for me to hold agro because I am out DPSed by most other classes. I don't care for PVP so I have no opinion or data on the matter, but considering you only want a PVE nerf, PVP has no place in this discussion (despite it being such a large portion of your original post).

44 minutes ago, Enemy Silence said:

The evidence is the communities reaction to summoners.

This argument is weak and frankly, ridiculous. The community is not without its own bias. I have already explained how the name scummoner came about so I won't rehash it in detail, but I will point out that MOST summoner hate is related to:

  • AFK summoners in PVP and F8
  • Summoner bots that used to farm terrors in Misty Woods
  • Original, un-nerfed summoners
  • The incorrect idea that summoners do nothing, contribute nothing and that is all the cat
  • That the class is easy and therefore inferior to all other classes
  • People venting because they lost to a summoner in ToI or PVP (the same way people vent about destroyers, force masters, etc etc)
44 minutes ago, Enemy Silence said:

The evidence is the win rate of summoners in the lower ranks.

But I thought this wasn't about PVP? You are contradicting yourself again. You have spent a lot of time detailing how you believe summoners are problematic in PVP, then you tell us the fix is in nerfing the cat in PVE, and then you go back to talking about summoners in PVP. Please make up your mind and be consistant.

44 minutes ago, Enemy Silence said:

The evidence is in posts made by fellow summoners, explicitly proving my points by stating how independent the cat can be. 

Okay... and? The thrall is also an independant entity. If anything, my cat won't obey me, so I miss opportunities to CC that could have benefited me.

44 minutes ago, Enemy Silence said:

2. As far as my snarky "turn their brain on" comment. The difference is in the context in which i used it. It wasn't aimed at anyone. Do you understand now? 

No, I am clearly simple minded and unable to grasp the complexities of your arguments or the fact that you insinuated that people playing summoner effectively play without engaging their brains. That is YOUR bias.

44 minutes ago, Enemy Silence said:

3. I never said people are wrong, i said they're derailing the topic by assuming i struggle against summoners. That changes the context of my post. It makes it seem as if i only want summoners to be made easier for my own selfish benefit. When in truth, my suggestion was to make summoners actually work for the perks their cat gives them by not allowing their companion to act as a PVP tank.

You derailed your own topic when you included PVP in your argument against the current summoner class set up. Countless times.

44 minutes ago, Enemy Silence said:

4. Finally, you seem to be hell bent on putting me in my place but you're failing miserably and just appearing to be stand off-ish for no reason. Yes i compare every game to games that came before it. Just because it's "blade and soul" doesn't mean it's perfect. What i'm doing, is showing passion for a game i want to succeed. Trust me, summoner isn't the only class that needs a another balancing look. As far as me being insulting, i implore you to find who i directly insulted.

You seem to be under the impression that the very fact I disagree with you is me trying to put you in your place. I have offered counter arguments that you have yet to address. I have asked for evidence that you have not adequately provided - your anecdotal evidence is merely the opinion of others. Your only other evidence relates to lower PVP rankings, but again, you said this isn't about PVP and you want a PVE nerf. Regardless of that, I know enough about PVP to say that anyone of any class can achieve a lower level ranking without much effort. It's not a summoner exclusive issue.

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14 hours ago, Displeased said:

I have a near-end game summoner and I still think they're the absolute easiest class to play right now. I wouldn't expect that to change even if I got both legendary mystic badges and played both elements. The fact of the matter is their rotations are very easy and forgiving; summoners suffer the least DPS loss when they stop attacking compared to other classes. One need only observe Flame Asura ranged tanking to understand this.

This is factually incorrect.

The Earth summoner gets turned upsidedown in its rotation with the Legendary mystic badge.

 

Before that point though, I agree that is one of the easiest classes to play, but it is also insanely behind in damage output because we are 'cursed' with having to get our Legendary Mystic Badge from Scion's Keep, whereas a lot of other classes can get them from Temple of Eluvion; combined with the fact that the 'normal' Mystic Badge options do not help with damage output at all. Whereas other classes do get normal Mystics that boost their skills.

The same goes with our fused badge options. The one that will help Summoner isn't released in NA/EU yet. So that's another thing where we are still lagging behind compared to a bunch of other classes.

 

It should come to no surprise that I completely disagree with TC. For PvE I point to this bit above and as for PvP: tons of high-ranked PvP players have been reviewed a few months ago in all regions and Summoner is always in low-mid tier. 

Edited by EvaLynBoder

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Terl   

I didnt see summs with DPS 500k+ (but gunners, sins, BD, FM, WL, kfm I saw)

 

I didnt see 1kkk+ summs in arena TOP, but I see many WL, KFM, Dest BD and other classes.

 

What nefr you talking about? Your problems at the arena - just your problems not class problems.

 

Learn to play for your class, fix your hands or legs (what you use to play - I dont know)

Edited by Terl

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No need to rebalance the Summoner. It's 2v1 target. It's all fair and good with all their fancy escape skills and pet pinch. No need to cry

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On 11/1/2017 at 9:11 AM, Bakunawa said:

I have almost a year of experience on Summoner, and this entire post is just hilarious.. Lmao.. Summoner DPS is utter trash in PvE at the moment if you play Earth, Wind is half decent, but if you think Summoner is broken now, just wait until Aransu + full VT gear is a common thing, you'll *cricketing* *cricket* bricks when you see their DPS then. Best of luck to you, LMAO.

Their job is to stun and pinch down the target but they usually failed to do it. What kind of handicap skills that we should allow summoner to have more to assist the party ?

 

Let me tell you all. The tanker deserved most of the credit while the rest of you just stand out there and playing with your macro on. 

Edited by WudangMaster

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1 hour ago, WudangMaster said:

No need to rebalance the Summoner. It's 2v1 target. It's all fair and good with all their fancy escape skills and pet pinch. No need to cry

Hahaha.

 

We have literally 2 escape skills, one of which extremely situational (switch position with cat, which does nothing if the cat is also on you already).

Though some may say Beckon is also an escape...but that relies on the cat not being cc'd, has a 60 sec cooldown and will take away one of our iframes instead.

Edited by EvaLynBoder

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11 hours ago, EvaLynBoder said:

This is factually incorrect.

The Earth summoner gets turned upsidedown in its rotation with the Legendary mystic badge.

 

Before that point though, I agree that is one of the easiest classes to play, but it is also insanely behind in damage output because we are 'cursed' with having to get our Legendary Mystic Badge from Scion's Keep, whereas a lot of other classes can get them from Temple of Eluvion; combined with the fact that the 'normal' Mystic Badge options do not help with damage output at all. Whereas other classes do get normal Mystics that boost their skills.

The same goes with our fused badge options. The one that will help Summoner isn't released in NA/EU yet. So that's another thing where we are still lagging behind compared to a bunch of other classes.

 

It should come to no surprise that I completely disagree with TC. For PvE I point to this bit above and as for PvP: tons of high-ranked PvP players have been reviewed a few months ago in all regions and Summoner is always in low-mid tier. 

Well given that I've obviously never used that badge before, I'll take your word for it and assume earth rotation does get substantially harder.

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AnokuHel   

Dear OP I have some bad news to tell you the makers of this game do NOT take "balance" advise from forams unlike Meny other PvP inclusive MMO's they do not CARE about the gripes of the low ranks in arena they have no need to care. They DO go by data from the TOP END ranking players in the E-sports section of PvP there for you have 2 options, 1) Quit the game and find a game where the game makers "balance" classes by how meny whine about it in pvp. 2) LEARN to play your class and how to PvP on it keep in mind you are NOT a god of PvP FAR FAR from it. This is coming from a PvE only player even I know that much about the PvP system in this game.

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Grimoir   
10 hours ago, AnokuHel said:

Dear OP I have some bad news to tell you the makers of this game do NOT take "balance" advise from forams unlike Meny other PvP inclusive MMO's they do not CARE about the gripes of the low ranks in arena they have no need to care. They DO go by data from the TOP END ranking players in the E-sports section of PvP there for you have 2 options, 1) Quit the game and find a game where the game makers "balance" classes by how meny whine about it in pvp. 2) LEARN to play your class and how to PvP on it keep in mind you are NOT a god of PvP FAR FAR from it. This is coming from a PvE only player even I know that much about the PvP system in this game.

Actually they do balance the game however this is mostly based on how the koreans play. That being said balance is done on KR playstyle level, they will not look at some NA players who simply need to get gud at playing their own class before they start to even remotely complain about others.

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Trix   

Excerpt from Enemy Silence post

@maryelle:

1. you seem insistent on arguing instead of being objective. The evidence is in your face the moment you play or play against a summoner. The evidence is the communities reaction to summoners. The evidence is the win rate of summoners in the lower ranks. The evidence is in posts made by fellow summoners, explicitly proving my points by stating how independent the cat can be. 

 

 

The EVIDENCE as you keep stating shows that summoner is only viable in low/mid tier pvp, you only need to look at the leaderboards and esport results to see that.

 

By the time people get over the initial OMG what do i do there's two of them, and then learn how to play thier class properly, summoner is one of the easiest classes to defeat. The only people who have issues with summoner are ones who haven't studied and practiced how to easily counter a summoner.

 

The whole scummoner trend was ridiculous back then and it's even more redundant now.

 

Also as stated the cat is buggy as hell and high geared summoners are being completely outdps'd by lower level/lower geared classes.

Edited by Trix

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On 10/31/2017 at 11:35 PM, Enemy Silence said:

Since a lot of you are ASSUMING i lose to summoners or am bad at pvp, i'm going to ASSUME none of you understood or comprehended my topic. ONCE AGAIN, the cat's health is way too high and they do way too much damage to be so versatile. Both things need adjusting but i'd like to see more responses from people who DON'T MAIN summoner. I'll also assume people who disagree are summoners whether they'll admit it or not. See how assuming works? 

HAHAHAHAH Cat health is too high.. Have you run BT and VT with your cat? Yea... cat eats the stack and it's a goodbye kitty quickly. Cat is supposed to be your pal, your meat shield because otherwise, you are a sitting duck for everything. Without the cat, you can't even give yourself any invincibility frame (true friend, and E)

Cat does lot of damage? Let me go ask my cat... and his answer was "Meow, no" His damage is only high if you spec'ed him for Clawnado (execute it while having nettled active) or Kappow (which you can't even use if no one restrain the enemy)

Summoner and cat duo is overwhelming but it's very easy to break that bond if you know how to separate them or disable the cat.

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FrozenB   

You can kill the cat easily in openWorld or battleground when you have decent gear. However, in arena, they are problematic ones. Disable or knock the cat unconscious? They an recall their cat and wake them up instantly (I don't know when they can do this, but back in the old times, even they recall it, the cat would remain unconscious.) 

 

Also, some people said that summoner is sitting duck when their cat is dead. It is wrong. If they know how to use counter stealth and root effectively, they can troll the enemy forever. Also, losing the cat only means losing couple CCs and the massive heal only and can't counter enemy's air combo. Well...which other class can do something like this?

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MukiTwo   

I've mained Summoner for 11 months, almost a year here soon, & there's no way on earth that you can expect me to take this topic seriously. Not to mention that a few months ago, you could STUN LOCK AND 100-0 their cats in literal seconds, with nothing being able to stop it, before skill changes. People complained then, and still complain now, its sad.

Edited by MukiTwo

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