Ujarac

Fix the Dead Arena pvp

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Ujarac   

So at this point I'll just say arena pvp is pretty dead and totally unbalanced and not fun to most people. the thing that makes it really bad is theirs so many damn classes that can easily cheese for an arena win, meanwhile some other classes have to play 100% perfect just to actually win. like honestly theirs to many cheese methods classes have to win easy arena matches and it honestly just makes people not want to play arena if their just gonna jump and do pvp only to get their butt kicked by an OP cheese class. like its gotten so bad I see 6v6 more active then arena and 6v6 is gear dependent, so I guess people rather take their chances with whales in 6v6 or broken cheese 1v1 with no way to win. Atleast with 6v6 it gives us a higher chance at winning. but with all that I'll just say they need to really find a way to make arena pvp more fun and enjoyable for people before the completely lose their so called cool pvp aspect of the game they wanted long ago.  

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ARC-1276   

It'll be fixed when they:

 

1. Nerf BD

2. Nerf WL

3. Remove Wallbanging

4. Make it less punishing when you lose and more rewarding when you win.

5. Give Gunslinger more block breakers and nerf its damage.

6. Make it so you can't use BB in 1v1.

7. Remove sin's bombard.

Edited by ARC-1276
Added on some more conditions.

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3 hours ago, ARC-1276 said:

4. Make it less punishing when you lose and more rewarding when you win.

 

You used to get better rewards when you lost, but there were a ton of bots abusing it. That's why now you get almost nothing when you lose. Increasing the losing rewards again might bring back the arena bots.

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6 hours ago, ARC-1276 said:

It'll be fixed when they:

 

1. Nerf BD

2. Nerf WL

3. Remove Wallbanging

4. Make it less punishing when you lose and more rewarding when you win.

5. Give Gunslinger more block breakers and nerf its damage.

6. Make it so you can't use BB in 1v1.

7. Remove sin's bombard.

I would say also remove sin evade chance completly

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Sendir   

I believe the reason why arena as been droping so low is for these reasons primarily: 

 1: The unbalance of some classes as mention, blade cancer and warlock (as for sin, I have no clue what this bombardment + poison breath meta is but I will talk about it in a bit)

 2: The rewards, usually we go to arena mostly for 2 things, the soulstones and the achivement stuff for the HM skills, both of which as far as I know can be obtained through other means making the whole arena thing more of an enjoyment thing choice with a small bonus then something to go to and farm a specific item that is best gained there. (since we can farm those very same items somewhere else at a quicker pace)

 3: Shitty servers, we all saw this one coming, a fast game such as BnS I'm amazed and at the same time disappointed they don't make an effort to provide the ping needed to play it properly and makes arena a bit unfair in that aspect, we can be a 200 ms player fighting VS a 90 ms player, of course we are at a massive disadvantage and will probably lose.

 4: It become a BURST MATCH, when BnS first released on EU, I remember you needed either a giant CC chain to kill someone or multiple small chains to get it done, now you need a few CC and it's done (Remember when I said I was going to talk about bombardment + poison breath, well this is where it fits) obvious examples is warlock managing to kill you or get you dangerously low on ONE air combo, where is the fun in that? (not talking about getting massive damage in the air although that is pretty unfun on it's own, talking about the absurd damage we do making fights just a matter of who grabs who first without really giving a change for a comeback like before). 

 Another example is the poison breath + crit buff + poison breath + lighting strike putting a few more skills in between, it's not fun at all.

 The skill not only came from outsmarting your opponent so you had your CDs and not him but managing to pull of huge combos without messing up, now the combos needed became so small and easy to pull off I personally don't find it fun,

 

14 hours ago, Phytolacca said:

I would say also remove sin evade chance completly

I'm not a fan of RNG just as much as the next guy but EVERY class as a skill or skills that are guarantee to hit just as long as you aim/time properly like blade cancer V or gunner SS

 

 

20 hours ago, ARC-1276 said:

6. Make it so you can't use BB in 1v1.

 Why didn't you said anything about awakening? >.> especially since SB resets a bunch of CDs from warlock while BB only resets 1 and the main difference is... BB makes the sin lose one escape while awaken gives damage/reset/RESET ON ESCAPE SKILL (not to mention defensive CDs). I would much quicker say "Make SB not reset so many skills" rather then say "Remove BB from 1v1"

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On 10/15/2017 at 5:53 AM, Sendir said:

I'm not a fan of RNG just as much as the next guy but EVERY class as a skill or skills that are guarantee to hit just as long as you aim/time properly like blade cancer V or gunner SS

 

 

 

Nope, you are wrong, they should remove it, its already hard enough to hit them with their insane mobility and counters

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ARC-1276   
On 10/15/2017 at 5:53 AM, Sendir said:

I believe the reason why arena as been droping so low is for these reasons primarily: 

 1: The unbalance of some classes as mention, blade cancer and warlock (as for sin, I have no clue what this bombardment + poison breath meta is but I will talk about it in a bit)

 2: The rewards, usually we go to arena mostly for 2 things, the soulstones and the achivement stuff for the HM skills, both of which as far as I know can be obtained through other means making the whole arena thing more of an enjoyment thing choice with a small bonus then something to go to and farm a specific item that is best gained there. (since we can farm those very same items somewhere else at a quicker pace)

 3: Shitty servers, we all saw this one coming, a fast game such as BnS I'm amazed and at the same time disappointed they don't make an effort to provide the ping needed to play it properly and makes arena a bit unfair in that aspect, we can be a 200 ms player fighting VS a 90 ms player, of course we are at a massive disadvantage and will probably lose.

 4: It become a BURST MATCH, when BnS first released on EU, I remember you needed either a giant CC chain to kill someone or multiple small chains to get it done, now you need a few CC and it's done (Remember when I said I was going to talk about bombardment + poison breath, well this is where it fits) obvious examples is warlock managing to kill you or get you dangerously low on ONE air combo, where is the fun in that? (not talking about getting massive damage in the air although that is pretty unfun on it's own, talking about the absurd damage we do making fights just a matter of who grabs who first without really giving a change for a comeback like before). 

 Another example is the poison breath + crit buff + poison breath + lighting strike putting a few more skills in between, it's not fun at all.

 The skill not only came from outsmarting your opponent so you had your CDs and not him but managing to pull of huge combos without messing up, now the combos needed became so small and easy to pull off I personally don't find it fun,

 

I'm not a fan of RNG just as much as the next guy but EVERY class as a skill or skills that are guarantee to hit just as long as you aim/time properly like blade cancer V or gunner SS

 

 

 Why didn't you said anything about awakening? >.> especially since SB resets a bunch of CDs from warlock while BB only resets 1 and the main difference is... BB makes the sin lose one escape while awaken gives damage/reset/RESET ON ESCAPE SKILL (not to mention defensive CDs). I would much quicker say "Make SB not reset so many skills" rather then say "Remove BB from 1v1"

they already removed the skill reset on WL's SB.

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ARC-1276   
On 10/14/2017 at 12:07 PM, Chara Dreemurr said:

You used to get better rewards when you lost, but there were a ton of bots abusing it. That's why now you get almost nothing when you lose. Increasing the losing rewards again might bring back the arena bots.

Honestly, if they did, I'd finally get Diamond ranking. So I say go right ahead even though its not exactly good for the game.

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Sendir   
On 10/16/2017 at 11:18 PM, Phytolacca said:

Nope, you are wrong, they should remove it, its already hard enough to hit them with their insane mobility and counters

Haven't they nerfed it once already? and if ya wanna talk about counters (which they have 2, one for normal situations and one for ground JUST like other classes have counters) then can we talk with other classes constant blocking/counter/Iframing first? :) and as I said, there are skills that guarantee a hit just as long as ya aim/time it BUT if ya miss all of those skills and waste Iframes(btw a quick tip: Save Iframes/defensive skills for when ya feel their stealth is about to run out, most sins wait for that before they do anything) then truth be told, ya deserve to be in a situation where they can DPS you from stealth since you willy nilly wasted precious CDs, but I personally prefer to watch a sin combo someone and not PVE them but it's not the first class that does that

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Sendir   
On 10/16/2017 at 11:42 PM, ARC-1276 said:

they already removed the skill reset on WL's SB.

They did? sweet! :D thanks mate o/

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FrozenB   
On 10/14/2017 at 8:51 AM, ARC-1276 said:

It'll be fixed when they:

 

1. Nerf BD

2. Nerf WL

3. Remove Wallbanging

4. Make it less punishing when you lose and more rewarding when you win.

5. Give Gunslinger more block breakers and nerf its damage.

6. Make it so you can't use BB in 1v1.

7. Remove sin's bombard.

1. Nerf BD.

2. Nerf WL.

3. Nerf Des.

4. Nerf FM.

5. Nerf Gunner.

6. Nerf SF.

7. Nerf summoner.

8. Nerf BM.

9. Nerf KFM.

10. Nerf Sin.

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FrozenB   
On 10/14/2017 at 1:12 AM, Ujarac said:

So at this point I'll just say arena pvp is pretty dead and totally unbalanced and not fun to most people. the thing that makes it really bad is theirs so many damn classes that can easily cheese for an arena win, meanwhile some other classes have to play 100% perfect just to actually win. like honestly theirs to many cheese methods classes have to win easy arena matches and it honestly just makes people not want to play arena if their just gonna jump and do pvp only to get their butt kicked by an OP cheese class. like its gotten so bad I see 6v6 more active then arena and 6v6 is gear dependent, so I guess people rather take their chances with whales in 6v6 or broken cheese 1v1 with no way to win. Atleast with 6v6 it gives us a higher chance at winning. but with all that I'll just say they need to really find a way to make arena pvp more fun and enjoyable for people before the completely lose their so called cool pvp aspect of the game they wanted long ago.  

Basically it is pointless to pvp in arena. Why?

1) It is because you get almost nothing if you lose a match. 

2) After you get all the HM skills, what will you get? Soulstones? You can farm them in many different places. It is only more efficient to farm soulstone if you are in gold rank (higher zean bean rewards and more soulstones per chest.) Also, soulstones don't worth more golds in market nowadays. It is better to farm moonstones.

3) Arena is for people with good ping (below 100ms). If you have over 200ms, basically you can skip arena once and for all.

 

6v6 is more popular because of moonstones chests there. Also, even players with bad pvp skills or slightly high ping, it can be compensated with their top end gears (die slower and kill faster). For example, a BM with top end gear. He can 1 hit KO any person with HM Z pull stun in 6v6 (if the enemy doesn't use tab escape quick enough within 0.5 seconds after the pull). Compared to arena, the same BM has to do HM Z and then maybe tech chase or even longer prolonged fight to kill the enemy.

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AnokuHel   

Easy way to fix arena pvp every one has 100 hp, everyone as one skill and its the same and dose 1 hp dmg, every one has the same stats, and done sit back and watch as some still complane about OP classes.

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N3ro   
On 10/18/2017 at 9:41 PM, FrozenB said:

Basically it is pointless to pvp in arena. Why?

1) It is because you get almost nothing if you lose a match. 

2) After you get all the HM skills, what will you get? Soulstones? You can farm them in many different places. It is only more efficient to farm soulstone if you are in gold rank (higher zean bean rewards and more soulstones per chest.) Also, soulstones don't worth more golds in market nowadays. It is better to farm moonstones.

3) Arena is for people with good ping (below 100ms). If you have over 200ms, basically you can skip arena once and for all.

6v6 is more popular because of moonstones chests there. Also, even players with bad pvp skills or slightly high ping, it can be compensated with their top end gears (die slower and kill faster). For example, a BM with top end gear. He can 1 hit KO any person with HM Z pull stun in 6v6 (if the enemy doesn't use tab escape quick enough within 0.5 seconds after the pull). Compared to arena, the same BM has to do HM Z and then maybe tech chase or even longer prolonged fight to kill the enemy.

All great points from a 100% pve perspective.

 

Rewards are fine as a pvp player. You get to sell the soulstones to get hm skills on alts faster (since buying the pve skill books sometimes is faster than grinding zen beans). You can also buy some weapon for the skin as long as its not too expensive, if it is... just wait until it is outdated gear (like seraph now) and you can get it too. And people who actually enjoy pve and pvp at least get something for playing pvp every week to upgrade gear.

 

Also you get hm coins from season rewards you can buy skins with. A quite significant amount if you can make it into high rankings (made 9.5k hm coins last season from just 3v3 and 1v1 season rewards). Admiddetly the coins you get are far from amazing in low ranks, but i dont think they want to give a lot of coins to all of the player base, because that would mean pvp players would have almost no reason to EVER spend money on the game at all.

 

Its hard to really suggest good rewards for low ranks other than maybe the tokens you use to buy hm skills (character bound... so it does not get a thing that people deliberately derank all of their chars to make hm skills on some new alt). Though, really if you cannot make it high you should practice more. Thats what arena is about.

 

They should just try to attract people to pvp with class balance reworks, bug fixes (yeah i know they are somewhat incompitent or just unwilling regarding this, witch is sad, because otherwise the combat system is pretty amazing) and tournaments.

 

That hm z example though... lul Wow they actually have to be able to play the game to win if gear cant carry them... unheard of. Equalised pvp is like one of the main selling points of b&s arena.

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ARC-1276   

I just love this ridiculous, board-line retarded attitude whenever someone wants to make reasonable nerfs to classes that are currently dominate or trying to make certain match ups less about class carry and more about personal skill, some guy is all like "Oh nerf all the classes" or "git gud". But it also seems that these players are always the ones who use cheese tactics, play dirty (bug exploiting), or they play these broken classes themselves.

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Valiant   
6 hours ago, ARC-1276 said:

I just love this ridiculous, board-line retarded attitude whenever someone wants to make reasonable nerfs to classes that are currently dominate or trying to make certain match ups less about class carry and more about personal skill, some guy is all like "Oh nerf all the classes" or "git gud". But it also seems that these players are always the ones who use cheese tactics, play dirty (bug exploiting), or they play these broken classes themselves.

Haha true!

Like how FM never want to admit that their class is "op" because that stupid thing called "wallbang" as they can spam it and harsh your hp down without just a bugging wallbang while in same time impact any melee classes with chill and put nice gap 
Like I saw 10% of FM admit that impact and wallbang is op but yet the rest will never admit it op stuff, cause they winning by stalling using impact and wallbang only.

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ARC-1276   
On 10/21/2017 at 6:22 PM, Valiant said:

Haha true!

Like how FM never want to admit that their class is "op" because that stupid thing called "wallbang" as they can spam it and harsh your hp down without just a bugging wallbang while in same time impact any melee classes with chill and put nice gap 
Like I saw 10% of FM admit that impact and wallbang is op but yet the rest will never admit it op stuff, cause they winning by stalling using impact and wallbang only.

It's a stupid technique used by shitters to tilt people. Ya its unfair as all Hell. But there's plenty of other things in the game that are vastly more OP than that. 1 second resist after use with Q and E. The amount of iframes a BD gets. The damage Unload does. All it takes to fix wall banging is to remove knockback from impact and boom, FM nerfed.

 

Other classes like KFM and BD are fundementally broken and in dire need of a nerf considering how borderline easy it is for them to win.

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Shuchin   

I think the only thing that makes arena more attractive for players to become pure PvP players are tournaments and other community arena events, preferably with eye candy. ;)

 

The other thing is for PvXers, or maybe mostly for 6v6ers, arena is attractive as a sandbox to get better technically and offers quite nice rewards in the form of PvP tokens (galaxy fragments, beluga orbs etc) that then feed back to help you in 6v6. So reinforcing that by reducing bean cost for 6v6 relevant items would be nice.

 

I think there's not much sense to try to make arena attractive to pure PvE players, as they will find the experience frustrating no matter what you do.

Edited by Shuchin

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MCOnyx   

Arena will be more active when PvPers gain some self respect and stop abusing silver ladder with countless alts and deranking. Have you tried to do 3vs3 lately, during peak hours? Or 1vs1 for that matter. Poor casuals enter and get obliterated by countless premades (all silver) and alts lvl 45 etc.  Obviously plats or high gold, cause they play like pro's and ppl don't have any idea wtf just happened. Because they're playing against people far above their ladder. Combine that with macro abusers and you get a recipe for a failure

 

And when you try to do that DC arena and get that like 1h in a row, you kinda give up on arena altogether. I heard that story countless times from clan and friends, so people just stay away as far as they can from arena.

 

I understand as high rank player you get bored, cause no matches or wait 10 min for one, but that can easily be fixed with decaying system.

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N3ro   
18 hours ago, MCOnyx said:

Arena will be more active when PvPers gain some self respect and stop abusing silver ladder with countless alts and deranking. Have you tried to do 3vs3 lately, during peak hours? Or 1vs1 for that matter. Poor casuals enter and get obliterated by countless premades (all silver) and alts lvl 45 etc.  Obviously plats or high gold, cause they play like pro's and ppl don't have any idea wtf just happened. Because they're playing against people far above their ladder. Combine that with macro abusers and you get a recipe for a failure

 

And when you try to do that DC arena and get that like 1h in a row, you kinda give up on arena altogether. I heard that story countless times from clan and friends, so people just stay away as far as they can from arena.

 

I understand as high rank player you get bored, cause no matches or wait 10 min for one, but that can easily be fixed with decaying system.

"Obliterated by countless premades" is more like if only a single player from actual high ranks ques with/in bronces-silvers he single-handedly 1v3´s every team, pretty much. The only thing that´s REALLY wrong is that when you que with people much lower ranked then you are you´re not gonna loose much rating if you loose against an actual high ranked (entire) team and you´re gonna gain plenty of rating when winning against any team. Freelo and it´s not exactly fun for the high ranked team either.

About the alts... well you can´t take that away. And i feel like it´s mostly stupid to complain about people playing on alts. But they could make it so your alts don´t start in bronze if you didn´t play them, but had a char on the same account in plat at the end of the season. Decaying system probably won´t help much or will be more annoying than useful. If you´re gonna be loosing rating once a week if you didn´t play it´s useless. If you loose rating every day or two it´s gonna be annoying af for a lot of players. Btw, that would also mean all the alts people don´t play get deranked without any effort. So... making your issue maybe far worse as players won´t have to do anything to get their chars low ranked.

 

As far as macros go, they should just make it possible to assign a dedicated key for ss, on your mouse or whatever keyboard button you have left. That would almost complete make macros irrelevant. Honestly, all the other macros don´t matter a lot. Even anicancel macros. What is it gonna do? Pretty much all high ranked players can do it without macros and doing it with macros makes chi management super awkward at times i would imagine. For entire combos you´ll completely handicap yourself. I would need so many situational macros and memorize way more things (buttons and cooldowns) than what im doing now. Like, sure kfm 2rf macro is probably a thing. But how can i tell if they macro or not, it´s perfectly doable without, hence why i don´t feel there is much point of accusing them of macroing. It might be obvious when they are super garbage, but do perfect anicancel 100% of the time, but then i don´t care either, because get better beat them up, they are bad. And even then they could just be godlike pve heroes who learned perfect 2rf for mushin-like content, right? For the actual good players how do i even tell if they are macroing or not? I don´t, right?

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Therapyx   

6x6 is just more rewarded. 1x1 is useless for your gear. That's why it has so low population. I low arena, but NOT gear depended oneshot pve(p), but when I came back to the game I had to do a lot of stuff and still now when I have good gear, i have to grind f.... pve all the time after work. 

 If they did the rewards at least like in 6x6, I would pvped at least 50% of my game time, because its fun and challenging, compared to pve(p) where ur skill = "how many hours did u spend for f... grinding). 

 

 I hope NCwest/SOFT will hear us someday. Otherwise I ll left this game again, it doesnt make fun to grind all my free time, even with donating, just to having this gear with no time for another game content

btw even Guild Wars 2 did a nice reward balance between PvE, sPvP and WvW... NCsoft's headquarter muss learn something from them

Edited by Therapyx

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