BD and WL, should it be nerfed?

[ARC-1276]

Blade Dancer and Warlock are two classes that have seemed to dominate PVP recently. In almost every 3s comp, BD and WL are both present, with either a sin or a SF in the mix. In 1s, WL are an extremely intimidating opponent to deal with in general. Their ability to keep the gap between themselves and their opponent while doing gunslinger like damage is almost impossible to deal with. That and their long airborne times during Time Distort has no counter play other than preemptively preparing a defense skill for when they use it. However, Warlock doesn't scare me as much as the second class mentioned here for one reason: 1 minute and 30 second cool down time. Meaning if the thrall is called out and he doesn't use the Time Distort, the WL is going to have to spend at least a minute of the 3 minute match without it, which will mean they can only use it on the second summon. So you know it's coming before it happens.

 

So while WLs insane damage is the scariest thing in the game, and the tie breaker system is always in favor of them (because they deal so much damage its impossible to out DPS them, especially if you have healing), at least you know its coming, and at least you know you can avoid the damage altogether. WL is a fairly predictable class, but however, it punishes the others so hard!

 

Blade Dancers, on the other hand, have a different problem: They're unpredictable, they're extremely forgiving, they deal tons of damage in a single burst that you can't even defend against nor prepare for, and they're immune to most CCs for almost the entire match. So, you think a stalling FM, or a perma stealth sin is bad? Wait until you see this. So, a Blade Dancer who's specced all three of their iframes have 5 seconds resist (plus full focus recovery and 15% HP regen) from one skill, then they get a 1 to 2 second resist with the next (I don't know the actual numbers), and then they get another 4 to 5 seconds of resist with the next iframe (the triple slash resist thing). After those, they get a 6 second long phantom grip with greater quality than a FM's (the constant damage they give out, the focus drain, the defense breaker, and the instant combo). Then they can instantly air combo you and get another 6 seconds of stalling merely by using said air combo. Once you fall down, BAM! They hit you with lightning draw. So, given that lightning draw usually does between 7k to 8k damage on hit, and the air combo's infamous 10~15% damage, that's somewhere around 35% HP gone in the span of 6 seconds. Assuming that in the time the BD was immune to any damage it landed a successful five point strike, that's another 10~15% HP gone, leaving in total at max: 50% of your HP gone and the first minute hasn't even passed. Now the game has only 3 real classes with a grip specific escape (BM, KFM, and other BDs), other classes rely on opportunities that never seem to appear (and I know people will want to add on Summoner and WL, even though BD is technically blocking while using phantom grip and thus the reason why they're not on that list). 

 

Now WL is straight forward, the damage is OP and needs to be toned down. Maybe making it so there's a .5 second CD on one of the skills, who knows? But Blade Dancer, their broken factor comes from their kit. They have a response to every class in the game: a FM hits them with Tornado, use the 5 sec resist (or even maelstorm since the proc will most likely still be up), Des grabs them, escape with Flock of Blades and backstep if on Emberstomp, BM uses HM Z, tab and immediately use a resist, WL tries to use time distort, grab them in the 1 second between the skill use and the effect going off.

 

I'll leave it up to the community what to do with what I've collected here and what my analysis leads to. Go ahead and up vote this post if you think either one of these classes deserve a nerf.

[Asuramon]

4 hours ago, ARC-1276 said:

BM uses HM Z, tab and immediately use a resist

What an ideal world that is. Hopefully you understand that playing against a broken skill like that has no counterplay. HM Z doesn't go on cooldown if starting animation is interrupted, unlike every other skill in the game. Meaning IT HAS TO LAND unless you perfectly and pre-emptively iframe. It's the most broken skill in the game after Leech. And then you're stuck without an escape against a class like BM with near infinite amount of other CCs

[ARC-1276]

7 hours ago, Asuramon said:

What an ideal world that is. Hopefully you understand that playing against a broken skill like that has no counterplay. HM Z doesn't go on cooldown if starting animation is interrupted, unlike every other skill in the game. Meaning IT HAS TO LAND unless you perfectly and pre-emptively iframe. It's the most broken skill in the game after Leech. And then you're stuck without an escape against a class like BM with near infinite amount of other CCs

Ya, now that I think about it, including that in the post a stupid idea in retrospect. After all, everyone knows how broke Soaring Falcon is, and how it can basically carry a BM into gold if they wanted to.

[Chara Dreemurr]

12 hours ago, ARC-1276 said:

and at least you know you can avoid the damage altogether.

Sure buddy, it's not like the warlock can paralyze you and launch you in the air right after...I mean, it's not like you can't use your escape before you get airlaunched even though you're paralyzed, right? :^)

 

12 hours ago, ARC-1276 said:

Blade Dancers, on the other hand, have a different problem: They're unpredictable

"Blade Dancer is so easy to play but it's unpredictable at the same time!!" - What? Everyone complains on how easy it's to play BD but now you say it's unpredictable. Something is either easy to play and predictable or harder to play and unpredictable.

 

12 hours ago, ARC-1276 said:

they're extremely forgiving

Yeah, a class with one escape is *extremely* forgiving. Nice.

 

12 hours ago, ARC-1276 said:

they deal tons of damage in a single burst that you can't even defend against nor prepare for

Sure you can prepare for it m8! Let me tell you a secret: that burst you're talking about is on a 36s CD. I wonder what else is on the SAME EXACT CD...I think it's something every class has at least one of...something that makes you escape CCs hmm...

 

12 hours ago, ARC-1276 said:

and they're immune to most CCs for almost the entire match

Just KD, use a pull CC or phantom grip.

 

13 hours ago, ARC-1276 said:

So, you think a stalling FM, or a perma stealth sin is bad? Wait until you see this. So, a Blade Dancer who's specced all three of their iframes have 5 seconds resist (plus full focus recovery and 15% HP regen) from one skill, then they get a 1 to 2 second resist with the next (I don't know the actual numbers), and then they get another 4 to 5 seconds of resist with the next iframe (the triple slash resist thing).

*Not a 5 second resist. It's a 5s/5 hits resist. It doesn't last more than 1-2s vs ranged classes. It's also not full focus recovery, it's 60% focus recovery.
*The other 4-5s resist you're talking about is actually 3 iframes cast one after the other so there is a gap between resists.
*You give two other classes with 2 escapes as a counterexample, really?
Also why is this a problem? The class with the most pierced counter in the game (parry) and a single escape has iframes (with long CDs) to make up for this.
 

 

13 hours ago, ARC-1276 said:

After those, they get a 6 second long phantom grip with greater quality than a FM's (the constant damage they give out, the focus drain, the defense breaker, and the instant combo).

Yes, because it's not like FM grips you -> freezes you -> lets you drop -> impact cancer combo. Man, the BD phantom grip sure is better, right? :^)
Oh, and you know that FM HM phantom grip's skills disable you defense as well, right?
 

 

13 hours ago, ARC-1276 said:

Then they can instantly air combo you and get another 6 seconds of stalling merely by using said air combo.

"I get aircomboed by a melee and lose 10% hp why is life so unfair :<" the post. If you think any melee air combo is bad, then I wonder what you have to say about ranged classes air combos (SF included).
 

 

13 hours ago, ARC-1276 said:

Once you fall down, BAM! They hit you with lightning draw. So, given that lightning draw usually does between 7k to 8k damage on hit, and the air combo's infamous 10~15% damage, that's somewhere around 35% HP gone in the span of 6 seconds.

Yes, you lose 35% HP and the BD has to use a few high-medium CD skills + lightning draw (36s CD). Tell me of a class that can't do the same thing by using high-medium CD skills.
 

 

13 hours ago, ARC-1276 said:

Assuming that in the time the BD was immune to any damage it landed a successful five point strike, that's another 10~15% HP gone, leaving in total at max: 50% of your HP gone and the first minute hasn't even passed.

Five point strike - 45s CD. Also, if the BD is always using it for an air launch, it's using it wrong. Also, why are you measuring HP loss in time and not in skills used by the opponent?

 

13 hours ago, ARC-1276 said:

Now the game has only 3 real classes with a grip specific escape (BM, KFM, and other BDs), other classes rely on opportunities that never seem to appear (and I know people will want to add on Summoner and WL, even though BD is technically blocking while using phantom grip and thus the reason why they're not on that list). 

BM and BD grab escapes don't even give them an iframe, so if you resist the knockback you can tech-chase their escape. Not a strong escape.
Also, the frontal block of phantom grip doesn't work with summoners a lot of the time.

 

13 hours ago, ARC-1276 said:

Now WL is straight forward, the damage is OP and needs to be toned down. Maybe making it so there's a .5 second CD on one of the skills, who knows?

Either remove the leech paralyze or make it into a regular CC so you can use your escape and they don't get a guaranteed air launch. They could also make leech have a pre-hit animation so you can at least see it coming and have a chance to dodge it.
 

13 hours ago, ARC-1276 said:

But Blade Dancer, their broken factor comes from their kit. They have a response to every class in the game: a FM hits them with Tornado, use the 5 sec resist (or even maelstorm since the proc will most likely still be up)

*Use 5s resist, FM hits you 5 times and it's gone in 1s, rip.
*Use maelstrom because the proc is still up -> implying a good FM will hit the tornado at the beginning of your spin.
The best you can do against it is try to run away or CC the FM to stall.
 

13 hours ago, ARC-1276 said:

Des grabs them, escape with Flock of Blades and backstep if on Emberstomp

No, let me tell you how this goes.
Des grabs you -> immediate KD (before you can use anything) -> defense pierce stun
It can also happen another way if you're in emberstomp: Des grabs you in emberstomp -> you use flock of blades to escape grab -> destroyer tech chases your escape because it doesn't give you an iframe.
 

 

13 hours ago, ARC-1276 said:

BM uses HM Z, tab and immediately use a resist

Haha yeah sure. Again, let me tell you what happens if you do that:
you tab out of HM Z -> you notice that you can't spin for another 3-4s -> you use your 5s/5 hit Z iframe -> BM uses 5 point strike to get rid of it fast -> get rekt by BM V combo
You need to Q/E and SS away with the Z resist on you, which puts you at a severe disadvantage later on.
 

13 hours ago, ARC-1276 said:

WL tries to use time distort, grab them in the 1 second between the skill use and the effect going off

Implying any good WL won't use TD only when you're CCed or when they have their bastion resist or sanctum on the ground.
 

 

13 hours ago, ARC-1276 said:

I'll leave it up to the community what to do with what I've collected here and what my analysis leads to. Go ahead and up vote this post if you think either one of these classes deserve a nerf

1) Maybe what you said would have been a good idea if the community was more knowledgeable about pvp. There are so few people that actually know what they're doing that they simply get ignored by the majority whenever they say something that's true.
2) WL clearly needs to be nerfed but I'm not voting your post because you have no idea what you're talking about when you talk about BD.

Also, have you watched the world championship? Did you see any BD do anything even remotely OP? Remember, we're talking about pro players here, so if BD is so OP then surely they would be able to abuse it the most. I haven't seen any 3v3 team want a BD when there simply are better classes for 3v3 atm.
You and all the crybabies who keep complaining about how OP BD is need to face a simple fact: BD is mid tier at the moment.

[ARC-1276]

5 hours ago, Chara Dreemurr said:

Sure buddy, it's not like the warlock can paralyze you and launch you in the air right after...I mean, it's not like you can't use your escape before you get airlaunched even though you're paralyzed, right? :^)

 

"Blade Dancer is so easy to play but it's unpredictable at the same time!!" - What? Everyone complains on how easy it's to play BD but now you say it's unpredictable. Something is either easy to play and predictable or harder to play and unpredictable.

 

Yeah, a class with one escape is *extremely* forgiving. Nice.

 

Sure you can prepare for it m8! Let me tell you a secret: that burst you're talking about is on a 36s CD. I wonder what else is on the SAME EXACT CD...I think it's something every class has at least one of...something that makes you escape CCs hmm...

 

Just KD, use a pull CC or phantom grip.

 

*Not a 5 second resist. It's a 5s/5 hits resist. It doesn't last more than 1-2s vs ranged classes. It's also not full focus recovery, it's 60% focus recovery.
*The other 4-5s resist you're talking about is actually 3 iframes cast one after the other so there is a gap between resists.
*You give two other classes with 2 escapes as a counterexample, really?
Also why is this a problem? The class with the most pierced counter in the game (parry) and a single escape has iframes (with long CDs) to make up for this.
 

 

Yes, because it's not like FM grips you -> freezes you -> lets you drop -> impact cancer combo. Man, the BD phantom grip sure is better, right? :^)
Oh, and you know that FM HM phantom grip's skills disable you defense as well, right?
 

 

"I get aircomboed by a melee and lose 10% hp why is life so unfair :<" the post. If you think any melee air combo is bad, then I wonder what you have to say about ranged classes air combos (SF included).
 

 

Yes, you lose 35% HP and the BD has to use a few high-medium CD skills + lightning draw (36s CD). Tell me of a class that can't do the same thing by using high-medium CD skills.
 

 

Five point strike - 45s CD. Also, if the BD is always using it for an air launch, it's using it wrong. Also, why are you measuring HP loss in time and not in skills used by the opponent?

 

BM and BD grab escapes don't even give them an iframe, so if you resist the knockback you can tech-chase their escape. Not a strong escape.
Also, the frontal block of phantom grip doesn't work with summoners a lot of the time.

 

Either remove the leech paralyze or make it into a regular CC so you can use your escape and they don't get a guaranteed air launch. They could also make leech have a pre-hit animation so you can at least see it coming and have a chance to dodge it.
 

*Use 5s resist, FM hits you 5 times and it's gone in 1s, rip.
*Use maelstrom because the proc is still up -> implying a good FM will hit the tornado at the beginning of your spin.
The best you can do against it is try to run away or CC the FM to stall.
 

No, let me tell you how this goes.
Des grabs you -> immediate KD (before you can use anything) -> defense pierce stun
It can also happen another way if you're in emberstomp: Des grabs you in emberstomp -> you use flock of blades to escape grab -> destroyer tech chases your escape because it doesn't give you an iframe.
 

 

Haha yeah sure. Again, let me tell you what happens if you do that:
you tab out of HM Z -> you notice that you can't spin for another 3-4s -> you use your 5s/5 hit Z iframe -> BM uses 5 point strike to get rid of it fast -> get rekt by BM V combo
You need to Q/E and SS away with the Z resist on you, which puts you at a severe disadvantage later on.
 

Implying any good WL won't use TD only when you're CCed or when they have their bastion resist or sanctum on the ground.
 

 

1) Maybe what you said would have been a good idea if the community was more knowledgeable about pvp. There are so few people that actually know what they're doing that they simply get ignored by the majority whenever they say something that's true.
2) WL clearly needs to be nerfed but I'm not voting your post because you have no idea what you're talking about when you talk about BD.

Also, have you watched the world championship? Did you see any BD do anything even remotely OP? Remember, we're talking about pro players here, so if BD is so OP then surely they would be able to abuse it the most. I haven't seen any 3v3 team want a BD when there simply are better classes for 3v3 atm.
You and all the crybabies who keep complaining about how OP BD is need to face a simple fact: BD is mid tier at the moment.

Okay, there's a lot here to go through.

 

Since you bring up good and accurate points in this, those won't be the parts I address as you're right and nothing more needs to be said on the matter. So I'll address where you're wrong. And funny enough, its every time you're referring to FM.

 

No good FM in their right mind is stupid enough to spam into a BD. One spin is all it takes to turn their hardest match up into an impossible match up. So that 5 hit 5 sec resist is a 5 sec resist because the second we start spamming into it, spin and dead. And if you're hit by Frost Tornado, your response is simple: hit F. Many times I've hit a BD with Frost Tornado and they were still spinning, the next second the spin disable effect is removed because maelstorm was still procced. Which honestly is simply BS. You also seem to underestimate your ability to escape grip. Let me put it lightly, it's broken. I'd honestly rather deal with KFM's self freeze from grip than a BD's flock of blades. Mostly because, flock of blades is a CC effect of the worst kind: a knockback. That gives the BD plenty of room to back step and run away to the other side of the arena and wait for CDs to come off.

 

Also, using your tab in response to Lighting Draw isn't always the best idea. As more often than not, a BD will just iframe it or back away at the last second. Also Lightning Draw hits before you have time to react and hit tab. Meaning that you HAVE TO EAT THE DAMAGE. Even if you're below 7k HP and your tab is up, it means nothing if the BD hits that dreaded 4 button. 

[Chara Dreemurr]

13 minutes ago, ARC-1276 said:

No good FM in their right mind is stupid enough to spam into a BD. One spin is all it takes to turn their hardest match up into an impossible match up. So that 5 hit 5 sec resist is a 5 sec resist because the second we start spamming into it, spin and dead.

After hitting frost tornado, if the BD uses Z, just spam into the iframe. Also, you can't get stunned from parry if you use Frost Sheath, while the orb wasn't triggered. If the BD hits you and you get frozen, then just wait it out. Why is BD one of the hardest matchups for FM anyway? Frost burst and phantom grip (throw into the wall before BD can use anything) are easy ways to get around spin, even if we forget about frost tornado. Not to mention that chill disables the only two stuns BD has, along with 5 point strike.

 

23 minutes ago, ARC-1276 said:

And if you're hit by Frost Tornado, your response is simple: hit F. Many times I've hit a BD with Frost Tornado and they were still spinning, the next second the spin disable effect is removed because maelstorm was still procced. Which honestly is simply BS.

That is RNG, pretty much FM using Frost Tornado exactly when BD starts spinning. Even if they do manage to use it after Frost Tornado, they won't have any way to remove chill for 36s.
 

27 minutes ago, ARC-1276 said:

You also seem to underestimate your ability to escape grip. Let me put it lightly, it's broken. I'd honestly rather deal with KFM's self freeze from grip than a BD's flock of blades. Mostly because, flock of blades is a CC effect of the worst kind: a knockback. That gives the BD plenty of room to back step and run away to the other side of the arena and wait for CDs to come off.

 

That is just not true. Imagine your tab escape still doing the daze, but it doesn't give you an iframe for the duration of the animation. That's pretty much BD flock of blades.
For instance, let's say another BD grabs you, uses SS and uses Drain instantly and you use flock of blades instantly as well. You escape the grab, but you still get the Drain daze and defense disable.
Or let's see something FMs can do. Grab the BD -> SS to freeze it -> BD uses flock of blades, but the FM resists the KB because of the SS iframe -> use impact while the BD's animation is still going.
I said it's not a strong escape because it's so easy to tech chase if you resist the KB, since it doesn't give the user any resists and it has an animation lock.

 

45 minutes ago, ARC-1276 said:

Also, using your tab in response to Lighting Draw isn't always the best idea. As more often than not, a BD will just iframe it or back away at the last second.

I meant using your tab escape (or any other escape) if the BD uses lightning draw + a stun. The point is to break their combo. Next time they have their Lightning Draw available, you won't be bursted 100-0 because you'll have your escape as well.

 

46 minutes ago, ARC-1276 said:

Also Lightning Draw hits before you have time to react and hit tab. Meaning that you HAVE TO EAT THE DAMAGE. Even if you're below 7k HP and your tab is up, it means nothing if the BD hits that dreaded 4 button. 

If you're talking about the aerial -> lightning draw then yes, you can't use anything to avoid the lightning draw. There are other classes who can do similar things tho, like BM and SIN. Pretty much every ranged class can do a ton of damage in an aerial as well. So with these classes too, even if you have your tab escape, you won't be able to use it before you take a lot of unavoidable damage.

If you were talking about the phantom grip -> lightning draw -> stun (the BD just lets phantom grip expire and immediately uses lightning draw), then again, there's nothing you can do about it without your escape. But BD is not the only class that can do this with their grab. FM can also grab and freeze you, then let the grab end and use impact for a guaranteed stun. If you don't have your escape, there's nothing you can do to counter that, just like there's nothing you can do to counter the BD version. Destroyer can do something similar with grab as well.
 

Imo we should be allowed to use our escapes during enemy aerials, since it's pure BS how much unavoidable damage you can take.

[AriShadow2]

On 07.10.2017 at 6:06 AM, ARC-1276 said:

Blade Dancer and Warlock are two classes that have seemed to dominate PVP recently. In almost every 3s comp, BD and WL are both present, with either a sin or a SF in the mix. In 1s, WL are an extremely intimidating opponent to deal with in general. Their ability to keep the gap between themselves and their opponent while doing gunslinger like damage is almost impossible to deal with. That and their long airborne times during Time Distort has no counter play other than preemptively preparing a defense skill for when they use it. However, Warlock doesn't scare me as much as the second class mentioned here for one reason: 1 minute and 30 second cool down time. Meaning if the thrall is called out and he doesn't use the Time Distort, the WL is going to have to spend at least a minute of the 3 minute match without it, which will mean they can only use it on the second summon. So you know it's coming before it happens.

 

So while WLs insane damage is the scariest thing in the game, and the tie breaker system is always in favor of them (because they deal so much damage its impossible to out DPS them, especially if you have healing), at least you know its coming, and at least you know you can avoid the damage altogether. WL is a fairly predictable class, but however, it punishes the others so hard!

 

Blade Dancers, on the other hand, have a different problem: They're unpredictable, they're extremely forgiving, they deal tons of damage in a single burst that you can't even defend against nor prepare for, and they're immune to most CCs for almost the entire match. So, you think a stalling FM, or a perma stealth sin is bad? Wait until you see this. So, a Blade Dancer who's specced all three of their iframes have 5 seconds resist (plus full focus recovery and 15% HP regen) from one skill, then they get a 1 to 2 second resist with the next (I don't know the actual numbers), and then they get another 4 to 5 seconds of resist with the next iframe (the triple slash resist thing). After those, they get a 6 second long phantom grip with greater quality than a FM's (the constant damage they give out, the focus drain, the defense breaker, and the instant combo). Then they can instantly air combo you and get another 6 seconds of stalling merely by using said air combo. Once you fall down, BAM! They hit you with lightning draw. So, given that lightning draw usually does between 7k to 8k damage on hit, and the air combo's infamous 10~15% damage, that's somewhere around 35% HP gone in the span of 6 seconds. Assuming that in the time the BD was immune to any damage it landed a successful five point strike, that's another 10~15% HP gone, leaving in total at max: 50% of your HP gone and the first minute hasn't even passed. Now the game has only 3 real classes with a grip specific escape (BM, KFM, and other BDs), other classes rely on opportunities that never seem to appear (and I know people will want to add on Summoner and WL, even though BD is technically blocking while using phantom grip and thus the reason why they're not on that list). 

 

Now WL is straight forward, the damage is OP and needs to be toned down. Maybe making it so there's a .5 second CD on one of the skills, who knows? But Blade Dancer, their broken factor comes from their kit. They have a response to every class in the game: a FM hits them with Tornado, use the 5 sec resist (or even maelstorm since the proc will most likely still be up), Des grabs them, escape with Flock of Blades and backstep if on Emberstomp, BM uses HM Z, tab and immediately use a resist, WL tries to use time distort, grab them in the 1 second between the skill use and the effect going off.

 

I'll leave it up to the community what to do with what I've collected here and what my analysis leads to. Go ahead and up vote this post if you think either one of these classes deserve a nerf.

I agree.

BD is most OP and easy class.

How BD should be nerfed:

1)Remove deflect spin - too OP.

2)Z heal reduce from 15% to 5% - like all have 5% heal on 5 hit resist.

3)Remove RMB boost after 2 - too OP burts with air.

4)Make sword throw blockble - too OP opener.

5)Make grab work only on CC target - like des, KFm or summ.

6)Remove 80% ki drain after grab - just broken.

7)Change HM block from 30 sec to 1 min - CD must be like blue buff.

8)Reduce number of iframe Z uses from 3 to 1 - too much resists.

9)Lightning draw -50% damage - 7k 100% crit too OP.

 

kappa.

[Yabadabadu]

On 07.10.2017 at 8:04 PM, Chara Dreemurr said:

Sure buddy, it's not like the warlock can paralyze you and launch you in the air right after...I mean, it's not like you can't use your escape before you get airlaunched even though you're paralyzed, right? :^)

 

"Blade Dancer is so easy to play but it's unpredictable at the same time!!" - What? Everyone complains on how easy it's to play BD but now you say it's unpredictable. Something is either easy to play and predictable or harder to play and unpredictable.

 

Yeah, a class with one escape is *extremely* forgiving. Nice.

 

Sure you can prepare for it m8! Let me tell you a secret: that burst you're talking about is on a 36s CD. I wonder what else is on the SAME EXACT CD...I think it's something every class has at least one of...something that makes you escape CCs hmm...

 

Just KD, use a pull CC or phantom grip.

 

*Not a 5 second resist. It's a 5s/5 hits resist. It doesn't last more than 1-2s vs ranged classes. It's also not full focus recovery, it's 60% focus recovery.
*The other 4-5s resist you're talking about is actually 3 iframes cast one after the other so there is a gap between resists.
*You give two other classes with 2 escapes as a counterexample, really?
Also why is this a problem? The class with the most pierced counter in the game (parry) and a single escape has iframes (with long CDs) to make up for this.
 

 

Yes, because it's not like FM grips you -> freezes you -> lets you drop -> impact cancer combo. Man, the BD phantom grip sure is better, right? :^)
Oh, and you know that FM HM phantom grip's skills disable you defense as well, right?
 

 

"I get aircomboed by a melee and lose 10% hp why is life so unfair :<" the post. If you think any melee air combo is bad, then I wonder what you have to say about ranged classes air combos (SF included).
 

 

Yes, you lose 35% HP and the BD has to use a few high-medium CD skills + lightning draw (36s CD). Tell me of a class that can't do the same thing by using high-medium CD skills.
 

 

Five point strike - 45s CD. Also, if the BD is always using it for an air launch, it's using it wrong. Also, why are you measuring HP loss in time and not in skills used by the opponent?

 

BM and BD grab escapes don't even give them an iframe, so if you resist the knockback you can tech-chase their escape. Not a strong escape.
Also, the frontal block of phantom grip doesn't work with summoners a lot of the time.

 

Either remove the leech paralyze or make it into a regular CC so you can use your escape and they don't get a guaranteed air launch. They could also make leech have a pre-hit animation so you can at least see it coming and have a chance to dodge it.
 

*Use 5s resist, FM hits you 5 times and it's gone in 1s, rip.
*Use maelstrom because the proc is still up -> implying a good FM will hit the tornado at the beginning of your spin.
The best you can do against it is try to run away or CC the FM to stall.
 

No, let me tell you how this goes.
Des grabs you -> immediate KD (before you can use anything) -> defense pierce stun
It can also happen another way if you're in emberstomp: Des grabs you in emberstomp -> you use flock of blades to escape grab -> destroyer tech chases your escape because it doesn't give you an iframe.
 

 

Haha yeah sure. Again, let me tell you what happens if you do that:
you tab out of HM Z -> you notice that you can't spin for another 3-4s -> you use your 5s/5 hit Z iframe -> BM uses 5 point strike to get rid of it fast -> get rekt by BM V combo
You need to Q/E and SS away with the Z resist on you, which puts you at a severe disadvantage later on.
 

Implying any good WL won't use TD only when you're CCed or when they have their bastion resist or sanctum on the ground.
 

 

1) Maybe what you said would have been a good idea if the community was more knowledgeable about pvp. There are so few people that actually know what they're doing that they simply get ignored by the majority whenever they say something that's true.
2) WL clearly needs to be nerfed but I'm not voting your post because you have no idea what you're talking about when you talk about BD.

Also, have you watched the world championship? Did you see any BD do anything even remotely OP? Remember, we're talking about pro players here, so if BD is so OP then surely they would be able to abuse it the most. I haven't seen any 3v3 team want a BD when there simply are better classes for 3v3 atm.
You and all the crybabies who keep complaining about how OP BD is need to face a simple fact: BD is mid tier at the moment.

Are you a BD? That'd explain a lot of things.

[Chara Dreemurr]

7 hours ago, Yabadabadu said:

Are you a BD? That'd explain a lot of things.

Want to address anything I've said in particular?

[FrozenB]

On 10/8/2017 at 1:31 PM, AriShadow2 said:

I agree.

BD is most OP and easy class.

How BD should be nerfed:

1)Remove deflect spin - too OP.

2)Z heal reduce from 15% to 5% - like all have 5% heal on 5 hit resist.

3)Remove RMB boost after 2 - too OP burts with air.

4)Make sword throw blockble - too OP opener.

5)Make grab work only on CC target - like des, KFm or summ.

6)Remove 80% ki drain after grab - just broken.

7)Change HM block from 30 sec to 1 min - CD must be like blue buff.

8)Reduce number of iframe Z uses from 3 to 1 - too much resists.

9)Lightning draw -50% damage - 7k 100% crit too OP.

 

kappa.

1) I don't mind they remove parry stun from BD. However, they need to nerf the block skills from BM, KFM, WL first. This block skills cover 270 degree front angle and has 0 CD time with 0 ki consumption. Compared to BD parry stun spin (costs 2 ki consumption per spin), these block skills are OP. Also, they need to remove parry stun spin from destroyer too.

 

2) If it gives 5% heal per each resists for HM Z, I think this is considered a boost instead of nerf. Right now, it is just a solid 15% heal for HM Z or 10% heal for normal Z. It doesn't gives additional heal for each resists like BM's flock of blade.

 

3) Not sure what you mean here. You mean sunder skills or RMB stun in drawing stance? Compared to lighting drawing stance, this doesn't hurt as much. 

 

4) Sword throw is unblockable, but can be resisted? You can't SS or iframe it at start? It is the most predictable skill for BD in the beginning of fight. Also, it has a long animation that majority of pro players can avoid it by iframe or ss it.

 

5) Yes, it is fine for that. However, FM's grab needs to be made the same as well.

 

6) 80% ki drain is OP? What about destroyer ki drain? Basically you have to use tab escape if you don't want ki drain.

 

7) This is the most ridiculous nerf. 2-3 seconds iframe skill need to have 1min CD? Sorry to say this, but are you retarded? How about make BM's HM block to only last for 3 seconds with 3 resists with also 1min CD. I also don't mind they make all the party iframe to be 1 min CD.

 

8) iframe from Z is always 5 resists. I have no idea what you are talking about here. Too much resists? Just lmb CD for 5 times and it is gone.

 

9) lighting draw stance is the burst skill for BD. Basically, as soon as you see BD use it, then you can tab escape. if you used tab escape before BD's going into this stance. Then, it is your problem. For tag match, once you used tab escape, of course you tag someone else into the match. Only noobs will continue to fight without tab escapes when the other teams still have tons of interference chances.

[Chara Dreemurr]

@FrozenB That was 100% sarcasm tho lul